Where the "someone on the left over-steps" narrative breaks down for me is, does the Mars Candy corporation really represent The Left? Or Twix, or the makers of Mr. Potato Head, or the publishers of Doctor Suess? These are all businesses attempting to maximize profits by appealing to the broadest swath of customers. Wouldn't the "conservative" answer be to let the market correct their supposedly misplaced exuberance for woke candy bars or gender dysphoric potatoes or children's books without insensitive racial stereotypes?
This is where I expect the "conservative" outrage is coming from. The market isn't going to "correct" the problem for them, because the average person was not deeply invested in the gender expression of anthropomorphized M&Ms and potatoes. And they don't care that Dr. Suess's four least popular books aren't published anymore (not when they've read Green Eggs and Ham and Oh the Places You'll Go ad nauseum at bed times).
Thank you Maggie, because as soon as I read "someone on the left oversteps" I immediately lost interest in reading the rest of the article. Dr. Seuss, Mars Inc, and the makers of Mr. Potato Head are all private companies. If the Dr. Seuss Foundation has decided to stop printing new copies of 6 books that the vast majority of Americans haven't even heard of, that's their right. If Mars and other companies change their advertising strategies in an attempt to boost sales, that is also their right. And I fail to see how any of this is a left/right issue instead of just being a business issue. In fact, Mars Inc is an enormous GOP donor, so will we now see members of the GOP and the RNC returning the millions of dollars that Mars Inc has given to them over the years? I think we all know the answer to that.
I'm old enough to remember when Conservatives were all about free markets, and that any steps/changes taken by private companies were the right of those companies, and "the market" will work it out. I don't know who these people are, but they're not conservatives. They are whiny, reactionaries who live to light their hair on fire and be perpetuallly outraged by what private entities do - no matter how trivial and stupid.
Could not agree with you more, Maggie. But I would add that this whole pseudo-debate over so-called culture war issues is itself completely contrived. It puts me in a mind of something John Oliver pointed out a long time ago about the so-called "climate change" debate.
Oliver accurately pointed out that every time such a debate occurs, Bill Nye the science guy appears on one side opposite some nut job who's not even a scientist and the entire issue is presented as a 50-50 kind of proposition, instead of the 97тАУ3% proposition that it is. Oliver proposed in the episode that a scientifically accurate debate instead occur. So, he had three people who still thought "the jury's still out" on climate change, and then on the other side, in addition to Bill Nye, he brought in 96 other scientists into the studio to make the debate scientifically accurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGCJJUGsg
What you describe as "conservative" outrage is really the only polestar for anything coming out of the mouths of the GOP and MAGA types, for they long ago abandoned the quaint notion of responsible governance. Further, I suggest that it really won't matter whether some nutty thing is proposed by a Democrat to serve as a foil for their inevitable whataboutism and bothsidesism and endless false equivalencies they spout in response; for even in the absence of a stupid idea from Democrats, the GOP will simply make up something fraudulent to use in its place. There is no logic to it, because logic is completely irrelevant in their world, where truth no longer exists.
Classic example of that is the kerfuffle over litter boxes in public schools. It started with someone noticing that there were bags of cat litter in a school somewhere, and then they superimposed a completely fraudulent narrative around that discovery about kids wanting to identify as cats. "Furries" they called them. Of course what they didn't tell us was that the janitorial staff keeps cat litter around because they need to clean up after kids puked their guts out during mandatory active shooter drills.
There is no aspect of society that is immune from this utter fraudulence now, just look at Tony Dungy's Twitter feed about cat litter boxes, and how that discussion morphed into him weighing in on things like women's menstruation. This is a a religious nut job who gets paid millions of dollars to call NFL games.
The culture war is asymmetrical, and the sooner we realize that the better we will be able to find a way to fight it.
Carbon in ice cores is iron-clad. Air and water warming is iron-clad. The entire hypothesis would be more iron clad if we had control worlds and time in which to experiment.
