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Elect a Dictator to Save Democracy!?

November 22, 2023
Notes
Transcript
The gang discusses former Rep. Peter Meijer, who voted to impeach Donald Trump over January 6, and his insane justification as to why he will vote for Trump over Joe Biden. Plus, DeSantis’ campaign is starting to play the blame game, while Nikki Haley’s shows (a little) signs of life.
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:05

    Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level. If that’s what we’re still calling it, take a week off and all of a sudden we’re changing the name of the show. I’m JBL, here with my two best friends, Sarah Longwell, and Timothy Miller. Of the Bulwark, happy Thanksgiving to everybody.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:21

    I won’t even say all who celebrate because everyone celebrates Thanksgiving because it’s the best. You know what I’m saying before? Jerry, Jerry.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:27

    You know what I’m thankful for? I’m thankful you’re back, buddy. We really missed you.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:31

    Cool. I’m also thankful to have you back. Whoa. That’s cool. Thing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:35

    Does that happen for me too?
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:36

    No. Just me. Just me. It’s fascinating.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:39

    Okay. That’s only for the YouTube folks. Only our YouTube pages crushing, by the way. JBL It is. I’m also grateful to have you back.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:47

    And, yeah, I mean, I think maybe not having your malign influence and your kind of the the strong man, you know, fist with which you run this program gave us the opening to kind of discuss, you know, our brain identity. You know, a little bit more. You know, and I think that’s really what it was. You know, you rule us with an iron fist, and now when you’re going sometimes, you see things through a different light.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:09

    I am one hundred percent open to changing the name of the show.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:12

    Yeah. Because it’s true. If somebody’s like, why did you call it the next level? You would be like,
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:16

    I don’t recall.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:17

    Why? No idea. And and also and they’ll be like, well, what does it mean?
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:22

    Well, sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:22

    We’re not all.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:23

    It’s a video game. Right? We’ve just gone to the next level. It’s got to turn it to eleven.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:27

    To turn it to eleven.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:28

    See, this one, this one goes to eleven.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:30

    Anyway, we’ve got some creative suggestions. So we’re
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:33

    gonna Just tell us what a better one is. That’s all. Yeah. Don’t tell us it’s bad. Tell us what the better one is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:40

    Okay. Quick show notes. No, Sunday next level this week. We’re taking a holiday off for it. And just a quick note in case I forget to say to the end because I’m a little scattered this week.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:52

    Happy Thanksgiving to all of you guys out there. Please travel safe. Please, Just have a good one because we love you. They’re normally you say that stuff at the end of the show, but I’m doing it at the top.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:01

    We have some good Sundays coming, by the way, in the can, including one where JBL’s gonna rain, so I’m excited. Oh,
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:07

    I’m so excited.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:08

    And and Scott galloway from Sunday if you missed it. I’ve gotten more texts about it than anyone we’ve done so far. People love prof g. It was a little kinda hurt my feelings a little bit because I, you know, I kind of see myself as sort of the star. The star.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:20

    Right. You feel like you’re really the star of the show, and the guest is there to set you up.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:24

    You’re the star in our heart, Tim.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:25

    Thank you, Sarah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:27

    Ron DeSantis has figured out the problem that he’s having and that it that his never backed down Super PAC has done a bad job. So, NBC News yesterday
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:38

    broke the story that there was nearly
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:38

    a fist fight between row, and one of Ron DeSantis confidantes, which I guess means person who’s familiar with the governor thinking, but is absolutely not coordinating with the governor’s campaign. And, they were having a meeting at the never
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:56

    back down. It didn’t seem like there was an FTC violation that happened during this fist fight, like prior or post the fist fight. It seems like there might have been a, the federal election commission’s kind of asleep at the switch, though. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:08

    I do have to say the the entire coordination thing seems insane to me. Like, the the rules around Superpaks and can’t be so so what? So you’re you’re, you know, I’m a butt drinking buddy of Ron DeSantis, and we just hang out and he, like, pop off about how boy he really wishes his super pack could do x y z, and I’m on the board as
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:26

    I go it over now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:27

    Why aren’t we doing x y z? And that anyway Can
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:30

    I just tell you what’s so annoying just on this compliance point? Is ideal with packs and c fours and c threes. And we are so careful about it. Like, we take it very seriously and we check with lawyers before we do stuff. And these guys just have full on meetings, where they’re just like, like, no wall.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:48

    No there’s supposed to be, like, cooling down periods. Now granted, I don’t do, like, politics politics with candidates. So maybe they just all violate things and no one cares. But, like, this seems insane to me based on what I know about the rules of the game.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:01

    Your lawyer is unnoticed that his billable hours is about to go down. Like, you’re looking at these Rhonda santa’s stories going, I’m I’m tired of paying you for this Okay. Like, these fuckers are just doing whatever they want.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:11

    Let me set you guys up since you’re both political professionals. What happens is Ron DeSantis confidants on the board of Never backed down are very angry that the Never backed down attacks on Nikki Haley are actually sticking to DeSantis and hurting his numbers and that it’s all very bad because the never back down hasn’t helped really, and his numbers keep going down. So the solution is to set up a competing Super PAC called Fight Right. It’s fucking guys. And, and that’s what that’s gonna solve everything because reasons.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:52

    The answer is always more money for the consultants. Always happy to any problem. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:59

    But also, here’s the thing. Here’s how you know a campaign is succeeding. It’s like they’re at the phase where everyone points the finger at each other to be like it’s your fault we’re losing. Right? Like, the death spiral of the DeSantis campaign, I was making a joke about it, winning.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:14

    This is actually, like, what a file looks like. And it’s a particular phase of the death spiral, right, where blame begins to get assigned. And you know that it’s about who gets assigned to the blame because they leaked the crap out of this story. I read this story yesterday with my political consultant hat on in a giddy kind of way because they had so much color from the room, which means someone’s walked out of that room called NBC was like, let me give you a play by play here and they said, You have a stick up your ass Scott Roe Fumed at Wagner, who’s a member of the Never back down board. Why don’t you come over here and get it Wagner responded, rising from his chair?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:50

