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Ron DeSantis & Kari Lake: The MAGA King & Queen

October 26, 2022
Notes
Transcript

Ron DeSantis may be a black hole of charisma, but election denier Kari Lake knows how to run a campaign. Are these two the future of the MAGA movement in 2024? Plus, progressive Dems retracted a letter to Biden calling on a diplomatic solution to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. JVL, Sarah and Tim discuss on this week’s The Next Level.

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This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:07

    Welcome to the next level. I’m JVL here with my best friends, Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller of The Bulwark. If you’re new to the show, go ahead and hit subscribe, hit the like button. Leave us a review on your podcast service of choice. The reviews actually help more than you would think.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:25

    And also come to the bulwark dot com. We’ve got great stuff there every day. Lots of smart pieces that I’ll tell you about the world around you. Great podcasts, great newsletters, sign up and get Charlie Sykes’s morning newsletter, feel free with no ads every day. That
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:43

    all sounds nice, but they should also tell their pals, tell your pals about us, you know? Then you can
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:48

    have
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:48

    a little something I need a little something to talk about. You know, you guys can riff on how wrong or right we are or sort of, you know, reflect on the funniest lines that I had of the course of a podcast, you know, it helps build community. So that’s just might be a good idea. Tim,
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:04

    do you wanna spend any time excluding JBL by talking about our in person live event? From last week and how great it was. Man, this
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:11

    JBL wasn’t
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:12

    Do that. Yeah. We’ll do that. Those nine people want.
  • Speaker 4
    0:01:15

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:15

    was a little toasty, Sarah was a little concerned about me. She asked me for a a count on my on the number of bourbons I have. I told her it was a gentleman’s three. Was it just the right amount for for hosting a live event? You know, not one too many, not one too few.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:29

    I’m
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:29

    surprised you went bourbons instead of edibles since everyone tells me how great they are. Alright. We had a debate in flowrider between Ron DeSantis And, Sarah, you certainly watch the golden girls. Mhmm. Tim, I can only assume you never watch the golden girls nor even understand what that word those two words mean.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:52

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:52

    wasn’t into it as a child but as an adult gay man. I’ve had golden goals culture thrust upon me and so I get the basics.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:00

    Everything about Charlie Crest sounds and feels like David Leisure’s character from the Golden Girls. Am I wrong?
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:06

    Oh, yeah. That guy. I remember that guy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:09

    Star tan and the, like, the over eager eyes in the the shocking white he’s the most plastic Joasisu type figure I think I’ve ever seen in National Politics. And yet he kind of beat up on Mondo Santos who turns out to be a black hole of charisma.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:30

    So I was watching the tweeters last night, and I jumped into the debate because and by that, I mean, I started watching the debate because the people, like, Charlie Chris is wiping the floor with Rhonda Santos. And so I, like, started it from the beginning and started watching. And I was like, that is not what’s happening here. Was Charlie Chris is not wiping the floor with Rhonda Santos. Charlie Chris is doing an okay job.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:50

    I have myself never quite found Charlie Chris to be a compelling political persona. No. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:57

    Well, that’s because gay men and lesbians are not natural allies. So so I don’t know if you
  • Speaker 4
    0:03:02

    alright.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:03

    Alright. Good judge. And
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:04

    I remember I remember when the what was the name of that documentary that came out outraged? Right? Was it about out outing people and it was outing gay Republicans and the whole thing was, like, about Charlie Crest. And I was so I’m I’m actually I am naturally on his side to some degree. I think that it’s gotta be tough.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:23

    It’s outrageous. It’s gotta
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:24

    be tough for her. But I just I so I I didn’t find Charlie Chris to be compelling. I did think he did, you know, he certainly held his own, but I I think what what people were reacting to is that and this is bad for rhotic scientists. People have been putting Ron DeSantis, you know, these big profiles of him, this is the guy who’s the under study for Trump, building up his profile, but nobody’s seen anything longer than a Twitter level clip of him, like shouting at a reporter or a teenager for the last I DON’T KNOW eighteen MONTHS OR LONGER THAN THAT LAST COUPLE YEARS, DURING COVID, WHATEVER. AND SO I THINK SEEING HIM HAVE TO GO toe TO toe WITH SOMEBODY was a reminder that he is, like, only slightly above average politician.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:10

    And I was watching it thinking
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:14

    What’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:14

    this guy like on a stage with Donald Trump? And I I think Donald Trump beats that guy alive in a in a head to head not that Trump debates anybody necessarily, but if you’d made a fantasy league of politicians and like how they would debate, Bronchizedes is not the most likable guy in the world.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:32

    Well, and and he’s not alphas. Before we go to you, Tim, Sebastian, can we have that audio because there is this insane moment. I wish we could actually do the video of it, but I don’t think we can. Maybe we’ll, like, put a a link into the the notes so people can see it. Sebast Sebastian rolled the tape.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:46

