Kevin Goes Home Alone & Disgraced

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m JBL here with Tim Miller and sitting in for Sarah Longwell, a, b, Stoddard, our newest Bulwark, a, b, You know, you’re a you’re a you’re a good hearted person. So you probably don’t think this way, but but for me, For me, personally, one of the greatest delicacies of life is watching bad things happen to bad people. And yesterday, Kevin McCarthy, who in fairness to him has been a better speaker than I thought he would be, but is not a good guy.

He became the first speaker of the house in American history to be ousted from his position.

Mhmm.

Tim and I got to talk about this last night. And I had a near orgasm from Schadenfreude. What was your reaction? Near.

Well, you know, I wanna make note of the fact that you did point out his speakership has been better than we and I too was surprised. So while I too take guilty pleasure when people who defend a straight themselves for Donald Trump end up paying a very steep and embarrassing price.

Humiliating even, you might say.

I I do think that’s awesome, but at the same time, I I think we need to make that point that Kevin surprised us at a few moments. And I think for that he’s got every rich Republican on Speedjal in this country, and they’re gonna give him some nice jobs. Because he didn’t shut the government down. He’s gonna make some money. But he deserves the humiliation that came with this because of all of the things he has done to let people down.

He says Greasy a player and a liar, unfortunately, as Matt Gates describes him as. And that, in the end, not only did he just allow himself to be speaker with a trapdoor that he could fall through every single day with emotion with one person bringing a motion to vacate his job to the floor, which came from pure ambition. But along the way, he’s not really been a stand up guy. So, I just wanna I just wanna start giving JBL some credit for, like, in the shot android, we have to acknowledge that he still technically did the right thing, not on January six, not on so many things, But we did not default because of Kevin McCarthy.

And it’s doing the right thing, which is what cost him his job. That’s the crazy part. Right?

Yes. This is the important part. He did do the right thing and he’d we just deserve credit for that, but the Republican party is an institution is so broken that that was his that was his mortal sin. Yeah. Right.

But he not on the right thing.

Foving to overturn the election, right, which is a thing he did.

Right. That’s how he got the job. Like, he got the job by doing the wrong thing. Right? He got the job because he suckled up to Trump.

He got the job because he gave in to Matt Gates and gave him. This sort of damocles by changing the rules to let him have a one vote motion. Like that’s how we got the job by doing the wrong things, the anti institutional things. Okay. And then he lost the job by doing the right things.

It’s a total inversion of what the incentives are in the Republican Party. So, like, that’s why I’m, like, a little less sympathetic when it’s like, oh, well, you know, we gotta give him credit. We gotta keep him in there. It’s like, no. I no.

The way for him to have kept the job by doing the right things is by working with Democrats and have may and having Democrats help him. But like he wasn’t willing to do that. Right? And so he put all of his eggs in the Maga basket And so, like, tough titties kind of. Like, this was inevitable.

So, Tim, I have a real question about this because I do have a hard time reconciling why did he stay good on Ukraine? Why did he rate the debt ceiling? Right. Those are the things which are harder to rationalize and understand then the, like, well, wait a minute. Why did he vote to overturn the election?

Right? Why did he start an impeachment court? This is the central conflict. Right?

I mean, you guys just said that he voted to decertify Joe Biden’s election to stay in his perch. Right. And then once in his perch, he really wants to have a future after he got the oil painting, making money. And truly, that’s the Ukraine thing. It’s always been I mean, Kevin McCarthy believes in defending Ukraine and he knows that’s what Republican elites want.

And so he it was always this real kind of stomach ulcer for him to try to deal with that. And that’s That’s what’s so complex about this. And it’s not I described this not out of sympathy for him. It’s just the facts. I mean, someone I’ve been assured by members and former members.

For weeks, Ukraine Will Saletan. Even this morning, Ukraine will happen. And they have no picture of the chaos ahead in terms of like this new whatever they’re gonna what are they having some com kind of like Confab next Tuesday. They’re calling it like a I don’t know. It’s like this pick your next speaker seminar.

No. Take a candidate for him.

Yeah. A candidate form. Yes. I can’t I love that. And it no one will make the case for Ukraine.

It’s just a given that if it’s Steve Scalia, that the establishment still actually believes in that, and many of the Republican members do. Even if the radicals don’t.

Let me set you up, Tim. Watching all of this, I kept thinking about the chapter in your book. Excellent book why we did it by Tim Miller, New York Times bestseller. When you were talking about the the Republicans who viewed this stuff as just like a game, Right? Is if there were no actual.

And I think McCarthy views, like, keeping the government from defaulting on its debt. And doing Ukraine as like the real world. Right. And then this, like, voting to decertify and shaking hands and going thumbs up with Trump, and that’s the game. Right?

None of that matters. This is, you know, of course Joe Biden was gonna be sworn in as president. What does it matter if I vote to overturn the election? Right? Volkers are gonna turn on Trump because he’s a loser.

So what does it matter if I go down and give him a thumbs up? These are all just game things.

Yeah. No. You’re hitting too close to home. Right? Because this is this was literally my mindset in as a political operative.

So I can say this. The god, I hope I was never as blow dried and and sleazy as Kevin McCarthy, but the same principle is there, right? Which was like the whole idea is like, oh, we have these campaigns. And you say what you need to say to win and you smear people the way you need to smear them to win and you say things you don’t believe to win and then there’s another thing called governing. Right, that, like, matters.

You know? And then, and then that’s kind of the job for the governing people. Right? And and this is this is like the common political strategist mindset. And And Kevin McCarthy had his heart as a political strategist.

I think he saw himself as an operator, and I do think you can be a bad calculating person and also have true beliefs. Right? Like humans are complicated. We’re not like, you know, figures from movies. So I like like bad guys have to be completely brought into the core, right?

And and I think that’s true about Kevin. I think he had some some real beliefs and I think that once he got there, he wanted to do the things that he thought were serious and then I think that he could be like, well, we can have this fake impeachment inquiry true and there there’ll be no downstream effects from that. There’ll be, you know, no negative externalities. Like, you don’t he doesn’t think about all that. He’s like, that’s just part of the stuff that I have to do.

