The great barrier with Kelly being effective is that the electorate can't tell the difference between the character of a John Kelly and, say, the character of Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
What would Trump supporters do with the cognitive dissonance produced when the leader of a flag waving political movement is revealed to have called our war dead "losers" and "suckers?" They will simply refuse to believe it, and the mental gymnastics will involve believing that John Kelly is somehow corrupt.
Yes, everyone is corrupt *except* Trump, who has been chosen by The Divine to "save" America. I wouldn't trust these people to operate a crayon, let alone vote.
I don't think they feel the cognitive dissonance. To them war produces guys with a chest full of medals. But thinking about the dead, the maimed, and those whose PTSD is very obvious makes them feel all icky inside, so they avoid thinking about that part entirely. Sort of like WW II movies...heroes. The only one that dealt with the aftermath in any accurate way was The Best Years of Our Lives in 1946. They skip over the Vietnam War movies as too icky.
MAGAs will always find a way to justify it, while the finest Trumpite thinkers say "Pay no attention to what he says! .... judges! .... woke tyranny! .... the Democrats are Marxists! .... This is our last chance to save America from the left!"
I once got into a discussion about the stolen election and was told that "2000 Mules" proved that it was stolen. As part of my response, I noted that even Bill Barr thought it was "unimpressive". That's when I found out that Barr is a member of the Deep State. If it can happen to Bill Barr, it can certainly happen to John Kelly.
Many donтАЩt know or donтАЩt believe the true reports of his character defects. TheyтАЩve been conditioned to believe the attacks and reports are exaggerations and lies.
That doesn't mean they're off the hook, Stephen. We have 50+ years of documentation that shows Trump is a wretched piece of filth. If these people are ignorant to those facts, that's because they're choosing to be so. My own theory is they support Trump just to piss people off and they don't care about the danger that he poses to our national and global security.
In my opinion, you're underestimating how effective Trump and his media allies have been at discrediting what they call the mainstream media. If its in the New York Times, its false.
Oh, I don't underestimate it at all, Lewis. I simply people that these people want to be lied to because that way, they're not responsible for their choices. Keep in mind that Trump's more egregious public moments -- like calling for Mark Milley's execution, or the termination of the Constitution -- happened on Truth Social and is part of the public record. Has he lost any support for those comments amongst the base?
Trumpler and media allies think American people are stupid - information-challenged, prone to conspiracy theories, easily manipulated, having cultish behavior.
Hmm, what to do about it as reach the edge of cliff, after watching our democracy slip away one day at a time for 8+ years...?
And, I think that because all they know/have experienced is America as a democracy/republic/whatever, because it appears to be stable, they think it is a feature of nature and can not change. And even if tRump gets back in, with all the attendant slime and freaks, that everything will just keep merrily going along.
People who are conditioned to follow faith instead of facts, are dangerous to any democracy. ThatтАЩs why the wolves are so suddenly fond of Christianity as a weapon.
I have felt for a long time that the more fundamentally religious you are, the less you are on the side of democracy. For democracy requires compromise, a willingness to listen to other views, and admitting that you donтАЩt have all the answers. None of those things describe people who are steeped in fundamentalist religions. Their views boil down to these two things: (1) they believe they know what the rules are, and (2) they donтАЩt believe they are allowed to change the rules.
My brother has stopped talking to me since he became a fundamentalist. Not at first. He tried for years to get me and my husband and kids on board his totally fundamentalist train. Finally gave up and won't speak to us anymore. His wife occasionally calls from a pay phone.
One thing I wonder; why is religiosity causing so much division now, here? Especially as we have become more secular as a nation, according to polling data. I can only assume itтАЩs something about Trumpism which is so counterintuitive considering what an ungodly specimen he is, not even attempting to mask his hateful thoughts. It must be a fluke convergence of forces I donтАЩt understand.
MAGAs have always said that critics are swallowing "media narratives" about Trump -- even when people can play the videos that show him displaying his wretched character all by himself,
Trump voters are obviously not much offended by the manifest awfulness. Trump fans clearly love the awfulness.
There's no better example of this than Trump's Evangelical supporters. It was only a few years ago that the "moral character" of the President was paramount. Lack of "moral character" was almost an impeachable offense. Now, they view "moral character" as so 1998.