    He was quickly restrained by two fellow board members. The interaction was relayed to NBC News by a source who was in the room. This is not winning, my friends.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:59

    Is it is it wrong that that change got me a little sexually charged off? I was like, oh, why don’t you come over here and get it? This is Rose’s second fight. He’s been in during the campaign. Now the the man that has been so much ink spilled about the genius, the great Zengali, the great strategist, the number one draft pick, Trump wanted Ron DeSantis wanted everybody wanted Jevero Glen Youngkin.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:22

    And and he spent about a hundred million dollars to to lose half his vote share and gotten into and had to be had to be held back from fist fights twice like, once we have his own board member and then one It shows
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:34

    how passionate he is, Tim.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:35

    Yeah. In Iowa, at a bar, there’s a random Donald Trump supporter. He almost got it in with. So Not great, you know, not a great time. It also there I think there’s this the serious element of this is all campaigns that are losing have leaks, so I don’t wanna act like.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:48

    Like that. It’s not that this is unique to the scientist. But these types of vicious personal recriminations also say something about the candidate. Right. And I mean, you know, the JEM jumping, we certainly have leaks.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:00

    No doubt. I don’t want any of my journalist friends listening to be like, okay, Tim. Don’t, you know, don’t try to reframe it. But, like, It wasn’t this. I, Jeb took responsibility, mostly.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:09

    Right? Internally. And, and sure, there were disagreements of opinion, and there were certain leaks and donors, there were leaks from donors we’re, like, we’re all idiots. But, like, within the team that Jeb had control over, like, you know, we are mostly pretty much good soldiers because know, he was taking responsibility, and we didn’t wanna embarrass him. And, he was already being embarrassed enough just by the nature of, like, being a family scion and having, you know, than just totally face planting.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:34

    And so, you know, I think that the fact that Ron DeSantis, like, it almost reads to me trumpian. Like that he’s he’s spurring this on at this point. Right? Like that he’s pissed. He’s happy that his buddy wagner over here is point.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:48

    Like, he wants them to leave it. Right? Like, they want, like, there’s Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:52

    That’s right. This is Jeffrio’s fault.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:54

    In DeSantis world, they want that out there. Right? And I think that speaks a lot to to the desantis’s character, which is not that surprising.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:01

    And also to just because there’s a million things in this story that are great, but this is one of them. The reason that there is now a new pack. Right? They they claim in the story the ostensible reason is that never back down is too, like, connected to Ron DeSantis, everyone knows it’s him. And so when they attack Nikki Haley, they’re getting a ton of blowback.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:20

    And so, actually, what they need is a new pack. Right, from the Tallahassee people, which means that what’s happening is there is a split between like Ron DeSantis wants a pack with just his own people in it. Are doing the work, which means he’s starting to get to a point where he wants to shut Jeff Rowe out. Problem is Roe has another hundred million dollars he’s sitting on. So that seems like a bad thing, but can I read you my
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:42

    It’s a great sign for capitalism? I want you to read that, but I just I just I want JBL’s two cents on the fact that the great You know, the great and smart people who pulled themselves up by the reboot straps to make so much money are so brilliant that they’ve given Jevreaux a hundred million, which is just sitting there for a dead campaign.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:56

    Look. It’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:57

    too much protection, Sarah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:59

    Look, people who are in the business should know, and you guys can tell them that one of the clauses that consultants like Jeffro have is that when performance is bad like this, they give the money they earned back. Right? Isn’t that standard in their contracts?
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:13

    All that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:14

    Right? We don’t eat if you don’t eat. Isn’t that how campaign consultants work?
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:17

    Or I’m sorry, sir. What was the other anecdote? Sorry. Go ahead.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:20

    Well, just since you mentioned donors, so one of the things about this is, like, they raised so much money in the early days. Right? Like, my guess is is that of this two hundred million, they raised a hundred and fifty of it. I could go back and figure this out, but, like, back in the end of
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:34

    Memorial Day.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:35

    Yeah. Right? Like, such a long time ago when everybody thought DeSantis was the next thing. And so What you have to do is you really need to make fun of the people who would give them money now. But here’s here’s a quote from a donor that I love.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:47

    I’m a bit agitated. These guys have spent all this money for no return. One DeSantis contributor said in explaining the hesitation that deep pocketed donors have whenever back down asks for more cash. You don’t just keep throwing money at radio shack. Oh.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:58

    Radio shack. What a deep parent?
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:07

    Keep throwing money at GameStop.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:08

    Yeah. Maybe it’ll be a meme stock at some point where people just make fun of Ron DeSantis so much that they can don’t is that is there a way that we can turn the DeSantis campaign into a Bitcoin that these guys can kind of invest in?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:20

    I don’t know, but somebody should go to figure out who gave that quote. Somebody at someone who lost a lot of money on radio shack about fifteen years ago, because that person’s seeing some parallels right now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:32

    Yeah. I I mean, I guess my
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:33

    my bigger my bigger
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:33

    picture thought on this is that Ron DeSantis and his the people around him and the donors around them have a problem perceiving reality. I think they never understood the reality of this campaign. They did not understand the reality of the electorate’s relationship with Donald Trump. They did not understand the reality of the consequences for challenging Trump and losing. All these things were obvious to us.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:05

    And anybody outside of the Republican world, they didn’t pick up on. And this strikes me. It’s it is like living in an authoritarian state. Right? When you’re behind the Berlin wall, your perception of reality is shaped by by Stalin.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:21

    Right? And and the the Soviet Union controls how you under stand what the world is like around here. And that’s basically the what the Republican party is right now. It’s an authoritarian state. And they can’t even see how the contours of the world look.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:37

    So why should we think that they’re ever gonna be able to overthrow the the strong man?
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:41

    Is my only push back to that is that we are not Clearvoyant that, like, if you went back and listened to us circa January twenty twenty three, February. Like, Ron DeSantis looked awfully strong. I was thinking back to somebody asked me to do one of these, It’s called, like, debate squared or something. I can’t remember the thing. But it’s like you had to pick a position, and they offered, it was against Elaine Kmart, who is wonderful, and they were like, Who do you want?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:07