Excellent point. ItтАЩs NEVER Dem politicians or liberal organizations that are behind these тАЬwokeтАЭ decisions, but that doesnтАЩt matter to FOX and its viewers.
Just like MAGA will abandon democracy when it no longer produces the results they like, they will abandon free market economics when it no longer produces the results they like.
I've always been struck by how Trump mimics Mussolini both in the poses he strikes (head tilted up and to the side with his jaw jutted defiantly forward) and in his utter mediocrity.
Things they've abandoned: democracy, a foreign policy that counters threats to global stability, fiscal responsibility, general governance,
Things they're willing to abandon if the price is right: the free market, vestigial traces of "live and let live" libertarianism, Social Security and Medicare
Things they're unwilling to abandon: gun rights, white nationalism, total abortion bans, and election denialism
If that were true, they wouldn't have lost the WH, the House, or the Senate in 2020. Just under 3 months ago they lost the Senate (again), and only have a 4 seat margin in the House.
So if they can win any branch of the government in any election, why didn't they in the last 2 elections?
Can =/= will. It would require much more than 50% of the population to guarantee wins in any given contest. But to win or get close on all fronts in multiple elections in a row means they have near 50% of the population. You can argue they have structural advantages, so you can maybe notch that down to 45%. That is still well above 35%.
Perhaps the point Mary was making was that 35% are true believers but they clearly have *support* from many more Republicans than just true believers as evidenced by recent electoral history. Additionally, that support has been durable over several cycles despite many many anti-Democratic acts so they aren't swing voters by any stretch.
I was an econ major and I can't remember all of the characteristics of perfect competition but among them was no seller or buyer was large enough to influence the market, no product differentiation (no branding, no Coke or Pepsi, just cola), perfect knowledge on the part of all parties (no trade secrets, no patents), plus others I have since forgotten.
Essentially it defines a market that simply does not exist exept possibly in a few corners of our economy.
Yes, I've noticed that before. Why do TV commercials show racially mixed couples? Because capitalism requires constantly creating new markets. It's not "woke", it's economics. But hey, if we could get corporations' marketing departments to stop trying to sell me consumer goods by lying about their companies being inclusive and environmentally friendly, then I'm all for more truth in advertising.
"In a Gandhi-esque turn of phrase that surely brought a tear to the eye of anyone across the globe who yearns for justice, the M&MтАЩs press release declared: тАЬAs the world changes, so do we.тАЭ" That's probably the funniest thing I'll read all day.
While I agree that businesses see market some of what is going on could be a reaction to complaints that there was not enough diversity in media. (Same issue happens re the Academy Awards - and now we are seeing a reaction that this years oscars are too white).
Oh, I have no doubt that people complain about diversity in commercials. Some people says there's too much, some people say not enough, making this an easy way for a company to "score" culture war "points." I suspect people would prefer some diversity in the ranks of these companies, but since that won't be on the table, commercials are easier. And thanks to FOX and Facebook, they can generate so much free publicity! It's sickeningly cynical. Or maybe I'm the one who is too cynical.
Second time today a comment has me laughing. Mr. Trebon (stood all of 5'2'') for 9th grade Latin; "Birdie" Wilson (about 4'10" on tiptoes for Latin II the following year...got me to wondering if all high school Latin instructors were vertically challenged). I remember writing on my 9th grade Latin notebook cover:
Latin is dead language
It's plain enough to see,
It killed off all the Romans
And now it's killing me.
And below that:
Non Semper Paratus
Latin was the only "foreign" language offered at my junior high. Aside from math, Latin has probably been the most valuable course I ever enrolled in.
My 9th grade Latin teacher was Leo "Twinkletoes" Paquin, who once upon a time played football for Fordham U as an offensive lineman with Vince Lombardi. They were two of the legendary "Seven Blocks of Granite" of 1936 fame. He was neither vertically nor horizontally challenged.
