I hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump's going to get away with this, too. And the reason why is because his supporters are morally degraded and would rather have a pedophile in the White House than your median Democrat. Even if there is 100% proof that Trump engaged in the worst possible stuff we can imagine, do you even doubt that someone like Catturd will land on "pedophilia is good"? Or his more religious supporters will describe pedophilia as the "natural order of things" because it establishes the dominion of man over women and children?
No, but I think that there are a lot of normies who support Trump that are not full MAGA might stay home if this stays in the news in 2026.
The red caps I think will honestly need to eat Trump's sin on this one too. Full Trumpists, like the folks who have gone to multiple rallies, they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time. Since they already do not have a rational or empirical worldview, it's not hard to and it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being.
But like, the normal folks who just wanted inflation down and thought Trump might do businessman-stuff to make the country better? They didn't sign up for this.
I would argue they did sign up for this. They saw the Access Hollywood stuff in 2016. They knew Trump was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll last year. So they gave themselves permission to vote for a morally compromised man because they thought they'd get something out of it.
I don't think median voters are that engaged, certainly not nearly as much as the average paid subscriber to the Bulwark.
Especially in this age of algorithmic social media bubbles, and 54% of Americans reporting now they get their news from facebook (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/), there are people who literally just don't care about politics and turned out to vote in 2024, maybe for the first time in a decade, because they were mad about inflation.
They aren't engaged or engaged as much as Fox News will let them be - seriously. I am around a lot of non-MAGA that voted for Trump like they voted for Fox-driven Presidential candidates since Fox came into being. Epstein situation, not even on the radar right now for them
They believe all of the trials and cases were politically motivated and the mainstream media helped the RW propaganda machine muddy the waters for normies as well. It's why the polls basically had people shrugging over them, even though they were legitimate cases!
Funny how every accusation against Trump is "politically motivated". I think it's a way for his supporters to avoid taking responsibility for their votes. Personally, MAP, I'm at the point where I agree with what Jeff wrote somewhere in this thread: if voters don't renounce their support of Trump, it is because they are either sympathetic towards pedophiles or they're pedophiles themselves. The modern GOP has been playing Manichean games for years. It's time we do, too, only crank the volume by 100 dB.
I don't think Trump supporters are at all sympathetic toward child rapists, nor child rapists themselves (although of course some will be, given that estimates put the frequency of male pedophilia around a stunning 2%). It is these charges of serial rapes of minors which have fractured the MAGA base.
But. They are uniquely disposed to attribute any reports of moral failure or criminal behaviour on Trump's part as unjust lies, those witch hunts Trump is always shrilling about.
I can only assume their desperate desire for their lives to be made easier, more prosperous and secure (with no effort on their part, btw) is to put blind, utterly blind, and unquestioning faith in Trump. They want to believe.
Oh, hell I agree, and it's because he says it and the media repeats it over and over and over again. The RWPM (right wing propaganda machine) comes out of the gate that it's political. The MM piles on by repeating in quotes (of course) and headlines, and by bothsiding.
I can't disagree with you. Last year a local produced signs in my area that said if you're a democrat you're a pedophile. We need to make them: if you are republican you support pedophiles.
Much depends on getting as many of the 60+% who did NOT vote for Trump out and to the polls.
If concentration camps, deportations to who knows where, saddling the nation with astronomical debt for a cash payout to self and cronies, ripping up Medicaid, the Education department, neutering the FBI and CIA, looking like he diddled young girls, or at least protected and partied with those who did diddle young girls don't do it....
If the media doesn't cover them as such, then people don't know and don't care. Inflation and the "near collapse of the economy" was in the news every damn day for the past several yearsтАФuntil now. Now, you get a one off about the price of beef going up, or chocolate. That's it. There is no drumbeat that trickles down from the ether into people's brains and daily conversations.
Like I said elsewhere yesterday, the economy was all you heard about from voters last year. Have prices gotten cheaper? No. Have they gone up? Yes. Yet yet yet . . . consumer confidence in the economy ticked up in July. Are they shopping at different stores? Nope. But one thing is differentтАФhow much they hear about it via the news or diffused from those who do "follow the news." Last year my local channel had a whole series on how inflation was affecting your pocket book. This summer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dead silence.
