There’s a map out there showing where UFOs are sighted most often - strongly centered on North America 🧐. UFO sightings over India or Nigeria - very populous countries, or rural countries with very dark skies - not so much.
Did that pick up after the government came out and acknowledged the presence of UAPs in the last 5-ish years?
I maintain that it's more likely that if these things are of a different origin that it's more likely that they're humans in the future doing time travel back to our period (think trillionaires from the future doing OceanGate-esque time travel) than it is an off-world species coming here just to look at us. When Cortez landed in the new world he didn't just hide in the bushes and take notes on the indigenous peoples living in the New world. He came to the New World and took the resources and killed or enslaved the natives. Off-world aliens wouldn't travel the distances of time and space (they'd be several decades older by the time they get here) to get here just to take notes. They'd be pillaging and robbing our water and metals by now, not sneaking around and spying for some 70+ years (Americans have said we've been visited by aliens since at least the 50's).
Just some food for his thought I guess. I don't believe in aliens personally, but if the UAPs were from off-world, it's much more likely that they're humans from the future than aliens from another solar system.
1. You don't have to believe in aliens for them to believe in you.
2. You are ascribing human motivations to alien species that are at a minimum, far beyond our medium term theoretical technical capabilities.
3. Even within a human centric mindset, who is to say that the last 1/3 of the western spiral arm of the Milky Way isn't set aside as a nature preserve? A civilization that can travel the stars, harness cold fusion, fight with laser swords, and transcend to pure energy might not have any need to plunder the only planet with intelligent life for say 100 light years in any direction.
Now all that said, I don't put any more credence in alien visitation than I do the time travel idea (now THEY need resources), which is to say very little, but not zero. I just want to be careful in closing off possibilities based on our very limited understanding of things like xeno-biology (BIO 297), comparative galactic civilization trends (GalHist 332), galactic economics after the collapse of the Flanian Pobble Bead (Econ 450).
Do the same comparison you did in part 3, but with New World primitives and Cortez’s people from Europe. Who’s to say back then that an advanced European economy that could harness the wind with sails to travel to the other side of the ocean system and who had firearms that used gunpowder not yet invented in the new world would have need for simple relics like gold/silver or arable land?
They could have ascribed native motivations to cultures beyond their medium (Europeans) like you state in part 2 and still ended up being pretty close to right. Just because another society (human or otherwise) doesn’t really need a thing doesn’t mean they won’t take a thing if they can find a use case for it elsewhere and make it available for sale or trade.
I think the difference in part 3 is one of relative difference in technological abilities being different. The aliens with warp abilities, terraforming abilities, etc., etc., may well be more like we currently are with those remote tribes we just leave alone. They don't have to be of course, but with the rapid increase in technological advancement, the gap between human cultures cannot be measured in years, and the gap between us now and primitive tribes might be more illustrative. Think if we found an undiscovered island in the South Pacific today, quickly scanned it, and found that while nice, it didn't have any oil, rare earth metals, etc. I wouldn't guarantee that we'd leave them alone (perhaps study them of course), but the concept would certainly be entertained.
As for your second paragraph, you are right that another society MIGHT take what they can, but that cannot be assumed, just because that's what humans do. Their value structure would be...wait for it...alien.
Expanding on your interesting future-time-travellers theory, and accepting that every "contact" from the future makes some change in what would have been "the past" without that contact, what would be different if we had not seen them, meaning, what past event has been changed to permit them (or limit their time here), to come back and "visit" us?
"and accepting that every "contact" from the future makes some change in what would have been "the past""
I don't really agree with this statement, as they could have visited here without being noticed by anyone, thereby leading to no changes. My whole point is that *exactly because* nothing changed when they "visited" here that it's more likely that they're rich humans from the future doing time tourism than beings from another world because those beings would have simply taken what they wanted and killed anyone who resisted.
This all assumes that these UAPs are not from earth and/or not from our current time. And if they are time tourists from the future, who here on earth is going to tell them "please stop visiting us"? If rich people from the present routinely tell whole governments to fuck off when it comes to things like tax collections, what makes you think rich humans from the future give a shit what governments from the past tell them what to do?
