After seeing this latest on Michigan and similar happenings in other states controlled by the GOP , the potential to slide into Banana Republic and quasi authoritarianism is getting real by the minute. I think Lincoln's Secretary of State William Seward said " There was always just enough virtue in this republic to save it; sometimes none to spare", we squeaked by in 2020...Do we have enough left in 2022 and 2024??
Don't know that Seward quote, but what a great one! We also squeaked by in 1864. Lincoln thought he would lose a second term until the successes of Grant and Sherman. It could have been otherwise.
I do not know if we have enough to save it this time. If I had to lean one way or the other, I would say Yes, we do, but just barely.
No. 2022 is already rigged. Possibly last national election. Americans can no longer be counted on to do the right thing after exhausting all other possibilities. Mitch McConnell wins. So does Putin. Look at the global map already: most of the land mass is under totalitarian rule already; the GOP is one vote away from joining them.
Yeah, good luck with that "wild card." I've been hearing how the abortion issue is going to hurt Republicans at the polls for the last 40 years. But exit polls consistently show that the abortion issues gets Republicans more votes than it costs them. The fact is pro-life people vote on the abortion issue, while pro-choice people rarely do. (I learned that as a Republican candidate campaigning in an urban district, knocking on doors and talking to Democratic and independent voters..) Overturning Roe will alter that dynamic some, but not to the extent that it will make more than a couple points difference at best. Plus, you're going to have people on the left pushing extreme positions like abortion on demand for all 9 months of pregnancy. That's not going to be popular with most people.
For the record, when you ask people, most say they support Roe v. Wade. But when you ask them how late abortions should be allowed, they want the line drawn quite a bit earlier than the current line which is set at viability, i.e. the ability of the fetus to live outside the womb with or without assistance. It's pretty clear that people don't actually know the holding of Roe, which established a constitutional right to abortion on demand for the first two trimesters, which approach was altered by Planned Parenthood v. Casey to viability, now about 20-22 weeks into pregnancy. My guess is the Court will use the Mississippi case to draw a new line at 15-16 weeks, which ironically is where most people want the line.
Good points. As far as the left’s tendency to swing extreme, it’s hard to get more extreme than what red states are doing right now. Plus, there’s the tendency of the side that’s losing its position to have the most potent political activism; that’s been the right, since Roe, but now the shoe is on the other foot. Still, it’s only speculation that the formula will hold.
To me, it’s a worrisome sign in general that governments in Mexico and South America are relaxing abortion restrictions, while we are going the opposite direction. We are moving toward oppression, in what feels like a profound downward spiral, while countries we thought of as oppressive are moving towards more liberty.
I feel like our country, that proclaims itself as a beacon of democracy and liberty, is abandoning both, in a race to the bottom that most Americans do not support.
After seeing this latest on Michigan and similar happenings in other states controlled by the GOP , the potential to slide into Banana Republic and quasi authoritarianism is getting real by the minute. I think Lincoln's Secretary of State William Seward said " There was always just enough virtue in this republic to save it; sometimes none to spare", we squeaked by in 2020...Do we have enough left in 2022 and 2024??
Don't know that Seward quote, but what a great one! We also squeaked by in 1864. Lincoln thought he would lose a second term until the successes of Grant and Sherman. It could have been otherwise.
I do not know if we have enough to save it this time. If I had to lean one way or the other, I would say Yes, we do, but just barely.
No. 2022 is already rigged. Possibly last national election. Americans can no longer be counted on to do the right thing after exhausting all other possibilities. Mitch McConnell wins. So does Putin. Look at the global map already: most of the land mass is under totalitarian rule already; the GOP is one vote away from joining them.
A potential wild card is SCOTUS reversing Roe, during the heat of the campaign.
Yeah, good luck with that "wild card." I've been hearing how the abortion issue is going to hurt Republicans at the polls for the last 40 years. But exit polls consistently show that the abortion issues gets Republicans more votes than it costs them. The fact is pro-life people vote on the abortion issue, while pro-choice people rarely do. (I learned that as a Republican candidate campaigning in an urban district, knocking on doors and talking to Democratic and independent voters..) Overturning Roe will alter that dynamic some, but not to the extent that it will make more than a couple points difference at best. Plus, you're going to have people on the left pushing extreme positions like abortion on demand for all 9 months of pregnancy. That's not going to be popular with most people.
For the record, when you ask people, most say they support Roe v. Wade. But when you ask them how late abortions should be allowed, they want the line drawn quite a bit earlier than the current line which is set at viability, i.e. the ability of the fetus to live outside the womb with or without assistance. It's pretty clear that people don't actually know the holding of Roe, which established a constitutional right to abortion on demand for the first two trimesters, which approach was altered by Planned Parenthood v. Casey to viability, now about 20-22 weeks into pregnancy. My guess is the Court will use the Mississippi case to draw a new line at 15-16 weeks, which ironically is where most people want the line.
Good points. As far as the left’s tendency to swing extreme, it’s hard to get more extreme than what red states are doing right now. Plus, there’s the tendency of the side that’s losing its position to have the most potent political activism; that’s been the right, since Roe, but now the shoe is on the other foot. Still, it’s only speculation that the formula will hold.
To me, it’s a worrisome sign in general that governments in Mexico and South America are relaxing abortion restrictions, while we are going the opposite direction. We are moving toward oppression, in what feels like a profound downward spiral, while countries we thought of as oppressive are moving towards more liberty.
I feel like our country, that proclaims itself as a beacon of democracy and liberty, is abandoning both, in a race to the bottom that most Americans do not support.
Entirely possible, I suppose.
Sadly you're probably right.. All the evidence agrees with your assessment.