Among the magnificent Republican caucus-goers in my own State of Iowa, a whopping 42% of them said that Trump's comments regarding immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation made them want to support him MOAR.
Trump: *does some Nazi talking*
GOP electorate: HELL YEAH!
Like... I don't even know what to say at this point. Trump's would-be dictatorial fascism isn't a bug to the Republican electorate anymore; it's a straight up feature.
There are a lot of people out there, and not just in the South, who have this fixed image of America, that is not real. In their neighborhoods, they want white, Christian, heterosexual people. And in many areas that exists, though not a 100%. It hurts their brains to think out of the box. A neighbor of mine lived by slogans. I don't how many times a day she would let people know that, "she was guided by 3 values, God, Country and Family." Whatever that meant.
I think this is actually something to start shouting to the rooftops. Start tying the Republican party ever closer to Trump and his fascist shit. Then start campaigning against it not with facts, figures, history, etc., but with what the American people will understand. Use phrases like, "Walks like a duck, talks like a duck..." and "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining."
Couple that with some nods to WWII and some cultural references. Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Indiana Jones line about hating Nazi's, Blues Brothers, etc. This country has a deep tradition of believing itself to be anti-nazi. Pull on that as we use 'common sense' to tie Trump and the Republicans to Nazis by the very words they use.
They probably would think that putting non white, non Christians in camps or deporting them would not be a horrible idea. They might not say it out loud.
That's why you don't go down the rabbit hole of specifics. Nazis = bad. Trump quoting lines from Mein Kampf. That's it. Don't go any deeper than that. No arguments or discussions on particulars of policy or anything else. Just a flat out, "Trump's a Nazi, and all real Americans know that Nazis are evil."
Nazis have been the universal bad guys of the 20th century, surpassed, perhaps, only by zombie Nazis. No matter your politics, except for a few deplorables, we could all agree the fascism and antisemitism were bad. How did we found ourselves in this place?
Great idea, by the way, of framing things in terms of pop-culture references. WWIJD (What would Indiana Jones do?)
Plus start blustering a bit past Marquis of Queensbury rules. Trump's denial about reading Mein Kampf is a perfect example. It isn't something to debate, to try and prove or disprove, etc. Just say, "I honestly don't care whether he came up with that Nazi bullshit from reading the book or all on his own, it is flat out Un-American."
My family has German roots. Many relocated to, you guessed it, IOWA.
Granted that generations ago, but not so much that they can't see history. And walk around the cemetery of my grandparents--- there many Adolph gravestones, not so many in the past 100 years.
I'm with Jonah Goldberg on this. He said he didn't believe in his heart of hearts Trump WANTS to be a dictator, but he listens to people who flatter him - Stephen Miller, Bannon, Roger Stone, etc. - and they want him to be a dictator. He's all about llb-owning.
Poor Donald. He is just being led astray by his advisers. There's a remote chance I would be sympathetic if all those advisers were forced on him. He sure seems to pick and keep a lot of authoritarian advisers for someone who does not want to be a dictator.
Jonah just wants to pretend that somehow Trump's character was not completely known from long before he came down the escalator.
It's not that he does or doesn't want to be, it's that he has no political ideology other than punishing people he doesn't like. Jonah knows Trump is a sociopath. He has no character. He just wants power over people to get what he wants.
disagree - presuming tr-mp has a heart, within it he wants to (continue to) be a dictator - been one in his life so far, why would he not want now? (does he have the capacity to not want to be dictator, to grok anything else?)
Trump has always admired strongmen, and envied what they have. Once in office, submitting to the indignities required of a democratic leader became beneath what he considered due to him. Do you remember some joke he made to Putin, when, indicating the press, he said theyтАЩd soon be singing another tune if they lived under PutinтАЩs system? It was the true word spoken in jest, like so many of TrumpтАЩs little pleasantries. Only his pathological laziness, and the determination of certain members of his staff to distract, cajole, or otherwise discreetly retrain him, kept his dangerousness under restraint the first time. The second time, heтАЩll have personnel ready to make sure he is never insulted by his countryтАЩs rejection again.