    The thing was resolved, Trump will be the next president Ron DeSantis will be the next president. They were like, asked me which one I wanted. Trump or DeSantis, And I was like, oh, I can make either argument. Like, I’ll take whichever one. Elaine doesn’t want.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:17

    And the lane was like, no, no, no, you do it. And I was like, I’ll take Trump. And even at the time, My arguments for DeSantis were stronger. Like, my team was kinda like, why are you taking Trump? We have so much information from the focus groups that people want DeSantis right now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:31

    And I was like, I don’t know. I’m just gonna I’m just gonna take my worst case scenario because I wanna make the argument for, like, how bad it would be if that happened and I don’t want people to feel safe about it. But I just wanna remind us that there was a world in which the donors had a pretty clear shot with DeSantis and so I don’t begrudge them that I’ve begrudge them the last four months. And anybody who gives them money now is an idiot.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:55

    Yeah. I’ll tell you who I’ve begrudge Jeff Rowe. And this is where, I mean, DeSantis Ron DeSantis is bad, but the campaign, the the Super PAC strategy has been terrible. And so this is I agree with that. I was basically fifty fifty Ron DeSantis and Trump last.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:06

    And JVL is always more pro. That’s what I have with the t shirt. Yeah. But I I was basically fifty fifty. A gun to my head, I think I would have taken Trump at every step, but I was close to fifty fifty at one point with DeSantis very early on in the winter.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:18

    But that was incumbent on the idea that DeSantis was going to run a different type of campaign and had a different type of appeal, than than what we had seen in the past from Republicans going up against Trump. And like the fact that they ran the exact same campaign that Ted Cruz ran eight years ago against a guy that has even more hardened support than he did then. Like, was insane. It was madness. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:44

    And so this, and this is how you begrudge the donors kind of, which is like, I know that that politics is not their expertise. They shouldn’t be getting their hands in the cookie jar on what strategy to use. Are we using TV? Are we using mail? Are we using digital?
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:55

    But You would think that before you gave a couple million dollars to to somebody, that you would say, like, do you guys have a plan? Do you have strategy here. Or, like, maybe I can dole this out in parts, or you’re just gonna take an eight percent vague or whatever Jeff’s taking and run TV ads about how Rhonda Sanders is the one true conservative. Because if you’re gonna do that, I I I can give my millions to something else. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:19

    I could invest in Microsoft or something. Right? Or it’s, you know, an AI startup. Or I can give my money to the poor. Like, I don’t have to I don’t have to do give it to advertisements.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:28

    It’s not gonna work. Could’ve given your money somewhere else. Like, you don’t you don’t have to just give three million to Jeff Rowe and say, oh, you’re the same TV on your end eight years ago. You’re gonna run him again and move out Heidi Cruise and put in Casey Antis. Like, I don’t I don’t think that was a great plan.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:41

    Also, I just wanna say Jeff Rowe is doing some weird thing where he’s taking sixty cents on the dollar. For this. Like, he’s doing some all encompassing. We do soup to nuts every single thing here. And his strategy, he and so first of all, yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:56

    I mean, it is, like, there’s consultant money and then there’s, like, what Jeff Rose doing, which is insane. And I hope I hope he makes it all on this because if anybody ever hires him again, then nobody should take that person
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:07

    to the front of the jump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:08

    Yeah. This is so embarrassing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:09

    Hundred percent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:10

    So embarrassing for people. Here’s the thing. His strategy I’ve said this before, but I just the strategy was wrong. Like, they had a chance to go consolidate what was a significant chunk of the party that wanted to move on from Trump. That had an electability argument that wanted somebody younger, there was a move on from Trump bucket, and then there was a maybe trump bucket.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:30

    And they could have consolidated the move on from Trump bucket by being normal. They could have worked into the maybe trump bucket. And instead, DeSantis and the pack chose to wrestle Trump for his death cult. That was a choice. That was an active choice.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:46

    Without even wrestling. That’s actually a bad four candidates. Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:49

    It’s like I want it’s like I’m gonna focus on trying to appeal to the death cult without giving them any reason. To appeal to me besides Trump, except for, like, some subtext.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:59

    Yeah. If you know anything about Republican voters right now, it’s that they are they they play in the nuance. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:04

    It’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:04

    yeah. That’s that’s where they live.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:06

    Well, I mean, for instance, he could have gone very hard at Trump on the classified document. Right? He could have said the Alvin Brad case is is b s and the Stormy Daniels have his b s, and I don’t think Janner said, but the class Right? He could’ve gone hard and he’s just as bad as to Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:24

    He could no. Maybe that doesn’t work or maybe it does. But, you know, like, in the the first blush of the moment when there was a a chance to draw blood on Trump, he just went into True Guard to protect Trump on that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:36

    Or some of the stuff they’re doing now? Was it one of the the San Diego people was out there with the biggest loser kind of thing? And it was, you know, I got a play on the reality show. Like, they could’ve started that last Thanksgiving a year ago. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:48

    And, like, while while it was fresh in people’s mind, he’s a loser. He’s a loser. He’s a loser. He’s a loser. A loser.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:54

    He’s a loser.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:54

    Before Republicans all decided that actually Trump won. Right. This is the the he participated in the actually trump won narrative by, like, nudging and winking at it and then decided to camp it. Like, how does that work?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:07

    This was always the trap that they didn’t realize they set for themselves. And once they were campaigning, they were like, oh, wait, the electability arguments impossible to make to the vast majority of the party who wants to hear that Donald Trump didn’t lose election.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:22

    Yeah. And the Joe Biden is senile, geriatric, who can’t even walk his drooling on himself, and that actually AOC is running the White House. Like, it’s hard to then make the electability argument against that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:31

    Can we do a quick minute on Nikki Haley? Because while I was gone, Nikki Haley said some stupid stuff about, You know, and I’m president. I’m gonna pull us out of the World Health Organization and defend the United Nations to the extent possible and blah blah. And I saw some people being like, see, look, she’s just as bad as as Trump, and I I the extent to which the entire universe should be behind Nikki Haley at this point, even though it’s a one in a one in a thousand shot. Like, I really truly believe because I mean, we get two chances to beat Trump.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:08

