As we keep finding ways and words to fixate upon Joe Biden's personal attributes rather than focus on his record as President, someone please remind me: a) how old Donald Trump is; b) what Donald Trump's physical health appears to be; c) what Donald Trump's state of mind is; and d) what level of respect Donald Trump shows for democracy, …
As we keep finding ways and words to fixate upon Joe Biden's personal attributes rather than focus on his record as President, someone please remind me: a) how old Donald Trump is; b) what Donald Trump's physical health appears to be; c) what Donald Trump's state of mind is; and d) what level of respect Donald Trump shows for democracy, human rights, and fundamental decency. Not all necessarily in that order.
Count me among those who are growing more than fatigued at seeing the so-called political experts keep holding Biden to a different level of scrutiny than Trump on fundamental matters of age, health, and biology, at the expense of what Biden has been done since January 2021 to make our lives better and what the Democrats' plan is for the future (compared to the GOP roadmap of ... more Trump).
If it's a Kamala Harris issue, let's say it out loud and make it an objective point of analysis. Same if it is about left- to far left-leaning policy proposals, as opposed to the GOP's roadmap of ... more Trump. And so on. But the incessant ageism thing without equal time on Trump's own personal geriatric and health issues, and the lack of focus on what the GOP isn't offering the rest of us for the future, is becoming a "look, squirrel!" moment for those of us who want balance and a higher sense of perspective to what is shaping up to be perhaps the most important presidential election in American history next year. Let's go there instead, please and thank you.
Unfortunately, despite Biden’s successes as well as your points about Trump’s age and health, Biden’s optics look bad. He looks old, his body is stiff, his delivery sounds scripted and flat. He also can look feeble at times. He looks 80. In contrast, Trump looks vibrant and “ younger”.
The heart beat away factor puts Kamala Harris in the Republican crosshairs. Her issues are not about policies but again, optics. She can appear snarky, arrogant and aloof.
The general electorate does not appear to be interested in policies or factual accomplishments. Instead, they react to limbic system reactivity. Especially these days, marketing has become critical in campaigns and the DNC has historically bad at communications.
Trump looks vibrant? I see an overweight old man wobbling when he walks. struggling to go down stairs, and sorely in need of some, any, exercise plan. Those are optics. Talking incoherently and showing evident signs of dementia -- optics too. For my part I'm less concerned about the cover on the book than how the book reads. When in doubt, go with the person who isn't trying to steal elections and overturn our Constitution. There are some optics involved in that too, for those who are willing to see them.
As for Kamala, let's all have that discussion. So far it has been almost all innuendo. The right seems unwilling to go there openly. Force their hand and make them own their position on her.
I'll agree with you on Democratic messaging. I've seen a few commercials touting Biden's economic successes, but not nearly enough. If most people vote their pocketbook first, we should be hearing much more about what the Biden Administration has done right and well. Fox News should not hold the high ground simply because they are more insistent about setting the tone.
You are so right! It's like these so called Never Trumpers are secret Trump supporters . Trump is as old as Biden. Inspite of his lies, he's obese. He wears effing makeup and dyes his hair and wears a rug on his head. His stamina is so low he had to take a golf cart to the spot where world leaders were going to have a group photo. The other leaders walked, but it was too far for feeble Trump to walk. Yes when he speaks he's loud and colorful. That's because he was game show host. What comes out if his mouth nonsense.
Remember Biden at the SOTU. The more he was heckled the more ge smiled. He gotten Rs to agree to not cut SS ON NATIONALTV. was that an indication of his being washed up or his being a savy politician.
I agree Deutschmeister! I’m too grow weary of the double standards of holding Biden to a much higher level of competency than Donald Trump. It disgusting, trite, ignorant and basically lies.
Republicans have no platform and refuse to acknowledge publicly that Trump is a loser. We’ve seen what he and the Republican Party offer Americans and it’s a big fat goose egg. We never want Trump near the office of POTUS ever again!
Here’s their plan; work yourselves to the bone and we steal your money. That’s it. The only thing missing in their party is the guy wearing a burglar mask. We already have the gun in our backs.
