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Rating the News (The Secret Podcast PREVIEW)

January 5, 2024
Notes
Transcript
The media is killing it right now.

Become a Bulwark+ member to listen to the full episode: https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/its-not-that-hard-nikki

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:00

    Hey there. It’s J VL. On the Secret Show with Sarah Longwell today, we went through some amazing headlines from the news, and then talked a lot about, Christie and Nikki and Iowa and all that stuff. Here’s the show. TED.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:24

    Stepphonic pulls endorsement of house GOP recruit over Trump criticism. Get in line. Who is the House Republican Conference chairman. The, the party, her party, of which she’s the House Conference chairman, has recruited a a fellow named Craig Rydell. And, Craig Rydell, has been caught on tape, saying that
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:57

    Wait. Hold on. Let me just did he get caught on tape? Doing sexual assault? No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:03

    Wait. Did he get caught on tape? Saying something disparaging. About a whole religious group?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:14

    No. No. Not he didn’t do that. Hold
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:17

    on. Did he get caught on tape? What else could he get caught on tape for that would really be objectionable?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:24

    What about demanding that a foreign governed interfering an election. Otherwise, he’s gonna withhold What
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:30

    about that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:31

    In a quid pro quo, an explicit no. It wasn’t that either.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:35

    Did he give a speech? Saying that people should not honor the results of an election. No. Okay. What did he do?
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:42

    What could it be?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:43

    Well, he did say that Donald Trump was arrogant.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:47

    Oh, no. The worst of all things, the greatest of sins.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:52

    And so on Thursday, at least Stephanic tweeted out I was very disappointed in his inappropriate comments regarding president Trump. As we begin twenty twenty four, my focus is on ensuring that we nominate the strongest candidates on the ballot who are committed to electing president Trump this November. Not not the strongest candidates on the ballot. Period. The strong the strongest ballot.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:26

    I mean, the strongest candidate is on the ballot. Who are committed to electing president Trump. And so what I want to to reinforce here is that the qualifier is not are committed to president Trump. The qualifier is strongest candidates. The the the object is candidates who are committed to electing president Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:51

    And I don’t so I I I I will admit to have not followed this closely. Is this candidate? One of the people running in New York, I presume so since this is Elise Is it is it one of these more moderate candidates running in New York, ultimately for one of these seats.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:10

    This is Ohio. This is Ohio. And, he’s the guy. Who is their hope to keep JR Majuski Oh. Out of it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:20

    Do you remember JR? I too. Lost by, like, thirty bazillion points to Did he lie about his military? That’s the guy. The stolen valor Maybe
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:28

    he’s a rapper.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:30

    And, And so the Ohio Republican Party was like, yeah, we can’t do that again on this quasi winnable seat. We need to go get this other dude, Rydell, because he like a normal human being who didn’t lie about his military service record, and at least Defonic is now being like, no. I mean, we we can roll with the dude who lied about his military record if we have to.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:54

    Oh, he also expressed Majusuke express support for con QAnon.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:59

    Well, excuse me. The QAnon supports Donald Trump’s reaction.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:03

    Endorced him. Great. It’s amazing. Okay. Well, so is Elise so that’s her guy now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:11

    That’s well, I mean, as she I love that she said it, though. That what she’s focused on is getting the strongest candidates who are committed to to getting president Trump. The most important thing is get candidates who are committed to electing Trump. The next most important thing to that is, like, people are strung from that group. Who are as strong as possible.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:34

    Okay. You’re a Republican party friends.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:37

    Do you know what this is about? Do you know why she’s doing this?
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:40

    Because she is trying to butch up after Nikki Haley made all of that that huge push for the VP presidential nomination. By not disavowing slavery, which was honestly a genius move on her part and is gonna be the thing that when When they wind up sitting down with the Maga people and Bannon and saying, look, we’re doing Haley. And I’m sorry. We’re doing Haley. And Ben is like, well, I’m gonna take off my third layer of then they’re gonna say, look, she’s on she won’t condemn slavery.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:13

    She thinks slavery was okay. Right? See, come on. She’s with us.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:16

    One of us. One of us.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:20

    That’s gonna be the fig leaf they use to to shoehorn her onto the ticket.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:24