    One with Haley, which is a, like, one in a thousand shot and one with Biden, which is one in, you know, a fifty fifty shot or maybe a forty five fifty five shot. And she’s not as bad as trump. Like, this is, you know, she’s not my cup of tea. But on the other hand, like, there is some sign of life there. And I now, Tim, you’re squinty.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:28

    You need
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:28

    to I wouldn’t be surprised how was your take to some sign of life, because I just I keep looking because you are the one that wrote the best article about this, which is that that everyone’s talking about Nikki Haley surging, and actually it’s Donald Trump searching. It’s just like every time I look at it, like, in that, you know, me and Bill talked about this on YouTube a little bit. There’s a Florida poll. Out. And, obviously, she’s at like six.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:49

    Right? She’s never gonna win Florida, obviously. But she’s at six, six. And so, you know, this theory of the case for her is always like, oh, well, you know, she’s gonna do well in Iowa, do well in New Hampshire, do well in South Carolina, yada yada yada, and then she’ll do well in all these other states. And it’s like, it’s a long way from six to fifty one
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:06

    So that’s true. But the reason that people think that this could happen is because everybody just watched it happen with Biden. Right? And I think that actually the flaw that people are making is a different flaw than that, which is it’s that thinking that the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are the same. And the fact that Joe Biden, everybody counted him out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:26

    I don’t know what he was pulling or, you know, remember he finished third.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:30

    His national polls were still better than He’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:32

    nationally he led nationally the
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:34

    Maybe we’re still long we’re still far. I mean, she’s she is moving. She’s got some movement. She could come in a very close second hand. If Chris Christie would get his butt out, and he will.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:43

    I think I expect, and she’ll be, running more neck and that’ll create a different narrative and people take a different look at her. She might start picking up some movement. DeSantis basically goes away in a bunch of places. I’m surprised to hear JBL say it because he’s been mocking the Nikki Haley play. It’s like you went away.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:00

    You came back and with a kindler gentler like Nikki Haley to save us all.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:05

    And As I said, I think it’s a a one in a thousand shot. Yeah. But on the other hand, like, that’s the that’s the carnival game in front of us at the moment. And so people ought to to put some quarters in the machine and, you know, don’t do anything that’s gonna make it harder to to to help Biden win. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:21

    But in the in the moment.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:23

    But but Nikki might make it easier to help Biden win. Like, if she really starts to fight for it,
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:28

    Well, she would have to. Right? This is the thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:30

    That’s right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:30

    Yeah. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:31

    This is the reason I like Nikki and the race in a way that I didn’t like Ron DeSantis or I like her being in second is that if she’s if she picks the fight for real, because she sees herself as having a shot. So she goes hard and she talks about funding for Ukraine. Number one, she puts a bunch of arguments in front of people that I think are good. I think that her, like, chief on the UN, say I don’t wanna leave the UN, but the UN is, like, kind of a cesspool. And, it’s not it’s not I don’t She’s making some points.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:55

    I don’t
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:55

    I don’t You’re not impressed with the Human Rights Commission that has
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:58

    China and Russia. Like, Iran. Like, I don’t know, but it’s not good. Their commitment to to women’s rights as dubious to human rights.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:06

    So
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:06

    And this is a story as old as time. I mean, Jean Kirk Patrick was making these arguments in the eighties. Like, this is
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:11

    So I’m just saying, like, to me, that is a way for her to do a little bit of the populist dance without saying things that, to me, seem out of bounds. Like, She’s making the moral case for supporting Ukraine. And she’s starting to show signs of life, to use JBL’s phrase around her criticisms of Donald Trump. And so for her to go more of the distance in there, and I agree with Tim sort of just like political assessment, one of these people are not spending a lot of time doing is looking at like the early Super Tuesday states that are winner take all, winner take most, and Trump is up in many cases. He’s at, like, sixty percent in these things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:46

    Like, the idea The whole thing hinges on the idea that what happened with Joe Biden, where everybody drops out and endorses him, he wins a critical state. And, like, everyone down the line just like flips, because they decide this is the guy who’s the most viable That’s the idea that that could happen. I think that that I think that misunderstands who the Republicans are, why they’re different from Democrats, but I think There’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:12

    one other key difference. Joe Biden was not running against a cult leader.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:16

    Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I the the other problem here, though, is that the You can’t trust any of these Republicans, I think, to follow the logic of their positions. Because the logic of Nikki’s position is if she doesn’t win the nomination, should be endorsing Joe Biden. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:33

    Like, I’m sorry. If if Ukraine is one of the defining, you know, issues of our time and has far ranging global implications for how America deals with the world, then if Donald Trump’s the nominee, you can’t just say, Well, I’m I’m I guess I’m with the Republican because he’s better or something.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:51

    Well, this was what I asked her. In my one interview with her. I asked her. I went back and forth to those in interviews in press conference, but it was, asked for twice. I was, like, you’ve been on the campaign trail talking about how this is a time that calls for moral leadership.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:02

    It was right after ten six. It’s with Russia. That’s what Israel’s facing. I was like, do you believe that Donald Trump can provide moral leadership? No answer, no answer, no answer, or follow-up?
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:10

    But, like, do you believe that he can provide moral leadership? I don’t know the exact transcript in front of me, but she says no to her credit. Like, she did answer the follow-up question and said no. But I I I gin I generally don’t go along with your little shift. It’s like republican logically should be for Joe Biden.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:25

    But I mean, at least she should logically be a person that abstains. Right? Like, I’ll at least grant Like, that her that her stated positions, her state not not assuming what’s not in evidence about what’s happening inside her brain, that her stated positions should leave her as abstaining in a general election. And I and I do not think that she would.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:44

    Same with Mike Pence, same with Chris Christie. Right? Same with it. Like, I think everybody except for Vivec and and DeSantis should wind up on team Biden. And none of them will.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:58