He may not want to be a dictator in his child-like mind, but I do believe he wants to use the power of the state to punish those he thinks need punishing. He isn't bright enough to realize the connection.
I have a feeling there was a lot of that in Germany and Italy too. Upsetting the bien-pensants, do-gooders, and effete intellectuals has always thrilled some of the "booboisie."
We keep saying, "This isn't who we are as Americans." The Super-Dark JVL on my shoulder says, "No, this is EXACTLY who we are -- or at least, a very sizable chunk of us." It is instructive to remember that many Americans stood with the Nazis. The Nazis held a freaking rally at Madison Square Garden for f's sake in 1939. Behold the horrifying image of George Washington, the American flag, and the swastika next to each other at MSG here.
"At Madison Square Garden, the rally opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag. The mood was jubilant. Attendees wore Nazi armbands, waved American flags and held aloft posters with slogans like "Stop Jewish Domination of Christian America." There were storm troopers in the aisles, their uniforms almost identical to those of Nazi Germany. "It looked like any political rally тАФ only with a Nazi twist," said Arnie Bernstein, author of Swastika Nation.
The speeches were explicitly anti-Semitic, and tirades against "job-taking Jewish refugees" were met with thunderous applause. "They demanded a white gentile America. They denounced Roosevelt as 'Rosenfeld,' to say that Roosevelt was in the pocket of rich Jews," said Sarah Churchwell, author of Behold, America. In equal measure to the xenophobia, the speeches were loaded with American boosterism."
Replace the Swastikas with Red Hats (or just leave the swastikas- no difference anyway) and youтАЩve got any and every Trump Rally 2015, 2016, 2019, 2020, 2023 2024. Americans as a group are entitled, ignorant and at a base level, pretty damn bigoted. They were in 1859, they were in 1939, and they are today. Oh, and I have had one simple answer for so many burning questions posed by JVL about тАШmericans, and here it comes; тАШmericans are pretty fтАЩn stupid.
As bad and deplorable as all that was, the US hadn't gone to war with Nazi Germany yet. I don't look fondly at the attendees, but I reckon many of their opinions regarding the Nazi Party changed a few years later. What I can't reconcile with is that the GOP electorate should freaking know better now, since they can't claim ignorance.
Yes, American attitudes and policies changed a few years later, but why? I would argue that Americans rejected GermanyтАЩs military ambitions (soundly) but less that there was a massive change of heart relative to Jewish people. Antisemitism survived WWII even if the Nazi party did not.
When Florida didnтАЩt out and out reject Trump on Election Night 2020, foreshadowing a complete rejection of Trump, I knew we were in for a rough ride - this is exactly who far too many of us are, and Hillary was being polite just calling them deplorable.
That is right. None are. They're the ones fearful of change, clinging to Trump for power against it and against us who are either going along with or celebrating the changes they fear, so they are not going to. Acording to Stenner, they can't get beyond where they are. It's their enduring personality trait.
But she's not so much advocating that we who are not fearful of change reach out to them as she is cooling down the progressive rhetoric, "avoiding a loud and provocative display of stances and messaging that unnecessarily aggravates authoritarians." Not so much reaching out as accomodating them. "The progressive policy agenda shouldnтАЩt be amended; it should simply be promoted more subtly."
Among the magnificent Republican caucus-goers in my own State of Iowa, a whopping 42% of them said that Trump's comments regarding immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation made them want to support him MOAR.
Trump: *does some Nazi talking*
GOP electorate: HELL YEAH!
Like... I don't even know what to say at this point. Trump's would-be dictatorial fascism isn't a bug to the Republican electorate anymore; it's a straight up feature.
There are a lot of people out there, and not just in the South, who have this fixed image of America, that is not real. In their neighborhoods, they want white, Christian, heterosexual people. And in many areas that exists, though not a 100%. It hurts their brains to think out of the box. A neighbor of mine lived by slogans. I don't how many times a day she would let people know that, "she was guided by 3 values, God, Country and Family." Whatever that meant.
