Also overlooked (as another commenter mentioned) is 30 years of right wing lies and propaganda about the Democrats. I came from the poor/working class. I have relatives who are working class. I don’t look down on these people because they didn’t go to college and work with their hands. I do despair that they pay more attention to football than the news and that they hear things from their friends and neighbors and then regurgitate the lies.
It doesn’t help that people like Charlie insists on chatting with people who don’t like Dems (as much as he really doesn’t) like Joe Klein and Ruy, who might once have actually been a Dem and probably still thinks of himself as one--but has found a new home at the American Enterprise Institute. Come on.
The right has never cared about the working class except for their votes. The right commentators supporting the GOP for years have stoked these people’s fears of everything, yet their actual policies (when they had them) worked directly against these same working class folk. So please stop with the sanctimonious lecturing.
When a check-out clerk at Target tells me we are in a recession--which we aren’t and I’m sure she doesn’t even know what the means--that isn’t the Dems’ fault. It’s what the Dems have to battle against.
How informationally literate do you think that check-out clerk at Target is? Like I said, one of the downsides of democracy is that it incorporates the votes of many people who don't have the time and/or the informational literacy to be able to put the full empirical data picture together, and as a result, they decide with their gut more than they do with their minds because they themselves understand that their methodology in deriving the wholistic empirical picture won't result in the truth, so they lean on *narratives* (simplistic explanations) from people they trust personally to explain to them why they're living through what they're living through. So when the GOP and conservative friends comes to them with narratives while the dems come to them with data and statistics they don't trust (again, see the book "how to lie using statistics"), they believe the conservative narratives that sync up with their lived experiences more than they trust liberals citing statistics who *want* them to shrug off their lived experiences in order to keep their favored incumbent in the reelected column. Dems and liberals need to work on their economic narrative game and get it to sync up with the lived experiences of the working class if they want to win more working class voters.
For an example of stats being used to wave away lived experiences, imagine dems running around in the years between 2012-2021 telling black people that a handful of videos of police killing unarmed black suspects should be waived off because these very real statistics show that racism and racial violence isn't nearly as bad now as it used to be. It would sound tone deaf and it wouldn't sync up with the lived experiences of black people, even if those stats on racism and racial violence were true right? That's what liberals and anti-Trumpers telling the working class that the economy is actually good right now sound like to the working class who have a very different lived experience to the selective stats being cited.
No one is denying their “lived experience.” Prices went up for sure. I feel it every time I am at the grocery store. The Dems are trying to address this with the tools (and legislatures) they have. In PA, Gov Shapiro has removed the requirement of a college degree for many state jobs and made breakfast free for school age children. The Dems are pushing to increase the min wage, make permanent the child tax credit, passed an infrastructure bill that puts working people to work, bring down drug prices for seniors, and are trying to walk the fine line between transitioning to green, preserving current jobs, and helping workers get trained for the new jobs that are coming.
Dem leaders aren’t the ones who passed right to work laws, aren’t the ones driving people from education with strict bans and directives, among many other things that hurt the working class and poor. Why didn’t Charlie and Ruy talk about that? No, it’s much more satisfying to bash and embrace the tired tropes. If we Dems aren’t being “condescending to the working class” then we are all “too woke and focused on identity politics” or we are just “out of touch limousine liberals.”
Where on earth would this young woman have gotten the idea we are in a recession but from the media, and especially RW propaganda, that even if she doesn’t listen to the news, she hears from friends or sees a headline or views in a chyron in a fast food joint with a tv on. If we were in a recession she wouldn’t have a job. But I guess if I tell her that I’m denying her lived experience.
The GOP doesn’t offer these folks narratives. They feed them lies that make them believe the worst—the Dems are turning the country over to illegals who are taking your job! The economy is terrible because the rich Dems are stealing from you to give to “those” people—that’s why you feel poor!
My point is Ruy and Charlie aren’t really offering solutions. They’re just furthering the whole Dems suck line.
Yea, that's the one shortcoming from Charlie and Ruy, they're not offering solutions other than "stop doing what you're doing." I tried offering a few here, but they probably won't happen. It's like the old workplace saying goes "don't point out problems if you don't have a solution."
Did you hear Charlie call Ruy a "progressive Democrat"? I almost fell out of my chair laughing. The guy works at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, for god's sake.
Ruy and Charlie brush off the needs of the "working class" to concentrate on the WHITE working class, like most conservatives. Except POC are 45% of the working class.
Charlie and Ruy failed to mention that much of the infrastructure money is going to red districts in the form of jobs, new construction, battery plants, etc - districts that are majority white.
So how is it Biden and Democrats are "ignoring" white working class voters?