    Mikely. Mikely, another great Nevertrumper, from the future guy who tried to lead the convention floor fight against Trump is now just asking questions. About, the the fibbies being the ones to, you know, nothing bad happened at the Capitol, and it was a great patriotic moment anything that was bad that happened was either Antifa or the police. And, Mike Lee, is I guess, like, what what happens to people? Like, this is another cam, whatever.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:27

    Like, he and Pete Mayer. Right? Meijer, Major. Major. I who could say how his name is pronounced?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:34

    Major grocery store chain across the Midwest.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:36

    If you say so.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:37

    I wanna get to Pete Meyer, but I just I want one that I I’ve done so much on Mike Lee. So I don’t I don’t wanna be repetitive. For, for our loyal listeners to just hang on every word, but I do wanna do one thing for in the street of Thanksgiving, for Michael. If you’re the Thanksgiving meal this week and someone raises the idea that the FBI that might have been behind January sixth. I’m just I’m desperate to get the opportunity to talk to somebody with this theory and to respond to them, let’s just ask them a question, which is, okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:05

    But then why did all of the Magapatreats still charge the capital and Mace police and stab them. This is the stupidest thing about this conspiracy theory. Like, even if it was true, it wasn’t true. This guy was holding a vape pen, not a badge, and and he’s pleaded guilty and said he was an idiot, so it wasn’t true. But even if it was true that there were ten FBI agents scattered around January sixth, and they were whispering everybody’s ear, charge the capital, charge the capital.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:31

    So I mean, that again, that’d be bad. We should then investigate the FBI. But then why did people charge the capital? Like, you know what I mean? You couldn’t get me if a FBI person came up to me during the gay pride parade.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:44

    Ron DeSantis, Tim, there are some Christians over there that we don’t want to ban you from gay marriage. Let’s charge them. Let’s are like those that cop over there is against gay pride. You should you should mace them. Like you should take a flagpole and stab him with it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:00

    I’ll be like, who in the fuck is this person? I’ll be going to the cops straight. Like, this guy’s trying to get me to stab you. Like, right? Like, like, that that is not how the human brain work.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:08

    Like, the FBI is not some all all powerful, you know, general AGI, AI, general intelligence thing that has mind control over people. Like great patriots could still make the decision and say, no. We’ll we’ll still protest peacefully here on the Capitol grounds. Like the whole theory is is stupid.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:25

    Well, also, I mean, if we’re just taking it that, like, well, the FBI was egging people on. Okay. Do we think egging people on is not good? Are we worried about egging people on? Don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:34

    I remember a speech being given that day by somebody kind of important telling people that they better fight like hell or they won’t have a country anymore. And so if we’re if we’re believing
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:44

    Maybe that person was also a plant.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:46

    Was it the pre I don’t know. I’m pretty sure it was Donald Trump, the president of the United States who was saying this Who can say just asking questions? That’s not even the stupidest thing about none of this is even the stupidest thing about Mike Lee’s things that he wasn’t asking questions. He was asserting things Like a total crank job weirdo being like the FBI was behind January six. This guy’s flashing a badge.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:07

    Like, He was on multiple in multiple occasions, saying the kind of, like, dark web conspiracy QAnenon Nuttery I am genuinely am I shocked? I keep trying to decide. It’s like the shocked but not surprised, I guess. And then like fighting with Liz Cheney and he’s like he and Marjorie Taylor Green went a new January sixth commission to like put Liz Cheney and Adam Kinsinger on trial. Like what are we talking about here.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:34

    And Mike Johnson’s releasing all the tapes so that people can go through them and see the secret exits that people use It’s like what happened.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:42

    The tapes are out there. Cool. You’ve got all the tapes. I don’t know. Have you seen anything in the tapes that they now have since he’s released them that make us be like, you know what?
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:50

    This was an inside job because I’m pretty sure these dopes would have found it if it existed at this point. Tapes have been out for
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:57

    a while. Yeah. He’s releasing even more. There’s more footage. There’s another fourteen thousand.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:00

    I can’t wait to see more people vaping.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:03

    So here’s my question for you. Was Mike Lee with Mr. Pocket Constitution, small government, was he the fraud, or is this likely the fraud? Which one of them is real?
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:15

    I have a half red piece by former that Alapundit guy who has a real name, whose name, my real name, I forget, I only know him as Alapundit, where I’m what I’m only halfway through it, so I don’t know what his total thesis is, but it was basically that have you read it?
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:29

    No. I’m excited to learn the thesis, but
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:31

    so he was disagreeing with our old buddy, Andrew Edgar, who basically said, like, the cynicism of Mike Lee, like, cannot be overstated that this is just, like, the height of cynicism to pandering to the base. And he’s disagreeing with that and actually trying to make the case that, like, this is always who Mike Lee was, that he is a person who started out as an insurrection. Not I don’t mean insurrection like attacking the Capitol, but he challenged the Normi establishment candidate Right? And then was, like, a tea party conservative and that he has been sort of chasing the what he sees as the base, the most advantageous route to power for himself his whole career, which I just thought was sort of a different take.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:13

    This is good. This is kind of this this answered JBL’s question is that neither is the fake, actually, And and this is all part and parcel duty is. And that and it tells says a lot about the Republican movement, actually, which confirms my priors in a way that maybe flatters my priors a little too I should think about this more deeply, but is that in twenty ten, he thought the way to to reach the Republican base was to be like, I’m mister pocket constitution man. And in twenty twenty three, he thinks the way to appeal to the base is we should end the constitution and make Donald Trump a dictator. And and maybe he was right on both counts.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:42

    I don’t know. Maybe maybe it’s the base that has changed. Can I read you the Peter Meyer code or do you have Yeah?
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:47

    Let’s do Peter Meijer.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:48

    I just have to move on. It’s very related. I love this quote. He was pressed, several times on how he can support Donald Trump after he voted to impeach him, which, even though it was in the house, not the senate held with it. The application that Donald Trump should be banned from big president ever again.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:02

