Max, saying over & over that Joe Biden has been a good President, & it's all the "Bulwark Republicans' fault" helps no one. I bow to no one in my admiration of Joe Biden's accomplishments in his presidency. I've copied Simon Rosenberg's list of bills Biden has gotten passed into a Word document, which I've used on many a comment board to refute nay sayers. But that was a different Joe Biden. We cannot unsee what we saw last Thurs. night, nor can we unread what world leaders who admire Biden & have noticed & are now reporting.
I'm not mad at the Bulwark staff. I'm furious at the Democratic Party hierarchy who kept Biden's decline hidden. Democrats have a very deep bench. There are excellent Governors, some in must-win states, like Josh Shapiro (PA), Gretchen Whitmer (Mich), & Tony Evers (Wisc). And others like Andy Beshear (KY), Gavin Newsom (CA), Phil Murphy (NJ) & Jared Polis (CO). There are also many excellent Senators as well. Sheldon Whitehouse (RI), Bob Casey (PA), Cory Booker ( NJ), Chris Murphy ( Conn), Tim Kaine & Mark Warner ( both VA) & Sherrod Brown (OH) come to mind. These people may not be " household names", but they could have been, if the party had begun promoting them several years ago.
I don't think it's too late now to do this. Kamala Harris could still remain as the VP candidate. But time is short. If Biden remains on the top of the ticket, of course I will vote for him. And I will write as many Postcards to Voters as Tony the Democrat asks me to. But I remain pessimistic that Biden has the strength, vigor & mental agility to win this race for us. And the most important truth is that a Democratic candidate must beat Trump.
Nobody kept anything hidden. We have always known the elderly Biden has (mostly) good days and (a few) bad days. Tim counts twenty bad days over Biden's term. Only twenty! Biden on his worst day is still light years better than Trump on his best day.
Keeping Biden offers less risk but also less drama, energy and excitement than replacing him, with no assurance that it would make any difference. The great operational question before us is not “Is Joe Biden too old?” The question is “Do you trust the delegates to the Democratic convention in Chicago to replace the present ticket with a supposedly more winning ticket without ripping their party apart in catastrophic ways?” The Democrats are a coalition party, not a base party, and they need coalition leadership.
The only guarantee is no matter what happens, if Trump slithers through the Electoral College (with a fraction of one percent of the vote), the Dems will viciously scapegoat someone.
The knives are out, mostly the news media and a few democratic legislators who are depressed and have lost their logical mind set. We wait, time will put events into perspective. The president if he decides that he is damaged goods should step down and turn over the Presidency to the Vice President Kamala Harris. She is in the White House and knows what's going on and will carry on President Biden's agenda. The other option would be to do want LBJ did and say I will not seek reelection. That will open the door to pure chaos. Think of multiple candidates at the convention fighting over who's the best candidate to run the Country. Think 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago. There needs to be ORDER in the chain of command. Rather it's Biden or Harris, democrats, sane independents and Republicans will vote to defeat Trump. A lot of people I talk to don't like Biden but there in total fear of Trump as our President.
Wow - insulting longtime Democratic supporters & contributors - a new way to make friends.
I will match you head to head in going door to door for Democrats, phone banking for Democrats, marching for the ERA & abortion rights & contributing to Democratic candidates nationwide any day, Buddy.
While most of us probably agree with your sentiment, we are also wide-eyed about the voting public.
The same voting public that doesn't see much difference between trump and Biden. The same voting public that believes gas prices are Biden's fault.
I align closely with what JVL espouses. Biden has been one of the best presidents in my lifetime. I also think he is on track to lose this election. And after the debate it is now worse and might drag enough other Dem candidates with him to give the fascist right-wingers a trifecta of House, Senate and Presidency.
I would vote for Biden in a coma over trump. But the facts are stark about his candidacy. Quit ignoring that and blaming straight talking never-trump allies.
It's not tim Miller's fault that Biden is sinking in the polls.
This is insulting, unnecessary, and completely unproductive towards the greater goal at hand. You assume dissent only emanates from Republicans, though these "Bulwark Republicans", as you so fondly refer to them as, aren't Republicans anymore; haven't you been paying attention? Democrats, including some right here in this thread, feel the same way; haven't you been paying attention? You think so little of The Bulwark that you think they're slaves to their innermost "Republican" desires. Your ignorance and narrow-mindedness is showing.
Having the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump and help Democrats perform as well as possible down-ticket. To do so, we must be able to discuss the candidate the Party is about to nominate. We should be able to do so without name-calling and derision.
I'm not upset you have a mind of your own, but I think what it has to say is ugly. And it's misdirected at allies, whom you accuse of having nefarious desires and intentions. I really don't understand it.
No one is telling you you didn't see what you saw. But we are telling you to put it into the complete context. For example, why is no one paying attention to his appearance at Waffle House later the same night where Biden was fine, almost as if the cold medicine had worn off? Meanwhile, Trump every single day shows he cannot speak coherently even with a teleprompter.
