Except you guys keep forgetting that one of the two political parties has gone bat shit crazy and has taken 44% of the American population with it. Sure it is great that a large number of Republicans and Democrats can agree on boilerplate ideals that do not mean anything in the real world. You act as if this were 1978 and we were talking reasonable people running on both sides of the aisle. We aren't and spouting this nonsense doesn't do anything to help fix the problems we have.
I have always agreed with you that Democrats are lousy at laying out what they really believe, and they cede that realm to the Republicans. The Democrats have been staying very close to center left for the last two years, but they seem to get no credit at all for NOT bending to the radical side of their party.
The Republicans on the other hand, have gone all in on supporting the radical side of their party. The saddest thing of all, is that center Democrats are willing to speak out against things that do not make sense, but there are maybe three Republicans willing to speak out against the election lies, and none are willing to speak out against the BS policies that other Republicans put on the table.
Try again. I do talk to them. They're practically the only neighbors and fellow school kids parents I have.
Of course, while they bring up politics all the time, I do avoid the subject with them. Part of how I was raised (politics and religion). I also don't figure my chances of a productive conversation with someone who can't go 20 minutes in a non-political conversation without bashing Biden, California, and or libtards are very good. Of course other times it isn't so much political as racial, with N***** this and Jew that.... also out of left field.
Makes me appreciate those who can just have a friendship around our kids being on the same team without injecting their politics into it. They are the minority though.
"Sure it is great that a large number of Republicans and Democrats can agree on boilerplate ideals that do not mean anything in the real world."
Exactly! You know where I would've put my surprised exclamation point? After the Republican number here: тАЬThere are underlying differences between men and women, but discrimination on the basis of gender is wrong.тАЭ 91% (!!) of Republicans and 90% of Democrats agreed."
There is absolutely no way that a party that honestly believes that gender discrimination is wrong would be refusing to bail out the day care disaster, denying a gender gap in pay, and most prominently, taking away the privacy rights of women in select American states.
The reason that Republicans oppose all the anti-women programs you list is fundamental to Republican minimalist-state ideology. Establishment Republicans since Reagan have always believed that state has no role in solving those kinds of problems; they should be solved by markets in the private sector--or by relying on friends, family, and churches. We're not talking MAGA here, we're talking what has been mainstream GOP--Romney, McConnell, Ryan, etc.--privatizing Social Security is their Ayn Randian wet dream.
Establishment Republicans at their core have only two policy objectives--to lower taxes and minimize regulation. Everything else is window dressing. Republicans say they're for family values, and then support Neoliberal/Libertarian policies that make holding a family together as hard as possible. This is why Democrats have always been really the pro-family party. They actually support policies that might actually help families. But no, this is the slippery slope to communism, and we can't have that. Better we all suffer.
And then because maybe <5% of those families might be abusing the system, Republican rhetoric plays to sentiments that it's better we penalize the 95% by making sure that doesn't happen. Oh, the moral jeopardy!
Agree except that I don't think they have any policy objectives anymore except to take all and give none. Everything else is transactional for Republicans. States rights until they want a federal law and vice versa.
Too bad you can't hear me cheering your post, Jack Whelan.
This is why I switched to Democrat from Independent. (My caveat, and it's a big one, is that I disagree with most official Democratic positions on who-not what- is developing in a pregnant woman's womb. I think it's a human being with rights.)
My Republican governor in Arizona ran (and won twice) on the promise to lower taxes every year. He kept that promise. Would it have made a whole lot more sense to figure out what taxpayers wanted to fund and then carefully figure out how to do that, even if it meant raising taxes, even a little bit? Yes, but carefully analyzing problems and coming up with prudent solutions to solve the problems is not something that gets people elected, at least not in my state.
It comes down to your values, IMO. The values of Republicans emphasize supporting business, especially big business. If they think at all about how their policies will affect the individual or their family, they say something vague like "trickle down economics" , or "All Americans have equal opportunities; they need to work hard and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps."
My devout Catholic mother, also a devout Republican, who truly lived and taught her 8 kids the teachings of Jesus, once said to me that care for the poor and needy should not be funded by the government, it should be taken care of, as you say, "by relying on friends, family, and churches." I was dumbfounded. As a citizen and part of my government, is it not my responsibility to take thought for the poor and sick who won't have a home, food, and medical care if their friends, family, and churches can't, or won't provide it? Since I don't have the power to direct "government" money the way I want to, isn't it therefore my responsibility to vote for elected officials who will use my taxpayer money for the good of all my fellow citizens?
This is why I am now a registered as a Democrat. Voting will be easy for me this year, as it's not remotely the only problem that Kari Lake, Blake Masters, and Mark Finchem are Republicans; they espouse beliefs and propose doing things that may very well lead to the end of our form of government.
I just re-read this. Jack, I did not mean to say that you think "friends, family, and churches" should take care of all charitable needs for people. You said this is what Republicans say, and you disagree with it.
Hi Mary--I can relate. I'm the oldest of seven from a conservative Irish Catholic family. I'm conservative in temperament, but radical in my rejection of American market idolatry. There is no force in the history of the world that has been more destructive of traditional communities, their customs, mores, and local cultures. Conservative Capitalism is an oxymoron.
My post-Roe solution for abortion is for every state to have a referendum on proposed abortion legislation and let only women vote in it. Only real chance to get a sensible solution that deals with its moral complexity. But of course that won't happen.
All of decent, sane America looks to Arizona with deep apprehension. It is clearly a leading indicator of what direction things will take for better or worse.
Irish Catholic family here too! Pretty much all of us are liberal leaning--must have been the moral teaching of our parents morphed into us deciding their Republican conservatism didn't quite match how they were teaching us to live.