Also overlooked (as another commenter mentioned) is 30 years of right wing lies and propaganda about the Democrats. I came from the poor/working class. I have relatives who are working class. I don’t look down on these people because they didn’t go to college and work with their hands. I do despair that they pay more attention to football than the news and that they hear things from their friends and neighbors and then regurgitate the lies.
It doesn’t help that people like Charlie insists on chatting with people who don’t like Dems (as much as he really doesn’t) like Joe Klein and Ruy, who might once have actually been a Dem and probably still thinks of himself as one--but has found a new home at the American Enterprise Institute. Come on.
The right has never cared about the working class except for their votes. The right commentators supporting the GOP for years have stoked these people’s fears of everything, yet their actual policies (when they had them) worked directly against these same working class folk. So please stop with the sanctimonious lecturing.
When a check-out clerk at Target tells me we are in a recession--which we aren’t and I’m sure she doesn’t even know what the means--that isn’t the Dems’ fault. It’s what the Dems have to battle against.
How informationally literate do you think that check-out clerk at Target is? Like I said, one of the downsides of democracy is that it incorporates the votes of many people who don't have the time and/or the informational literacy to be able to put the full empirical data picture together, and as a result, they decide with their gut more than they do with their minds because they themselves understand that their methodology in deriving the wholistic empirical picture won't result in the truth, so they lean on *narratives* (simplistic explanations) from people they trust personally to explain to them why they're living through what they're living through. So when the GOP and conservative friends comes to them with narratives while the dems come to them with data and statistics they don't trust (again, see the book "how to lie using statistics"), they believe the conservative narratives that sync up with their lived experiences more than they trust liberals citing statistics who *want* them to shrug off their lived experiences in order to keep their favored incumbent in the reelected column. Dems and liberals need to work on their economic narrative game and get it to sync up with the lived experiences of the working class if they want to win more working class voters.
For an example of stats being used to wave away lived experiences, imagine dems running around in the years between 2012-2021 telling black people that a handful of videos of police killing unarmed black suspects should be waived off because these very real statistics show that racism and racial violence isn't nearly as bad now as it used to be. It would sound tone deaf and it wouldn't sync up with the lived experiences of black people, even if those stats on racism and racial violence were true right? That's what liberals and anti-Trumpers telling the working class that the economy is actually good right now sound like to the working class who have a very different lived experience to the selective stats being cited.
No one is denying their “lived experience.” Prices went up for sure. I feel it every time I am at the grocery store. The Dems are trying to address this with the tools (and legislatures) they have. In PA, Gov Shapiro has removed the requirement of a college degree for many state jobs and made breakfast free for school age children. The Dems are pushing to increase the min wage, make permanent the child tax credit, passed an infrastructure bill that puts working people to work, bring down drug prices for seniors, and are trying to walk the fine line between transitioning to green, preserving current jobs, and helping workers get trained for the new jobs that are coming.
Dem leaders aren’t the ones who passed right to work laws, aren’t the ones driving people from education with strict bans and directives, among many other things that hurt the working class and poor. Why didn’t Charlie and Ruy talk about that? No, it’s much more satisfying to bash and embrace the tired tropes. If we Dems aren’t being “condescending to the working class” then we are all “too woke and focused on identity politics” or we are just “out of touch limousine liberals.”
Where on earth would this young woman have gotten the idea we are in a recession but from the media, and especially RW propaganda, that even if she doesn’t listen to the news, she hears from friends or sees a headline or views in a chyron in a fast food joint with a tv on. If we were in a recession she wouldn’t have a job. But I guess if I tell her that I’m denying her lived experience.
The GOP doesn’t offer these folks narratives. They feed them lies that make them believe the worst—the Dems are turning the country over to illegals who are taking your job! The economy is terrible because the rich Dems are stealing from you to give to “those” people—that’s why you feel poor!
My point is Ruy and Charlie aren’t really offering solutions. They’re just furthering the whole Dems suck line.
Yea, that's the one shortcoming from Charlie and Ruy, they're not offering solutions other than "stop doing what you're doing." I tried offering a few here, but they probably won't happen. It's like the old workplace saying goes "don't point out problems if you don't have a solution."
Did you hear Charlie call Ruy a "progressive Democrat"? I almost fell out of my chair laughing. The guy works at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, for god's sake.
Ruy and Charlie brush off the needs of the "working class" to concentrate on the WHITE working class, like most conservatives. Except POC are 45% of the working class.
Charlie and Ruy failed to mention that much of the infrastructure money is going to red districts in the form of jobs, new construction, battery plants, etc - districts that are majority white.
So how is it Biden and Democrats are "ignoring" white working class voters?
Ruy and Tulsi Gabbard pretty much serve the same function.
Well said