We know about the concentration camps. We know about the deportations. Some in the hinterlands know because they have been touched by them. But most Americans are oblivious. But they knew all about Biden's old and HRC's emails. Now, why is that? What makes the difference in knowing or not knowing?
Just because many people no longer get their news from newspapers or the teevee, the mainstream outlets still influence the narrative that does reach themтАФboth in how the RW propaganda machine answers MM coverage and how MM address what the RWPM is putting out as well.
Coffee is more expensive now than it was in November 2024 (I made a point of checking what it was then).
This country voted for lawless, amoral douchebag and we didn't even get cheap coffee! I WAS PROMISED LOWER PRICES ON DAY ONE, WHERE IS MY CHEAP COFFEE DAMMIT
Yep. I'm not a coffee drinker so didn't think of that as an example but yes.
I agree. And the media should be beating the drum every day with Epstein and why aren't prices lower? But they won't. They say they aren't for Trump but they are in the same kind of way as the Senator from Maine.
That's true. And its owner Murdoch hates the US he wants it to dissolve into a fascist state with a depressed economy that is hated by the rest of the world. He wants the US isolated and crippled. He will still have pretty airheads doling out propaganda about how everything is the Democrats fault in spite of the Government being controlled by Republicans. And he will be raking in millions.
I do not understand why. I get being avaricious and I can even understand having a lust for unbridled power. But if the USA continues much longer on its present trajectory, millions will be plunged into misery. Literally millions...and all the good work that the USA was doing, and is doing no longer, will bring untold more miseries to masses of folks across the globe. And for what? So the Murdochs can buy more estates?
I think maybe the decision of "normie" voters in 2026 will be governed by how angry they are at the Republican Congress by that time and less about Trump. There are really only a handful of truly competitive seats held by Republicans and Democrats need to relentlessly tie them to the bad policies they are angry about even more than Trump.
As for the "Red Heads" epistemic collapse happened years ago. When women at Trump rallies wore T-shirts saying "You can grab me by the pussy!" with arrows pointed down to their nether regions.
Plus you actually have to have "cognition" in order to have dissonance!
"they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time"
They know who "Daddy" is: he is their retribution, he is God's chosen avatar on Earth who Makes America Great Again and who makes libs cry. They DGAF about anything else he's done.
Again, I think he is truly their Orange Jesus....they are so desperate for their lives to immediately be made easier, more prosperous and safe (with no effort expended on their part) that they put their blind and utterly unquestioning faith in Trump, who tells them what they want to hear. They deeply, deeply want to believe.
The solution for his supporters is pretty simple. Call them what they are if they continue to support Trump - they are child rapist apologists at best, and closet pedophiles most likely. If they can support someone who at the very least KNEW what Epstein was doing and more than likely participated in it, well, I think their new label as a supporter of child rape is more than justified.
If they get pissed off? Good. They should be mad. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they continue to support child rapists, so F them.
That 47 is/was a rascal playboy is never in doubt. That he might have enjoyed the "services" of underage girls procured by others would not be "news" to anyone but the most naiive fan. And many fans would consider his "success" with women to be a virtue. This is why he is untouchable by the known Epstein offenses. But, then, why is he flailing so desperately to knock out the matter? Is there something far different lying under the surface?
There have been people purporting that the falling out wasnтАЩt about the women but about finances and where DJT was getting his money from or rather from whom and how. HeтАЩs always been notoriously prickly about anything to do with his finances which makes me wonder if there isnтАЩt information about that in the files.
Thank you. I was surprised by his sudden chattiness about "Epstein stealing the spa workers." So soon after the DOJ visits to Maxwell. Have they decided to throw Epstein stuff around so that they give the appearance of being forthcoming? To evade calls for the release of the files?
I've been wondering if there's something to do with Melania or even Ivanka. I can't imagine Trmp protecting anyone else in the world besides those two.