    I, you know, I Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:25

    That’s what this is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:26

    Yeah. I so I I love my Katie Brit theory of the case, but Elise After taking down, I mean, obviously, she took down the biggest enemy of the right, which is Claudine Gay. Right? She she that at least Defonic is is making a real pitch for VP. And you know what?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:46

    She’s a good candidate. Like, she gets you all the normie vibes of a Nikki Haley? No. But with the mega
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:55

    commit Sorry. No. Because she looks like this. This is Elise Stefanic. She looks like the shmoo.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:02

    That’s The shmoo.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:04

    This is is a perfect no. I I don’t first of all, I I don’t I am not gonna participate in a in a actual, contemplation of her her her her looks other than to say. She is perfectly like a a normie, female Republican stuck with their with the soup about things. Look.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:24

    I am not judging her or othering her because of her appearance. I am simply saying that the person who will make this decision cares more about look than anything else when considering his casting of his, you know, his administration.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:41

    I agree. I agree with him caring about that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:43

    I just He looks at Elise Stephan. He’s gonna say, she looks like the shmoo. No. That’s what he’s gonna say.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:50

    Okay. I’m sorry.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:52

    Moving on. Moving on. So there there’s another an their their headline I’d like to give you from the associated press yesterday. So they ran this This on January fourth by Will Weisart. One attack, two interpretations.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:11

    Biden and Trump both make the January sixth riot a political rally and cry. It’s just one attack and two interpretations. You know, when will the liberal media stop trying to to hammer conservatives and finally give conservatism a fair shake, Sarah. What do they have to do at finally get a break from these activists in the MSM. Bah bah bah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:43

    Gotta hear both sides. Got to hear both sides. That is spectacular. The problem is is that we know that somewhere there’s just a headline writer. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:55

    Who’s not the prob probably the person who wrote the piece.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:57

    Oh, yeah. This is I I shouldn’t have singled out the author because the authors don’t write headlines. This
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:03

    is not the headline.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:04

    So somewhere
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:05

    there’s some some, you know, I don’t wanna be disparaging, but somewhere there’s a person, probably a young person, who didn’t think that hard about it and thought they were being a little clever by setting up this juxtaposition of because what they mean is is that Biden is using January sixth to say that Trump is unfit. And Trump is using January sixth as, you know, Hey, the election was stolen, and I’m still talking about it. The problem is is that by saying using the word interpretations, right? It is like well, it could have been, a nut it could have been a tour. A capital tour.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:42

    That’s one interpretation. Could’ve just been could’ve been some some patriots needing to be heard in the people’s house? And registering their dissatisfaction in a peaceful way, or it could have been an attempt to overthrow the government because people didn’t like the results of an election.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:02

    So this is a this is a Sarah and JBL. Special because I would bet that one of the things which drove you into the arms of conservatism was the idea of moral relativism and factual relativism as a young adult. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:23

    We are we are a generation of conservative that was shaped by things like closing of the American mind.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:33

    Her rigobertaman Chu, who won, like, whatever the Nobel Prize, and it turns out her all of her biographies made up, and the liberal defense of her was. Well, there were larger truths. Know, like, okay. Sure. Maybe there were larger truths, but her truths were wrong.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:46

    And you
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:46

    were We’re false, objectively. That and this is this is sort of the point when when when the Claudine gay conversation happens. Right? And I say objective standards matter. It is in part because I was raised on the idea of, like, the whole well, we we have to structural, but, you know, like, no, there are objective standards.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:04

    There is right and wrong. It is a thing that It is it is the reason that when people are like, well, you know, was it hard to break away and, you know, oppose Trump? And I was like, no. Like, didn’t you it wasn’t hard at all because you’re like, this is wrong. This is a bad person.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:19

    This is objectively wrong. And I was raised on an ab on the idea as a conservative. That objective truth not only matters, but is essential And exist. To how we orient the world. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:31

    Right. There are there are many things in life which are shades of gray. Yeah. But black and white do exist. Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:39

    This is not everything is black and white. This is not but the conservative physician that
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:44

    you can know truth, that you
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:45

    can know. Right. But I mean small c conservative. I don’t mean like, you know, heritage foundation conservative, but I mean, it’s, like, you know, I was writing about yesterday. But did you read, read the triad yesterday, by the way?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:56