That’s just the game stuff that I have to do in order to do this serious stuff. And that’s how I can be self righteous. And that’s how I can give that cloying self righteous speech about how, like, people didn’t consider all the serious things I did for the American people. Right? He really believes that in his head because he’s compartmentalized those two, the two types of actions.

Just just also really quick to that if you think just to put a really finer point on it because we have the Rudy story about Rudy being drunk out this morning in the New York Times. Kevin McCarthy wants a Paul Ryan. Future, not a Rudy future. Right? Like Paul Ryan left, and he’s on the board at Newscore and, like, he has a good life and, like, That is his exit strategy.

He does not wanna have an exit strategy where he can’t pay for his legal bills, and he’s like peeing his pants to the cigar club on the upper east side. Right? Like, I think he just Kevin doesn’t wanna have to fundraise for himself. Right.

Doesn’t wanna be sending out fundraising emails with Win Red. Sorry.

Welcome to the next level podcast, A. B. No. But I

missed I was reading a lot about the house speaker chamber being Sarah Longwell, trying to text with members this morning. I missed the Rudy story, so that’s so dark. I I

may have exaggerated a little bit on the peeing. I may have exaggerated a little bit, but, the general gist of it is that it was like a fifteen year story of anecdotes about Rudy being drunk and how prosecutors are taking that into consideration when they judge, you know, whether the seriousness of his claims, let’s say, about the election. So I’m sorry to get us off.

I think that you’re right, Tim, that that Kevin definitely did not see a go fund v page in his future. And really needed to shore up a stable plan.

It’s amazing. So two things, then we’ll move off of the McCarthy stuff. You guys tell me which order you wanna take them in first, should the Dems have rescued him

in second

I would like to leave that first, but a b you go first. I have a stick on this I’ve prepared, but a b you go first.

I listened to JBL’s reasoning about this and I and there’s a part of me that thinks, yeah. I mean, there there are good reasons why. And especially the part about how, you know, you help reelect him and then he’s kind of this empty greasy wept pillowcase because he’s been put back into the job by Democrats. But at the same time, I watch Margaret Brennan laugh on Face the Nation when he tried to say, like, it is that, like, happy, puppy way. It was the Democrats fault.

And it was it was so beyond ludicrous and so didn’t pass the law test that that I understand why cruts were like, hey, man, that’s like a little bit of a bridge too far. If you want us to, like, clean up your dirty diaper, we’re actually not gonna let you go out on a Sunday show right after we provided more votes to keep the government open than you could, and have you blame us. And so it’s one of those interesting moments where it’s like it shows once again which always makes me feel empathetic for him that he’s really, really dumb. I’ve just always had theory that Kevin McCarthy, it’s profoundly dumb. And it’s like it sounds so mean to say it, but if you and you guys talked about this last night, That moment when he talked about the Benghazi hearings, denting Hillary’s approval is kind of all you need to know, but there’s so many other anecdotes, some public, some private still that really illustrate that Kevin McCarthy is profoundly dumb.

And so Do you have it

down the anecdote you wanna share before I give my before I take us to a serious place?

No. No. No. But go there. I’m just conflicted.

I mean, I I sort of saw the reasoning for it but at the same time. Let me let me

let me let me offer back to you. And again, I don’t fully believe this. I I am just sort of turning it over my head, but sometimes the fair thing isn’t the right thing and the right thing isn’t fair. And so it is certainly true that absolutely fair for the Democrats to say. Oh, I’m sorry.

You’re gonna trash us for all this. We’re the ones who helped to keep the government open. You’ve been a terrible negotiator. Yeah. No.

Thanks. Yeah. Right. As as Tim says, chow down. Have at it.

On the other hand, I don’t know. Like, if things get worse from here on in, it might have been better for the country to have an even more hobbled Kevin McCarthy there. That’s that’s all.

Here’s what I’d like to chime in because I particularly worry about this with Ukraine really more than anything else. Like, the Ukraine thing I’m deep I’m happy to hear AB is texting with sources and people think that they’re still gonna figure this out. One by hook or by crook, but I think it’s gonna be really challenging. Now, much more challenging than would have been had he stayed in there, and I think that’s a legitimate reason to be concerned about this. On the other hand, I hate that everyone.

Even the even people who are sympathetic to Democrats, right, even like the lefty media and certainly the center right never. Trump or media are met Lewis types and like, oh, those, you know, Joe Scarborough this morning who’s lecturing, you know, Democrats, we need to be responsible. I hate that everybody just is like, it’s a fait accompli that the Republicans have to nominate a crazier person. Because I know that, like, practically that’s true, but I wanted there’s a store. There is an instance of this.

And and I’m sure my friend Jen Harris and our and our other super fans in Texas will tell me that I don’t have all the details as exactly right because I didn’t live it. But Joe Strauss, who’s a moderate Republican, who’s the speaker of the house in Texas, Like, it was ten years ago, maybe even fifteen years ago now, that they had this. The Republicans were were, you know, had control of the Texas house There was an uprising and Joe Strauss with, like, twenty other Republicans and seventy ish Democrats. I might not have those numbers right. That that some breakdown like that created a coalition government and ended up being speaker of the house for ten years.

It’s just a Bulwark man. A good a good guy, a mainstream Republican, and he ended up running the tech now. There’s some differences, right, in the way that Texas works, etcetera. But I There’s no reason that twenty Republicans couldn’t go to Joaquin Jeffries and say, hey, why not Brian fitzpatrick speaker. Everybody’s like, oh, that’s fantasy politics.

That’s fantasy. I guess. But, like, they did it in Texas.

Why is it fantasy politics? Yeah.

They did that in Texas. And if the Republicans can’t get two eighteen, And I think there’s real reason to believe that they’re gonna have a lot of trouble getting to two eighteen. I mean, Kevin McCarthy had an unprecedented number of ballots last time and and that there’s no clear alternative If they can’t get to two eighteen, why is that fantasy? Why is it worth it for the Democrats to try to play that card and then get us to a place where, yeah, we can. On Ukraine.