    If you’ve got it, you rogue. I’ll
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:48

    try to do Rhonda Santa’s face as well, but while the tape is going.
  • Speaker 5
    0:04:53

    Ron, you talk about Joe Biden a lot. I understand you think you’re gonna be running against him. I can see how you might get confused, but you’re running for governor. You’re running for governor. And I have a question for you.
  • Speaker 5
    0:05:03

    You’re running for governor. Why don’t you look in the eyes of the people of the state of Florida? And say to them, if you’re reelected, you will serve a full four year term as governor? Yes or
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:13

    no. He just stands there.
  • Speaker 5
    0:05:17

    Or no, Ron? Will you serve a full four year term if you’re reelected governor of Florida? It’s not a tough question. Is
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:23

    that my time?
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:25

    It’s
  • Speaker 5
    0:05:25

    a fair question. He won’t tell
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:26

    you. So the the what you can’t see because you’re only listening to the audio is, does Sandoz literally just stands there and stares straight ahead? And what Trump would have done is Trump would have had some, you know, I’m gonna go up with strength. I’m gonna answer that a lot of people are asking questions like this, and it’s strong. And the first thing I’m gonna do is I’m gonna beat you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:45

    Look at my poll numbers. I’m up by eleven thousand five hundred points on this this ugly tan Charlie crit. Right? I mean, you could see that’s what what full alpha Agro looks like in the, you know, the new Sally Jesse Rafael politics that we have in America. But in scientist just stands there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:02

    It looks straight ahead like a moped. Tim?
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:06

    With the easiest kind of thing. You know, every politician in history has had this a question asked of them, this exchange, any ambitious politician has this, and there are a million ways you could have gone with it. Yeah. He there there there also is like a DeSantis’ face which I was trying to do. He makes these very Like, I’m just trying to be very comfortable in my own skin, and I’m not comfortable, and I don’t know what to do with my arms.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:32

    And, you know, as somebody who’s moved from being a flack to having to be a content man, I get it. I don’t sometimes I don’t know what to do with my arms. So, you know, it was nice when I did that first interview at Jared Polis. I’ll like, what what does one do with their arms when they’re asking questions? It is, you know, you have to learn this stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:47

    But but the scientists, like, you would think that is, you know, the the next best thing like, would at least, you know, look minimally comfortable up there. He looks very uncomfortable. He looks like he’s in his father’s first communion suit. Like, you know, like, the jacket doesn’t quite fit. And he’s like, carton.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:05

    He has a stubby little t rex arms. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:08

    He’s like cartman in a first commune suit. So. You know, and and, like, he doesn’t know what to do. He can just or Nelson it’s like when Nelson from the Simpsons would have to look get dressed up. For church.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:19

    Like, that’s what it looks like. It’s very uncomfortable. And his voice is not great for me. So, no. I don’t I mean, I don’t know this really matters that much.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:29

    I was intrigued that Charlie Chris was on Fox today at, you know, kind of trying to press the advantage a little bit. You know, one of the clips I saw was of him talking about how crime is actually up under DeSantis. I I don’t know that’s actually gonna land on Fox, but I do wish some more Democrats would do this. And they they don’t even try to to push this back on Trump, like all of the stuff the day that Republicans complained about actually happened during Trump’s administration and, you know, now it continues under desantises. So there’s it was a little bit of life from Charlie Chris, which is encouraging, but I I definitely think the bigger takeaway was just the overconfident wish casting from all of the, you know, anti anti trumpers who are desperate for Donald Trump to go away and and be replaced by Ron DeSantis.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:16

    Like, they don’t really mind, right, because they’re not the target appeal to Trump for them was not his ability to do slams and to insult people and be funny and own the lips. That wasn’t what you know, your national review types, you know, was not the reason why they came around on Trump. And so they have been kind of hoping that they can get what they want out of this santas and that he can be enough of a imitation version of Trump, you know, to appeal to the people that do like that. And I just you watched that last night and think that it’s not really that doesn’t seem very likely. Actually, it seems like a a wish casting that’s not gonna come to fruition for them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:53

    Yeah. And
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:53

    can I just say so Carrie Lake got asked the same question? Like, will you or, like, will you be governor for all you four years? And she was like, yeah. Yeah. Because you know what?
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:03

    No one holds you to that stuff. Like, literally everybody just lies. So nobody nobody just tells the truth. Like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen, so there’s she said sure. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:12

    So, like, if she
  • Speaker 4
    0:09:12

    doesn’t What are they gonna do? Yeah. She
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:14

    doesn’t care she’s gonna be running for vice president, like and
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:18