Except you guys keep forgetting that one of the two political parties has gone bat shit crazy and has taken 44% of the American population with it. Sure it is great that a large number of Republicans and Democrats can agree on boilerplate ideals that do not mean anything in the real world. You act as if this were 1978 and we were talking reasonable people running on both sides of the aisle. We aren't and spouting this nonsense doesn't do anything to help fix the problems we have.
I have always agreed with you that Democrats are lousy at laying out what they really believe, and they cede that realm to the Republicans. The Democrats have been staying very close to center left for the last two years, but they seem to get no credit at all for NOT bending to the radical side of their party.
The Republicans on the other hand, have gone all in on supporting the radical side of their party. The saddest thing of all, is that center Democrats are willing to speak out against things that do not make sense, but there are maybe three Republicans willing to speak out against the election lies, and none are willing to speak out against the BS policies that other Republicans put on the table.
I believe the poll suggests that 44% of Republicans have not gone crazy.
How comforting. /s
Try again. I do talk to them. They're practically the only neighbors and fellow school kids parents I have.
Of course, while they bring up politics all the time, I do avoid the subject with them. Part of how I was raised (politics and religion). I also don't figure my chances of a productive conversation with someone who can't go 20 minutes in a non-political conversation without bashing Biden, California, and or libtards are very good. Of course other times it isn't so much political as racial, with N***** this and Jew that.... also out of left field.
Makes me appreciate those who can just have a friendship around our kids being on the same team without injecting their politics into it. They are the minority though.
"Sure it is great that a large number of Republicans and Democrats can agree on boilerplate ideals that do not mean anything in the real world."
Exactly! You know where I would've put my surprised exclamation point? After the Republican number here: тАЬThere are underlying differences between men and women, but discrimination on the basis of gender is wrong.тАЭ 91% (!!) of Republicans and 90% of Democrats agreed."
There is absolutely no way that a party that honestly believes that gender discrimination is wrong would be refusing to bail out the day care disaster, denying a gender gap in pay, and most prominently, taking away the privacy rights of women in select American states.
The reason that Republicans oppose all the anti-women programs you list is fundamental to Republican minimalist-state ideology. Establishment Republicans since Reagan have always believed that state has no role in solving those kinds of problems; they should be solved by markets in the private sector--or by relying on friends, family, and churches. We're not talking MAGA here, we're talking what has been mainstream GOP--Romney, McConnell, Ryan, etc.--privatizing Social Security is their Ayn Randian wet dream.
Establishment Republicans at their core have only two policy objectives--to lower taxes and minimize regulation. Everything else is window dressing. Republicans say they're for family values, and then support Neoliberal/Libertarian policies that make holding a family together as hard as possible. This is why Democrats have always been really the pro-family party. They actually support policies that might actually help families. But no, this is the slippery slope to communism, and we can't have that. Better we all suffer.
And then because maybe <5% of those families might be abusing the system, Republican rhetoric plays to sentiments that it's better we penalize the 95% by making sure that doesn't happen. Oh, the moral jeopardy!
Agree except that I don't think they have any policy objectives anymore except to take all and give none. Everything else is transactional for Republicans. States rights until they want a federal law and vice versa.
Too bad you can't hear me cheering your post, Jack Whelan.
This is why I switched to Democrat from Independent. (My caveat, and it's a big one, is that I disagree with most official Democratic positions on who-not what- is developing in a pregnant woman's womb. I think it's a human being with rights.)
My Republican governor in Arizona ran (and won twice) on the promise to lower taxes every year. He kept that promise. Would it have made a whole lot more sense to figure out what taxpayers wanted to fund and then carefully figure out how to do that, even if it meant raising taxes, even a little bit? Yes, but carefully analyzing problems and coming up with prudent solutions to solve the problems is not something that gets people elected, at least not in my state.
It comes down to your values, IMO. The values of Republicans emphasize supporting business, especially big business. If they think at all about how their policies will affect the individual or their family, they say something vague like "trickle down economics" , or "All Americans have equal opportunities; they need to work hard and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps."
My devout Catholic mother, also a devout Republican, who truly lived and taught her 8 kids the teachings of Jesus, once said to me that care for the poor and needy should not be funded by the government, it should be taken care of, as you say, "by relying on friends, family, and churches." I was dumbfounded. As a citizen and part of my government, is it not my responsibility to take thought for the poor and sick who won't have a home, food, and medical care if their friends, family, and churches can't, or won't provide it? Since I don't have the power to direct "government" money the way I want to, isn't it therefore my responsibility to vote for elected officials who will use my taxpayer money for the good of all my fellow citizens?
This is why I am now a registered as a Democrat. Voting will be easy for me this year, as it's not remotely the only problem that Kari Lake, Blake Masters, and Mark Finchem are Republicans; they espouse beliefs and propose doing things that may very well lead to the end of our form of government.
I just re-read this. Jack, I did not mean to say that you think "friends, family, and churches" should take care of all charitable needs for people. You said this is what Republicans say, and you disagree with it.
Hi Mary--I can relate. I'm the oldest of seven from a conservative Irish Catholic family. I'm conservative in temperament, but radical in my rejection of American market idolatry. There is no force in the history of the world that has been more destructive of traditional communities, their customs, mores, and local cultures. Conservative Capitalism is an oxymoron.
My post-Roe solution for abortion is for every state to have a referendum on proposed abortion legislation and let only women vote in it. Only real chance to get a sensible solution that deals with its moral complexity. But of course that won't happen.
All of decent, sane America looks to Arizona with deep apprehension. It is clearly a leading indicator of what direction things will take for better or worse.
Irish Catholic family here too! Pretty much all of us are liberal leaning--must have been the moral teaching of our parents morphed into us deciding their Republican conservatism didn't quite match how they were teaching us to live.