    How could I have missed it? There was like, everybody kept sending it to me because you’re footnote, was like, hi, Sarah. Just everyone needs an optimist in their life. And so people kept being like, do you he he he’s talking you in here. Like, don’t bring make sure you read it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:13

    But Did you just look at the screenshots, or did you did you actually read the the piece.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:18

    Oh, I well, between some I got the gist between all the screenshots that it was sent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:23

    That’s perfect.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:24

    I know what you were talking about.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:25

    Alright. One more headline. One more headline. If you will indulge me. Report.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:31

    Trump businesses received seven point million dollars in foreign payments during presidency. This story
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:36

    also m a million with an m
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:39

    or Million with an m. Yes. Now I think it is important to know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:42

    Who’s changing the couch?
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:44

    That these are not payments from, like, foreign Jonathan Last. It’s not like some dude in Qatar was renting a room at the these are from foreign government. The government of Saudi Arabia, the government of Qatar. And would you like to know? Would you like to guess because you had not this story.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:09

    So this is this is a live, legit, no K Fabe question. Which foreign government contributed the most millions of dollars to Donald Trump’s businesses during his time as president. That’s the other important thing here. Not talking about, like, back in two thousand and twelve or last year in two thousand twenty three. We’re talking during this No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:33

    Okay. Hold on. Saudi Arabia.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:37

    No. They’re they’re they’re on the list, but But what is it that they always complain about Joe Biden getting over?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:45

    Yeah. China. Or as someone in my New Hampshire focus group said yesterday, China.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:51

    Chime.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:51

    Nikki Haley. I don’t think she’s good on China.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:55

    It the the extent to which everything is projection is, like, at some point, it’s so on the nose that I feel like we have to stop But, you know, no. The problem is that Hunter Biden. Hunter hunter Biden and the Biden crime family, what they did. Was, you know, that that loan that you can still make money from loaning somebody for cash for a down payment on a car. I mean, sure Joe Biden’s a private citizen, but Hunter got his money from his work with China that he used to pay his dad back.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:25

    And so inter I mean, it was all but then it comes to this and just crickets Crickets?
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:31

    Well, I think that, you know, people are gonna have to dig in and make this an issue if they want it to be an issue. See, this is where the right really has an advantage. Just they just have like a gazillion people who wanna sit online and come up with, like, Like, they go through everything to come up with theories and share them. It’s just a really active world that I’m not sure exists as much on the left. Of like, boy, I’m just gonna I have the sustained energy to talk about the seven million dollars that came mostly from China to Donald I
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:05

    mean, that’s one advantage, but the other advantage is the force field of of shit. Because even if Everybody on the left and in the mainstream media could spend, like, days of their lives obsessing over this. Seventy two hours from now, he’s gonna call somebody else Verman or call for the execution of Jaywalkers or something. Like, there there’s gonna be something else in a day or two.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:32

    That’s true.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:33

    It’s always another thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:34

    And that is No. It’s absolutely right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:36

    The extent to which that is a shield into which our capacity here’s here’s the the deepest point. Right? People get exhausted by Trump. Right? This is a a phenomenon that we see.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:49

    We’ve seen in in many elections now, but I think they also get exhausted of being exhausted. About Trump. See where I’m going there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:02

    It’s an enigma wrapped inside a riddle.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:04

    But I’m serious about it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:06

    No. I know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I so, yeah, I agree with that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:13

    I don’t know how agree.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:15

    Bad. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:16

    I have something Go ahead. Yeah. I was gonna
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:19

    ask you about, Christy, Nikki Haley. Is that where you want it to go? Or did you wanna go someplace else?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:24

    No. I wanted to say something about this focus group that I was listening to from New Hampshire. We’re doing all the early states.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:29

    Do any of them talk with a good Good New Hampshire accent?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:32

    They did. They talked actually, there was one great one which
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:35

    is Can’t get that from here.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:37