    For president.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:18

    Or president. Which I
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:19

    think is the key point here. I mean, she is so much better than him. So much
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:24

    better than him. This is this is I mean At the performance. Hold
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:27

    on. We’re gonna get the cat. I don’t wanna spill our
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:29

    terry lakes. Okay. Alright. Spell
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:30

    our terry lakes stuff here.
  • Speaker 4
    0:09:33

    Do
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:33

    you think we are in closer to the open warfare between DeSantis and Trump. We had we had the the fantastic financial times cover story, I think, which finally said it said, like, the smart version of Trump or whatever the headline was. Which is the story I’ve been waiting for somebody to to run. It has because it has to be on a cover in order for Trump to obsess about it.
  • Speaker 4
    0:09:55

    Are we getting
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:56

    there yet? No. Is Trump gonna keep holding his powder? No.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:59

    He yelled at. He did a he got mad at DeSantis on he I think he truffed about this. He truffed about DeSantis endorsing O’Dea —
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:08

    Yes. —
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:09

    who is the Colorado Republican —
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:11

    Yes. — right now. — senator
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:12

    who’s running a bit above expectations right now BUT WHO HAS BEEN DOING THAT BECAUSE IN A PLACE LIKE COLORADO, BLUEER STATE HE’S RUNNING AWAY FROM TRUMP, AWAY FROM ELECTION LIES AND THAT IS HELPING HIM do well and DeSantis has decided that this this whole endorsement race thing that’s going on. On the right is like a real signal situation. But, anyway, so Trump truth that it was a what was a bad idea or something at DeSantis over over the headline that he had a door so day. I yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:43

    I know. He did that. And then also, again, it just goes to what we’re saying. Like, the Trump’s just would sniff out. Like, if DeSantis can’t navigate his way around something as simple as will you run again in four years, like, any of that weakness is just blood in the water for Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:02

    And and and so I I do think I don’t know that we are in open warfare. The same thing
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:07

    with the vaccination stuff. Right? I mean, that’s because that’s that’s trumbull zero right in on that. You know, you Did you get vaccinated run? Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:16

    The Sanders will stare at the camera. Yeah. I just don’t
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:18

    know that we’re gonna get to open warfare. I might I’m not a hundred percent This is not a hard and fast Tim prediction for the Tim is always right shirt that I’m loving for, but it does seemed to be, like, the most likely scenario is DeSantis likes the attention he’s getting. You know, so that it that seems like, I guess, Tom Brady is texting with them right now. Mhmm. But it’s unclear to me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:39

    I I would like to see a screenshot of those texts. I mean, these are two, like, very robotic humans. Tom Brady. Uh-huh. And and Rhonda Santos, like, what are they texting?
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:47

    Like, nice football match, Thomas, like, Thanks, Ron. Nice interview. I just wanted to imagine their casual chat together, but apparently they’re texting. Elon was saying nice things about Ron. You know, he’s getting invited to everything.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:01

    So
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:01

    is Alex Jones? Yes. So is Alex
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:03

    Jones. Right? Thank you so all all of his faves. So he’s getting invited to stuff. You know, and so if you’re just trying to check, well, let’s milk this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:10

    I like the attention. Right? You never know what happens with Trump, but it seems to me just watching his performance. Like, is this a guy that’s really up for it? Like, going head to head with him?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:20

    I I just it feels like if the most likely scenario is Trump announces after the midterm.
  • Speaker 4
    0:12:27

    Like,
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:27

    maybe DeSantis just sort of sits on the sidelines. It doesn’t really say anything about it and and he’s gonna see how things play out, but it’s hard to see this guy even trying it. For me, I don’t know, You
  • Speaker 4
    0:12:39

    know, I get
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:39

    I talked to reporters about DeSantis a lot because a lot of times reporters call they wanna know like what the focus groups say about DeSantis. And one of the things I’ve always maintained is that, like, there is a path for DeSantis. Like, if you ask a focus group of people okay. Trump does a run. Who do you wanna see run?
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:55

    Or even when people say that they’re just ready to move off from Trump, you say, okay, to whom to see it. There’s always to Santa. To Santa. And and so I’ve always thought, like, oh, there’s an available audience for DeSantis. Like, there’s a world in which if DeSantis was an unbelievable performer, that like he could have a moment.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:13

    But I think what was interesting about last night’s debate, and this is the point, is just he’s been really overhyped And I’m not sure he’s just got the stuff to do this. And my guess is is he knows. He doesn’t quite have the stuff to do this. And if I were I would say this when people are like, you know, we talk about the debates. Like, Liz Cheney could get on the stage with Donald Trump and, like, hammer at him.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:36

    And go toe to toe, like, he would have a hard time. I think making her look small. But to these, like, fake alphas, he destroys them in a way that is like like Marco Rubio will never recover as like a man. Like, he just you know, it’s like I don’t mean, like, in a hyper masculine. I just mean, like, Donald Trump held his manhood cheap, you know, showed him to be, like, this empty person and, like, he’ll never he’ll never be an alpha again.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:04

