I greatly enjoyed your discussions yesterday with David French and with Mona, as I always do.
A few comments: First, on the age thing. It’s not that we are putting our heads in the sand. It’s that we have heard it, recognize it, think the only thing that can be done about it is for Biden to try to look as spry as he can. As a segu…
I greatly enjoyed your discussions yesterday with David French and with Mona, as I always do.
A few comments: First, on the age thing. It’s not that we are putting our heads in the sand. It’s that we have heard it, recognize it, think the only thing that can be done about it is for Biden to try to look as spry as he can. As a segue to my next point, repeating the same point over and over has crossed the line into a harangue and has become, frankly, a little insulting.
On the topic of speaking to the “persuadables”. I agree that “persuadables” need to be persuaded. We need to define our terms here, though. Do we consider two-time Trump voters as being in that bucket? If so, as a lifelong Democrat who considers himself a moderate, I have to tell you I have run out of ideas for how to talk to those people. I have some in my family and immediate social circle and, to be honest, the condition of keeping them there has been avoiding the subject of politics altogether. My brother, with whom I agree on nearly every substantive issue but this one have sworn off politics since the Obama era. I broached politics a year ago and within minutes the phrase ”Biden Crime Family” was spoken, and we shut it down again.
(By the way, politics came up that time because I mentioned to him The Bulwark as a place he might like, since it is run by conservatives. He said he knows who’s running it, and they’re not conservative. Sorry.)
Nevertheless, I’m afraid that people like you, Mona, and David are in a better position to speak to these people than I am because I assume you have a better understanding of how they got here than I do. I hate to say it, but you travelled the same road as they until you reached that fork. Shit, in some sense you were blazing the trail.
I have financially supported Sarah’s Republican Accountability Project because she is doing that. I support the Bulwark because it’s doing that. But I think your time would be much better spent reaching out to those persuadables than it is telling the Democrats what they should be doing, even when you might be right. After all, it wasn’t the Democrats who put a lunatic in the White House. And for what it’s worth, if you’re going to lay any of the blame on Hillary for being the second least popular candidate in the county in 2016, take some ownership of your contribution for that before that fork in the road.
I agree with everything Tupper so eloquently stated. I too am weary of continuous resurrecting of the age issue. There’s nothing that can be done about it unless the Biden campaign knows of a way to effectively address it in paid advertising.
But it’s not just the age issue that needs to be put to bed. The same can be said for crime and immigration. The White House and the Democrats are well aware of these and there political toxicity. They have policy solutions but they don’t receive the coverage in the media. Although I read a good piece by Greg Sargent in the Post today explaining the immigration package--which is tied to Ukraine funding--the Congressional Democrats are negotiating with the GOP. Politico covered it in its Playbook podcast this morning, as well. The Dems are making substantial proposals for immigration reform. I wish Charlie would take the time to learn about them.
The persuadables are the swing voters in the swing states. Those are the only voters that matter because they will decide who wins the EC. So The Bulwark should set up some kind of pro-democracy shop in AZ, GA, PA & WI. Easy for Charlie as he lives in WI.
I said as much a few months back. I'm not hiding from Biden's age, I just can't listen to talk about his age 5+ days a week for months on end. Similarly, I love JVL. From everything I've learned of him, he's a good man, husband, father, and citizen. However, I find myself not reading his posts or listening to his podcasts because the negativity is just so profound. We may really be headed for disaster and it's important to talk about it, but I, as a human being, simply can't sustain it any longer. I've had to walk away in order to preserve my own emotional sanity.
Yes! Thank you for this. I would just add that Hillary won the popular vote. She wasn’t perfect but no candidate is. We’ll never know for sure but Comey was probably the nail in her coffin. Swing voters lost her the electoral college. I love The Bulwark but they really need to include this context more instead of crapping all over the dems for her candidacy over and over again.
And please don’t gaslight me by saying that sexism wasn’t, and isn’t, a factor or Hillary. Nothing riles up the frothing masses like a smart, accomplished, fearless woman, confidently and unashamedly doing her thing.
Somewhat ironically, I have always predicted that the first female president will be a Republican. Misogyny can be overcome if enough vitriol and hate emanates from the candidate herself, whoever she may be. Republicans have no use for a wise, thoughtful, compassionate female leader; that’s exactly what they DON’T want.
Also see the focus groups of trump / republican voters who very succinctly told Sarah that they wouldn’t even vote for a republican woman because they don’t believe they can do the job like a man can.
Charlie—
I greatly enjoyed your discussions yesterday with David French and with Mona, as I always do.
A few comments: First, on the age thing. It’s not that we are putting our heads in the sand. It’s that we have heard it, recognize it, think the only thing that can be done about it is for Biden to try to look as spry as he can. As a segue to my next point, repeating the same point over and over has crossed the line into a harangue and has become, frankly, a little insulting.