Keeping Biden offers less risk but also less drama, energy and excitement than replacing him, with no assurance that it would make any difference. The great operational question before us is not “Is Joe Biden too old?” Your hyperbole is unhelpful. Biden is far, far from "comatose." Way to spread right-wing propaganda.. The question is “Do you trust the delegates to the Democratic convention in Chicago to replace the present ticket with a supposedly more winning ticket without ripping their party apart in catastrophic ways?” The Democrats are a coalition party, not a base party, and they need coalition leadership.
The only guarantee is no matter what happens, if Trump slithers through the Electoral College (with a fraction of one percent of the vote), the Dems will viciously scapegoat someone.
Well, there was hype, actually. There was hype in that the White House and Biden-Harris Campaign have told us how capable Biden is and repeatedly dismissed any concerns expressed about his age. They then set up this debate to showcase just how vigorous and capable Biden really is, then showed America *the worst they've ever seen of him!* They created the hype and then not only failed to deliver, they created an even greater concern than there was before. It has been a disaster and the longer the Democratic Party continues to drag this out, with every new explanation/excuse that gets rolled out (it was a cold, he was Gish Galloped, he traveled too much), with every day Biden hasn't been in public and off a teleprompter, with every MAGA-like Cult-of-Biden attack on *anyone* expressing doubts about "our man", the Party loses credibility. Voters will increasingly stop seeing a party that is dedicated to the truth (something Joe Biden ensured us he knows how to tell at his post-debate Raleigh, NC rally... with a teleprompter...), that they put country over party, that they're not beholden to the ego of one man. It begins to look like, everyone's the same. Independent voters will inevitably ask themselves, "if they're all the same, why even bother voting?"
No one is trashing Biden. He's been great! And what he did in 2020 was awesome! And of course he has my vote if he stays in. The question is whether the voters we need to overcome Trump will be comfortable with a Joe Biden who seemed extremely weak and unfocused during the debate. As to whether it was a one-off, we need Biden to get out in unscripted events with no teleprompter. Absent that, it will be hard not to conclude that he is no longer capable of running a campaign that will defeat Trump and that someone else should step in. Beating Trump is the only thing that matters.
Max, saying over & over that Joe Biden has been a good President, & it's all the "Bulwark Republicans' fault" helps no one. I bow to no one in my admiration of Joe Biden's accomplishments in his presidency. I've copied Simon Rosenberg's list of bills Biden has gotten passed into a Word document, which I've used on many a comment board to refute nay sayers. But that was a different Joe Biden. We cannot unsee what we saw last Thurs. night, nor can we unread what world leaders who admire Biden & have noticed & are now reporting.
I'm not mad at the Bulwark staff. I'm furious at the Democratic Party hierarchy who kept Biden's decline hidden. Democrats have a very deep bench. There are excellent Governors, some in must-win states, like Josh Shapiro (PA), Gretchen Whitmer (Mich), & Tony Evers (Wisc). And others like Andy Beshear (KY), Gavin Newsom (CA), Phil Murphy (NJ) & Jared Polis (CO). There are also many excellent Senators as well. Sheldon Whitehouse (RI), Bob Casey (PA), Cory Booker ( NJ), Chris Murphy ( Conn), Tim Kaine & Mark Warner ( both VA) & Sherrod Brown (OH) come to mind. These people may not be " household names", but they could have been, if the party had begun promoting them several years ago.
I don't think it's too late now to do this. Kamala Harris could still remain as the VP candidate. But time is short. If Biden remains on the top of the ticket, of course I will vote for him. And I will write as many Postcards to Voters as Tony the Democrat asks me to. But I remain pessimistic that Biden has the strength, vigor & mental agility to win this race for us. And the most important truth is that a Democratic candidate must beat Trump.
Nobody kept anything hidden. We have always known the elderly Biden has (mostly) good days and (a few) bad days. Tim counts twenty bad days over Biden's term. Only twenty! Biden on his worst day is still light years better than Trump on his best day.
Keeping Biden offers less risk but also less drama, energy and excitement than replacing him, with no assurance that it would make any difference. The great operational question before us is not “Is Joe Biden too old?” The question is “Do you trust the delegates to the Democratic convention in Chicago to replace the present ticket with a supposedly more winning ticket without ripping their party apart in catastrophic ways?” The Democrats are a coalition party, not a base party, and they need coalition leadership.
The only guarantee is no matter what happens, if Trump slithers through the Electoral College (with a fraction of one percent of the vote), the Dems will viciously scapegoat someone.
Yes but can he beat him
History shows the incumbency advantage to be extremely powerful, close to determinative. No matter what there are no 100% guarantees .
The knives are out, mostly the news media and a few democratic legislators who are depressed and have lost their logical mind set. We wait, time will put events into perspective. The president if he decides that he is damaged goods should step down and turn over the Presidency to the Vice President Kamala Harris. She is in the White House and knows what's going on and will carry on President Biden's agenda. The other option would be to do want LBJ did and say I will not seek reelection. That will open the door to pure chaos. Think of multiple candidates at the convention fighting over who's the best candidate to run the Country. Think 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago. There needs to be ORDER in the chain of command. Rather it's Biden or Harris, democrats, sane independents and Republicans will vote to defeat Trump. A lot of people I talk to don't like Biden but there in total fear of Trump as our President.