Trump is a miscreant who has deep incompetency issue.
Joe Biden has more than stepped up to the tasks at hand and has offered Americans another path. A decent, path that was torn away from us for the past 50 years by Republicans. They are the party of fascists and need to be squelched.
Republicans can hold the Christian Right, Samuel Alito, and the filth of Clarence and Ginni Thomas responsible for their very public and tawdry demise. I mean just look at MTG, white trash Bobert, “Daddy won’t let anyone be mean to me”, Matt Gaetz.
They’re all revolting and we’re ready to move on.
Joe Biden is a good choice and a decent man at this time.
I’m very proud to say I supported and would be pleased to have Josh Shapiro run for POTUS. Along with the other possible candidates, we can move past this manufactured conflict created to deceive us.
Well Deutschmeister, you be fatigued. It's fine. You're entitled! No one should forget that Donald Trump is also old, and unfit, or that he is an evil piece of gobshite. I don't know that anyone around here thinks otherwise. Those aren't the issues. The reality that I see from quite far away is that Biden is just not right for the job for another four years, even though he does it pretty well now! A lot of politics involves perception, and when a perception is embedded, even if it's totally wrong, it's hard to shift. And it's not totally wrong.
You might think people like Joe Klein who I'd say has some claim to being expert, is just not worth considering - "so-called" eh? Not like you, right? - but it ain't so.
It seems to me Trump gets plenty of scrutiny. Sure, he could use some more and I look forward to it and the day the turnkey slams the cell door shut. But Biden actually avoided a lot of that for a long time, and in some respects still does, and it isn't helping now. The Trump machine is formidable and takes the tiniest whiff of the slightest possible bad odour and turns it into a sewer.
There is some time before the next election, and the Democrats should use it to get Biden to be what he said he would be before the previous one: a transitional figure. He has the opportunity to massage a new slate and avoid the rancour and foolishness of the last time. If there is not a "Plan B" now he can cook one up. That's the great role he can and should play. The recent suggestion of a Whitmer-led ticket makes sense to me.
I fear that the "alternatives" mentioned so far will be seen as far too liberal by tfg-fatigued Republicans and Independents we need to win. Putting up a woman, POC, or LGBTQ+ would make me deliriously happy, but I don't believe for a moment that it's a winning strategy. Remember that at least some of the MAGA-types rose up because of a reaction against a Black President. To go from a moderate like Biden to a "politically-correct," progressive candidate is, I fear, a bridge too far. Even though those "alternatives" would govern well and honestly, with the best interests of the country in mind....
The problem is just what you said: "The Trump machine is formidable and takes the tiniest whiff of the slightest possible bad odour and turns it into a sewer." Whitmer sounds good because the right-wing media only feinted in her direction back when they wanted to see her kidnapped. If she were a viable candidate, there would be such a hate campaign against her, and we all know how that ends.
Kate thank you for your comment. You may well be right though I don't know what you mean by "feinted". Whitmer seems able and tough enough to take the hits and turn them back, but as you imply being a governor is not the same as being a candidate for president. However, that's going to be the same with anyone, and if the tests she's been given have been local, they were pretty serious.
To me, the most challenging issue is to confront and defeat the isolationist authoritarian movement represented by Trump and his clique. It's not just important for the US, but or the world. The rules based international order sponsored and to a large degree maintained by the US and its allies is under threat and to me it's the most pressing of all the issues involved. Truly wonderful strides have been made in many parts of the globe, and without diminishing the problems that remain it seems as if any progress in material well being by anyone else, is bad, and those gains are under threat. We see in Trump's recent wheeze of a uniform tariff applied to all imports the spectre of the Smoot Hawley tariff in the 1930s that entrenched the depression and lay the groundwork for Nazism to triumph in Germany. Biden hasn't been immune to this seductive melody either. What is worse is what seems to me to be an American predilection to think that those seeking undermine that order are amenable to persuasion, or at least honest negotiation.
And for all the Harris moaners out there - let’s consider who Trump is likely to pick as a VP. How do you feel about Vice President Lake being a heartbeat away, as Trump eats another Big Mac with two Diet Cokes? How about VP Taylor-Green?