    He said we asked to they were and let’s say this group, this was two time Trump voters, and they love Trump. And They’re like, we asked about DeSantis. We asked him about DeSantis and Haley. And with DeSantis, people were like, they were kinda doing hapsies, except for one guy, I was like, I don’t like him. He’s got a punchable face and I don’t like him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:59

    In his New Hampshire accent,
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:00

    his really funny. But Gotta
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:04

    go down to the package, the package store. Get me some get me some millilites, and then I’m gonna punch that to Santus in the face.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:11

    I can’t do these accents, but it’s, like, it was just a guy being, like, what do you think Ron DeSantis? I don’t know. He’s got a really punchable face, and I don’t like him. That’s a scrape.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:22

    That’s great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:23

    But there was a woman and on a more serious note, there’s a woman who was saying that You know, I know Trump’s no angel. I know he’s had some things with women, but it’s not like Biden. Where there’s rape, and there’s all these other allegations, and there’s all this stuff with Hunter Biden. And I just I was trying to I was on m s n b c last night, Sally Velchine. I was trying to explain, like, the earth too.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:52

    Like, the the the reason it’s so hard for people And the reason I do all the focus group stuff is that people they’re like but but we’re working off the same information. So how can you believe this? And I’m just telling you there’s a different it’s like walking into a different reality as you listen to people. Like, there’s the normal stuff they say where they’re complaining about the price of eggs, and then there’s the really weird way that the guy in the Iowa group was like, you know, that’s the other thing about Trump that I love. He brought religion back.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:21

    He brought religion back. And you think oh, okay. How do I what do you what do you do with a world in which people think Trump brought religion back and that Joe Biden is definitely a rapist and, you know, worse than Trump on in terms of sexual morality. It’s a tough one.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:44

    I I genuinely don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:50

    We just keep making each other speechless.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:57

    Here’s here. I’ll segue. It is one thing for these idiot mouth breathers. Who frankly, I’m amazed that somebody who walks around with, like, that is able to hold a job. So if somebody said to you, yeah, I think Joe Biden is raped people, you know, would you say, yes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:17

    You are probably confident to manage the inventory of my my seven eleven. Would you think that that person was competent?
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:27

    I personally wouldn’t. But First of all, I don’t know that people lead with that in their job interviews, but, you know, these are people living
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:38

    in the eyes
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:39

    otherwise perfectly normal lives.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:41

    But how? How is the world so soft? That people that dumb are able to, like, support themselves and make a living. I honestly don’t know because I don’t know, man. I feel like, the world’s a pretty tough place out there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:56

    And
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:57

    Yeah. But, like, not quite fifty percent of America. It’s not fifty percent. It’s maybe, like, thirty, but it’s just you know, and they’re geographically concentrated in ways that allow people to, like, you watch the dynamics of the groups. And one of the things that I do that I think is sort of different than a way other people did qualify.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:18

    I decided a long time ago we were only gonna do groups that agreed with each other. Because you wanted to create the safe space. Because you do we did, you know, you do mixed groups and people fight or the and they clam up But, like, in this group, this woman was going on a whole thing and was basically, like, asking, like, at the end of it, and she was, like, and that’s my I’ll stop now, and that’s my thing. And, you know, take I’ll take a bow. You know, like, they they they do feed off of each other in this way.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:45

    Like, she knew she was in company And they agreed with her. Right? She gets atta boys for the degree to which she was going after Biden. To be clear,
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:58

    when I’m I I just wanna I don’t wanna be misinterpreted by people who are listening. When I say the cognitive thing, I don’t mean the like, decision to support Trump because you like this or that or whatever. Like, that that that’s fine. I think it’s stupid for lots of reasons. But I mean, when I talk about cognition, I mean, walking around believing that the inputs you’ve gotten describe a reality in which Joe Biden is a rapist.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:24

    Yeah. Like, that’s like, I don’t I don’t you know, like, if that’s how I don’t understand that. That’s what I mean. Like, I mean, the inability to sort of take in information and process it in rational ways.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:38

    Yeah. But this is where this is where the Trump machine has always been on top of the cloud of smoke. Which is to say, oh, Tara Reid, who clearly has some relationship with Russia that’s weird.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:52