    Here is his quote. Very, mikely esque. And frankly, if Donald Trump is returned to the Oval Office, there would probably be few better motivators to reign in executive power. I’ve been railing against the risks of the office of the presidency, which I think is the most dangerous institution in the country today. Make an autocrat, the president, so that we can rein in the autocrat’s power.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:29

    Is Peter Meyer, good Republicans logical, our units for supporting dollars?
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:36

    Is that where he got that from? Like, well, this time, he’s really learned his lesson.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:40

    I I don’t think Susan Collins can even get that Galaxy brain. I mean, I like this one. Somebody I tweeted this quote, and, this guy, I don’t know. I’m so credit to Ahmed Babva. He goes, Trump is planning to replace fifty four thousand federal workers with loyalists are hell bent on weaponizing executive power to implement his agenda, which is a which includes jailing opponents.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:00

    I don’t know if any of them are gonna be on board with the reforms. That Peter Myers is is calling for. Like, what? What? I mean, like, that is just the Galaxy Brain tank of all Galaxy Brain.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:12

    Like, we’re gonna we’re gonna make the dictator dictator so that people will see the threat clearly. And then We can bring in real constitutional governance on the back end.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:24

    Here’s the thing. They sat in a room. He and his team, and they said How do we be on Trump’s side? While remaining constant but remaining in theory, in rhetoric, on the side of sort of principled constitutional conservatism. And this is what they came up with, which is Donald Trump in his excesses and his autocratic behavior will lead us to rethink the powers of the presidency, and therefore, it’s a good thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:55

    You have to destroy the office in order to save the office. And I think that Peter Meyer thinks that that must sound quite profound. To him. And that a whole bunch of anti aunties are gonna sit around being like, that’s really good theory. Peter Martin.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:11

    Are are they? Who is this even for? I I it really is just a post talk rationalization to be able to say his Trump. Like, I I don’t I don’t think any of the voters that he’s trying to appeal. Like, this is about him.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:23

    Right? It’s like, how do I rationalize it for me? Cause all he’s trying to do is give a fig leaf to the voters. We’re like always for Trump now. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:29

    Which isn’t gonna Bulwark, but like, right? And there’s no voters who are like, yeah, that’s a great point. Who is that for?
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:35

    It’s for the media, I think. Like, I think it’s right. It’s because he still has media class sensibilities. Right. And so he thinks that this is a cogent and rational way to defend against the obvious question, which is Peter Meyer.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:49

    You voted to impeach this man because he did a coup You were clear at the time. You’ve subsequently been walking this back. You walked it back during your primary campaign, which you lost because the voters threw you out for your your vote. And now as you’re running for senate in a Republican primary, you have you have decided, no, Trump is in good, here are my reasons for it. And so he’s gonna get that question a million times.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:11

    So he, I needed an answer. This is it. It’s so weird and bad, but here’s the thing. If we can decide that Mike Lee is not doing this for cynical reasons because this is who he’s always been, that is not true of Peter Meyer. Peter Meyer is doing this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:24

    This is a full on JD Vance, like, personality transplant. I disavow all my previous No. It’s not though. It is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:35

    I was just gonna ask you, Sarah, why doesn’t he just go the full JD Vance and say, I was wrong about Trump? Because that’s what JD did. Right? Jay I mean, Peter’s still mayor Meyer may he’s still doing this thing where he’s pretending that The Trump thing is serious, but I’m on board with it anyway. Why not just go the JD Vance thing where you say, you know what?
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:58

    I was wrong. I was a scared little boy, and I didn’t really realize how terrible the deep state forces were. And this guy is just what we need. Because that is literally what JD Vance did.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:09

    He did. Although, I think, like, we may we may be internalizing, like, JD Vance is at a different point on his journey. To me, it seems like Peter Meyer might be on just like a beginning, like, the early days of his JD Vance’s journey. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:21

    Which begins? There.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:22

    Begins with some rationalizations like this, the Galaxy Brain, and before you know it, and like, you know, he gets a little the maybe the Magas start treating him a little nicer. And so then he starts to be like, talking to a more understanding their grievances more.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:36

    And
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:36

    then he’s a man of the people, and then he’s gotta go full maga. Because he’s such a good guy who understands the needs of the people. Like, I could see him getting there, and I just wanna tell you that I have built up a kind of armor. Right, for these good guys who go bad, who break bad. Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:53

    You know, they can’t break my heart anymore.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:55

    Good.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:55

    Because Except for St. Larry,
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:00

    That’s different.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:02

    I’m gonna tell you
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:03

    why it’s different.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:04

    Continue. I didn’t mean to do do do what you’re saying. You were built up your armor.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:07

    No. Other than just I, like, and the fact that this is still happening at this late stage, like, at some point, you’d think, like, we’d be kinda set. Like, on this, like, when no new information is becoming available. So, like, it’s still weird to see that people have decided to, like, go through this trade information.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:23

    And this is
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:24

    Body snatched late.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:25

    And this is why I just say if you are out there and you are friends with Peter Meyer or as can Sultants, and you just and you I just wanna send you a message. Just like, as part of the media class that he’s trying to win over with these tortured explanations, let me just tell you. It’s not working. It is just makes me wanna hate him more and mock him more. And just do it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:45

    Tom, just go full JD. Just do it. Like, I mean, I would prefer if you just used all of daddy and granddaddy’s money and just like did something good for society and stepped away from politics for a while, that’d be my preferred path, but if he’s not gonna do that. If he’s gonna try to tiptoe to JD, just just rip it off. Just rip off the band aid because this This is painful.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:05

    This is Then
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:05

    we just so we’d all know who you are.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:07

    Yeah. This just this isn’t working for anyone.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:09

    The rich guy with inherited wealth turns out to just be that guy. Interesting. More capitalism.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:16

    JVL, can I do our last segment, can I host? Because I wanna put you in the panel section for our last segment.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:22

    Oh, I like that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:23

    Because I had a topic that I thought was just perfect for JBL. Yeah. And that has been a good, very good few weeks for Joe Biden. I don’t know if you noticed, his polls, polls, polls, kept coming out while you’re gone and had them doing worse and worse. And, you know, people are really are really struggling out there, is is one of authorizations.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:38

