The Israeli brutality in Gaza has created more Hamas supporters in Gaza and around the world than there ever were before. BTW - I am not a Hamas supporter, tho I'm sure you will assume that I am because I have the temerity to criticize the actions of Israel.
Yet another example of historical ignorance. Even if you accept Hamas's numbers regarding casualties, which count their own terrorists as civilians and are likely inflated by a factor of two, the civilian casualties are remarkably low compared to most other urban conflicts of the past century. By your standards the Allies would have had to stand down against Nazi Germany and Japan in WW2 because defeating them killed too many civilians.
Gazans celebrated the death, cruelty and genocide exhibited on Oct 7th. They continue to celebrate and support Hamas. They have no desire to live side-by-side with Israel and jews, they wish to wipe them off the map. Israel is justified in the actions they've taken and it would end tomorrow if Hamas handed over the hostages! They bring this on their own people and the blood and responsibility lies at their feet
To quote Peter Beinart in "Being a Jew after the Destruction of Gaza":
"I still believe in the metaphor of Jews as a family. But it has been corrupted. Jewish leaders have turned our commitment to one another into a moral sedative. They have traded on our solidarity to justify starvation and slaughter. They have told us that the way we show we care about the Israelis taken hostage by Hamas is to support a war that kills and starves those very hostages, and that the way to honor the memory of the Israelis Hamas murdered is to support a war that will create tens of thousands more scarred, desperate young Palestinians eager to avenge their loved ones by taking Israeli lives. We need a new story--based on equality rather than supremacy--because the current one doesn't endanger only Palestinians. It endangers us."
And Beinart is no liberal squish, he's a former editor of The New Republic and editor-at-large at Jewish Currents.
I once thought of Beinart as a thoughtful thinker about Israeli-Palestinian issues. But over the last few years he has moved his opinions into favoring a quasi federated "one state solution" in which Jews and Arabs will share what is the current majority Jewish State of Israel. He's entitled to his opinion, but let's not pretend he represents anything other than a distinct minority position of Jewish Americans when it comes to Israel. And for the record Jewish Currents, while interesting, is a progressive publication. Suggesting it is in any way part of mainstream American Jewish thought is disingenuous at best.
Sorry Peter..the long arm of history is against you..the Jews escaped to Egypt and then they came back..they were sent to Babylon and they came back..the Romans scattered them after the second rebellion and then they came back…the Germans gassed them and they came back. They will defend their home. And every Ten years the Palestinians will try again.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Because the people of Gaza are very much aware that there’s something Hamas could do that would end all this immediately: surrender and release the hostages.
It would be the rational thing to do. They’ve picked a fight with a hopelessly superior enemy, have no chance of victory, and their entire plan is to sit in tunnels while their people suffer above ground, take no responsibility for what is happening and pretend Israel started all this, steal the bulk of the humanitarian aid sent in, and then prepare to declare a perverse victory just by not having all died while their senior leadership profits handsomely from Iran’s largesse sent their way from safety in Qatar.
The people of Gaza aren’t blind. They know their misery is being used as foil by Hamas, and they do not love their erstwhile masters for it.
I'll give you a historical example. In WWII, Nazi commanders would execute a dozen random civilians in a village for every German solder killed by resistance fighters in that village.
The "appropriate" response would have been to identify the actual culprit and punish the resistance operative for espionage (operating in enemy territory without a uniform violates the rules of war).
Now, do you think the villagers held the resistance fighters morally responsible for the execution of their peers? Or the Nazi commanders?
The Israeli brutality in Gaza has created more Hamas supporters in Gaza and around the world than there ever were before. BTW - I am not a Hamas supporter, tho I'm sure you will assume that I am because I have the temerity to criticize the actions of Israel.
Yet another example of historical ignorance. Even if you accept Hamas's numbers regarding casualties, which count their own terrorists as civilians and are likely inflated by a factor of two, the civilian casualties are remarkably low compared to most other urban conflicts of the past century. By your standards the Allies would have had to stand down against Nazi Germany and Japan in WW2 because defeating them killed too many civilians.
Gazans celebrated the death, cruelty and genocide exhibited on Oct 7th. They continue to celebrate and support Hamas. They have no desire to live side-by-side with Israel and jews, they wish to wipe them off the map. Israel is justified in the actions they've taken and it would end tomorrow if Hamas handed over the hostages! They bring this on their own people and the blood and responsibility lies at their feet
To quote Peter Beinart in "Being a Jew after the Destruction of Gaza":
"I still believe in the metaphor of Jews as a family. But it has been corrupted. Jewish leaders have turned our commitment to one another into a moral sedative. They have traded on our solidarity to justify starvation and slaughter. They have told us that the way we show we care about the Israelis taken hostage by Hamas is to support a war that kills and starves those very hostages, and that the way to honor the memory of the Israelis Hamas murdered is to support a war that will create tens of thousands more scarred, desperate young Palestinians eager to avenge their loved ones by taking Israeli lives. We need a new story--based on equality rather than supremacy--because the current one doesn't endanger only Palestinians. It endangers us."
And Beinart is no liberal squish, he's a former editor of The New Republic and editor-at-large at Jewish Currents.
I once thought of Beinart as a thoughtful thinker about Israeli-Palestinian issues. But over the last few years he has moved his opinions into favoring a quasi federated "one state solution" in which Jews and Arabs will share what is the current majority Jewish State of Israel. He's entitled to his opinion, but let's not pretend he represents anything other than a distinct minority position of Jewish Americans when it comes to Israel. And for the record Jewish Currents, while interesting, is a progressive publication. Suggesting it is in any way part of mainstream American Jewish thought is disingenuous at best.
Not that you care, but the vast majority of us Jews think Beinart is a disgusting little "token Jew" troll.
Beinart is not a liberal squish, although he used to be. He is now a far left anti-Zionist activist.
Sorry Peter..the long arm of history is against you..the Jews escaped to Egypt and then they came back..they were sent to Babylon and they came back..the Romans scattered them after the second rebellion and then they came back…the Germans gassed them and they came back. They will defend their home. And every Ten years the Palestinians will try again.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Because the people of Gaza are very much aware that there’s something Hamas could do that would end all this immediately: surrender and release the hostages.
It would be the rational thing to do. They’ve picked a fight with a hopelessly superior enemy, have no chance of victory, and their entire plan is to sit in tunnels while their people suffer above ground, take no responsibility for what is happening and pretend Israel started all this, steal the bulk of the humanitarian aid sent in, and then prepare to declare a perverse victory just by not having all died while their senior leadership profits handsomely from Iran’s largesse sent their way from safety in Qatar.
The people of Gaza aren’t blind. They know their misery is being used as foil by Hamas, and they do not love their erstwhile masters for it.
I wouldn't be so sure about that reaction.
I'll give you a historical example. In WWII, Nazi commanders would execute a dozen random civilians in a village for every German solder killed by resistance fighters in that village.
The "appropriate" response would have been to identify the actual culprit and punish the resistance operative for espionage (operating in enemy territory without a uniform violates the rules of war).
Now, do you think the villagers held the resistance fighters morally responsible for the execution of their peers? Or the Nazi commanders?
That is a great analogy. Try out this one:
During WWII over 25000 non Jews in Europe risked their lives to save Jews.
SInce Oct 7th, not a single Palestinian has lifted a finger to help the hostages.
Now, do you think the Palestinian civilians or European civilians hold more moral responsibility for the torture and starvation of those hostages?