Yeah. Maybe we can do a bunch of other stuff. I I again, I I get that that’s probably not gonna happen, but I don’t like it when everybody’s like, oh, it’s oh, not Kevin. It’s gotta be Jim Jordan or Trump. Okay.

I guess. Okay. Why?

Well, it’s the soft bigotry of low expectations. Right? It’s because people people know who Republican voters are. They know what Republican voters want.

A b b s tell tell me I’m tell me I’m fantasizing and hallucinating.

JBL, did I just hear you correctly that you that you said why is it fantasy politics?

Well, hear me out. When I say why is it fantasy politics, this is something I I get very exercised about of the last few weeks. If you are a right winger, you have been sitting around for the last twenty years saying we need a president who will just refuse to back down to all the cucks and the Liberals. We need a president who isn’t afraid say that, turncoat generals should be executed and shot. We need a president who’s not afraid to say that he actually won elections than he lost.

Right? That’s their fantasy politics, and they are living their fantasy, and it’s working out really well for them, really well. In fact, he’s leading an all the general election match polling right now with the Currington president Joe Biden. So the right wingers get to live in fantasy politics world and pay almost no price for it. But when you say that, you know, people in the middle like, maybe these five Republicans, house members from these swing districts should switch parties.

That’s oh, no. I’m so sorry. That’s a fantasy world. Do you want unicorns and balrogs too? I don’t understand it.

Oh, no. You do understand it. We can’t have nice things because of course it’s not a reality that the mostly from New York and California moderates and moderates in Biden districts are gonna form a coalition with Democrats and and and have Brian fitzpatrick become our speaker.

Because we How about David Valadeo? He voted to impeach. We could make him speaker. Democrats would support that.

I think that Steve scalise is likely to be the consensus pick. I don’t think that it has to be a crazy, and I don’t know. I mean, he is the consensus pick this morning. He has more support than the others.

Yeah. My face was about whether or not

it’s crazy. I think the jury’s still out about whether or not Steve’s Galisse’s.

No. I was just gonna say that. So we don’t actually know what what concessions you will make Right. To the nihilist. So that’s that right.

So it is still unknown, but as one Republican put it to me today, he can’t shut the government down on November seventeenth. So one of the things that he would have to be explicit about to win is that he has to also work with Democrats to keep the government open on November seventeenth. And that’s, as you guys have already discussed, the past that Kevin got. He just pushed it too far. So what I do know is that we can’t have nice things.

What I do know is that they get fantasy and we never do. That’s what I’m confident.

K Bulwark me. Can we just do live in Fantasy World for one second? Just live here with me. Live here with me for one second.

Let’s dream together.

I want to.

Let’s say that Steve’s Galisse Steve Scalia puts his name up. And I I saw Anna Paulina Luna, Matt Gates, his friend from Florida, who was not one of the eight. She was not one of the eight. So, like, now we’re on top of eight. People, who who who said no to McCarthy, she said that her demands for the next speaker is that they have a vote to impeach Joe Biden, and there are a couple of other crazy things, but there has to be a vote to impeach Joe Biden.

Not not the inquiry. We need to have the actual we need to move straight to the impeachment. So that’s one of her demands. So let’s say that Steve Scalia puts his name up, but doesn’t, you know, that there are six people out there. Maybe not the same six, but some crazy six that have some insane demand he’s not willing to make.

Maybe it’s about the government shutdown. Maybe it’s at Ukraine whatever. And he can’t win. And he and he has eight ballots. And he goes through eight ballots again.

And we’re and we’re back in the same place we were at in January. Why then couldn’t? What we were saying happened? I I mean, like, again, I I know why. I I why isn’t really like the precise word.

I why is because, you know, they’d be blowing up their crew with the Republicans and Republicans could hold everybody hostage and there’s no assumption that they need to act responsibly. But if if there are five people that are like, I care about Ukraine so deeply, like, they all say that they do. I care about Ukraine so deeply that I wanna make sure that they’re funded. Why can’t part of that deep care be like, I guess I’m gonna have to create a coalition with the only other people that care. Because it’s not gonna be the Republicans who majority because I don’t know.

There is not gonna be somebody that gets to eighteen who pledges to fund Ukraine. There’s no way Nancy Mace is on Steve Bannon’s podcast as we take this. That is how that is what’s happening in crazy world. Okay? And and these people are not gonna let Ukraine funding happen.

And so if if there if there are Republicans who care about Ukraine, why couldn’t they create a coalition deal?

Okay. I’m just gonna start by saying that Ukraine might be paired with border security and maybe someone like a Steve Scalia or a consent pick is trying to make that argument. I’m not saying it could succeed. And I would like to conclude by saying if I agree with you, Tim, but if it’s something that I want, it never works out.

We concur that it’s not gonna happen. The question is just I

would love Brian’s inspector to speaker is, like, my dream. So that’s why I know it’ll never happen.

Well, that’s fair.

Okay. So very quickly on the race, then mean, how messy do we think it could be? I mean, I I suppose it could go one of two directions, and we talked a little bit about this last night a b, where if maybe Gates feels like he’s got his scalp and he doesn’t need to object anymore because he’s got his win. He’s just a clear victory and they can call around scalise and they’ll do it on the first vote and it’ll be actually pretty orderly, or maybe not. I could, you know, does somebody else really want the job AB.

Before you answer this question, can I bring a piece of breaking news in? Because I wanna hear what you think, AB, about how clean this is gonna go. Andrew Sollander. On X news, asked if he’s running for speaker, congressman Jim Jordan replies, yes. Yes.

That’s a problem. So now you have that piece of information.

The problem is that when I asked someone this morning about it, about what the trump factor is. And if Trump were to back Jordan, it’s an unknown that a lot of people in the in the conference even though Jordan became aligned with McCarthy. McCarthy did, you know, really bent the knee to the freedom caucus knew that was where his bread was buttered and and Jordan became, as you guys saw, a defender of Kevin McCarthy. It doesn’t mean that people want Jim Jordan to be speaker. So that they would be a big fight to stop him from becoming speaker, but there but the unknown is whether or not Trump would do a lot to weigh in for Jordan.