    No one will ever take him seriously. And I think Rhonda Sanchez risks that. Like, he could get another four years of being the under study, of being the heir apparent, and not having to, like, show that he’s got the goods because I’m not sure they’re there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:18

    Yeah. But he’s been playing this dangerous game where he’s towing up to the edge of tugging on Trump’s cape and then backing off of it. Right? He’s not in the full submissive posture of a Kerry Lake. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:29

    Or Doug Mastriano or, like, he really he’s he’s really trying to see how far he can go without being a supplicant. Right. And I don’t I don’t know. Maybe Trump forgives that. Maybe not.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:41

    Right? I don’t know. What do you think, Tim?
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:44

    Yeah. It’s a little bit of a dangerous game though. I think that Trump, the one of the things that is smart about Trump in politically. His instinct is if any one of us on this podcast went on Fox tonight, and brought out a red hat and put it on and where we said we’ve seen enough we want mister Trump to come back full maga twenty twenty four. Like, he’d be truthful about us.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:09

    We’d be invited down to the cougar pavilion. You know, like, Trump just wants to be loved. Right? So so it’s not that dangerous of a game because if DeSantis just stops pulling on the cape and gets back in line, like Trump will oh, will welcome back into the fold like Snippety Snap. So I think that he has a little bit of space to to do this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:27

    It’s just the question is when you turn you know, like once the key turns on, and you become combatant, then that that’s where things get really dicey from. Because what the sand is really in all of these scenarios, I agree there’s a scenario where the sand is to be It’s not a zero percent chance. But in all these scenarios, I think the DeSantis people gain this out as like, we’re not really gonna attack them that hard. We’re just mostly gonna focus on the future. We’re gonna talk about how, you know, we’ll do some little passive aggressive hits about how the wall wasn’t really, you know, built and all this sort of stuff, and, like, that just doesn’t work.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:03

    Because once you’re opponent, you’re opponent. And and Trump it Trump goes full to eleven, and he’ll just use ever excuse it is to say that Rhonda Sanders is a little baby punch required a counter punch and Trump takes it to eleven. And and so the only way to actually do it is to fully counter punch or to just kind of wait in the wings be nice and hope that, you know, the hamburgers are are the Merrick Garland take them out. Right? And and so there might be some point in attempting the latter strategy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:31

    Alright,
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:32

    listen, before we move on, I I just wanna throw this out there because we’re you mentioned it Sarah, about when Trump announces after the midterms. I mentioned it. Oh, you mentioned it, Tim. I do have
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:42

    kind of higher register than Sarah, so I could see how that might have. Sorry about that. So here’s my question. Why not
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:51

    announced now? We are pulling right. The polling has turned around. I don’t know if you noticed this guys, but after I wrote about this, waving the flag about it last week, suddenly everybody else in the world started running pieces this weekend saying, oh, crap. The polling has turned around.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:05

    Republicans, I think, are probably gonna over perform what people thought they were gonna be doing in mid September or even the end of September. Why not get out in front of that parade if you’re Trump? So that you can take credit for all of it.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:19

    Howard Bauchner: You
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:19

    won me over on this. I think that he should. I think that any day that he doesn’t is a risk that something happens that makes things worse for him. But it seems like like does he really at this point, does he really wanna deal with, like, what happens if the Republicans don’t underperform. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:34

    Like, things do look good right now. I think that the house is safe. But what happens if you know, as you’ve written about JBL, there’s a series of races and and it just happens the coin flip goes against Republicans in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada. Right, and and that and democrats end up increasing their majority. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:54

    Then this then you risk totally being blamed because it’s like, oh, man, the the that things were going Republican’s way, and then Trump announced it, and then boom, look what happened. We lost the senate. Right. So at at this point, I think it’s kind of too late for the for the JBL strategy, which in retrospect, I I do think was probably a better one for him that why rocked the boat, assume Republicans take both, and then you know, ride in on the cotails to make an announcement. That’s kind of what I would expect from him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:20

    I mean, I I
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:21

    don’t think there’s any upside to him doing this, and I’ve never thought so because I’ve wished he would because I think it would hurt Republicans, but the reason is is that his stamp is already all over these candidates. Right? He handpicked them. He dragged them through their primaries. They are Trump’s candidates.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:36

    So, like, if he were to announce and then they underperform, he gets blamed. Right? But, like, if they if they perform well, if fans wins, if masters wins, like, Trump already gets the credit for a lot of that. He’ll take the credit in retrospect fact. I think it’s smart of him to just wait and see how it shakes out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:52

    So when is he gonna jump
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:54

    in, Sarah? Late November, early December, does he wait till New Year?
  • Speaker 4
    0:18:58

    You
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:59

    guys this is just honestly how I feel. I’m not positive, he will. Really? I know that that sounds crazy. No.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:04