    But, I’m an undisclosed vacation location that is, in a in a place in a remote locale, but not a single one of our grandparents ever would have dreamed of going unless they were at war. I mean, the absolute no access to this type of vacation, you know, very, very fancy. Thank you to, I’m like, I’m not quite Peter Meyer level, but, you know, I have Thanks to my parents’ privilege. Not thanks to Sarah. Who who pays me well, but, you know, maybe not as well as we could all hope for.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:08

    But,
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:09

    this is great.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:10

    It’s a great lead into the question. Anyway, let me tell you. Airport, packed, plane, packed, hotel, packed to the gills, Americans, everybody’s here. Gathering holidays. Very expensive, time to travel, the holidays.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:25

    You know, I I don’t I did not notice a ton of evidence of, you know, maybe that there was a economic struggle. Right? Like, generally, you know, if there’s economic struggle, if you’re tightening your belt a little bit, you know, one of the first things to go might be international holiday travel. You know, you might decide, hey, maybe I’ll just have my family over, maybe I’ll just have that ninety dollar butter ball. Did you see this Jason Chase had said turkey cost ninety dollars in Joe Biden’s America.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:51

    Mhmm. That’s not right. Actually, it’s about ten x more than what a turkey cost if you if you go to the grocery store maybe I’ll just stay here with my family, you know, maybe we’ll do leftovers. You know, maybe we’ll just do scraps. That might be the way to celebrate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:03

    Grass soup. Because it’s dust bowl days outside. We’re out there. Pulling up, turn up some grass.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:09

    Anyhoo, anyhoo.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:10

    I’m writing a tin can over a fire.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:12

    Everything was a little more expensive. It was a little bit more annoying, but I’m just saying out there, if you just, you see, look at the economic data, you look at the travel data, busiest, busiest travel weekend in history. History, not just this year, but that the planes, the airports were gonna be busier than ever before. This weekend, twenty twenty three, Thanksgiving. JBL.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:34

    Don’t you understand, though? Well, high people who are going to this airport and have to pay four dollars fifty cents for the water at the airport are pretty frustrated and and are ready. To maybe turn things over to a benevolent autocrat instead.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:46

    So we’re a few weeks past Halloween. Do you guys remember in the weeks leading up to Halloween, the gigantic skeletons that run every third yard. Right? This was the the must have Halloween decoration of twenty twenty three was the twelve foot polyurethane skeleton, which, appeared at Home Depot. And everybody was charmed by them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:11

    These skeletons retail for three hundred dollars. Every fourth house, that I drove and and I don’t mean, like, just in my mind, the little neighborhood of Manhattan. I mean, like, all over the state of New Jersey when I was, like, traveling hither and young for, you know, various sporting events. Every fourth house had a three hundred dollar skeleton on its frontally on. This is this what people don’t, like, things are always hard in America.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:36

    Like, this is a there is very little slack in our economic system. Right? Things that you if if you are a working family, you are one lost job or one very serious illness away from from real financial trouble. Things are very hard when you are on a fixed income. That is that was true in nineteen ninety two.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:55

    It was true in two thousand and two. It was true in twenty sixteen, and it’s true today. To look around, the world that we live in with the highest level of boat sales ever. The three hundred dollar skeletons, the trips to exotic locals. And simultaneously say that America’s economy is in the same shape that it was in during the great recession of two thousand and eight and two thousand and nine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:21

    Is psychotic. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying that like, oh, you all should be grateful that Joe Biden gave you your turkey. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that the level of disconnect between reality and and consumer sentiment as is measured everywhere is so baffling as to be I mean, it’s just nobody understands it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:45

    And I don’t think that any of the rationalizations that we construct about this hold any water whatsoever because they’re all post facto. Like, if you just looked at the economic data and said, draw me the number on the consumer sentiment line where we were you would never put it where we are today.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:00

    I love that. I love really how Sarah, I’ve got a follow-up for you. Right before this podcast, I think my brother was trolling me. I’m not sure about this. He let me know that in his WhatsApp chain, his friend group chain, he, which is mostly non political, quite well off suburban white guy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:16

    It’s just just for the demo for everybody. He’s seen a significant move from Biden to Trump because people are concerned about about their status. I think probably that WhatsApp chain probably had a seventy percent polyurethane skeleton, usage I don’t know. I’ll ask him after. I don’t know that for a fact, but just just demographically.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:39

    So so talk to me about that. Sarah, where do where do you fall on this? Are you are you You’re feeling the pain this holiday season?
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:48

    I think you just said something that is important to this conversation that sometimes I think gets lost when you guys do this little stick that you do, which is.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:58

    Oh my These stick? Stick never. If
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:03

    watching both your eyes at the accusation that some of this could be schtick. Oh my god. The demographics Of the people that with of the people Tim is sharing the hotel with and that JBL shares a neighborhood with is not all of America. And you may have heard of something about a wealth gap, which is a real thing. And I don’t love the Anic data Now, I think JBL will you’re stronger when you’re with the data data, but the data data cuts both ways in a couple places.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:35

    There are places where the economy is strong. There are places where the economy is comparatively weak. And they flush out into a picture that is like where there are people in the country who are struggling a lot harder than the people who are able to afford the three hundred dollar skeleton. And I also think your conversation a lot of the data misses. I learned this from a Bill crystal conversation, but it has stuck with me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:01

    And maybe maybe Tim, you’ve said it before too. But, like, one of the things I hear the most from people is the desire to take a step right now, but being unable to do it because of where interest rates are or because of the cost of of goods. So, like, the small business owner, I just this is like a thing that came up the other day. He can’t get a new pizza oven. He’s owns a pizza store, wants a new pizza oven.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:25

    The cost of the pizza oven has gone up four x, from what it used to cost. And so, like, he can’t get the new pizza oven. I talk a lot of young people and they, you know, None of them feel like like home ownership is this, like, absolutely distant thing that they can’t possibly imagine with interest rates what they are. I know a lot of people with young families, who sort of hoped to be at a stage where they could move into a bigger house, that they can’t or like a place with grass, can’t do it. Because of where the interest rates are.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:55