In regards to Kamala Harris, I would put her up , if we're doing apples to apples, against whatever ignorant anarchist or flamethrower Trump ends up picking, and as Messina said, it comes down to a choice : Biden vs Trump AND Harris vs. (Lake/Greene wing or generic Trump sycophant wing). From that perspective, Harris is clearly the only rational choice for any rational (non-Trumpy) voter. And I also reiterate that pundits overthink this stuff - the typical voter , who doesn't follow politics at all in their normal life, barely thinks about the second name on the ticket when casting their ballot.
I legitimately think the difference between say, Whitmer/Warnock and Kamala/say Tim Walz (current Minnesota Gov) is a lot smaller than people online think.
Truth to tell, the attacks on her that pretend to understand how she would be if president as just pure speculation. What she is getting is some real experience. So she sees how a functional white house runs. That is really all there is.
And let's also get serious about what we really know about anyone who has not been president. Obama, for all his eloquence, simply did not have the relationships or experience to get more done. And Bush II was led by the nose. So I would take my chances with Joe and Kamala.
I’m sure what this brouhaha is about Biden’s age? Republicans are going ape shit about how Biden’s faculties are gone. Even though all evidence points to the contrary. He just spoke in PA on Monday and sounded fine.
Yet, if not mistaken, these same people consider Reagan the greatest president ever. If I’m not confused, didn’t Nancy run the presidency for Reagan’s last three years and her closest advisor was an astrologer?
She and her Astrologer sure were involved. Nancy did everything she could to shield her husband. But remember, too, he had an Administration. He wasn’t just up there running the show on his own.
This was such a good comment I had to repost it to Notes.
I said above that Biden has worked his whole life to end up in the White House, he's not giving that up. Maybe his off the cuff stuff (as Charlie and Will were chatting about) is a little cringe-inducing, but compared to what Trump has been putting out on Truth Social, it's practically poetry.
Come on, Bulwark writers, time to stop beating this dead horse.
You left out emotional intelligence. Joe has the wisdom that comes from age and a life well lived that includes both happy and sad experiences. TFG is a perpetual 8-10 year old spoiled brat. He's the kid we all hated to play board games with, because if he didn't get his way or win, he's quit or throw the pieces in the air so nobody could play. Joe might have a stutter, but TFG can't complete a sentence. Bigly!
I can point to Trump's poor leadership as a direct result of hundreds of thousands of Americans losing their lives. My son has a friend who isn't around because his staunchly conservative family rejected vaccines. Trump could have actually led on suggesting it when it came out. He didn't.
Now, those against Biden, whatcha got compared to that? A senior moment or two? Did he fall off the bike he actually rides?
Beyond that TFG is promising fact-free retribution in what is clearly a Constitution defying way. If elected, we'll have to hope for the more rapid onset of his dementia to keep him from doing exactly what he is promising. Well, that and his famous laziness. Give him a lifetime free pass to Augusta National, Pebble Beach, and any other world famous golf course to see if we can keep him from actively destroying everything the founders created and the greatest generation re-enforced.
Funny. yesterday Charlie and Will bemoaned the beatings they were taking from "the elites" as they patted themselves on the back for speaking truth about Biden. I screamed at my phone "what do you call yourselves??"
Oh no. I didn't listen, but when well-known people in political circles start referring to Other People as the elites, and pretending they are not elite themselves, it's a very unhealthy sign in my opinion. That's how the CPAC and NRA grifters do their grift.
Yeah it seems like somehow the conservative media machine leaks into the rest of media. I happen to agree with some that Trump appears more lively and alive than Joe. Maybe it's how I perceive anger, I don't know. But rest assured I think Biden on life support is magnitudes better than Trump or other GOP options.
I know; it’s a little too harsh. But I chose it specifically for a guaranteed “gotcha”. Because MAGAs drive me to thoughts of gotcha. I’m not proud of it!
As we keep finding ways and words to fixate upon Joe Biden's personal attributes rather than focus on his record as President, someone please remind me: a) how old Donald Trump is; b) what Donald Trump's physical health appears to be; c) what Donald Trump's state of mind is; and d) what level of respect Donald Trump shows for democracy, human rights, and fundamental decency. Not all necessarily in that order.