    It sounds crazy. Talk
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:06

    me through it. I THINK HE HAS TO GET OUT BEFORE AN INDIPENT HAS ANNOUNCED.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:11

    EVERYBODY HAS GONE TO HIM, LIKE THE RNC, IF YOU RECALL, LITERALLY THREATENED AND LEVERAGED his legal bills on him. Like, we will stop paying your legal bills if you announce before the midterms. Like, no. Everybody knows strategic. That’s not a good idea.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:25

    And I bet you know, I bet Tony Fabrizio and his posters went in there and said, look, this is what you’ll do if, you know, you’re top of mind. And maybe they even I mean, back in, you know, we’ve had this this five shift, but the in the middle, the five shift toward the democrats, one of the three reasons why democrats were sort of over performing expectations was that Donald Trump’s saliance had jumped in those moments. Right? Because of the Mar a Lago documents, he was sort of back on people’s minds. I think if he’s gonna go, he has to go first because the whole point of Trump is to freeze the field.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:57

    Right? Like, there’s a whole bunch of candidates where if Trump doesn’t run, I think it’s a foregone conclusion that DeSantis runs. I think it’s a foregone conclusion that Youngkin runs and a bunch of other, you know, even like Ted Cruz, like a whole bunch of people are gonna run. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:10

    Tom Cotton, Mike Pompeo, a lot of empty pizza ranches. So those guys That’s right. But a bunch
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:15

    of those people don’t run if Trump runs. I mean, like, if Trump runs, he’s probably the the big question will be if DeSantis gets in And then, like, he’s probably running against Liz Cheney and, like, Larry Hogan. Mike
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:29

    Pence, maybe. And Mike
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:30

    Pence, maybe. Christie, Christy. And
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:33

    maybe he commences the state parties to circumvent the the voting. Right? Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:20:38

    Sure. If he
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:39

    gets in, he gets in first. Certainly, some
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:41

    of the states will do that for him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:43

    Yeah. Like, you know, Missouri and Arkansas won’t Arizona.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:48

    Arizona or Kelly Ward is running this What
  • Speaker 6
    0:20:49

    are the chances they want to just say, no. No. We’re not we’re in a short circuit this. I think all bets are off
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:53

    once Trump isn’t. Because, like, it was like what happened in in in twenty. Right? Where, like, we thought there was I mean, there wasn’t really a path to to primary him, but, like, that wasn’t didn’t matter anyway. Like, if like, they were gonna shut that down, and they weren’t gonna let it happen.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:06

    And so I think all bets are off with Trump. And I will say, like, if he doesn’t announce within a week or two of the midterms of us knowing, I will become very, like, bullish on him not doing it because I I think that, like, the whole point of him has to be to get in early and freeze the field. Otherwise, like, what’s he gonna do? He’s not gonna, like, wait to see if Christine Noam decides to run or, like, Rhonda Santos. He’s not gonna let them get in first.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:32

    Right? Like, Why would he do that? Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:34

    Money, I guess. You want you an official candidate, etcetera, etcetera, you have to start spending hard dollars. I I don’t know. I I we’ll we’re gonna have plenty of time to talk November and December. So I had to say I briefly I interviewed Maggie Abramsman for the Commonwealth Club.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:46

    You can watch it on YouTube if you wanna if you wanna google it. And I tried to like Zag and ask her different questions the obvious ones everyone asks her. And I know there’s people with Maggie Derangement syndrome out there, so feel free to not watch it if you have MDS. But, you know, her the basic take is like, look, this kind of loves to be loved and and he likes to have leverage over investigations. This is a historic fact about him going back to when he was a very small child with tiny hands and, like, the best way to get attention and the best way for him like he has leverage over the investigations is to be in.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:20

    And so why wouldn’t he be in? That’s just that’s what it comes down to for me. Maybe something else happens. I can’t get inside his brain, but But that’s that’s sort of where I land and that’s where Maggie landed. But
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:30

    part of his leverage is not running. So part of his leverage is like the idea that he wouldn’t run. Like, I’ve always thought that one of the ways they negotiate this thing that Merrick Garland potentially negotiates this thing is to say, like, you commit to not running and not holding office again. And, like, that’s what we’ll do to avoid a civil war. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:49

    think you’re in JBL Fantasy, politics land here. I just don’t see that. Hello. Why
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:54

    is that the fan me fantasy? No. That’s that’s Well, because you love
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:57

    less wing fantasy politics. It’s like Merrick Garland, they’ll walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, you know, and decide, I’ll just do this myself. And we have a big meeting with Donald Trump. Why isn’t that
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:08

    a piece of leverage? Why isn’t that a piece of leverage? I’m not writing it. It is a piece of but
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:11

    it’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:12

    I think Trump thinks that it’s the that he has the leverage in this case. Right? Which is, like, I I’m not negative
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:18

    leverage. With positive leverage. Yeah. Alright. Before we move on, I wanna talk about our friends at Bull and Branch, the Linens company who made these wonderful sheets that they gave us.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:30