And that’s an unknown. And I think a lot can happen. People are upset that they left. And I understand that everyone has to lay cool off and everything, but people are thinking that that was a mistake. It’s just between now and and and next Tuesday is a long time.

And so I don’t think we know how crazy this can get, especially now that Jordan is no longer being shy. Last night, he said, oh, that’s the decision for the conference. And then now today, he’s admitting it. So, I mean, it’s it’s a volatile situation. I just never believe it’s gonna end up in something that would be rational.

And here’s the problem, though, just one final point because this relates to our previous commentary. This is going to JBL. How how one side has can live in fantasy politics and the other side can’t. Like, Jim Jordan is a preposterous speaker. A pro it’s preposterous for the for Jim Jordan to be the speaker of the house.

It’s a ridiculous notion. He’s unserious. He’s an insane person. And anybody, if you gave them truth serum off the record at one of that AB’s parties in Alexandria would tell you that. Okay.

There’s not an it’s not like they’re like, oh, Jim Jordan behind the is actually pretty rational. No. Like, this is not the situation with Jim Jordan. Okay. So now we cannot indulge the possibility that five Republicans will say, I don’t think so on Jim Jordan.

I’d rather cut a deal with these guys over here. And it doesn’t mean I’m not a Republican anymore, but I just this is too far for me. We can’t indulge that because we know that Kevin McCarthy and all these guys who are trying to pitch themselves today is supposedly serious If the numbers are there, they will stand in line and say, yes, sir, and I will endorse Donald Trump who tried a coup for president, and I will endorse Jim Jordan, who is one of his most enthusiastic coup supporters for speaker. And then in the next breath, they will say, and the Democrats made me do it. Well, fuck you.

Okay. Fuck you. Alright. I’ve these guys have agency and and all it takes is is six of them to be like, nope. Sorry.

We saw this. All it took was eight to say no to Kevin to Kevin McCarthy. All it takes is eight normals to say nope. Sorry to Jim Jordan, and I’m just I don’t think they’re gonna do it. And I think that tells you everything that you need to know.

It was so interesting watching Matt Gates all these weeks. Matt Gates, I mean, when when we watched yesterday, everyone said, This is the first speaker in history to be deposed through this process by his own calm words to be Matt Gates going down in history yesterday. That’s no small thing.

This helps him in his Florida governor’s race or no?

Well, he I think so.

Right? It

makes him the presumptive note about worry about that. I don’t know. I mean, you know, I just think I just think he will raise a lot of money. He was

He’s a fighter.

He is. And I

God made a fighter, and his name

is Matt Gates. In fully in Florida, does god make fighters. But, yeah, he is. He’s kind of this car wreck you can’t stop watching and and the truth is that he will raise a lot of money and I think that I really have this guilty sinful pleasure. Like, I laughed at his line about how it’s really pathetic to call the the president Fiebel when he stole your lunch money.

Like, I don’t know. That was really funny. So he will raise a shit ton of small dollars off of this. He said on the floor, I’m happy to raise to have my campaign funded by patriots than you guys with your lobbyists. I mean, I I don’t know.

I mean, Matt Gates could still be a factor, but people around him will learn from that. And it’s, in the end, Matt Gates want it it is true that that McCarthy gave him that because he he allowed them to say the motion of a k wouldn’t be ten. People, it wouldn’t be five. It would be one. So it’s really common fault.

But in the end, I don’t think Matt Gates was really certain what would happen, and Matt Gates gets to go down in the history books. This is like not lost on Republican mania.

I think I think Gates was shocked Bulwark. Just really quick on god made a fighter. I think it’s simple. Yeah. It just got totally lost yesterday.

On our, god’s fight or Ron DeSantis. GSE that last night he was on Fox while all the crazy stuff was happening. A myths No. All of the voting around What’s

any other facts?

And Well, Kevin. Responsible, conservative class. Who’s like, we need to go to Ron DeSantis. We need we need a responsible magnifyinger like Ron DeSantis, and the Democrats need act responsibly. We need somebody to be responsible.

And this is a time for responsible in Trump might not be but DeSantis is. What mister Response would have to say while he was on Fox? Well, you know, he says he is frustrated that the house Republicans have had a lack of productivity, and and there’s been political hackery on the house floor. And He didn’t defend Kevin. He didn’t defend Kevin.

He was like he’s like these guys haven’t dealt with serious issues. These guys haven’t solved problems like I have. So, like, He didn’t say he was for the Gates coup, but like he was making Gates’s points. So, like, Ron DeSantis was on Fox, like, making Gates’s points, but he can’t be held responsible for that. He can’t be held.

Territorial dispute between the, speaker and the house conference.

That’s exactly right, JV. It’s a he’s a territorialist, but he can’t he he’s always always gonna cop out and try to not take stand. He didn’t know where Trump would be at that time of night. You’re brave that you watched Fox last night. I really

couldn’t I

I did.

I wasn’t. I did watch a little bit of Bannon, but I haven’t watched any Fox.

But, I mean, he’s such a witty. He just wouldn’t know where to find an opinion on this.

Alright. Let’s spend thirty seconds on Trump for speaker. Sebastian has just let us know as we’ve been taping. We have a statement by Trump. A lot of people have been calling me about the speaker.

All I can say is We’ll do whatever’s best for the country and the Republican Party. We have some great people. We have some great, great people.

I think he missed a key part of that. He issued that statement on the way into the third his third day in court. Oh. So a lot of people Right. A lot of people have been asking whether Donald Trump can run from president from a courtroom.

And the answer is like basically yeah. You know? I mean, he he can float his name from for speaker on his way in and out of his fraud trial, and nobody seems to care. Hell, yeah. Nobody nobody seems to be like, Hey.