Because it's a voter problem
If he were to shoot finally shoot someone on 5th Avenue, they would carry him on their shoulders to the White House. The perverseness is gobsmacking.
Especially if the person was Latino.
It wouldn't matter even if the person he shot was a white Trump cultist.
I think this is actually something to start shouting to the rooftops. Start tying the Republican party ever closer to Trump and his fascist shit. Then start campaigning against it not with facts, figures, history, etc., but with what the American people will understand. Use phrases like, "Walks like a duck, talks like a duck..." and "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining."
Couple that with some nods to WWII and some cultural references. Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Indiana Jones line about hating Nazi's, Blues Brothers, etc. This country has a deep tradition of believing itself to be anti-nazi. Pull on that as we use 'common sense' to tie Trump and the Republicans to Nazis by the very words they use.
They probably would think that putting non white, non Christians in camps or deporting them would not be a horrible idea. They might not say it out loud.
That's why you don't go down the rabbit hole of specifics. Nazis = bad. Trump quoting lines from Mein Kampf. That's it. Don't go any deeper than that. No arguments or discussions on particulars of policy or anything else. Just a flat out, "Trump's a Nazi, and all real Americans know that Nazis are evil."
Nazis have been the universal bad guys of the 20th century, surpassed, perhaps, only by zombie Nazis. No matter your politics, except for a few deplorables, we could all agree the fascism and antisemitism were bad. How did we found ourselves in this place?
Great idea, by the way, of framing things in terms of pop-culture references. WWIJD (What would Indiana Jones do?)
WWIJD?
I don't know, I think he just makes it up as he goes.
He'd fight the Nazis, that's for damn sure.
I was semi-quoting one of Indy's lines from Raiders.
"I don't know. I'm making this up as I go." - Indiana Jones
Excellent - American movies, not facts, is what the vast majority of Americans will understand.
Plus start blustering a bit past Marquis of Queensbury rules. Trump's denial about reading Mein Kampf is a perfect example. It isn't something to debate, to try and prove or disprove, etc. Just say, "I honestly don't care whether he came up with that Nazi bullshit from reading the book or all on his own, it is flat out Un-American."
Yes, that's the pitch. UnAmerican.
My family has German roots. Many relocated to, you guessed it, IOWA.
Granted that generations ago, but not so much that they can't see history. And walk around the cemetery of my grandparents--- there many Adolph gravestones, not so many in the past 100 years.
What's hard to tell is how much is sincere fascism and how much is lib-owning.
I'm with Jonah Goldberg on this. He said he didn't believe in his heart of hearts Trump WANTS to be a dictator, but he listens to people who flatter him - Stephen Miller, Bannon, Roger Stone, etc. - and they want him to be a dictator. He's all about llb-owning.
They are the fascists.
Poor Donald. He is just being led astray by his advisers. There's a remote chance I would be sympathetic if all those advisers were forced on him. He sure seems to pick and keep a lot of authoritarian advisers for someone who does not want to be a dictator.
Jonah just wants to pretend that somehow Trump's character was not completely known from long before he came down the escalator.
It's not that he does or doesn't want to be, it's that he has no political ideology other than punishing people he doesn't like. Jonah knows Trump is a sociopath. He has no character. He just wants power over people to get what he wants.
disagree - presuming tr-mp has a heart, within it he wants to (continue to) be a dictator - been one in his life so far, why would he not want now? (does he have the capacity to not want to be dictator, to grok anything else?)
Trump has always admired strongmen, and envied what they have. Once in office, submitting to the indignities required of a democratic leader became beneath what he considered due to him. Do you remember some joke he made to Putin, when, indicating the press, he said theyтАЩd soon be singing another tune if they lived under PutinтАЩs system? It was the true word spoken in jest, like so many of TrumpтАЩs little pleasantries. Only his pathological laziness, and the determination of certain members of his staff to distract, cajole, or otherwise discreetly retrain him, kept his dangerousness under restraint the first time. The second time, heтАЩll have personnel ready to make sure he is never insulted by his countryтАЩs rejection again.