If Kelly had character, he wouldnтАЩt have taken the chief-of-staff job. He and we all knew very well at that point what the Orange Pustule was all about.
Right? Kelly et al just sound bitter and whiny. Now that they've been kicked off the gravy train, they want to "tell all" that happened on said train. The "half day bounce" was the shelf life of his book.
They love it because they are narrow minded suckers that hope he will hurt the people they hate. They don't really care about the troops, only that if they fight, they must win, to make us feel like winners. The wounded and dead ARE losers because they aren't Rambo or GIJoe.
Exactly. All the Republican insiders who have privately (or not so privately) trashed Trump must come out publicly and in some coordinated fashion to say loud and clear: 1) how bad he is and the threat that he poses and 2) state that everyone who loves their country and reveres the Constitution should vote for any non-Trumpy Republican in the primary and for Biden if in fact the choice in the general is Trump v Biden.
That we are in an emergency situation, desperate times etc.
Elaborate that preserving our stability, prosperity, and peace as a nation in the short-term requires this, after which rebuilding the Republican party and working to identify a non-fascist candidate who respects the Constitution to compete in 2028 can commence.
This will not move most of the base, but will give the Republican voters who don't like Trump but despise Dems enough doubts along with the permission structure to at least stay home. It could very well make the difference.
Yes it's time for him to get out there and spill the beans, all of them. I am sure he has been witness to much more depravity, treason and illegality than he's said so far. That would truly fulfill his oath to serve his country.
So get off your ass and join the campaign, Kelly. Bring Mattis and the others with you.
The great barrier with Kelly being effective is that the electorate can't tell the difference between the character of a John Kelly and, say, the character of Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
I think a simpler explanation is the electorate doesn't care about character. If it did, Trump wouldn't have been elected in 2016.
What would Trump supporters do with the cognitive dissonance produced when the leader of a flag waving political movement is revealed to have called our war dead "losers" and "suckers?" They will simply refuse to believe it, and the mental gymnastics will involve believing that John Kelly is somehow corrupt.
Yes, everyone is corrupt *except* Trump, who has been chosen by The Divine to "save" America. I wouldn't trust these people to operate a crayon, let alone vote.
That made me spit out my coffee! You nailed it!
I don't think they feel the cognitive dissonance. To them war produces guys with a chest full of medals. But thinking about the dead, the maimed, and those whose PTSD is very obvious makes them feel all icky inside, so they avoid thinking about that part entirely. Sort of like WW II movies...heroes. The only one that dealt with the aftermath in any accurate way was The Best Years of Our Lives in 1946. They skip over the Vietnam War movies as too icky.
You got that right.
MAGAs will always find a way to justify it, while the finest Trumpite thinkers say "Pay no attention to what he says! .... judges! .... woke tyranny! .... the Democrats are Marxists! .... This is our last chance to save America from the left!"
I once got into a discussion about the stolen election and was told that "2000 Mules" proved that it was stolen. As part of my response, I noted that even Bill Barr thought it was "unimpressive". That's when I found out that Barr is a member of the Deep State. If it can happen to Bill Barr, it can certainly happen to John Kelly.
My retired military officer family members love him. They hate their former congresswoman, Liz Cheney.
That is so weird. My formerly Navy son regards TFG as a traitor to the oath to the Constitution which he also swore to, and still feels bound by.
Why??
Cognitive dissonanceтАж
Many donтАЩt know or donтАЩt believe the true reports of his character defects. TheyтАЩve been conditioned to believe the attacks and reports are exaggerations and lies.
That doesn't mean they're off the hook, Stephen. We have 50+ years of documentation that shows Trump is a wretched piece of filth. If these people are ignorant to those facts, that's because they're choosing to be so. My own theory is they support Trump just to piss people off and they don't care about the danger that he poses to our national and global security.
In my opinion, you're underestimating how effective Trump and his media allies have been at discrediting what they call the mainstream media. If its in the New York Times, its false.
Oh, I don't underestimate it at all, Lewis. I simply people that these people want to be lied to because that way, they're not responsible for their choices. Keep in mind that Trump's more egregious public moments -- like calling for Mark Milley's execution, or the termination of the Constitution -- happened on Truth Social and is part of the public record. Has he lost any support for those comments amongst the base?