Hey, maybe that maybe we call

the responsible Republicans should be like, let’s let’s get off this train. Nobody nobody seems to be saying that. Reporter texted me. I was like, do you think that McCarthy will finally be able to say what he really thinks about Trump now after he’s been pushed out? And I was like, No.

No. No. But look,

you know what? I I don’t know that I even blame any of these guys anymore. Because I do. The voters are the ones who are demanding all of this stuff and letting this stuff happen.

Well, they can find new voters.

Donald Trump is like floating around forty eight percent, forty nine percent versus Joe Biden right now while running from court. Who’s fault is that? Fall to the stupid fucking people. That’s whose fault it is.

But I’m also I’m also just so pissed about this wrap around breathless watching the car and the parking lot, and the court built house building and then the hallway and the security guards. And, I mean, we when we had our staff meeting on Monday, I was in such a frothing rage about it. I had to stab myself to hold back from like screaming at all of you about how freaking mad I was. That I let Fox do it for the faithful. But MSNBC and CNN lock down.

Of Trump arriving on Monday.

It’s a bundle chase.

Civil always. And what does it do? It numbs everybody down. It’s the Trump show. It normalizes.

It makes it not a big deal. And in the end, it helps him get reelected next year and drives me out of my mind. So I know it’s the voters, but it’s the media too.

It is media too. Can I just, one more, just a little quick fact on the Trump speaker question? There is a little hiccup. Little potential hiccup here. Rule twenty six, of the house GOP conference.

Mhmm. Temporary step aside of a member of leadership who is in a member of the Republican leadership shall step aside if indicted for a felony for which a sentence of two or more years imprisonment may be imposed. So that well, I’m just saying that’s just a little Any

people are saying that this so called rule is deeply unfair.

Yes. And was rigged.

And the role was written before before the deep state, the Biden, the Biden crime family go with the DOJ.

I’m not so much concerned about this. The Trump in court thing is interesting. Right? He’s just there doing his thing. Truthing in the middle of, like, did I see this correctly?

That he was sitting there in court, truthing out stuff attacking the the court clerk.

The clerk They put him under gag order and then he deleted. He he de lee he depleaded his comments about the clerk and how the clerk was dating Chuck Schumer. I don’t I’m I’m I’m pretty deep in Mega world as as you all know. This one was even I missed it. You know, usually like the cryptic trump, you know, expanded mega universe like sentences, you know, that he that he brings up about the laptop from hell and you know what whoever it is.

You know, struck in page, the lovers quarrel and all, you know, all of his various things. Like, thank you.

I was gonna say, don’t forget the lovers.

Usually, I know what he’s talking about. I I don’t know what the genesis of the the clerk in this court being in a relationship with Chuck Schumer was. I don’t I don’t believe it to be true. But he did he did de deplete it and he did get a gaggle or he’s under gaggle. And this again, the whole thing is preposterous.

Like that these that they’re and that that that has no impact on anything. We all we all have to just accept we all just have to accept that Sure. That they guess that that it’s just like another day.

Because Joe Biden, no expectation

that any Republican will be responsible.

Joe Biden is older today than he was yesterday. Can you believe that? It is an outrage. Joe Biden was old yesterday, and he’s even older today. And people have no

There’s no expectation. Not a single senator. And we’re we’re not even doing the thing. I hear AB’s complaining about the medium. I’m so all over of the place on this.

I don’t think we should do the Bronco chase. On the other hand, we don’t even have the stuff that was happening in twenty nineteen, which is like, you know, the Garrett Hakes of the world running through the capital being like, Senator Crespo. Like, what do you think about Donald Trump being in a gag order for, you know, attacking an officer of the court? Like, that doesn’t even happen. Like, now, it’s just like, well, there’s just no expectation that any Republican will say anything about this.

It’s so true.

But there are deep voter expectations for Democrats.

Where are the questions about Millie? Where’s stuff about Kelly? Nothing. It just disappears. Into little particles in the air now.

This is one of the things I talk about all the time here, which is the the baseline asymmetry in what the public and voters expect of the parties. And this puts Democrats at such enormous disadvantage and and, like, lids and progressives get really upset about this. They’re like, what’s the media’s fault? It’s not. It’s the voter’s fault.

And, like, this is this is just people. And this is how, you know, it’s a combination of that plus the the the system and the way we’ve gerry Mandarin District in the way that the electoral college is itself functionally a gerrymander, but it’s like this is a systemic problem And it’s it makes people angry because there is no solution to it so far as I can see. Right? In the same way, Everyone used to say, yeah, this country is polarized and people write each other’s throats, but that’s just because we don’t really have an enemy and Now if there was just some big event, some big tragedy, we’d all come together and then COVID happened. It turned out that wasn’t true at all.

Because the people are terrible.

I used to think that. That was that was one of my talking points in twenty eighteen.

Yeah. And, like, look where we are. And it’s it’s because this is This is who the American people are right now. Nah. Don’t like it.

I share this with JBL that the the pandemic depressed me so deeply about what this country really is and does now, with problems and with each other. It’s just it’s so dark. It was so stark. It was it wasn’t even subtle. And, no, I agree.

I mean, a lot of it is systemic in terms it’s a lot of it is structural, and I have deep frustration. With a Democratic party that never ever talks to the electorate about their liabilities with the electoral college about the fact that we’re all gonna be moved into a bunch of populous states leaving the rural Republicans and the Senate in the next couple decades with all of the power. I mean, there right. There’s no kind of education of the electorate about these things that are a huge disadvantage for a democratic party.

Another uplifting podcast here in lower work.

Sorry about this.

Maybe this is the problem. We I, like, I would love to just fire Sarah and replace her with you, but the people had killed themselves. Okay? Like, they need Sarah’s I did have we did have Bulwark fans on suicide watch. The three of us, it’s just a bad.

It’s just Yeah.

This is a bad.

This is bad. We get dark. It just goes dark.

Bad cocktail.

All of us go dark.