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:52

    Right? Like, I, like, at some I do get, just a smidgey conspiracy theory around some of these things because they’re so bizarre, but like, I think it’s pretty unequivocal that Tara Reed was not raped by Joe Biden. Yeah. And so she like drops, comes out of nowhere, drops this claim and then hustles off to Russia afterwards where they’re making her a nice a nice little home? That stuff’s super weird to me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:23

    Meanwhile, Donald Trump was actually on trial for sexual assault in which evidence was presented in a public court that was covered by everybody in the world. Right? Like, how many months ago was this? Eight months ago? And a jury of his And
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:37

    he was found civilly liable.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:40

    Found him. And and as the judge explained, they found as a legal matter that he had committed sexual assault.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:49

    And We also all heard him out of his I mean, I don’t know about the e g and Carol but I do know that he is on tape.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:56

    Oh, locker room on the clock. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:58

    Yeah. Lock room doing a lot of locker room. And where the point is, Only point my point is just these alternate realities. But let’s can we do? Let’s do horse race.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:05

    So talk to me about Well, I guess this is all wrapped up in it. Do you wanna do bad, Sunu, or Christy and Nikki? Do you wanna go to Iowa first or New Hampshire?
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:15

    So it’s all the same. Actually, it’s all the same. So it’s, I said horse race, but that’s reductive of what I wanna talk about. This is a secret podcast and I wanna work something out with you. Wanna hit you with something and I wanna talk about
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:25

    I’m all ears.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:25

    I’ve been I’ve been I’ve been bringing this up a little bit because I have a I feel genuinely conflicted about something. So I am in a world on my activist side. Right? Where I have I would say sort of responsibilities. Like, I am a person that people talk to when they think how do we get a non trump candidate to win.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:47

    Right? And I think about this all the time. I think about how do you beat Trump? How do you because I believe that Trump is at a threat level where I don’t sit around and being like, well, this is why I was willing. To say if Ron DeSantis proves himself to be the one who can beat Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:04

    Like, I’ll do it. I’m there. I hate him. And I’ll do it because I believe Donald Trump is the biggest. People got very angry with you
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:12

    and I for saying that. Like, I we we were saying we didn’t think he was going to be, but if he was, like, you know, we’d go and vote for him and stuff. Got it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:19

    Yeah. And and that this is where, there’s only one like, the thing that matters most to me, like, I am you you can, you know, the people who accuse us of being will you want Donald Trump? Because that’s how you, you know. No, I don’t. I want I would I want anything to happen to make Donald Trump not to be the next president and you only get two shots at him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:39

    The primary and the general. And I’m worried about the general. I do think that’s where we’re gonna have to beat them, but obviously, you know, I’m just I’m worried about all of it. So There’s this part of me that constantly is like looking at the field and saying, what can you do with this field of miscreants here. You know, and so there’s this debate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:58

    So Charlie had a piece yesterday that was, like, hang in there, Chris Christie. And I have publicly a number of times said that, like, Christie’s gotta get out. And he’s gotta get out because there is only a, like, five percent narrow sliver path for Nikki Haley. Like, Ron DeSantis is done. He’s just done.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:19

    So what happens? They’re only the only ways that Nikki comes in second in Iowa. Mhmm.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:24

    And
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:24

    she gets sort of a surprise second boost. And because people are desperate for the news story. Headlines everywhere. Nikki Haley beats Ron DeSantis. Who’s in?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:33

    And maybe maybe the margin is Trump’s expectations are really high. Right? We’ve all been talking about he’s gonna clear fifty percent, whatever. Well, what if he doesn’t? What if there’s a twenty point cap, okay?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:42

    It’s like
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:42

    She’s only a bit Double the biggest gap in the history of the Republican Iowa.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:46

    That’s right. But, like, that’s exactly right. But let’s just say there’s an expectation game everyone’s playing, which there is. And so everybody goes, oh, And then you go into New Hampshire and she wins. Now she only wins only wins if Chris Christie drops out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:04

    So let’s just say hypothetically she wins. Now I think that’s the end of it because I don’t think she turns around then and goes into South Sarah Longwell. And wins her home state. And and it’s actually it’s the it’s what the opposite of the way it normally works. Normally, you’d be like, yes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:19

    This is my home state. They know me. They will rally around me. It’s the opposite.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:23