Count me among those who are growing more than fatigued at seeing the so-called political experts keep holding Biden to a different level of scrutiny than Trump on fundamental matters of age, health, and biology, at the expense of what Biden has been done since January 2021 to make our lives better and what the Democrats' plan is for the future (compared to the GOP roadmap of ... more Trump).
If it's a Kamala Harris issue, let's say it out loud and make it an objective point of analysis. Same if it is about left- to far left-leaning policy proposals, as opposed to the GOP's roadmap of ... more Trump. And so on. But the incessant ageism thing without equal time on Trump's own personal geriatric and health issues, and the lack of focus on what the GOP isn't offering the rest of us for the future, is becoming a "look, squirrel!" moment for those of us who want balance and a higher sense of perspective to what is shaping up to be perhaps the most important presidential election in American history next year. Let's go there instead, please and thank you.
Unfortunately, despite Biden’s successes as well as your points about Trump’s age and health, Biden’s optics look bad. He looks old, his body is stiff, his delivery sounds scripted and flat. He also can look feeble at times. He looks 80. In contrast, Trump looks vibrant and “ younger”.
The heart beat away factor puts Kamala Harris in the Republican crosshairs. Her issues are not about policies but again, optics. She can appear snarky, arrogant and aloof.
The general electorate does not appear to be interested in policies or factual accomplishments. Instead, they react to limbic system reactivity. Especially these days, marketing has become critical in campaigns and the DNC has historically bad at communications.
Trump looks vibrant? I see an overweight old man wobbling when he walks. struggling to go down stairs, and sorely in need of some, any, exercise plan. Those are optics. Talking incoherently and showing evident signs of dementia -- optics too. For my part I'm less concerned about the cover on the book than how the book reads. When in doubt, go with the person who isn't trying to steal elections and overturn our Constitution. There are some optics involved in that too, for those who are willing to see them.
As for Kamala, let's all have that discussion. So far it has been almost all innuendo. The right seems unwilling to go there openly. Force their hand and make them own their position on her.
I'll agree with you on Democratic messaging. I've seen a few commercials touting Biden's economic successes, but not nearly enough. If most people vote their pocketbook first, we should be hearing much more about what the Biden Administration has done right and well. Fox News should not hold the high ground simply because they are more insistent about setting the tone.
You are so right! It's like these so called Never Trumpers are secret Trump supporters . Trump is as old as Biden. Inspite of his lies, he's obese. He wears effing makeup and dyes his hair and wears a rug on his head. His stamina is so low he had to take a golf cart to the spot where world leaders were going to have a group photo. The other leaders walked, but it was too far for feeble Trump to walk. Yes when he speaks he's loud and colorful. That's because he was game show host. What comes out if his mouth nonsense.
Remember Biden at the SOTU. The more he was heckled the more ge smiled. He gotten Rs to agree to not cut SS ON NATIONALTV. was that an indication of his being washed up or his being a savy politician.
Absolutely!!!
I agree Deutschmeister! I’m too grow weary of the double standards of holding Biden to a much higher level of competency than Donald Trump. It disgusting, trite, ignorant and basically lies.
Republicans have no platform and refuse to acknowledge publicly that Trump is a loser. We’ve seen what he and the Republican Party offer Americans and it’s a big fat goose egg. We never want Trump near the office of POTUS ever again!
Here’s their plan; work yourselves to the bone and we steal your money. That’s it. The only thing missing in their party is the guy wearing a burglar mask. We already have the gun in our backs.
Trump is a miscreant who has deep incompetency issue.
Joe Biden has more than stepped up to the tasks at hand and has offered Americans another path. A decent, path that was torn away from us for the past 50 years by Republicans. They are the party of fascists and need to be squelched.
Republicans can hold the Christian Right, Samuel Alito, and the filth of Clarence and Ginni Thomas responsible for their very public and tawdry demise. I mean just look at MTG, white trash Bobert, “Daddy won’t let anyone be mean to me”, Matt Gaetz.
They’re all revolting and we’re ready to move on.