I know, Tim, do you remember when we saw each other years ago? It was probably seventeen or eighteen, but I always love this moment when I said Everyone thinks that Tim is so dark. And I said to him, we were in person at thirty Rock, and I was like Tim. If he is reelected, maybe it was in nineteen, there will be tags in the street and women will not be allowed to work. And he’s like, okay.

Maybe, I actually have not gone that dark yet.

Yeah. That’s true.

That was

the real ten miller. That is true. That did happen. I always say I’ve always I’ve I bring to people. I’m like, the only people darker than me during the twenty election were AB and Stewart Stevens.

I was like that there because they were they were plotting their escape to Quebec City.

Oh, no question.

One more thing we have on our show map is Republican donors. So Tim, you have been banging on about this, rightly, the insanity of the donor class. And here’s another fantasy politics question for you. Why are these Republican donors not voting for Joe Biden? Why are they not supporting?

Because unlike, you know, like, these are just rich people and when you’re rich, you can do whatever you want. Yeah. I’m not actually beholden to anybody. Like, it’s like your social circle will drop you. No, they won’t because they’re all rich people too.

Right? You can find new rich friends.

Or new people that’ll do it whatever you say. Mostly these people have a circle around them of people that only just do whatever they want because they’re like, you know, they have multiple people on payroll. Yeah. Yeah. I’m interested in AB’s take on this because she’s a little bit closer to that crowd than me.

And my short answer is their bubble. Like, and I think that this the the young can thing, and that AB wrote about this, is just so revealing about the, like, how thick their bubble is. In the world that they live on his I

don’t know. He’s being told that it’s Democrats who are in a bubble. They need to get out of it and go go after those white working class voters and stop pushing their their, you know, gender reassignment surgeries on four year olds.

I think we all have our own bubbles. Okay. Some of them are more penetrable than others. And I just think the rich Republic in donors bubble is is is on the thicker end of the spectrum. How they believe this?

I do not know. It’s related to narcissism. It’s related to once you’ve gotten rich, you think you’re good at everything. So how do they still believe this? I do not know.

Cause I met three old friends of mine. I was in Iowa when I was covering, Ron DeSantis and Vivec. There was that, what do you call it? The cattle call. And I saw a couple of people I know.

And I was like, oh, do you work for one of these candidates? I didn’t know. That haven’t seen you in years. And they’re like, no, donor x, whose name I won’t say. Sent me here to do recon because we’re trying to figure out who to support.

And I

was like, oh, got it. Okay. And You have to spend money

to be on the ground to figure out what Vivec is all about. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

We’re gonna see how it’s going out there.

No wonder these people got rich. They got rich because capitalism Bulwark.

And the thing is they believe that they have this power. They believe it. They’re like if I just put the right million in the right place, with the right strategist at the right time, I will be able to be the kingmaker. And I will be the person that the that Glenn Young can calls. You know, when he is this, you know, making a steak dinner invites.

Right. I and I just I do think the I think they also have some just like we said about Kevin. They also some genuine views about, you know, creative destruction and small governance and all this. They have some genuine views, but mostly it’s like they think that they can still control this and they can’t. And I don’t know what more they need to see besides the siege of the capital.

To know that they’ve lost control of this. But anyway, I I don’t know. I I don’t know. And a handful of them have stopped, but but many, many, many can you to live in their delusion. I don’t know.

AB, what do you think about that?

It’s so depressing to me because I think what they’re trying to do is stop trump And when somebody at the golf club says, what are you doing trying to spend money to stop Trump, they say, come on. We’re really worried is about what it’s gonna look like when he courtrooms next year, and he could lose Joe Biden. We’re trying to save the country from Joe Biden, actually, by trying to help Glenn Nguyen or Nikki or something. They believe when they gather, if these meetings coming up in October, that a, they can either convince Glenn Youngen or b, they can convince the campaigns. They’re not gonna see Nikki Haley and Rhonda Sanderson person, but convince the campaigns to go home and say, listen, you’ve been chosen as number one, Nikki, or Nikki, they’ve chosen Ron, and you need to understand that they’re going to start your campaign, not give you another dollar.

You need to play nice. And then in the future, you will be remembered for playing nice. And your career will be held by this. And so that’s clearly what’s going on, is that they believe, like you described, Tim, that they can control things and that they have the power to get these huge egos to back away at the right time so they can consolidate the g o p primary.

And that’s really consolidating is really important because Trump’s at sixty two. So you wanna be able to consolidate to You only can be able to get thirty five.

Get that fifteen sense.

Right. Really

color wrapped around

him. Right.

Exactly. It is it is remarkable. But I don’t object

to that. Honestly. Like, if they wanna try to stop Trump this way, but my question is, like, once Trump is the nominee, which is gonna what’s gonna happen barring a health event, why won’t they just flip and go help Biden?

They are not going to.

Closer to Biden on all the substantive issues.

They

are not going to. They are

going to. Do I know they’re not going to, but why not?

Why? Because they will be accosted in the golf shop at that point. Right now, their friend Marshall is saying why he’s trying to support these packs to stop Trump and they’re saying what I just said. We’re trying to spare the country from Joe Biden, who is a senile socialist. And then next fall, they are not going to be backing Biden or do as I suggested, which is to say if you can’t support Joe Biden, you just have to vote for Republicans down ballot and leave the top blank because then they will be accosted by the people in their bubble, in their bubble.

Because don’t tell me these people hanging around only in a never trump bubble. They’re not real never trumpers. They’re not trying to save democracy.

Do rich people ever have people say no to them though? No.

They have people around them who are from supporters saying, what are you doing? Supporting uh-uh female socialist? They can’t do that. No. No.

No. They can’t do that. They will have to be on the side of the silent reluctant, you know, it’s binary trump supporter next year. None of them are gonna help us out next year.

Wow. I wish we had a few more wives. Like, like, and, you know, like, we need some of their wives to, like, be nagging them. And I just I don’t think that’s happening.

Are they all divorced?

Yeah. I mean, I think this is why when you once you’re on wife three, you know, you’re not getting a lot of pushback because this is in my peer set the non billionaire peer set. I have seen the the twenty sixteen to twenty twenty. The wife saying to the husband, you’re an asshole. I can’t believe you voted for him.