Not accusing them of anything; but they may have some sort of untoward experience involving Epstein that he would prefer remain unknown.
Look at the pictures of the felon and his teenaged daughter. Creepy and suggestive. Even Mary Trump reported in her book about the felon's comments about her "rack". Oh yeah, this guy is trash.
I suspect there is something darker, and it is probably on a video tape somewhere. But more to the point perhaps, he hates to think he has any blots on his copy book. Can't ever be held to have made a mistake.
And...the one thing he cannot afford is to be out of office. As soon as he is out of the Oval Office, he will be facing trial and will likely be given a prison sentence. So I think the flailing can simply be explained by a terror that anything might come along that causes him to be dethroned.
I don't know Tim, there is a victim's deposition that alleges Trump raped her when she was 13 at Epstein's apartment in NY. It might depend on how many victims come forward. If Trump pardons Maxwell that is not going to go over well with the victims she groomed for the entertainment of men like Trump.
I think one of the reasons Trump can't change the narrative is because this narrative is much bigger than just him.
Yes, and Michael Wolff has written that when he was interviewing Epstein, Epstein brought out several photos of Trump with young girls on his lap, and the photos were taken either at Epstein's apartment or his Palm Beach house.
Trump is using the phrase "I never *had the privilege* to go to the island" to deny he is guilty of sexually assaulting the young girls. Some commentators have noted his use of "privilege" here, but they need to press him on the *privileges* he had at Epstein's other properties as well.
Kate Manne, an Australian philosopher and associate professor at Cornell University, took down the words of a woman who describes her encounter with Trump. ItтАЩs a rough read, and really incriminating if true.
Nope. All they want is to own the libs. The libs are women and gay people. Therefore, pedophilia will disgust the libs. Putting a child rapist above us and demanding we respect him is the ultimate in owning the libs. We have never been so owned.
No, I don't think you're crazy. I've lost track of the number of times I thought "ok, this is it, Trump is finished" and then... nothing. The truest thing Trump ever said was, "I could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters."
Apparently the Democrats don't have the taste for blood that this situation requires. Their messaging should be consistent: the GOP is the party that supports and protects pedophiles. When someone like Mike Johnson or Ted Cruz objects -- and they will -- the only response should be, "When did you stop diddling children?"
Agree that Trump will get away with it, but not that Evangelicals will suddenly embrace child sexual abuse. It is called compartmentalization and, to a certain extent, we all do it.
If itтАЩs true - and I think it is with MAGA - that every accusation is a confession, then a lot of their past and ongoing obsession with pedophilia is a sign of their desire to be in on it. ItтАЩs an ugly thought, but it fits a pattern.
Not crazy at all. The problem is normal people think MAGA, and Christian fascists are basically good people who are being bamboozled by Trump. If we could make them see what a bloated bag of hate he is, they would stop supporting him. But that's wrong. They love him because they hate the idea that doing good for the country helps all of us. To them, there is no "us". Just them and everyone else should die or be in concentration camps.
I hate to sound like a broken record, but Trump's going to get away with this, too. And the reason why is because his supporters are morally degraded and would rather have a pedophile in the White House than your median Democrat. Even if there is 100% proof that Trump engaged in the worst possible stuff we can imagine, do you even doubt that someone like Catturd will land on "pedophilia is good"? Or his more religious supporters will describe pedophilia as the "natural order of things" because it establishes the dominion of man over women and children?
Think I'm crazy?
No, but I think that there are a lot of normies who support Trump that are not full MAGA might stay home if this stays in the news in 2026.
The red caps I think will honestly need to eat Trump's sin on this one too. Full Trumpists, like the folks who have gone to multiple rallies, they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time. Since they already do not have a rational or empirical worldview, it's not hard to and it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being.
But like, the normal folks who just wanted inflation down and thought Trump might do businessman-stuff to make the country better? They didn't sign up for this.
I would argue they did sign up for this. They saw the Access Hollywood stuff in 2016. They knew Trump was found civilly liable for sexually assaulting E. Jean Carroll last year. So they gave themselves permission to vote for a morally compromised man because they thought they'd get something out of it.