No, what conservatives are really mad about is that corporations are catering to an audience that doesn't always include them. Whether the M&M candies have a spokesperson or gendered candies or whatever doesn't really matter to the average person. But if you're Fox you need to fill the day with stuff to keep the viewers outraged.
The weirdest thing about the Mr. Potato Head kerfuffle is that I, a tail-end boomer, remember my Mr and Mrs potato head sets, which came without a plastic potato. We used real potatoes and the whole fun of it was making what we thought were silly combinations. There are a lot of people in the furious right who are at least as old as I am, and probably did the very same thing, none of us thinking we were making a statement about gender identity.
Really? I never knew that. I'm a tail end GenXer, and we had the plastic potato, but the one thing I know for sure is that NONE of us cared about gender when it came to playing with them. It really was about making the funniest combos, and I don't remember a single playmate of mine saying "you can't put the heels on Mr. Potato Head!!!"
I remember in my childhood, my sonтАЩs childhood and my grandchildrenтАЩs childhood there always being a child or two in a group who would always try to police gendered behaviour. How often someone would say. тАЬGirls canтАЩt be SupermanтАЭ or тАЬBoys canтАЩt wear pinkтАЭ but for the third generation, there were other kids saying тАЬGirls can be anything they wantтАЭ and тАЬBoys can wear pink and wear dresses if they wantтАЭ. Things have changed. The gender police are fading from the playground. TodayтАЩs under 30 s really donтАЩt care. Be who you are. That is such a hopeful mantra. Now if only we old people would get out of the way.
I actually looked it up. The plastic potato was introduced in 1964, so my memory may be wrong. Maybe we just thought it was more fun with real potatoes.
The only thing stopping use of actual potatoes was Mom who didnтАЩt want kids playing with what was scheduled to be on the family supper table. Boiling water accomplishes a lot but it canтАЩt erase the mental image of little JohnnieтАЩs runny nose.
Ellen -- but now you are one of those people who take your children or grandchildren to Drag Queen story hour, aren't you? (being sarcastic and I love how the furious right also thinks drag queens are EVERYWHERE).
It needs to be more than potatoes. There only being potatoes is extremely vegetiblist. Where are the carrots, or tomatoes, or avocados or other vegetables (root or otherwise)....
wait, is a tomato a veggie or a fruit. I want to say fruit. Fruits demand representation too.
That struck me, too. Somehow a mega corporation like M&M Mars is now "the left." This whole move was done to increase sales, not advance a lefty agenda.
Mars is the 4th biggest privately held company in America. The Mars family is the 3rd richest family in America, after the Waltons and the Kochs. If I had to guess, I'd say the "wokeness" of M&Ms and Twix bars will not extend past merchandizing opportunities and into tax policy or food regulation.
The Mars family owns huge tracts of very expensive real estate in horse country in Virginia. They are also big donors to Koch and other right wing causes.
Where the "someone on the left over-steps" narrative breaks down for me is, does the Mars Candy corporation really represent The Left? Or Twix, or the makers of Mr. Potato Head, or the publishers of Doctor Suess? These are all businesses attempting to maximize profits by appealing to the broadest swath of customers. Wouldn't the "conservative" answer be to let the market correct their supposedly misplaced exuberance for woke candy bars or gender dysphoric potatoes or children's books without insensitive racial stereotypes?
This is where I expect the "conservative" outrage is coming from. The market isn't going to "correct" the problem for them, because the average person was not deeply invested in the gender expression of anthropomorphized M&Ms and potatoes. And they don't care that Dr. Suess's four least popular books aren't published anymore (not when they've read Green Eggs and Ham and Oh the Places You'll Go ad nauseum at bed times).