    It I say this every week, but it’s true. And keep saying it to the people, listen to me, and treat yourself to these sheets, long staple cotton. It makes them incredibly supple, but also substantial They’re soft, they’re really well engineered sheets, well designed, incredibly deep pockets on the fitted sheet. I just I love the crap out of them. They’re the best sheets I’ve ever owned, and I spend a lot of time going around buying luxury sheets over the last, like, fifteen years or so.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:00

    Timothy, would you like to share a funny story from the with the class? Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:04

    Just a little anecdote. Yeah. I’d like to my friend Sue d m to me. Love Sue. She’s a good listener unlike some of you bad listeners who haven’t done what Sue did.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:12

    She went down to our local Bolen branch, kinda checked it out. Wanted to make sure when she bought the sheets. She got the Bolen Branch, I guess. When she got the sheets that she got the fifteen percent off the work code, gave them next level. She was surprised to find out that the employee there in Roland Branch had not heard of me, Tim Miller.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:36

    Jesus Christ. You’re kidding.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:38

    His hysterical commentary about Bolen Branch on the next level podcast, not all of the it’s not mandatory listening for all the employees. So Did
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:45

    Sue have one of your headshots to pass
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:48

    out to I don’t know. Maybe she was just playing it cool. I don’t know. But I I will just say Is Sue’s last
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:53

    name Miller? No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:54

    Sue’s last name is not Miller. I don’t want to fully out or but I’m grateful for Sue and everybody be like Sue and and, you know, use the use the next level code to get your fifteen percent off. And if you happen to be in a bowling branch branch, just kind of ask, be like, have you heard of Tim? Do you follow? Are you watching out my party on Snapchat?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:14

    Just kinda see what my popularity level is among Golden Branch employees and keep me posted on that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:19

    Well, this is the type of thing that you should people should treat themselves to it. Like, I think people will get a little hinkie about like, oh, do I need luxury sheets? And the answer is you do. You do. Like, it’s like a third of your day.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:30

    You you look. If you’re not twenty two years old, like, if you if you are on a grown ass adult and you have a job and you sleep in a bed, treat yourself to some nice sheets. I myself am going to actually, I think as soon as we’re done, I’m gonna go to the Bolen branch website and treat myself to their bed herringbone bed blanket, which looks amazing. And I’m getting one of those for myself as well. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:55

    Try the sheets that will make fall the coziest season of the year. Get fifteen percent off your first set of sheets and free shipping when you use promo code next level at bolandbranch dot com. That’s bolandbranch, b o l l a n d branch, dot com promo code next level. Be like Sue. So I have a question.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:21

    Is there
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:22

    anybody in all of America rooting harder for Katy Hobbs than Ron DeSantis?
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:30

    Because
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:30

    although Ron DeSantis has gone and campaigned with Carrie Layne. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:35

    think me. I think me and then Ron DeSantis
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:38

    clearly, he looks at her and sees in her the reptilian cunning and the master of media that he is not. And he must fear her. No?
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:53

    Yeah. No. Carrie Lake, we’ve been talking about this for a while JBL. And, you know, person who said it to me was Mark Caputo from Florida who is like a Ron DeSantis aficionado. It sees them up close a lot.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:04

    And then I told it to you on the secret pod and, like, I think that we all sort of were like, yes, this is the right take. And the right take was that — Yep. — Kerry Lake is the true heir to Maga and Ron Santis is not. And the reason that she is so good is that it is it does come down to charisma. And, like, that was what was on display last night was, like, his negative charisma.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:25

    Like, somebody did a mash up of his facial expressions. And, like, I actually didn’t realize that Tim was imitating him before, and I was like, what is going on with Tim? Eight. But he he looks so uncomfortable on his own skin. And she
  • Speaker 4
    0:27:43

    looks like
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:44

    she’s living the dream every day. She also looks like she is having fun Brandon Sanchez does not look like he’s having fun. He looks pissy and mad and like everything irks him and she is a happy warrior the same way kinda Trump is, where everything’s a little bit of a joke. She carries it kind of lightly. And she’s able to talk about elections being stolen and how she’s definitely gonna do a full four year term as governor and all that stuff without blinking an eye.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:11

    And that makes her really, really dangerous for the future. The other
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:15

    thing is not only is she better than him, not only will if in some crazy sequence of events, Trump doesn’t run or Trump is unable to run. Not only will she have Trump’s loyalty for being loyal to him, So she’ll have the Trump stamp of approval over him. Great point. And she also there is something we’ve talked for this before, I think, Sarah, you and I have I don’t know. I don’t know if we did JBL.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:38