We saw that, we knew what they signed up for.
I don't think median voters are that engaged, certainly not nearly as much as the average paid subscriber to the Bulwark.
Especially in this age of algorithmic social media bubbles, and 54% of Americans reporting now they get their news from facebook (https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/social-media-and-news-fact-sheet/), there are people who literally just don't care about politics and turned out to vote in 2024, maybe for the first time in a decade, because they were mad about inflation.
They aren't engaged or engaged as much as Fox News will let them be - seriously. I am around a lot of non-MAGA that voted for Trump like they voted for Fox-driven Presidential candidates since Fox came into being. Epstein situation, not even on the radar right now for them
Willful ignorance is a way for them to avoid responsibility.
They believe all of the trials and cases were politically motivated and the mainstream media helped the RW propaganda machine muddy the waters for normies as well. It's why the polls basically had people shrugging over them, even though they were legitimate cases!
Funny how every accusation against Trump is "politically motivated". I think it's a way for his supporters to avoid taking responsibility for their votes. Personally, MAP, I'm at the point where I agree with what Jeff wrote somewhere in this thread: if voters don't renounce their support of Trump, it is because they are either sympathetic towards pedophiles or they're pedophiles themselves. The modern GOP has been playing Manichean games for years. It's time we do, too, only crank the volume by 100 dB.
I don't think Trump supporters are at all sympathetic toward child rapists, nor child rapists themselves (although of course some will be, given that estimates put the frequency of male pedophilia around a stunning 2%). It is these charges of serial rapes of minors which have fractured the MAGA base.
But. They are uniquely disposed to attribute any reports of moral failure or criminal behaviour on Trump's part as unjust lies, those witch hunts Trump is always shrilling about.
I can only assume their desperate desire for their lives to be made easier, more prosperous and secure (with no effort on their part, btw) is to put blind, utterly blind, and unquestioning faith in Trump. They want to believe.
Oh, hell I agree, and it's because he says it and the media repeats it over and over and over again. The RWPM (right wing propaganda machine) comes out of the gate that it's political. The MM piles on by repeating in quotes (of course) and headlines, and by bothsiding.
I can't disagree with you. Last year a local produced signs in my area that said if you're a democrat you're a pedophile. We need to make them: if you are republican you support pedophiles.
I've seen a few memes that tend in that direction:
GOP = Guardians Of Pedophiles
MAGA = Making Adolescent Girls Available
Much depends on getting as many of the 60+% who did NOT vote for Trump out and to the polls.
If concentration camps, deportations to who knows where, saddling the nation with astronomical debt for a cash payout to self and cronies, ripping up Medicaid, the Education department, neutering the FBI and CIA, looking like he diddled young girls, or at least protected and partied with those who did diddle young girls don't do it....
If the media doesn't cover them as such, then people don't know and don't care. Inflation and the "near collapse of the economy" was in the news every damn day for the past several yearsтАФuntil now. Now, you get a one off about the price of beef going up, or chocolate. That's it. There is no drumbeat that trickles down from the ether into people's brains and daily conversations.
Like I said elsewhere yesterday, the economy was all you heard about from voters last year. Have prices gotten cheaper? No. Have they gone up? Yes. Yet yet yet . . . consumer confidence in the economy ticked up in July. Are they shopping at different stores? Nope. But one thing is differentтАФhow much they hear about it via the news or diffused from those who do "follow the news." Last year my local channel had a whole series on how inflation was affecting your pocket book. This summer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Dead silence.
We know about the concentration camps. We know about the deportations. Some in the hinterlands know because they have been touched by them. But most Americans are oblivious. But they knew all about Biden's old and HRC's emails. Now, why is that? What makes the difference in knowing or not knowing?
Just because many people no longer get their news from newspapers or the teevee, the mainstream outlets still influence the narrative that does reach themтАФboth in how the RW propaganda machine answers MM coverage and how MM address what the RWPM is putting out as well.
Coffee is more expensive now than it was in November 2024 (I made a point of checking what it was then).