He may not want to be a dictator in his child-like mind, but I do believe he wants to use the power of the state to punish those he thinks need punishing. He isn't bright enough to realize the connection.
Oh, yes, certainly.
I have a feeling there was a lot of that in Germany and Italy too. Upsetting the bien-pensants, do-gooders, and effete intellectuals has always thrilled some of the "booboisie."
We keep saying, "This isn't who we are as Americans." The Super-Dark JVL on my shoulder says, "No, this is EXACTLY who we are -- or at least, a very sizable chunk of us." It is instructive to remember that many Americans stood with the Nazis. The Nazis held a freaking rally at Madison Square Garden for f's sake in 1939. Behold the horrifying image of George Washington, the American flag, and the swastika next to each other at MSG here.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan
"At Madison Square Garden, the rally opened with the Pledge of Allegiance to the American flag. The mood was jubilant. Attendees wore Nazi armbands, waved American flags and held aloft posters with slogans like "Stop Jewish Domination of Christian America." There were storm troopers in the aisles, their uniforms almost identical to those of Nazi Germany. "It looked like any political rally тАФ only with a Nazi twist," said Arnie Bernstein, author of Swastika Nation.
The speeches were explicitly anti-Semitic, and tirades against "job-taking Jewish refugees" were met with thunderous applause. "They demanded a white gentile America. They denounced Roosevelt as 'Rosenfeld,' to say that Roosevelt was in the pocket of rich Jews," said Sarah Churchwell, author of Behold, America. In equal measure to the xenophobia, the speeches were loaded with American boosterism."
Seems pretty MAGA to me...
Replace the Swastikas with Red Hats (or just leave the swastikas- no difference anyway) and youтАЩve got any and every Trump Rally 2015, 2016, 2019, 2020, 2023 2024. Americans as a group are entitled, ignorant and at a base level, pretty damn bigoted. They were in 1859, they were in 1939, and they are today. Oh, and I have had one simple answer for so many burning questions posed by JVL about тАШmericans, and here it comes; тАШmericans are pretty fтАЩn stupid.
Isadore Greenbaum deserves the medal of freedom on that night. ЁЯТФ
As bad and deplorable as all that was, the US hadn't gone to war with Nazi Germany yet. I don't look fondly at the attendees, but I reckon many of their opinions regarding the Nazi Party changed a few years later. What I can't reconcile with is that the GOP electorate should freaking know better now, since they can't claim ignorance.
Yes, American attitudes and policies changed a few years later, but why? I would argue that Americans rejected GermanyтАЩs military ambitions (soundly) but less that there was a massive change of heart relative to Jewish people. Antisemitism survived WWII even if the Nazi party did not.
When Florida didnтАЩt out and out reject Trump on Election Night 2020, foreshadowing a complete rejection of Trump, I knew we were in for a rough ride - this is exactly who far too many of us are, and Hillary was being polite just calling them deplorable.
Oh, but Ben Ginsberg just said yesterday we should be "reaching out" to them. ЁЯдм
I don't know how Ginsberg put it, but I agree. Political psychologist Karen Stenner makes the point that the authoritarian disposition is an enduring component of humanity and as a democracy, we have to learn how to manage some peopleтАЩs innate fears of change. See "How to Live With Authoritarians" (https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/11/capitol-insurrection-trump-authoritarianism-psychology-innate-fear-envy-change-diversity-populism/#cookie_message_anchor).
I don't see ANYONE in maga reaching out to us?
That is right. None are. They're the ones fearful of change, clinging to Trump for power against it and against us who are either going along with or celebrating the changes they fear, so they are not going to. Acording to Stenner, they can't get beyond where they are. It's their enduring personality trait.
But she's not so much advocating that we who are not fearful of change reach out to them as she is cooling down the progressive rhetoric, "avoiding a loud and provocative display of stances and messaging that unnecessarily aggravates authoritarians." Not so much reaching out as accomodating them. "The progressive policy agenda shouldnтАЩt be amended; it should simply be promoted more subtly."
ЁЯШРЁЯШТ