    It’s it’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:23

    your home state. It’s the same day.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:25

    They do know her. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:26

    They know her. And they don’t water. They want Trump. And so I think that’s a problem. But it does allow Nikki to basically because I think Ron drops out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:35

    She goes into super Tuesday. What whatever. She is the other person. That scenario only happens if Chris Christie drops out. And so I have been like, he’s gotta do it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:47

    Like what? Because he did this last time. He stays in. He shivs Marco Rubio. But The thing is is like, Marco Rubio wasn’t gonna win anyway.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:57

    Right? And Nikki Haley is probably almost certainly not going to win anyway. So I am torn between the idea of there’s one option. There’s one narrow little path. And so we should fight for it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:17

    And yet, my fear about Nikki Haley, and I think it’s not even it’s not so much a fear. I think it’s probably a a truism. That Nikki Haley once she has been defeated by Trump. Maybe she goes a much further distance than people expect, but she once she’s been defeated, she endorses Trump. Or she gets out earlier than that and he cuts a deal with her.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:39

    I don’t know. Probably not for VEP, but for something else. Secret Podcast State. Actually, there’d probably be a big pushback against that. But, like, whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:50

    That is terrible. It is terrible. Then this it goes to the Sunu new thing. The normie candidates creating the permission structure for other normies to vote for Trump. By saying that yes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:02

    Of course, they’ll vote for him because Biden’s a disaster. They say. Nikki Haley, who gets this this this twenty percent or thirty percent of the normies in the party to go with her and then turns around and endorses Trump. This is all very bad. That permission structure they are building is very bad.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:22

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:23

    Okay. So then you say, okay. So so Charlie’s point is, well, Chris Christie is telling the truth. He’s out there saying how bad trump is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:30

    And also feeling a permission structure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:33

    But here’s the thing. Well, so then the question is is Chris Christie is is is articulating clearly the threat. And he went on Hugh Hewitt yesterday.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:43

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:43

    And he said, It’s between he who had says, what do you do if it’s between Trump and Biden? He says they don’t vote for either of them. And my my question there is Now I I don’t know that so a bunch of people and I I tweeted about this. I was like, you know, I genuinely don’t understand this. It might even have been early this morning.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:06

    He did it. But I was like, I genuinely don’t understand this answer because When you’re Chris Christie and you have articulated, how severe the threat is? You’re running to tell this truth. And then you say that they are both So equally bad, you won’t vote for either
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:22

    of them. It’s the craziest fucking thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:25

    I’m not sure that that’s not worse. And so, like, I don’t I I am I am, I I was I was starting to feel like I had been wrong. To call on Christie to drop out because there was he was doing the right thing, like, and the right thing is the right thing back to our objective. Right? The right thing is the right thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:45

    And so if Christie’s doing the right thing and Nikki Haley’s not, I’m I’m torn between the pragmatist in me that feels like you have to do the thing that might work. That even if it’s got the slimmest chance, it still has a chance. Christie has no chance. Christie’s not gonna be the nominee of anything in the Republican party ever again. Torn between that and the value of Christie telling the truth, both the moral value of it and even sort of the political value because if he drops out then and endorses Biden, that’s good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:15

    Yeah. But if he says And and and look, maybe you say, well, he’ll do that later. He can’t do it right now. He’s running in the Republican primary. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:25

    But I just think every time this is the no labels thing. Anytime somebody acts, like Donald Trump and Joe Biden are the same. They are building the most pernicious permission structure that exists, which is to give people a sense of equivalency. And to normalize Trump as though it’s just some policy differences you have.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:46

    One attack two interpretations.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:48

    One attack two interpretations.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:52

    Hey, Sarah, do you know there’s there’s actually more of the show?
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:55

    Oh, there is. How much more?
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:57

    There’s more so much more. All of the more it goes on for hours. If people want to get the rest of the show, you you know what they have to do. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:04

    I think they have to, go to Bulwark Plus. Do they have to subscribe? Yes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:08

    Yes. They have to pay us money. Oh. Pay did me in his money and go to the Bulwark dot com, and subscribe to a member of Overplus.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:17

    All the good stuffs on the other side.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:19

    Bye.
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