Joe Biden is a good choice and a decent man at this time.
I’m very proud to say I supported and would be pleased to have Josh Shapiro run for POTUS. Along with the other possible candidates, we can move past this manufactured conflict created to deceive us.
Democrats keep eating their own over trivialities, assuming their “virtue” will be rewarded.
Just ask Al Franken.
Well Deutschmeister, you be fatigued. It's fine. You're entitled! No one should forget that Donald Trump is also old, and unfit, or that he is an evil piece of gobshite. I don't know that anyone around here thinks otherwise. Those aren't the issues. The reality that I see from quite far away is that Biden is just not right for the job for another four years, even though he does it pretty well now! A lot of politics involves perception, and when a perception is embedded, even if it's totally wrong, it's hard to shift. And it's not totally wrong.
You might think people like Joe Klein who I'd say has some claim to being expert, is just not worth considering - "so-called" eh? Not like you, right? - but it ain't so.
It seems to me Trump gets plenty of scrutiny. Sure, he could use some more and I look forward to it and the day the turnkey slams the cell door shut. But Biden actually avoided a lot of that for a long time, and in some respects still does, and it isn't helping now. The Trump machine is formidable and takes the tiniest whiff of the slightest possible bad odour and turns it into a sewer.
There is some time before the next election, and the Democrats should use it to get Biden to be what he said he would be before the previous one: a transitional figure. He has the opportunity to massage a new slate and avoid the rancour and foolishness of the last time. If there is not a "Plan B" now he can cook one up. That's the great role he can and should play. The recent suggestion of a Whitmer-led ticket makes sense to me.
I fear that the "alternatives" mentioned so far will be seen as far too liberal by tfg-fatigued Republicans and Independents we need to win. Putting up a woman, POC, or LGBTQ+ would make me deliriously happy, but I don't believe for a moment that it's a winning strategy. Remember that at least some of the MAGA-types rose up because of a reaction against a Black President. To go from a moderate like Biden to a "politically-correct," progressive candidate is, I fear, a bridge too far. Even though those "alternatives" would govern well and honestly, with the best interests of the country in mind....
The problem is just what you said: "The Trump machine is formidable and takes the tiniest whiff of the slightest possible bad odour and turns it into a sewer." Whitmer sounds good because the right-wing media only feinted in her direction back when they wanted to see her kidnapped. If she were a viable candidate, there would be such a hate campaign against her, and we all know how that ends.
Kate thank you for your comment. You may well be right though I don't know what you mean by "feinted". Whitmer seems able and tough enough to take the hits and turn them back, but as you imply being a governor is not the same as being a candidate for president. However, that's going to be the same with anyone, and if the tests she's been given have been local, they were pretty serious.
To me, the most challenging issue is to confront and defeat the isolationist authoritarian movement represented by Trump and his clique. It's not just important for the US, but or the world. The rules based international order sponsored and to a large degree maintained by the US and its allies is under threat and to me it's the most pressing of all the issues involved. Truly wonderful strides have been made in many parts of the globe, and without diminishing the problems that remain it seems as if any progress in material well being by anyone else, is bad, and those gains are under threat. We see in Trump's recent wheeze of a uniform tariff applied to all imports the spectre of the Smoot Hawley tariff in the 1930s that entrenched the depression and lay the groundwork for Nazism to triumph in Germany. Biden hasn't been immune to this seductive melody either. What is worse is what seems to me to be an American predilection to think that those seeking undermine that order are amenable to persuasion, or at least honest negotiation.
And for all the Harris moaners out there - let’s consider who Trump is likely to pick as a VP. How do you feel about Vice President Lake being a heartbeat away, as Trump eats another Big Mac with two Diet Cokes? How about VP Taylor-Green?
In regards to Kamala Harris, I would put her up , if we're doing apples to apples, against whatever ignorant anarchist or flamethrower Trump ends up picking, and as Messina said, it comes down to a choice : Biden vs Trump AND Harris vs. (Lake/Greene wing or generic Trump sycophant wing). From that perspective, Harris is clearly the only rational choice for any rational (non-Trumpy) voter. And I also reiterate that pundits overthink this stuff - the typical voter , who doesn't follow politics at all in their normal life, barely thinks about the second name on the ticket when casting their ballot.