    Like, Republican voters, like, there is something in them that’s like, I wanna prove to those woke lips that I’m not sexist. I’m not racist. So, like, if you give me a woman or a person of color that that is maga, that also hates the people I hate, that gives them an extra bump actually over over, you know, just another normal white guy. Right? So it’s like a stick in the eye of the media.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:03

    So she has that going for. She has her abilities better going for. And the timing is working out for her. Conceivably in a way, and obviously for the VP slot, but even if again, even if they ended up having to go head to head this time, I just you know, anything can happen. Who knows?
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:22

    But to me, just across the board, a clear answer for where the party is, the Ron DeSantis, and I just if if we had a fantasy match up between the two of them, it just seems to me like she’s Trump and he’s Ted Cruz. And it’s just like a full rerun. OF WHAT WE JUST DID IN twenty sixteen AND WE ALREADY SAW WHAT HAPPENS. Reporter: ONE
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:40

    MORE THINK TO THIS WHICH IS SHE WOULD IF SHE WINDS she becomes governor of the most razor edge swing state. Right? The one that that has been turned in purple, she gets it back she wins the state that Trump lost. Right? And she defeats the secretary of state that she says stole the election from Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:00

    Right? Like, she has been full on in the election. Like, not she’s been hands on. And so, like, the idea that she is like, the warrior that can push back on this. Like, it’s got all the makings of a narrative that is a winner with the base.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:16

    Which
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:16

    takes me back to my article, which is, let’s fucking stop her. Yeah. Right. We’ve got we’ve only got thirteen days. I mean, this has been the a straining part around all this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:25

    And I told JBL before I submitted, and for folks I haven’t read it, I wrote an article about how Katie’s Hobbs’ campaign has been a dog’s breakfast. And and how it doesn’t seem like she’s getting the kind of help she needs from national democrats to sort of boost her and like that we’re not. There isn’t fear certainty of now about this campaign, which there should be when we have this, like, you know, semi fascist that’s about to to win a key swing state who could put her finger on the scale for twenty twenty four, who would be on the top of the VP list, who’d be on the top of the POTUS list. So I let’s try to kill this in the crib. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:56

    When we still have a chance because she could still lose. I mean, it is a close race. She’s only up by one in the in five thirty eight. And I tried to make the make the parallel to when I wrote that article during the presidential primary, Now, obviously, the threat between Bernie and Kerry Lake is non equivalent. So any Bernie fans don’t get mad at me here.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:13

    But when when it looks like Bernie was gonna win the nomination, of the Democratic primary. And, you know, my concerns about Bernie, but really more about how I I thought that that it would be Trump more likely to win a second term, And I wrote the article. There’s just, like, Democrats wake up. This is happening. Like, circle the wagons and do what you can to to stop this now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:33

    And they did. You know what, like, what happened? Pete and Amy drop out. They get around they serve the lions around Biden. They go and endorse them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:40

    They old events with them. That stuff matters. Right? Like, you can make difference around the edges, and and the Democrats for some reason are letting Katy Hobbs like Diana Vine out there. And she’s not getting the Barack Obama trip that other people are getting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:55

    I wrote in the article about how Kristen cinema and Mark Kelley are not helping her. Me and JV held a private debate on Slack, which we can hash out here about whether Kristen Cinema would actually help her. I think that she would other real thing that she wouldn’t. But, okay, regardless of that, I think that there’s she should at least be trying. And in fact, that she won’t even say she’s voting for is insane.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:14

    And I think it’s very clear that Kristen Cinema doing an ad that was like, hey, I’ve been crosshays with the Democrats on a bunch of stuff, and I’m an independent voice, but this Carrie Lake Lady is a fucking lunatic So please do what I’m doing, voting for Katy Hobbs would certainly help. Right? And yet none of that is happening. Hobbs is limping into the finish line.
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:35

    I’m just
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:36

    wanna come down squarely on Tim’s side here on the idea that Kristen Cinema, literally anybody endorsing her right now who’s holding office that creates headlines of more people endorsing Katie Hobbs creates narratives that are good for Katie Hobbs. Because right now, all the headlines are about people abandoning Katie Hobbs and how she’s running such a bad campaign, and so people don’t wanna reimburse her. That stuff that stuff compounds. And so you’ve gotta change that trajectory by being like, no. Let’s get every endorsement we can and like, national democrats guys gets the media talking about it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:05

    So, like, one hundred percent, they should be jumping in for her. I mean, yeah, I do
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:10

    wanna clarify here that when we say that Katie Hobbs is running a bad campaign. We don’t mean that she’s running a Hershel Walker campaign. What
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:18

    do you mean
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:19

    about a Hershel Walker campaign? There’s some similarities with Hersha Walker, like, inability to
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:23

    What’s what I mean is she’s not insane. Alright.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:26