That had an impact. That helped. That made a difference. Those those women, I know that I know that white women times are maligned in in progressive spaces. But those white women nagging their husbands made a big difference.

And if you look at the white male suburban vote, it matter. Just don’t think at the billionaire level that works, unfortunately.

They can’t be anti trump next year.

That’s great.

Because just like Kevin, they hope to be lobbying the second term of Donald Trump.

Good god. Okay. Breaking news, Jim Banks has just back Jim Jordan for speaker.

So that’s

great. Confidence right there.

Does Buckley still work for Jim Banks?

I don’t know. Alright. Did you wanna do any kids sports stuff to me? Or should we should we get out of here? Because it’s been a pretty it’s an okay show.

It’s a pretty good show. It’s also been quite long.

I defer to JBL who watches the clock and knows how a long show could get too long. So it I’m here. I live to serve. I serve to live.

I want I want I want this to both of you guys for guidance. Okay. I have a two part question of guidance and I just want to hear from both of you JV y’all had a wonderful newsletter to if if people missed it, that they should go back and and looking at you Sarah Longwell about just kids sports culture and how it’s and how it’s gotten too intense. And that plus another experience I’ve been wanting to ask JBL about that I had recently. It leads to this two part question.

Part one. How do I be a normal parent? Because in my brain, I wanted to be a normal parent, but we went I went to first basketball game of my child’s thing last Saturday, and and the coach is an idiot, and he’s not teaching them how to play and she’s she’s she’s very skilled. Like she’s a great dribbler and shooter and stuff, but she doesn’t know what’s happening. Like she doesn’t know the rules and like the coach is not helping them.

And I like and I’m trying on the sidelines to not be, like, not be, like, hey, you you can pass or, you know, you can steal it, like, run this way. I’m trying not to do that. My husband is looking at me. He’s like, wait a minute. Are you gonna be an insane parent?

Like, he’s like, divorce might be happening. He’s looking at me. And he’s like, I I thought you were gonna be chill. And I was like, I I was like, I don’t know. So anyway, question one is how do I be chill?

K. Question two is after reading about your your comments about Flash and elite sports. Maybe I should just, like, pull the Lyric Court right now. And we should just say, no. Actually, we’re gonna do we’re gonna do drama or space club or something.

Like, look at the stars or something a little more chill. So anyway, that’s my two part question taken in either order.

Well, I mean, the problem is at the drama level, there’s already the hyper, you know, focused elite drama stuff too. You can’t escape that. We are probably five years away. By the time your daughter is in middle school, we will probably have like travel robotics clubs. So, like, this this is the the creep that we now have on everything that children do on something like basketball.

Here I mean, I will give you an honest and very earnest answer. Which is that I would stay away from organized basketball for as long as humanly possible, which is what I did with Flash. So Flash is not allowed to play on a bay he wanna play baseball starting at age five. And what we did is we we did catch and baseball drills in the front yard for, like, five years before I finally let him onto a team because it is much more important to have touches on the fundamental unit of a sport.

Much more important at getting the kid good or much more important at mental health because right now I’m focused on mental health of father and child, most importantly. Not not but not trying to maximize WNBA potential.

You know, but both though. Much more important for you to spend time shooting around with her. And, like, being at the playground together and doing drill, just like having fun together that way, than for it to be on a on an organized team playing with organized practices and organized games. Kids get very little out of that at the age level you’re you’re talking about. You know, the the five six, seven, eight, nine year old level, there’s very little to be gained in terms of growth or enjoyment from like the organized culture of of sports.

My view. But but AB who raised an actual basketball player.

Okay. AB. How so two part question once again was one, how do I not be a crazy parent and two, Yeah, edible. Is it just is it just top plan? Like, is is competitive sports just too toxic to even care about to even do?

So I I have complicated feelings. Once again, it’s that it’s that lonely centrist feeling where I have opinions in both camps, but I am alone in the middle. You are gonna get thrown out of games by refs and you are going to keep some

Like, it’s Darren or

the coach? On your daughter from the coach. By flailing in games. I I I understand how tempting it is, but the Tiger Dad thing never works in in kids’ sports. So What you do is you on the drive there and on the drive home and then at home when you’re, like, playing pickup in the in the driveway, you teach her all the skills.

That’s what my husband did, but you do not ever do it near the coach or near the refs or near the other parents.

Some edibles, I guess, is the answer during

the game?

I still haven’t got a good answer because I need to still be there, but not not talk. That’s challenging. As people who listen to this podcast know being somewhere and not talking is very hard for me, but continue.

Right.

Metables, maybe.

Yeah. It’s hard. You can’t coach your own daughter from the sidelines.

Also, by the time you’re in a game, you can’t give any useful advice.

Right.

Right. All all the growth happens at practices.

I had three children in, twenty two months. I had twins and then another. So they were raised like triplets. They should have been two grades apart, but ended up one grade apart because of the calendar or the time that they were that they were born. So Lily was right behind the twins, and they all what we did was we did chess club yoga ice skating, karate, everything, tennis, and then they all pick basketball at ages five and seven.

And so because she they were not only children and they were siblings, the best thing for them was to let them all pursue basketball at the same time with different people on different teams. And so we ended up in the most insane. We did au We did other travel teams. We did our school teams and we did our county rec teams. My kids were on a minimum of three basketball teams.

Every season, my son would often be on four or five. We did this for their higher childhood. My father lectured me that I was caught up in some crazy generational trend that was gonna ruin the family structure and ruin my life because we were we were at two hour practices at some some weekends. We had twelve games. And so we could not see them.

We would be passing off to other parents. We’d be fighting over. I thought you gonna we’re gonna pack his lunch. No. He’s gonna pick up pizza with the Rogers family.

No. No. And the kids standing there holding their backpacks, it was complete bedlam at every level. I do not think our travel teams did enough while they were making good money and we were going to nationals in Florida and Tennessee and everywhere else. To actually subsidize kids who needed we did subsidize as groups, as parents, some kids who should be in the programs, but I believe looking back not enough.