Wow - insulting longtime Democratic supporters & contributors - a new way to make friends.
I will match you head to head in going door to door for Democrats, phone banking for Democrats, marching for the ERA & abortion rights & contributing to Democratic candidates nationwide any day, Buddy.
While most of us probably agree with your sentiment, we are also wide-eyed about the voting public.
The same voting public that doesn't see much difference between trump and Biden. The same voting public that believes gas prices are Biden's fault.
I align closely with what JVL espouses. Biden has been one of the best presidents in my lifetime. I also think he is on track to lose this election. And after the debate it is now worse and might drag enough other Dem candidates with him to give the fascist right-wingers a trifecta of House, Senate and Presidency.
I would vote for Biden in a coma over trump. But the facts are stark about his candidacy. Quit ignoring that and blaming straight talking never-trump allies.
It's not tim Miller's fault that Biden is sinking in the polls.
Is Biden running for the last four years or the next four years?
This is insulting, unnecessary, and completely unproductive towards the greater goal at hand. You assume dissent only emanates from Republicans, though these "Bulwark Republicans", as you so fondly refer to them as, aren't Republicans anymore; haven't you been paying attention? Democrats, including some right here in this thread, feel the same way; haven't you been paying attention? You think so little of The Bulwark that you think they're slaves to their innermost "Republican" desires. Your ignorance and narrow-mindedness is showing.
Having the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump and help Democrats perform as well as possible down-ticket. To do so, we must be able to discuss the candidate the Party is about to nominate. We should be able to do so without name-calling and derision.
I'm not upset you have a mind of your own, but I think what it has to say is ugly. And it's misdirected at allies, whom you accuse of having nefarious desires and intentions. I really don't understand it.
Having been unmasked, I'm done with this conversation. Though I must say, you come across as a bit MAGA-crazy-like.
-- Secret Bill Kristol
Sure, would you leave infant children in the care of uncle Joe after last Thursday?
No one is telling you you didn't see what you saw. But we are telling you to put it into the complete context. For example, why is no one paying attention to his appearance at Waffle House later the same night where Biden was fine, almost as if the cold medicine had worn off? Meanwhile, Trump every single day shows he cannot speak coherently even with a teleprompter.
Keeping Biden offers less risk but also less drama, energy and excitement than replacing him, with no assurance that it would make any difference. The great operational question before us is not “Is Joe Biden too old?” Your hyperbole is unhelpful. Biden is far, far from "comatose." Way to spread right-wing propaganda.. The question is “Do you trust the delegates to the Democratic convention in Chicago to replace the present ticket with a supposedly more winning ticket without ripping their party apart in catastrophic ways?” The Democrats are a coalition party, not a base party, and they need coalition leadership.
The only guarantee is no matter what happens, if Trump slithers through the Electoral College (with a fraction of one percent of the vote), the Dems will viciously scapegoat someone.
He can't win. Thats it.
That's unknowable.
“Based on the hype.” It was a setup, then?
Well, there was hype, actually. There was hype in that the White House and Biden-Harris Campaign have told us how capable Biden is and repeatedly dismissed any concerns expressed about his age. They then set up this debate to showcase just how vigorous and capable Biden really is, then showed America *the worst they've ever seen of him!* They created the hype and then not only failed to deliver, they created an even greater concern than there was before. It has been a disaster and the longer the Democratic Party continues to drag this out, with every new explanation/excuse that gets rolled out (it was a cold, he was Gish Galloped, he traveled too much), with every day Biden hasn't been in public and off a teleprompter, with every MAGA-like Cult-of-Biden attack on *anyone* expressing doubts about "our man", the Party loses credibility. Voters will increasingly stop seeing a party that is dedicated to the truth (something Joe Biden ensured us he knows how to tell at his post-debate Raleigh, NC rally... with a teleprompter...), that they put country over party, that they're not beholden to the ego of one man. It begins to look like, everyone's the same. Independent voters will inevitably ask themselves, "if they're all the same, why even bother voting?"
No one is trashing Biden. He's been great! And what he did in 2020 was awesome! And of course he has my vote if he stays in. The question is whether the voters we need to overcome Trump will be comfortable with a Joe Biden who seemed extremely weak and unfocused during the debate. As to whether it was a one-off, we need Biden to get out in unscripted events with no teleprompter. Absent that, it will be hard not to conclude that he is no longer capable of running a campaign that will defeat Trump and that someone else should step in. Beating Trump is the only thing that matters.
We're all going to vote for Biden here, Max. That's a given. Do you not understand that?
There's probably not a single trump voter in the Bulwark universe.
But we also aren't blind or stupid. We see how much that debate impacted the race.
It's time for a different candidate. We must win. This isn't about Biden, it's about defeating trump and the coming theocratic oligarchy.
Right now, Biden's performance will lead to defeat, landslide defeat.