Thank you Maggie, because as soon as I read "someone on the left oversteps" I immediately lost interest in reading the rest of the article. Dr. Seuss, Mars Inc, and the makers of Mr. Potato Head are all private companies. If the Dr. Seuss Foundation has decided to stop printing new copies of 6 books that the vast majority of Americans haven't even heard of, that's their right. If Mars and other companies change their advertising strategies in an attempt to boost sales, that is also their right. And I fail to see how any of this is a left/right issue instead of just being a business issue. In fact, Mars Inc is an enormous GOP donor, so will we now see members of the GOP and the RNC returning the millions of dollars that Mars Inc has given to them over the years? I think we all know the answer to that.
I'm old enough to remember when Conservatives were all about free markets, and that any steps/changes taken by private companies were the right of those companies, and "the market" will work it out. I don't know who these people are, but they're not conservatives. They are whiny, reactionaries who live to light their hair on fire and be perpetuallly outraged by what private entities do - no matter how trivial and stupid.
Friendly edit: "...have their hair lit on fire..."
Thank you. My typing fingers got ahead of my brain apparently.
Could not agree with you more, Maggie. But I would add that this whole pseudo-debate over so-called culture war issues is itself completely contrived. It puts me in a mind of something John Oliver pointed out a long time ago about the so-called "climate change" debate.
Oliver accurately pointed out that every time such a debate occurs, Bill Nye the science guy appears on one side opposite some nut job who's not even a scientist and the entire issue is presented as a 50-50 kind of proposition, instead of the 97тАУ3% proposition that it is. Oliver proposed in the episode that a scientifically accurate debate instead occur. So, he had three people who still thought "the jury's still out" on climate change, and then on the other side, in addition to Bill Nye, he brought in 96 other scientists into the studio to make the debate scientifically accurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGCJJUGsg
What you describe as "conservative" outrage is really the only polestar for anything coming out of the mouths of the GOP and MAGA types, for they long ago abandoned the quaint notion of responsible governance. Further, I suggest that it really won't matter whether some nutty thing is proposed by a Democrat to serve as a foil for their inevitable whataboutism and bothsidesism and endless false equivalencies they spout in response; for even in the absence of a stupid idea from Democrats, the GOP will simply make up something fraudulent to use in its place. There is no logic to it, because logic is completely irrelevant in their world, where truth no longer exists.
Classic example of that is the kerfuffle over litter boxes in public schools. It started with someone noticing that there were bags of cat litter in a school somewhere, and then they superimposed a completely fraudulent narrative around that discovery about kids wanting to identify as cats. "Furries" they called them. Of course what they didn't tell us was that the janitorial staff keeps cat litter around because they need to clean up after kids puked their guts out during mandatory active shooter drills.
There is no aspect of society that is immune from this utter fraudulence now, just look at Tony Dungy's Twitter feed about cat litter boxes, and how that discussion morphed into him weighing in on things like women's menstruation. This is a a religious nut job who gets paid millions of dollars to call NFL games.
The culture war is asymmetrical, and the sooner we realize that the better we will be able to find a way to fight it.
Carbon in ice cores is iron-clad. Air and water warming is iron-clad. The entire hypothesis would be more iron clad if we had control worlds and time in which to experiment.
Excellent point. ItтАЩs NEVER Dem politicians or liberal organizations that are behind these тАЬwokeтАЭ decisions, but that doesnтАЩt matter to FOX and its viewers.
Just like MAGA will abandon democracy when it no longer produces the results they like, they will abandon free market economics when it no longer produces the results they like.
Like the Nazis that they emulate.
And collaborate with, and appear alongside, and publicly defend/praise, and invite to dinner.
I've always been struck by how Trump mimics Mussolini both in the poses he strikes (head tilted up and to the side with his jaw jutted defiantly forward) and in his utter mediocrity.
Things they've abandoned: democracy, a foreign policy that counters threats to global stability, fiscal responsibility, general governance,
Things they're willing to abandon if the price is right: the free market, vestigial traces of "live and let live" libertarianism, Social Security and Medicare
Things they're unwilling to abandon: gun rights, white nationalism, total abortion bans, and election denialism
Hell of a platform.
