No apologies needed, knowltok, but let's not leave out women when you talk about how about 80% of the people in this country have been historically marginalized and should stand up to bigotry.
Shawn said in an earlier comment that "there's a tried and true method for understanding human motivations: greed and self-interest." Sadly, I agree with him. I think the reason for the founding of the world's religions-- and, heck, even non-religious philosophies of principles of how to live--is that many people want there to be a better set of motivations to help us live together in peace and harmony than greed and their own self-interest.
Greed and self interest are definitely prime motivators in human affairs. One very disturbing thing I learned from the Facebook whistle blower, is how their vast data revealed hate as a prime lure to more activity - which is dollars for Facebook. But the underlying fact of how attracted to hate itself we humans are, was very disturbing to learn. If it had been set up as a scientific psych experiment it probably wouldn’t have passed an ethics review. But we got the information somewhat serendipitously. Humans are attracted to hate. We have to admit it, in our quest to try to defang it.
Certain humans with innate powers of manipulation like Trump and Hitler, know this intuitively and can channel it for greed and self interest. So it comes full circle. But the pawns are nonetheless lured by hate itself.
Good point. I'm a believer in the concept that human nature is fairly universal. By which I mean that it can happen here. We aren't somehow magically special and immune from things like fascism or other brands of authoritarianism. Of course, it doesn't seem so profound of a statement as it did 20 years ago.
I sometimes wonder if we might not be stuck with a best course of just channeling that hate. Hate intolerance. Hate authoritarianism. Hate grifters. Hate those that profit off of our pain. Etc., etc.
Not what I'd call optimal, but in my darker moments I'm not sure humans are capable of being enlightened beings en masse.
"No apologies needed, knowltok, but let's not leave out women when you talk about how about 80% of the people in this country have been historically marginalized and should stand up to bigotry."
Now listen here, little lady! - I jest, I jest!.
But seriously, palm to forehead on leaving women out (well, all the ones not included in my original list ;) ).
On the religion front, in some ways I think you are right, in others, greed and self-interest do pretty well in covering various religions. The guy who trudged up and down the ziggurat to talk to the Sky Father wound up with a pretty cushy lifestyle, you know.
No apologies needed, knowltok, but let's not leave out women when you talk about how about 80% of the people in this country have been historically marginalized and should stand up to bigotry.
Shawn said in an earlier comment that "there's a tried and true method for understanding human motivations: greed and self-interest." Sadly, I agree with him. I think the reason for the founding of the world's religions-- and, heck, even non-religious philosophies of principles of how to live--is that many people want there to be a better set of motivations to help us live together in peace and harmony than greed and their own self-interest.
Greed and self interest are definitely prime motivators in human affairs. One very disturbing thing I learned from the Facebook whistle blower, is how their vast data revealed hate as a prime lure to more activity - which is dollars for Facebook. But the underlying fact of how attracted to hate itself we humans are, was very disturbing to learn. If it had been set up as a scientific psych experiment it probably wouldn’t have passed an ethics review. But we got the information somewhat serendipitously. Humans are attracted to hate. We have to admit it, in our quest to try to defang it.
Certain humans with innate powers of manipulation like Trump and Hitler, know this intuitively and can channel it for greed and self interest. So it comes full circle. But the pawns are nonetheless lured by hate itself.
Good point. I'm a believer in the concept that human nature is fairly universal. By which I mean that it can happen here. We aren't somehow magically special and immune from things like fascism or other brands of authoritarianism. Of course, it doesn't seem so profound of a statement as it did 20 years ago.
I sometimes wonder if we might not be stuck with a best course of just channeling that hate. Hate intolerance. Hate authoritarianism. Hate grifters. Hate those that profit off of our pain. Etc., etc.
Not what I'd call optimal, but in my darker moments I'm not sure humans are capable of being enlightened beings en masse.
"No apologies needed, knowltok, but let's not leave out women when you talk about how about 80% of the people in this country have been historically marginalized and should stand up to bigotry."
Now listen here, little lady! - I jest, I jest!.
But seriously, palm to forehead on leaving women out (well, all the ones not included in my original list ;) ).
On the religion front, in some ways I think you are right, in others, greed and self-interest do pretty well in covering various religions. The guy who trudged up and down the ziggurat to talk to the Sky Father wound up with a pretty cushy lifestyle, you know.