Just 2 cents here. Not looking to gainsay anyone's opinion on this.
Was aware of the origin of pot / kettle, but not the medieval connection to cards. My own experience with the word and phrase has been this: 'call a spade a spade' meant speaking frankly and honestly. No racial connection. As to the word itself, in my youth (a long time ago and in a southern state), I heard the word spade used as a derogatory racial term a few times, always by people of my parent's generation or older. Don't think I ever heard it used that way by people my age or, later, younger than me, though some of those folks had plenty of other derogatory and racist words to use and not much compunction about using them.
Some terms or phrases do depend on 'black' (or darkness) as a means to create negative meaning or connotation...'black-hearted', for instance. Don't think there's anything racial about that one, at least I could find none associated with its etymology. But I'll bet there are some people somewhere who would see it that way for some reason.
Words and language can be tricky things. Time passes, meanings and connotations change, sometimes only slightly, sometimes more so, as common usage and understanding at the time dictate. And so you end up with what we have here.
I don't often think to use the phrase 'call a...' because it has fallen by the wayside a good bit. But when it comes to mind, I don't think of it as racist.
As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, meaning is in the mind of the listener (or reader). And we're all unique individuals with different experiences. As relates to that G.B. Shaw quote about two peoples (Brits and Americans) being divided by a common language, I often think the same applies in a way about us as Americans alone: a people sometimes divided by a common language, at least to some extent.
I am also intrigued by your idea of 'fossil racism' in our language. Never thought of that before. In case you haven't guessed, language and words and their usage are of interest to me. No expert by any means. Just an interested observer (and user). So, thanks for a new idea and something else to contemplate in that regard.
I think be mindful and count to ten both good advice.
Yeah, definitions can often seem 'polite' compared to how a word or phrase may be understood colloquially. One example from many of a quick google re: 'call a...': "speak plainly without avoiding unpleasant issues". Which really has been my own personal experience with this particular phrase, but obviously not yours or others. Perceptions of meanings depend on different things, and often we aren't aware of what they even are. And sometimes our own perceptions of meanings change with time. Which is what I was getting at with that "a people sometimes divided by a common language" thought. Not sure a whole lot can be done about that, other than the type of thing that's been going on here. It's a very large and diverse country, after all. And as with other things, one size doesn't always fit all. But on a more positive note, we'd all probably be bored a lot more often if it did. ;-)
I actually never heard the word тАЬspadeтАЭ used derogatorily. And never heard it applied to humans until I went to a racially diverse boarding school. The black kids used it about themselvesтАж idk. My brain hurts now.
Just 2 cents here. Not looking to gainsay anyone's opinion on this.
Was aware of the origin of pot / kettle, but not the medieval connection to cards. My own experience with the word and phrase has been this: 'call a spade a spade' meant speaking frankly and honestly. No racial connection. As to the word itself, in my youth (a long time ago and in a southern state), I heard the word spade used as a derogatory racial term a few times, always by people of my parent's generation or older. Don't think I ever heard it used that way by people my age or, later, younger than me, though some of those folks had plenty of other derogatory and racist words to use and not much compunction about using them.
Some terms or phrases do depend on 'black' (or darkness) as a means to create negative meaning or connotation...'black-hearted', for instance. Don't think there's anything racial about that one, at least I could find none associated with its etymology. But I'll bet there are some people somewhere who would see it that way for some reason.
Words and language can be tricky things. Time passes, meanings and connotations change, sometimes only slightly, sometimes more so, as common usage and understanding at the time dictate. And so you end up with what we have here.
I don't often think to use the phrase 'call a...' because it has fallen by the wayside a good bit. But when it comes to mind, I don't think of it as racist.
As beauty is in the eye of the beholder, meaning is in the mind of the listener (or reader). And we're all unique individuals with different experiences. As relates to that G.B. Shaw quote about two peoples (Brits and Americans) being divided by a common language, I often think the same applies in a way about us as Americans alone: a people sometimes divided by a common language, at least to some extent.
I am also intrigued by your idea of 'fossil racism' in our language. Never thought of that before. In case you haven't guessed, language and words and their usage are of interest to me. No expert by any means. Just an interested observer (and user). So, thanks for a new idea and something else to contemplate in that regard.
I think be mindful and count to ten both good advice.
"'call a spade a spade' meant speaking frankly and honestly. "
I've never heard it used that way. Or maybe the definition is phrased that politely.
What I hear is this, "I'm going to say this and I don't give a Fk if you like it or not.
The modern equivalent "this may not be politically correct but..."
Yeah, definitions can often seem 'polite' compared to how a word or phrase may be understood colloquially. One example from many of a quick google re: 'call a...': "speak plainly without avoiding unpleasant issues". Which really has been my own personal experience with this particular phrase, but obviously not yours or others. Perceptions of meanings depend on different things, and often we aren't aware of what they even are. And sometimes our own perceptions of meanings change with time. Which is what I was getting at with that "a people sometimes divided by a common language" thought. Not sure a whole lot can be done about that, other than the type of thing that's been going on here. It's a very large and diverse country, after all. And as with other things, one size doesn't always fit all. But on a more positive note, we'd all probably be bored a lot more often if it did. ;-)
Your definition/usage is why I called it a fossil.
For most of the 20 century at least, it has been deeply tied to American racism even if certain individuals don't currently use it that way.
I actually never heard the word тАЬspadeтАЭ used derogatorily. And never heard it applied to humans until I went to a racially diverse boarding school. The black kids used it about themselvesтАж idk. My brain hurts now.
Yeah. I get a headache or 3 along these lines sometimes.
Recommend aspirin. Or bourbon. (Not in tandem, though.) Myself, I prefer the 90-proof remedy.