Sorry, but if they visited without being noticed, then in all likelihood nothing in the past was changed by their being here. On the other hand, if we see them, if we chase them with jets, if we photograph them and store "things" in Area 51, then those are, by definition, things that would not have occurred but for us noticing them. And those are changes in what would have been but for those things occurring. Perhaps by our seeing them, etc., the interest in UAPs and extraterritorials got a boost it might not otherwise have gotten, and that interest increased the likelihood that time travel would have been developed over what it might have been without those events occurring.
All I was doing was spinning your hypothesis a bit further based upon your suggestion that the sightings etc. did not have to be extraterritorials.
I mean, if they lost an air/time craft in the Nevada or New Mexico desert the way OceanGate lost a submersible at the bottom of the drink, then the after-effects would be that Lockheed Skunkworks got a look at future tech some centuries earlier than it was available and that out military tech advantage over other countries in the present reflects that, which would then make Lockheed Martin more money in the long term than it otherwise would have. Shit like that I guess. But if they’re just here occasionally being spotted at a time when deep fake videos are coming out then their being spotted could just as be chalked up as another fake video anyway.
OK, but who knows? And how can anyone learn that? Perhaps it put us on a wrong track for the theory of long-distance space travel by discovering whatever might be discovered by Lockheed or anyone else. And, maybe by being chalked up as fake videos NOW, we then reduce the chance of game-changing, earth-shattering discoveries which don't get made, effecting the likelihood that they will visit, en mass, in the future. What should we deduce, if anything, from the possibility that our noticing them returned them to a different point in time than they left and what effect did that have (or not) on when the next sighting occurred?
We’re more joking than serious, but we ARE talking about it I guess. I knew I shouldn’t have posited my “trillionaires doing space/time tourism” alt-theory of extra-temporal life forms here 😂🤦♂️
There’s a map out there showing where UFOs are sighted most often - strongly centered on North America 🧐. UFO sightings over India or Nigeria - very populous countries, or rural countries with very dark skies - not so much.
How old is he?
Did that pick up after the government came out and acknowledged the presence of UAPs in the last 5-ish years?
I maintain that it's more likely that if these things are of a different origin that it's more likely that they're humans in the future doing time travel back to our period (think trillionaires from the future doing OceanGate-esque time travel) than it is an off-world species coming here just to look at us. When Cortez landed in the new world he didn't just hide in the bushes and take notes on the indigenous peoples living in the New world. He came to the New World and took the resources and killed or enslaved the natives. Off-world aliens wouldn't travel the distances of time and space (they'd be several decades older by the time they get here) to get here just to take notes. They'd be pillaging and robbing our water and metals by now, not sneaking around and spying for some 70+ years (Americans have said we've been visited by aliens since at least the 50's).
Just some food for his thought I guess. I don't believe in aliens personally, but if the UAPs were from off-world, it's much more likely that they're humans from the future than aliens from another solar system.
1. You don't have to believe in aliens for them to believe in you.
2. You are ascribing human motivations to alien species that are at a minimum, far beyond our medium term theoretical technical capabilities.
3. Even within a human centric mindset, who is to say that the last 1/3 of the western spiral arm of the Milky Way isn't set aside as a nature preserve? A civilization that can travel the stars, harness cold fusion, fight with laser swords, and transcend to pure energy might not have any need to plunder the only planet with intelligent life for say 100 light years in any direction.
Now all that said, I don't put any more credence in alien visitation than I do the time travel idea (now THEY need resources), which is to say very little, but not zero. I just want to be careful in closing off possibilities based on our very limited understanding of things like xeno-biology (BIO 297), comparative galactic civilization trends (GalHist 332), galactic economics after the collapse of the Flanian Pobble Bead (Econ 450).
Do the same comparison you did in part 3, but with New World primitives and Cortez’s people from Europe. Who’s to say back then that an advanced European economy that could harness the wind with sails to travel to the other side of the ocean system and who had firearms that used gunpowder not yet invented in the new world would have need for simple relics like gold/silver or arable land?