I legitimately think the difference between say, Whitmer/Warnock and Kamala/say Tim Walz (current Minnesota Gov) is a lot smaller than people online think.
Truth to tell, the attacks on her that pretend to understand how she would be if president as just pure speculation. What she is getting is some real experience. So she sees how a functional white house runs. That is really all there is.
And let's also get serious about what we really know about anyone who has not been president. Obama, for all his eloquence, simply did not have the relationships or experience to get more done. And Bush II was led by the nose. So I would take my chances with Joe and Kamala.
I’m sure what this brouhaha is about Biden’s age? Republicans are going ape shit about how Biden’s faculties are gone. Even though all evidence points to the contrary. He just spoke in PA on Monday and sounded fine.
Yet, if not mistaken, these same people consider Reagan the greatest president ever. If I’m not confused, didn’t Nancy run the presidency for Reagan’s last three years and her closest advisor was an astrologer?
Just saying....:)
True. Reagan had good advisers but as an actor he always seemed to me like he was playing the part of the President.
She and her Astrologer sure were involved. Nancy did everything she could to shield her husband. But remember, too, he had an Administration. He wasn’t just up there running the show on his own.
no he definitely wasn't, Don Regan was doing the show running.
This was such a good comment I had to repost it to Notes.
I said above that Biden has worked his whole life to end up in the White House, he's not giving that up. Maybe his off the cuff stuff (as Charlie and Will were chatting about) is a little cringe-inducing, but compared to what Trump has been putting out on Truth Social, it's practically poetry.
Come on, Bulwark writers, time to stop beating this dead horse.
You left out emotional intelligence. Joe has the wisdom that comes from age and a life well lived that includes both happy and sad experiences. TFG is a perpetual 8-10 year old spoiled brat. He's the kid we all hated to play board games with, because if he didn't get his way or win, he's quit or throw the pieces in the air so nobody could play. Joe might have a stutter, but TFG can't complete a sentence. Bigly!
I can describe Trump in one word: “Covfefe”.....:)
Exactly.
I can point to Trump's poor leadership as a direct result of hundreds of thousands of Americans losing their lives. My son has a friend who isn't around because his staunchly conservative family rejected vaccines. Trump could have actually led on suggesting it when it came out. He didn't.
Now, those against Biden, whatcha got compared to that? A senior moment or two? Did he fall off the bike he actually rides?
Beyond that TFG is promising fact-free retribution in what is clearly a Constitution defying way. If elected, we'll have to hope for the more rapid onset of his dementia to keep him from doing exactly what he is promising. Well, that and his famous laziness. Give him a lifetime free pass to Augusta National, Pebble Beach, and any other world famous golf course to see if we can keep him from actively destroying everything the founders created and the greatest generation re-enforced.
Ha ha.
AMEN!!!
Funny. yesterday Charlie and Will bemoaned the beatings they were taking from "the elites" as they patted themselves on the back for speaking truth about Biden. I screamed at my phone "what do you call yourselves??"
Oh no. I didn't listen, but when well-known people in political circles start referring to Other People as the elites, and pretending they are not elite themselves, it's a very unhealthy sign in my opinion. That's how the CPAC and NRA grifters do their grift.
Yeah it seems like somehow the conservative media machine leaks into the rest of media. I happen to agree with some that Trump appears more lively and alive than Joe. Maybe it's how I perceive anger, I don't know. But rest assured I think Biden on life support is magnitudes better than Trump or other GOP options.
Yes, I understand that, but what about her e-mails?
I just spit coffee.
I thank you for a good laugh this morning
Allow MAGA voters to cast a ballot only if they can locate Benghazi on a map.
I know; it’s a little too harsh. But I chose it specifically for a guaranteed “gotcha”. Because MAGAs drive me to thoughts of gotcha. I’m not proud of it!
Unintended catch! I’ll toss you back into the ocean. . .
Oh dear. I guess I’d better buy this fishie a globe! One with Benghazi highlighted?