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JF's avatar

“Biden’s decision to withdraw” from Afghanistan? I’m pretty sure it was Trump’s decision to withdraw, and Biden followed the pre-determined time table already set in motion.

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Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

It's not like the Trump administration would have done better leaving Afghanistan. Once Trump decided to negotiate behind the back of the Afghan government, the disastrous withdrawal was foradained.

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Paul K. Ogden's avatar

The withdrawal didn't have to be a disaster. Biden did bungle that badly. But would Trump have bungled the withdrawal? Of course he would have.

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TomD's avatar

The DoD and teh CIA told him the government would hold out for at last two weeks. If they had, everything probably would have worked out. In fact, the Taliban was in Kabul as soon as they could ride their crappy motorbikes there.

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SandyG's avatar

So the DoD and the CIA bungled it?

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TomD's avatar

Trump ensured the government would have no reason to fight. The DoD should have told Biden that.

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knowltok's avatar

I'm no expert on the particulars, so I'll defer to those who are, but I'm not convinced that it didn't have to be a disaster. I can certainly conceive of it going much worse. Not to minimize things, but more Americans died in the Blackhawk down incident.

We had a wolf by the ears and came away bleeding. Not exactly shocking.

And as for bungling, which US president in memory would have reached in with direct control and prevented those suicide bombings?

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SandyG's avatar

"We had a wolf by the ears and came away bleeding" - well put.

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Kate Fall's avatar

It really grinds my gears that Trump has suffered no reputational damage from giving into the Taliban.

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JF's avatar

Keeping all Trump’s transgressions front and center to the public would require a special 24/7 channel devoted to just that topic. Actually . . . I think there’s a niche, untapped opportunity there.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

I was thinking of starting a newsletter called "My Sh!t List" to remind people of the second tier actors who are terrible, who led us here over the past few decades. Folks like John Yoo, Karl Rove, Kellyanne Conway, Eileen Cannon, etc. With occasional fun days like "Verbal Tippers" and "People Who Don't Use Turn Signals."

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Jeff the Original's avatar

LOL...I was just driving this week behind a BMW who hit their brake lights unexpectedly and I was thinking that perhaps they had a car issue or that an animal ran in front of them...and then they turned right into a driveway hidden by the trees. It's a bit of a desolate wooded area where you wouldn't expect someone to be pulling into a driveway.

I went on and on in my mind after that wondering how hard is it to just flip on your blinker...

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

We get that in Richmond on the daily. Our personal favorite is turning left from the right hand lane. Traffic enforcement in Richmond was negligible before 2020, now it's non-existent.

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TomD's avatar

I think for cops Covid was a kind of golden era. "Drive around, but whatever you don't get within 6 feet of anyone... .

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Kate Fall's avatar

When I lived in central VA, we used to call that the Virginia Swing. Now I'm back in New York with the NY left (making a left on a red light). Oh well, at least it's not Maryland drivers.

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Eva Seifert's avatar

Isn't that only on one-way streets?

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

Maryland is universally the worst.

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JF's avatar

You are not alone! After Trump’s election and administration, I started a list of things that need to be addressed in our governance - a big category included things I thought were laws, but were actually just “norms” based on honor. I also have a photo file of screenshots of “Ugly Trump photos” - it’s now over 260. Just a weird salve to my psychic wounds over what we are enduring.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

I get it. I can't tell you how much of a thrill I get when they use a bad photo of him on the news, because I know how angry it makes him. It's so petty, but Trump brings out the worst in everyone.

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JF's avatar

Exactly. Petty begets petty. How low can we go?

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

Now all I'm seeing is an image of Trump attempting to limbo -- and the petty part of me is loving it.

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JF's avatar

Haha! I’m pretty sure they’d be picking him up off the floor at 2 degrees off vertical!

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Carolyn Phipps's avatar

I think that's a good idea but what are "verbal tippers?"

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

Haha, verbal tippers are people who make a big point of telling you -- the server -- how much they enjoyed everything and what wonderful service you gave them -- before they leave a dollar and walk out.

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Alex Dash's avatar

Meager tippers are almost as much an insult as are no tippers. I've never understood why anyone would stiff wait staff. Not easy work, low hourly rate.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

It's the 15-20% of a-holes who ruin it for everyone. The absolute worst are the Jesus people who leave you a card saying you can be saved in Christ. Thanks for the "tip."

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Milton Otto's avatar

Biden actually delayed the withdrawal that Trump negotiated by several months to great criticism from Trump and MAGA.

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TomD's avatar

I have read another bizarre aspect. When Trump knew he was going to have to pick up and leave the White House, he had his former bodyman turned White House HR director McEntee (of all people) draft an order for immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan. He did, and Trump signed it. Like his appointment of Sydney Powell to be AG, it went nowhere.

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JF's avatar

It’s hard to remember all these important details. “Flood the zone with s*#t” really works as intended.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

Predetermined timetable written in an international agreement.

The Taliban nodded agreeably as we did stupid at that negotiation.

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Eva Seifert's avatar

Not "we" - the Orange Snake did that.

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TomD's avatar

Nice of Trump to agree that the Taliban could be referred to as "The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan." Must have cheered our allies in the government, the ones Trump agreed could be kept away from the negotiating table.

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JF's avatar

Thanks, Kathleen. Your memory is more detailed than mine. It’s an important distinction but even Never Trumpers make this error frequently, attributing that withdrawal to Biden. Just like the 20% of poll respondents who believe Biden was responsible for reversing Roe v Wade. But I expect journalists to do better.

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