They could have ascribed native motivations to cultures beyond their medium (Europeans) like you state in part 2 and still ended up being pretty close to right. Just because another society (human or otherwise) doesn’t really need a thing doesn’t mean they won’t take a thing if they can find a use case for it elsewhere and make it available for sale or trade.
I think the difference in part 3 is one of relative difference in technological abilities being different. The aliens with warp abilities, terraforming abilities, etc., etc., may well be more like we currently are with those remote tribes we just leave alone. They don't have to be of course, but with the rapid increase in technological advancement, the gap between human cultures cannot be measured in years, and the gap between us now and primitive tribes might be more illustrative. Think if we found an undiscovered island in the South Pacific today, quickly scanned it, and found that while nice, it didn't have any oil, rare earth metals, etc. I wouldn't guarantee that we'd leave them alone (perhaps study them of course), but the concept would certainly be entertained.
As for your second paragraph, you are right that another society MIGHT take what they can, but that cannot be assumed, just because that's what humans do. Their value structure would be...wait for it...alien.
Expanding on your interesting future-time-travellers theory, and accepting that every "contact" from the future makes some change in what would have been "the past" without that contact, what would be different if we had not seen them, meaning, what past event has been changed to permit them (or limit their time here), to come back and "visit" us?
"and accepting that every "contact" from the future makes some change in what would have been "the past""
I don't really agree with this statement, as they could have visited here without being noticed by anyone, thereby leading to no changes. My whole point is that *exactly because* nothing changed when they "visited" here that it's more likely that they're rich humans from the future doing time tourism than beings from another world because those beings would have simply taken what they wanted and killed anyone who resisted.
This all assumes that these UAPs are not from earth and/or not from our current time. And if they are time tourists from the future, who here on earth is going to tell them "please stop visiting us"? If rich people from the present routinely tell whole governments to fuck off when it comes to things like tax collections, what makes you think rich humans from the future give a shit what governments from the past tell them what to do?
Sorry, but if they visited without being noticed, then in all likelihood nothing in the past was changed by their being here. On the other hand, if we see them, if we chase them with jets, if we photograph them and store "things" in Area 51, then those are, by definition, things that would not have occurred but for us noticing them. And those are changes in what would have been but for those things occurring. Perhaps by our seeing them, etc., the interest in UAPs and extraterritorials got a boost it might not otherwise have gotten, and that interest increased the likelihood that time travel would have been developed over what it might have been without those events occurring.
All I was doing was spinning your hypothesis a bit further based upon your suggestion that the sightings etc. did not have to be extraterritorials.
I mean, if they lost an air/time craft in the Nevada or New Mexico desert the way OceanGate lost a submersible at the bottom of the drink, then the after-effects would be that Lockheed Skunkworks got a look at future tech some centuries earlier than it was available and that out military tech advantage over other countries in the present reflects that, which would then make Lockheed Martin more money in the long term than it otherwise would have. Shit like that I guess. But if they’re just here occasionally being spotted at a time when deep fake videos are coming out then their being spotted could just as be chalked up as another fake video anyway.
OK, but who knows? And how can anyone learn that? Perhaps it put us on a wrong track for the theory of long-distance space travel by discovering whatever might be discovered by Lockheed or anyone else. And, maybe by being chalked up as fake videos NOW, we then reduce the chance of game-changing, earth-shattering discoveries which don't get made, effecting the likelihood that they will visit, en mass, in the future. What should we deduce, if anything, from the possibility that our noticing them returned them to a different point in time than they left and what effect did that have (or not) on when the next sighting occurred?
I seriously believe that the baby George Santos was carrying around was actually himself, and he’d come back from the future. It all fits.
Anything to distract from Biden's ever increasing age.
We’re more joking than serious, but we ARE talking about it I guess. I knew I shouldn’t have posited my “trillionaires doing space/time tourism” alt-theory of extra-temporal life forms here 😂🤦♂️