Also,"you gonna believe your lying eyes or me". Trump 2020
Trumpler and media allies think American people are stupid - information-challenged, prone to conspiracy theories, easily manipulated, having cultish behavior.
Hmm, what to do about it as reach the edge of cliff, after watching our democracy slip away one day at a time for 8+ years...?
And, I think that because all they know/have experienced is America as a democracy/republic/whatever, because it appears to be stable, they think it is a feature of nature and can not change. And even if tRump gets back in, with all the attendant slime and freaks, that everything will just keep merrily going along.
Even of Trump gets the US to fight along side Russia to capture all of Eastern Europe.
Sometimes I feel like we're living in an episode of The Twilight Zone.
I am stealing "their complete loserness" from you.
Just so you know=:-)
Omg, truth is so hard to bear.
Going over a cliff in a slow motion...ЁЯШ▒
People who are conditioned to follow faith instead of facts, are dangerous to any democracy. ThatтАЩs why the wolves are so suddenly fond of Christianity as a weapon.
One word ;cult.
Once again, right on GG.
Evidenced by unending trouble in Middle East.
Religion, religious extremism, amplifies ignorance, controls & divides people, causes warsтАж
I have felt for a long time that the more fundamentally religious you are, the less you are on the side of democracy. For democracy requires compromise, a willingness to listen to other views, and admitting that you donтАЩt have all the answers. None of those things describe people who are steeped in fundamentalist religions. Their views boil down to these two things: (1) they believe they know what the rules are, and (2) they donтАЩt believe they are allowed to change the rules.
My brother has stopped talking to me since he became a fundamentalist. Not at first. He tried for years to get me and my husband and kids on board his totally fundamentalist train. Finally gave up and won't speak to us anymore. His wife occasionally calls from a pay phone.
One thing I wonder; why is religiosity causing so much division now, here? Especially as we have become more secular as a nation, according to polling data. I can only assume itтАЩs something about Trumpism which is so counterintuitive considering what an ungodly specimen he is, not even attempting to mask his hateful thoughts. It must be a fluke convergence of forces I donтАЩt understand.
MAGAs have always said that critics are swallowing "media narratives" about Trump -- even when people can play the videos that show him displaying his wretched character all by himself,
Trump voters are obviously not much offended by the manifest awfulness. Trump fans clearly love the awfulness.
Amplifying and harnessing grievance, resentment, anger, hate. Just like HitlerтАж
There's no better example of this than Trump's Evangelical supporters. It was only a few years ago that the "moral character" of the President was paramount. Lack of "moral character" was almost an impeachable offense. Now, they view "moral character" as so 1998.
If Kelly had character, he wouldnтАЩt have taken the chief-of-staff job. He and we all knew very well at that point what the Orange Pustule was all about.
Right? Kelly et al just sound bitter and whiny. Now that they've been kicked off the gravy train, they want to "tell all" that happened on said train. The "half day bounce" was the shelf life of his book.
They love it because they are narrow minded suckers that hope he will hurt the people they hate. They don't really care about the troops, only that if they fight, they must win, to make us feel like winners. The wounded and dead ARE losers because they aren't Rambo or GIJoe.
To be fair, I don't think there is a lot of daylight in the character of those two. Both are just appalling.
Exactly. All the Republican insiders who have privately (or not so privately) trashed Trump must come out publicly and in some coordinated fashion to say loud and clear: 1) how bad he is and the threat that he poses and 2) state that everyone who loves their country and reveres the Constitution should vote for any non-Trumpy Republican in the primary and for Biden if in fact the choice in the general is Trump v Biden.
That we are in an emergency situation, desperate times etc.
Elaborate that preserving our stability, prosperity, and peace as a nation in the short-term requires this, after which rebuilding the Republican party and working to identify a non-fascist candidate who respects the Constitution to compete in 2028 can commence.
This will not move most of the base, but will give the Republican voters who don't like Trump but despise Dems enough doubts along with the permission structure to at least stay home. It could very well make the difference.
Yes it's time for him to get out there and spill the beans, all of them. I am sure he has been witness to much more depravity, treason and illegality than he's said so far. That would truly fulfill his oath to serve his country.
That's coming in his follow up memoir
You aren't suggesting he spills the beans for free are you? /s lol