    So I’m just saying that I’m not sure your anecdote here.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:57

    Totally agree.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:58

    Captures the entire sentiment of the country. I don’t believe anybody should justify voting for Donald Trump over any of this, and I have never made that argument. I just don’t wanna be dismissive of things that I think are real for me.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:12

    I appreciate that. And I wanna defend my stick for one second because I do agree with that. And I, and I think there’s this conversation, and I think maybe next week or in a couple weeks, what we have a year to to analyze all the data. I I have real concerns about working class voters of color, And they’re the the soft numbers they’re showing towards Biden. I think that we could have a deep conversation about whether that’s just frustration, whether they’ll come home, whether there’s somebody deeper there.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:38

    We will all about all that. I’m specifically discussing the fact that, like, there are there are two groups of swing voters. Right? There are these working class voters. The union guys used to be done.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:49

    Right. Okay. And then there is the suburban Atlanta Very wealthy. Have a yard with grass people that are that have conservative dispositions that are in a lot of our friend groups or extended friend groups who used to vote for Mitt Romney and switch to Joe Biden. These are the people on the text chain I’m talking about.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:07

    Yeah. The fact that they are backsliding because the economy is so bad because they’re the fancy dinners that they go to are more expensive than they used to be. These are the people that I have no patience for. Life is if you are if you got on a plane, this Thanksgiving, to leave the country, as I did, and many, many, many other people did based on the customs line. In the one airport that I was at.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:29

    There are a lot of other airports where people do this. Then I do not want you to come back to America and say, I am thankful for my family. I am thankful for my tan. I am thankful for this beach vacation. I am not thankful for Joe Biden.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:44

    Whom, for whom it’s his fault that it cost me eight percent more than it would have to go to the Yucatan Peninsula. And so instead, I want a fucking game show host dictator as the next president. I do not have sympathy for those people, and those are the only people that I’m talking about when I bring up this topic.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:02

    Okay. Happy Thanksgiving.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:06

    And
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:06

    remember remember, no Sunday show this week. We will be back, I think, as normal next week. Right? Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:13

    But there’s an awesome Thanksgiving Day focus group pod with Judy Woodruff where we try to heal the world with focus group people, it’s a nicer one than normal.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:23

    Do you know what we need in America? Yeah. We need a system of knighthood because She should be dame Judy Woodruff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:30

    Judy Woodruff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:31

    Is the greatest. Actually, you guys wanna be
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:33

    I don’t like systems of Nightwood, but I do love Jody Woodruff. And I do wanna hear she
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:36

    should be Dame Judy Woodruff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:38

    Okay. So Judy and I have started, we we travel together some or not travel together, but we go to the same place because I’ve started doing TV focus groups for PBS, which she then, you know, ask me questions about for she’s got this America at a Crossroads thing. But we were both on a plane to a place where I’m not going to tell you, And the plane didn’t make it to the place where it was supposed to go. And it just dropped us in a different place. And was basically like figure out how to get to the place that you’re going.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:04

    And that required, like, hours of car travel, staying overnight in a hotel, and then, like, a boat. And when I when we were off the plane, Judy Woodruff, who I actually hadn’t realized was gonna be on the flight. We’re waiting for her luggage, and it turns out the plane that to get the luggage where we had to, like, leave, The plane had left with her luggage on it. Like, they just turned around and took all the people whose luggage was on the plane with it. And so we were both both going to a thing to speak.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:31

    And she had another speaking engagement right after it. And so I’m selling her, Judy. You should just bail on this. Like, you do not need to do this speaking thing. You should just go put your feet up and, like, go to a night’s hotel right now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:44

    And she doesn’t she’s not traveling with anybody. She doesn’t have, like, staff on her. And I’m trying to help her figure it out, but, like, The next day, the next morning. I ran into her in the line, the boat that we’re on, like, the ferry boat to take us to the place we need to go. But I had like I was like, I will sit in for you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:59

    Like, I will do your talk for you. And she’s like sort of texting the person who’s running it to be like, I don’t know. What but she got it together, recovered her luggage, had a super late night, got up and took a ferry, and like got to this place because she made an obligation. She told somebody she was gonna speak, and she felt bad doing it, and then she, like, rushed out to go catch her next plan to go back. And I just wanna tell you, I I have felt guilty ever since that I counselled her not to do it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:28

    I was the bad person in her ear being like, you should just bail on this because this is crazy what you’re doing. She’s a great person.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:35

    Is a great person. I was still I was really hoping the story was gonna end another way, and she was gonna borrow, like, a lesbian outfit from you. And you were gonna be like, Judy Woodruff was out there, and she was in carpenter jeans. And,
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:51

    Right? Finger was gone. I thought this was gonna go like you and Judy Woodriff doing planes trains and automobiles.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:56

    Well, so there wasn’t planes trains and automobiles that happened, but it happened with Juan Williams.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:00

    Okay. We’re gonna have
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:01

    Also great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:02

    It’s a
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:03

    Also, great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:03

    A whole separate. It was a separate thing, but we took we took a lot of vehicles One Williams really needed to eat at a restaurant. And so we had to go to illegal seafoods, like nine o’clock at night. To make sure that we were all we had we were fed before our long trek. Wow.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:19

    It was just like the randomest smattering of people and we all had to figure out how to get to
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:23

    the place. There’s one forward plus subscriber.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:25

    No. I don’t think so. He but he knows the Bulwark. Everyone knows the bulwark now.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:31

    And I don’t think I don’t think that if you sit through a legal seafoods with Juan Williams, said that the least he could do is become a Bulwark plus subscriber.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:37

    So please talk about his grandchildren one more time. Wonderful. Lovely man.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:41

    Two out of three of us have done long journeys with Juan Williams, which is a very strange thing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:47

    Not me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:48

    Alright, guys. Happy Thanksgiving. We’ll see you next week. Bye.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:52

    Peace. Happy Thanksgiving.
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