This country voted for lawless, amoral douchebag and we didn't even get cheap coffee! I WAS PROMISED LOWER PRICES ON DAY ONE, WHERE IS MY CHEAP COFFEE DAMMIT
Yep. I'm not a coffee drinker so didn't think of that as an example but yes.
I agree. And the media should be beating the drum every day with Epstein and why aren't prices lower? But they won't. They say they aren't for Trump but they are in the same kind of way as the Senator from Maine.
Faux News has much to answer for, and its existence is only possible because the Fairness Doctrine was struck down.
That's true. And its owner Murdoch hates the US he wants it to dissolve into a fascist state with a depressed economy that is hated by the rest of the world. He wants the US isolated and crippled. He will still have pretty airheads doling out propaganda about how everything is the Democrats fault in spite of the Government being controlled by Republicans. And he will be raking in millions.
I do not understand why. I get being avaricious and I can even understand having a lust for unbridled power. But if the USA continues much longer on its present trajectory, millions will be plunged into misery. Literally millions...and all the good work that the USA was doing, and is doing no longer, will bring untold more miseries to masses of folks across the globe. And for what? So the Murdochs can buy more estates?
I think maybe the decision of "normie" voters in 2026 will be governed by how angry they are at the Republican Congress by that time and less about Trump. There are really only a handful of truly competitive seats held by Republicans and Democrats need to relentlessly tie them to the bad policies they are angry about even more than Trump.
As for the "Red Heads" epistemic collapse happened years ago. When women at Trump rallies wore T-shirts saying "You can grab me by the pussy!" with arrows pointed down to their nether regions.
Plus you actually have to have "cognition" in order to have dissonance!
Well said.
"they face complete epistemic collapse and irrecoverable cognitive dissonance if they realize who "Daddy" has been the whole time"
They know who "Daddy" is: he is their retribution, he is God's chosen avatar on Earth who Makes America Great Again and who makes libs cry. They DGAF about anything else he's done.
Again, I think he is truly their Orange Jesus....they are so desperate for their lives to immediately be made easier, more prosperous and safe (with no effort expended on their part) that they put their blind and utterly unquestioning faith in Trump, who tells them what they want to hear. They deeply, deeply want to believe.
"it's a matter of necessity for their mental well being."
Did you READ today's "Cheap Shots"?
Their mental well being is way out to sea. . . and drowning fast.
The sooner the better, for the country's sake. We'd all be better off if we were at least having political discourse grounded in reality.
The solution for his supporters is pretty simple. Call them what they are if they continue to support Trump - they are child rapist apologists at best, and closet pedophiles most likely. If they can support someone who at the very least KNEW what Epstein was doing and more than likely participated in it, well, I think their new label as a supporter of child rape is more than justified.
If they get pissed off? Good. They should be mad. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they continue to support child rapists, so F them.
That 47 is/was a rascal playboy is never in doubt. That he might have enjoyed the "services" of underage girls procured by others would not be "news" to anyone but the most naiive fan. And many fans would consider his "success" with women to be a virtue. This is why he is untouchable by the known Epstein offenses. But, then, why is he flailing so desperately to knock out the matter? Is there something far different lying under the surface?
There have been people purporting that the falling out wasnтАЩt about the women but about finances and where DJT was getting his money from or rather from whom and how. HeтАЩs always been notoriously prickly about anything to do with his finances which makes me wonder if there isnтАЩt information about that in the files.
This is what I think. He is so paranoid about "the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax," that I think the files might point to Russia.
Good point.
Thank you. I was surprised by his sudden chattiness about "Epstein stealing the spa workers." So soon after the DOJ visits to Maxwell. Have they decided to throw Epstein stuff around so that they give the appearance of being forthcoming? To evade calls for the release of the files?
Slightly more than a rascal playboy. He has committed sexual assault, confirmed both by a jury and himself.
I've been wondering if there's something to do with Melania or even Ivanka. I can't imagine Trmp protecting anyone else in the world besides those two.
Not accusing them of anything; but they may have some sort of untoward experience involving Epstein that he would prefer remain unknown.