And in the end, there were families there trying to get their their kids to the NBA or get a college scholarship while we were just trying to keep our kids happy and busy and taking direction and sometimes scolding from adults. We thought that was actually really a great thing, discipline, scheduling, character building, team unity, everything that JBL has talked about so much, which is the beautiful side of for.

They’re teens now. Right? They’re teens.

Oh, no. No. No. They’re the twins. The twins are college seniors and Lily’s a college junior.

Okay.

And Lily’s playing Club basketball So so Anna dropped away from from basketball, middle school, Nick and Lily were Varcia players in high school, and then Lily is the most passionate and placed club because she’s at Fairfield, and that’s a d one, not a d three. She didn’t wanna go she was recruited for d three, but didn’t wanna go because she wanna be a school that small. Fairfield is around five thousand. Anyway, long story, I’ll wrap up by saying I would cut my arm off to go back any of these games. We it was so good for our family in so many ways.

At the same time, we never ever ever had, like, chill weekends as a family. We if if there was if games were canceled because of some snow or something, I called it a wow weekend, a wide open weekend. Where we’d be like, well, now it’s time to just be that normal family who, like, goes downtown to the National Gallery. My kids would be like, I don’t think so. And so there was so much that I look back Mhmm.

That I feel that we missed out on because we were on an insane schedule. And so there’s no for me, it’s like, I’m just so torn. You know, I think there’s so many advantages to it, but at the same time, as JBL writes yesterday, and I really urge everyone to read it because it really fleshes out so much of this. Really is really important that we build these structures that our kids feel pressured to get into and it’s only getting worse to be on a travel blah blah blah by the time you’re in third grade because you just have maybe a little bit of talent in this area and people around you push you, and it’s it’s so complicated.

I’m considering the Benedict option after listening to this, but I do appreciate that feedback. There are some things that sound nice about it, but it’s a little confusing.

Lovely. Wonderful.

It’s a little alarming, though.

My kids like still think it was the best thing. Like literally that just that they learned how to be in practice and games until at this time of night to your homework on the bus in so many ways, it was wonderful.

I gotta say the the overriding maximum I have for this stuff is intentionality on the parents part. Like, don’t just get pulled into stuff or told like, oh, you know, Cindy should be on this team. Like, okay, if Cindy’s friends are gonna be on that team, go talk to him. But we gotta make sure that, like, the club’s values are aligned with your value. Like, one of the things we did with Flash is, you know, every travel program we looked at.

We had a very frank conversation with coach, really, hey, so family is gonna come first all the time. And he’s gonna miss games. He’s gonna miss practices from time to time because he’ll have like, you know, like a cousin’s confirmation or something. And so we’re gonna go to see a baptism or confirmation instead of to a tournament. And, you know, any coach that, like, even hesitated on that, we’re like, no.

This isn’t a good good fit for you guys. You gotta make sure that make sure that you’re in, an organization where the values align with how you guys wanna be running your family. I think that’s that’s deeply

good advice. That’s good advice. I’m feeling very seen by Sebastian in the comments who writes my mom always yelled like the player could hear her and were deeply invested in the plays that she was calling from the sidelines. This was this was me at five year old basketball game one. Until until I saw the look of my husband’s face, and I’ve I considered the divorce possibility at which point.

I I I I decided to look at my phone a little

Honestly, this is this is a universal piece of advice for parents. The only thing you should do from the sidelines at games is cheer for all of the kids and shout encouragement to all of the kids.

And not just your own.

That’s it. Unfortunately, Right. For all the kids on both both sides, both teams. Right? And and occasionally, make jokes at at their expense.

Right?

You know? And aggressively chew Nick or at gum.

I guess. I guess. But, like, they’re don’t try coaching. Don’t Don’t don’t ever ever criticize the the refs. Don’t ever do that.

In baseball, this is a thing which like you will sometimes see because, you know, in baseball, half the time, the umpires are, like, fourteen year old kids. And I have seen, like, adults screaming from the stands at, like, some fourteen year old for not getting a call precisely the way they and I just, like, wanna tear my hair out. Like, don’t, don’t ever do that.

I’ve seen those deaths thrown out. And, of games multiple times. But but Jigail’s right. Tim, not only do you have to be on mute in terms of your coaching But you have to make a point to cheer on other kids. It’s really important that your kid sees that.

That the coach sees that and that those other kids feel supported by someone besides their own mom or dad. Like, you just gotta you gotta be in there and be like, good fight Kelsey, you know, and just not focus on to lose. It’s a it’s it’s kind of part of your obligation.

That part I got.

When it’s when it’s when it’s when they’re this young, but then you’ll feel it also when they’re seventeen. It’s weird. It’s like, that’s kind of your job. You’re just never allowed to be like, deny. Deny.

Like, you can’t steal.

Steeel. Steeel. I was like, I she he, she

gets too

much to see.

Out of here.

That’s right. The storehouse.

Anybody who’s made it this long is deep enough in our room to know. I love my friend, my my friend of me Clay Travis, the Mag sports podcaster turned, news podcaster. He recently was ejected from a from his child’s baseball game. For arguing with an umpire. And I’m just I feel like I’m just gonna bookmark that, like, little news story on on my phone.

And every time I go to the game, I look at it and I’ll be like, don’t be Clay Travis. You do not wanna get ejected by an umpire from a child’s from a child sporting event.

Alright. Good show. Look, very, very long show.

A

b. Thank you for coming. We’ll maybe you sit in for Tim next time. We probably won’t do this exact alignment because it’s a little too dark. We need

I don’t know.

I thought it’s gonna be you and me together.

This is literally Yeah. This is literally one of the things when when this discussion of me coming to the board came up. I was like, I don’t know if, like, are you bringing more darkness? The board What is that a massive?

Always more. Alright. Guys, if you’re new here, hit the subscribe button, master the subscribe button, give us stars, give us a thumbs up, all that stuff helps in the algorithms, both for YouTube and for the podcast. We will see you on Sunday. Bye.