On the topic of speaking to the “persuadables”. I agree that “persuadables” need to be persuaded. We need to define our terms here, though. Do we consider two-time Trump voters as being in that bucket? If so, as a lifelong Democrat who considers himself a moderate, I have to tell you I have run out of ideas for how to talk to those people. I have some in my family and immediate social circle and, to be honest, the condition of keeping them there has been avoiding the subject of politics altogether. My brother, with whom I agree on nearly every substantive issue but this one have sworn off politics since the Obama era. I broached politics a year ago and within minutes the phrase ”Biden Crime Family” was spoken, and we shut it down again.
(By the way, politics came up that time because I mentioned to him The Bulwark as a place he might like, since it is run by conservatives. He said he knows who’s running it, and they’re not conservative. Sorry.)
Nevertheless, I’m afraid that people like you, Mona, and David are in a better position to speak to these people than I am because I assume you have a better understanding of how they got here than I do. I hate to say it, but you travelled the same road as they until you reached that fork. Shit, in some sense you were blazing the trail.
I have financially supported Sarah’s Republican Accountability Project because she is doing that. I support the Bulwark because it’s doing that. But I think your time would be much better spent reaching out to those persuadables than it is telling the Democrats what they should be doing, even when you might be right. After all, it wasn’t the Democrats who put a lunatic in the White House. And for what it’s worth, if you’re going to lay any of the blame on Hillary for being the second least popular candidate in the county in 2016, take some ownership of your contribution for that before that fork in the road.
I agree with everything Tupper so eloquently stated. I too am weary of continuous resurrecting of the age issue. There’s nothing that can be done about it unless the Biden campaign knows of a way to effectively address it in paid advertising.
But it’s not just the age issue that needs to be put to bed. The same can be said for crime and immigration. The White House and the Democrats are well aware of these and there political toxicity. They have policy solutions but they don’t receive the coverage in the media. Although I read a good piece by Greg Sargent in the Post today explaining the immigration package--which is tied to Ukraine funding--the Congressional Democrats are negotiating with the GOP. Politico covered it in its Playbook podcast this morning, as well. The Dems are making substantial proposals for immigration reform. I wish Charlie would take the time to learn about them.
The persuadables are the swing voters in the swing states. Those are the only voters that matter because they will decide who wins the EC. So The Bulwark should set up some kind of pro-democracy shop in AZ, GA, PA & WI. Easy for Charlie as he lives in WI.
"repeating the same point over and over"
I said as much a few months back. I'm not hiding from Biden's age, I just can't listen to talk about his age 5+ days a week for months on end. Similarly, I love JVL. From everything I've learned of him, he's a good man, husband, father, and citizen. However, I find myself not reading his posts or listening to his podcasts because the negativity is just so profound. We may really be headed for disaster and it's important to talk about it, but I, as a human being, simply can't sustain it any longer. I've had to walk away in order to preserve my own emotional sanity.
Yessss, Tupper! Thank you!
Yes! Thank you for this. I would just add that Hillary won the popular vote. She wasn’t perfect but no candidate is. We’ll never know for sure but Comey was probably the nail in her coffin. Swing voters lost her the electoral college. I love The Bulwark but they really need to include this context more instead of crapping all over the dems for her candidacy over and over again.
Can we agitate for a, “Hillary wasn’t always right, but DEPLORABLE’S was....” T-shirt on the BULWARK website??
This!
And please don’t gaslight me by saying that sexism wasn’t, and isn’t, a factor or Hillary. Nothing riles up the frothing masses like a smart, accomplished, fearless woman, confidently and unashamedly doing her thing.
Somewhat ironically, I have always predicted that the first female president will be a Republican. Misogyny can be overcome if enough vitriol and hate emanates from the candidate herself, whoever she may be. Republicans have no use for a wise, thoughtful, compassionate female leader; that’s exactly what they DON’T want.
Someone truly awful. Like Kari “Paws on Tim” Lake.
but MTG for POTUS has a certain ring to it....
Ohh how I wish you were wrong. How I wish... 😏
I wish I was wrong too . . . And maybe I am!
And don’t let all the pious, god fearing religious men off the hook either, All men are created equal. Just ask Mr. Johnson.
🎯 indeed plus see: Harris, Kamala
Also see the focus groups of trump / republican voters who very succinctly told Sarah that they wouldn’t even vote for a republican woman because they don’t believe they can do the job like a man can.
Standing ovation currently happening in my dining room! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏. Thank you Tupper.
yes Yes YES to this! ⬆️
Yes to every word.
Brava.
Well said, Tupper.
I do wonder what his conversations with JVL in this subject are like.