Agree Maggie and still they have the support of roughly 35% of the countryтАж..smdh.
Its way more than 35%. They can win any branch of the national government in any election.
If that were true, they wouldn't have lost the WH, the House, or the Senate in 2020. Just under 3 months ago they lost the Senate (again), and only have a 4 seat margin in the House.
So if they can win any branch of the government in any election, why didn't they in the last 2 elections?
Can =/= will. It would require much more than 50% of the population to guarantee wins in any given contest. But to win or get close on all fronts in multiple elections in a row means they have near 50% of the population. You can argue they have structural advantages, so you can maybe notch that down to 45%. That is still well above 35%.
Perhaps the point Mary was making was that 35% are true believers but they clearly have *support* from many more Republicans than just true believers as evidenced by recent electoral history. Additionally, that support has been durable over several cycles despite many many anti-Democratic acts so they aren't swing voters by any stretch.
I was an econ major and I can't remember all of the characteristics of perfect competition but among them was no seller or buyer was large enough to influence the market, no product differentiation (no branding, no Coke or Pepsi, just cola), perfect knowledge on the part of all parties (no trade secrets, no patents), plus others I have since forgotten.
Essentially it defines a market that simply does not exist exept possibly in a few corners of our economy.
Yes, I've noticed that before. Why do TV commercials show racially mixed couples? Because capitalism requires constantly creating new markets. It's not "woke", it's economics. But hey, if we could get corporations' marketing departments to stop trying to sell me consumer goods by lying about their companies being inclusive and environmentally friendly, then I'm all for more truth in advertising.
"In a Gandhi-esque turn of phrase that surely brought a tear to the eye of anyone across the globe who yearns for justice, the M&MтАЩs press release declared: тАЬAs the world changes, so do we.тАЭ" That's probably the funniest thing I'll read all day.
The only color these large corporations care about is GREEN (not energy but money).
While I agree that businesses see market some of what is going on could be a reaction to complaints that there was not enough diversity in media. (Same issue happens re the Academy Awards - and now we are seeing a reaction that this years oscars are too white).
The "too white" Oscars has been a running theme for at least the past decade.
Oh, I have no doubt that people complain about diversity in commercials. Some people says there's too much, some people say not enough, making this an easy way for a company to "score" culture war "points." I suspect people would prefer some diversity in the ranks of these companies, but since that won't be on the table, commercials are easier. And thanks to FOX and Facebook, they can generate so much free publicity! It's sickeningly cynical. Or maybe I'm the one who is too cynical.
I wonder what people these days would have to say about Mr Whipple squeezing the Charmin?
Charlie, JVL, when are you going to offer this lovely lady the contract she deserves?
(psst, Maggie, typo. It's ad not as.)
I have shamed my high school Latin teacher, and will now recite the Pater Noster and three Ave Marias in penance.
Second time today a comment has me laughing. Mr. Trebon (stood all of 5'2'') for 9th grade Latin; "Birdie" Wilson (about 4'10" on tiptoes for Latin II the following year...got me to wondering if all high school Latin instructors were vertically challenged). I remember writing on my 9th grade Latin notebook cover:
Latin is dead language
It's plain enough to see,
It killed off all the Romans
And now it's killing me.
And below that:
Non Semper Paratus
Latin was the only "foreign" language offered at my junior high. Aside from math, Latin has probably been the most valuable course I ever enrolled in.
My 9th grade Latin teacher was Leo "Twinkletoes" Paquin, who once upon a time played football for Fordham U as an offensive lineman with Vince Lombardi. They were two of the legendary "Seven Blocks of Granite" of 1936 fame. He was neither vertically nor horizontally challenged.
No, what conservatives are really mad about is that corporations are catering to an audience that doesn't always include them. Whether the M&M candies have a spokesperson or gendered candies or whatever doesn't really matter to the average person. But if you're Fox you need to fill the day with stuff to keep the viewers outraged.
Excellent point!