Look at the pictures of the felon and his teenaged daughter. Creepy and suggestive. Even Mary Trump reported in her book about the felon's comments about her "rack". Oh yeah, this guy is trash.
In my opinion Trump is more likely to abuse Ivanka and Melania. Any тАЬprotectionтАЭ he might display is protecting himself.
How likely is that? Epstein would have been shot on 5th Avenue by Trump if he had laid a hand on either one of them.
I suspect there is something darker, and it is probably on a video tape somewhere. But more to the point perhaps, he hates to think he has any blots on his copy book. Can't ever be held to have made a mistake.
And...the one thing he cannot afford is to be out of office. As soon as he is out of the Oval Office, he will be facing trial and will likely be given a prison sentence. So I think the flailing can simply be explained by a terror that anything might come along that causes him to be dethroned.
I don't know Tim, there is a victim's deposition that alleges Trump raped her when she was 13 at Epstein's apartment in NY. It might depend on how many victims come forward. If Trump pardons Maxwell that is not going to go over well with the victims she groomed for the entertainment of men like Trump.
I think one of the reasons Trump can't change the narrative is because this narrative is much bigger than just him.
Right on. You may think the dragonтАЩs your pet, but itтАЩs not, even if you fed it.
Absolutely. The felon is about to hit the iceberg.
Yes, and Michael Wolff has written that when he was interviewing Epstein, Epstein brought out several photos of Trump with young girls on his lap, and the photos were taken either at Epstein's apartment or his Palm Beach house.
Trump is using the phrase "I never *had the privilege* to go to the island" to deny he is guilty of sexually assaulting the young girls. Some commentators have noted his use of "privilege" here, but they need to press him on the *privileges* he had at Epstein's other properties as well.
https://open.substack.com/pub/katemanne/p/the-actual-conspiracy-theory-surrounding?r=n8sec&utm_medium=ios
Kate Manne, an Australian philosopher and associate professor at Cornell University, took down the words of a woman who describes her encounter with Trump. ItтАЩs a rough read, and really incriminating if true.
Nope. All they want is to own the libs. The libs are women and gay people. Therefore, pedophilia will disgust the libs. Putting a child rapist above us and demanding we respect him is the ultimate in owning the libs. We have never been so owned.
Perfect description of just how unserious these assholes are. They're just watching "wrestling".
No, I don't think you're crazy. I've lost track of the number of times I thought "ok, this is it, Trump is finished" and then... nothing. The truest thing Trump ever said was, "I could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any supporters."
Apparently the Democrats don't have the taste for blood that this situation requires. Their messaging should be consistent: the GOP is the party that supports and protects pedophiles. When someone like Mike Johnson or Ted Cruz objects -- and they will -- the only response should be, "When did you stop diddling children?"
Agree that Trump will get away with it, but not that Evangelicals will suddenly embrace child sexual abuse. It is called compartmentalization and, to a certain extent, we all do it.
Yes, we do. But the more self-aware of us know when something is wrong.
Most of MAGA are still in denial over Epstein.
If itтАЩs true - and I think it is with MAGA - that every accusation is a confession, then a lot of their past and ongoing obsession with pedophilia is a sign of their desire to be in on it. ItтАЩs an ugly thought, but it fits a pattern.
I'm seeing a lot of "If it's so bad why did the Dems sit in this for four years?" A lot.
Apparently these same people don't realize that the Dems lost control of the House in 2022 and did not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate.
Also, these same people voted for the "Access Hollywood Grab 'Em By The -----" guy and the "I Sexually Assaulted E. Jean Carroll" guy.
Anything to avoid responsibility for their votes. The fact their vote carries the same weight as mine disgusts me to no end.
We just have to keep pointing out that putting Maxwell in prison is not nothing.
Agree.
NO!
Nope.
Not crazy at all. The problem is normal people think MAGA, and Christian fascists are basically good people who are being bamboozled by Trump. If we could make them see what a bloated bag of hate he is, they would stop supporting him. But that's wrong. They love him because they hate the idea that doing good for the country helps all of us. To them, there is no "us". Just them and everyone else should die or be in concentration camps.