Mr. Potato Head can be diverse and inclusive if alternate vegetables are employed.
Legit LOL.
The weirdest thing about the Mr. Potato Head kerfuffle is that I, a tail-end boomer, remember my Mr and Mrs potato head sets, which came without a plastic potato. We used real potatoes and the whole fun of it was making what we thought were silly combinations. There are a lot of people in the furious right who are at least as old as I am, and probably did the very same thing, none of us thinking we were making a statement about gender identity.
Really? I never knew that. I'm a tail end GenXer, and we had the plastic potato, but the one thing I know for sure is that NONE of us cared about gender when it came to playing with them. It really was about making the funniest combos, and I don't remember a single playmate of mine saying "you can't put the heels on Mr. Potato Head!!!"
I remember in my childhood, my sonтАЩs childhood and my grandchildrenтАЩs childhood there always being a child or two in a group who would always try to police gendered behaviour. How often someone would say. тАЬGirls canтАЩt be SupermanтАЭ or тАЬBoys canтАЩt wear pinkтАЭ but for the third generation, there were other kids saying тАЬGirls can be anything they wantтАЭ and тАЬBoys can wear pink and wear dresses if they wantтАЭ. Things have changed. The gender police are fading from the playground. TodayтАЩs under 30 s really donтАЩt care. Be who you are. That is such a hopeful mantra. Now if only we old people would get out of the way.
I grew up without Mr. Potato Head. Does that make me ideologically pure?
It makes you woefully deprived of a wonderful and fulfilling childhood. My thoughts and prayers go out to you.
Or maybe you are just the spawn of the devil ;)
Mine came with a plastic potato. This was in the early 60s.
I actually looked it up. The plastic potato was introduced in 1964, so my memory may be wrong. Maybe we just thought it was more fun with real potatoes.
There was nothing stopping you from using a real potato even though there were plastic ones, you may well have used real potatoes. I did on occasion.
The only thing stopping use of actual potatoes was Mom who didnтАЩt want kids playing with what was scheduled to be on the family supper table. Boiling water accomplishes a lot but it canтАЩt erase the mental image of little JohnnieтАЩs runny nose.
Ellen -- but now you are one of those people who take your children or grandchildren to Drag Queen story hour, aren't you? (being sarcastic and I love how the furious right also thinks drag queens are EVERYWHERE).
Since there is now a Drag Queen in the Republican Caucus of the House of Represenratives they MUST be EVERYWHERE!
He's not a queen. It was just fun, youthful experimentation. When he was in his 30's.
It needs to be more than potatoes. There only being potatoes is extremely vegetiblist. Where are the carrots, or tomatoes, or avocados or other vegetables (root or otherwise)....
wait, is a tomato a veggie or a fruit. I want to say fruit. Fruits demand representation too.
I believe, but I could be wrong, that anything with seeds is a fruit.
However, pumpkins and squash and zucchini have seeds, so I'm not sure that's a hard and fast rule.
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Fruit_vs_Vegetable#:~:text=Diffen%20%E2%80%BA%20Science%20%E2%80%BA%20Biology%20%E2%80%BA%20Botany%20A,have%20a%20role%20in%20the%20plant%27s%20reproductive%20cycle.
Vegetables of Color? Eggplants?
That struck me, too. Somehow a mega corporation like M&M Mars is now "the left." This whole move was done to increase sales, not advance a lefty agenda.
they throw M&M's from the walls of Cinderella's Castle to the masses below. Peasants waving Clearasil tubes.
Mars is the 4th biggest privately held company in America. The Mars family is the 3rd richest family in America, after the Waltons and the Kochs. If I had to guess, I'd say the "wokeness" of M&Ms and Twix bars will not extend past merchandizing opportunities and into tax policy or food regulation.
The Mars family owns huge tracts of very expensive real estate in horse country in Virginia. They are also big donors to Koch and other right wing causes.
"Woke" is the last word I'd use to describe them.