    No. She’s not insane. Right. But
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:27

    the difference with the Hersha Walker can’t say it’s actually a good it’s a good corollary to see how Republicans have circled the wagons for him. Is it
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:33

    right? Like, you
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:34

    don’t see Kemp’s not running didn’t run away from him? Like, everybody’s still in for her. Show everybody’s good for her. She’ll ever re circle the wagons on him, but people this is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. One
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:44

    of the differences between in Democrats. There there’s a story out today, NBC, I think, had or CNBC about the all the corporate donors who have jumped on board with Kerry Lake, which again, I mean, Carrie Lake has has said that she, you know, she wants to lock
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:02

    up her opponents.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:03

    She wants to jail her opponents and maybe she doesn’t mean it or whatever. But, like, she is a loom. She’s a loom. And she’s dangerous. And Corporate America is like, man, fine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:14

    We’re there. And just, you know, the as you say, the lack of support for Katie Hobbs is I mean, can can we finally get you know, I don’t wanna make this about cinema bashing, but I don’t know. Kristen cinema, not even saying that she would vote for the perfectly normal Democrat. Like, this is the difference. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:32

    Here’s here’s the difference between
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:36

    Democrats and Republicans. Your
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:37

    voice, Sunu, Sarah, is all in on the General Don Bullock. Right? And Kristen Cinema won’t even say whether or not she is voting for Katie Hobbs. Yeah. That’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:49

    the difference
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:50

    between Democratic health. Yeah. I mean, this
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:52

    is just Republicans, like, fall in line. Right? These are the wagons. And I wrote in this piece, like, the end of the good Republicans, like, Sunuuu and Dusi and all of these guys who are endorsing these insane people. And, like, the anti antiists who argue that, like, well, this is incrementalism.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:07

    You have to do this how we pull the party back from insanity. And I’m like, guys, the radicalization’s going the other way. Like, it is read the the radicalization of Sunuuu and Doosi and Youngkin is is what’s happening here. That’s the big story. There’s and, like, corporate like, twenty twenty two is the year that the establishment Republicans in air quotes and corporations just gave up.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:29

    Like, they just gave up and we’re like, yep, we’re all in for these election denying lunatics. Like, we don’t Well, they understand that
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:36

    that’s the only future.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:38

    But, Tim, don’t you think don’t you think that that Katie Hobbs must have waved Cinema off? Like, there’s no way these campaigns don’t talk to each other. Right? Yes. Yes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:46

    I do I do think I I know actually that Katie Hobbs did not want or has not asked Cinema Let’s put it that way. Has not asked Cinema for help? I know that. And I think I put that in an article. And so I have a box on all their houses.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:00

    Right? Like, I don’t I think Katie I was running a bad campaign. I think that the democrats, national democrats are not doing what they can to help her. And the DGA put an eight billion, which is good. But, like, there’s no sense of urgency There’s no sense of, okay, like, let’s break glass here and bring in the Obamas, bring in anyone popular.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:20

    And and, yeah, I don’t know. Cinema Cinna could do something on her own. She has her own agency. Right? Maybe they don’t want her to say what that, but, like, this is crazy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:30

    Like, I won’t even stay on the record that I’m voting for. Like, there’s Katie Hobbs is running a bad campaign. She looks like a deer in the headlights and interviews. She just isn’t that good at the at the performative part of politics. But, like, she’s normal.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:42

    And she’s fine. Like, the the Arizona has a Republican legislature. Right? Like, it’s not like Katy Hobbs is gonna institute socialism or open the border to anyone that wants to come through Arizona or believes in General Donald Bullock believes that the bank vaccines or Bill Gates putting microchips inside of our bodies. Like these lifesaving vaccines that saved millions of people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:02

    That’s what General John Bulldog thinks. He thinks that Chinese Communist Party has has infiltrated Mitch McConnell’s office. Okay? Mitch McConnell’s still foreign. Alright?
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:11

    Now, Katie Hobbs isn’t any of that. She’s just kind of a lackluster liberal. Right? And and I’m gonna disagree with some of the things she wants to do. I’m sure Kristen Cinema will disagree and and agree that she’s running in someone that is a frequenter of of Steve Bannon’s insurrectionist podcast.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:27

    Like, wants to use the Arizona surplus to drone the border. And and and who knows might change the election laws that the state legislature gets to decide who wins the twenty twenty four election. And this is a crazy fucking lunatic. And I feel like I’m screaming into the ether when I’m calling around for this article, being like, why aren’t more people trying to help stop this? It’s like, well, you know, we’re doing what we can.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:52

    We gave our we did our ads and and Katie Hobbs is running her campaign. And and, you know, in Arizona, that’s how you win by being independent. I’m like, that might have been how Mark Kelly and Kristen Cinema one, but they are different people than Katy Hobbs. Alright? She just she looks like a normal liberal.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:08

    She is a normal liberal or progressive, actually. It’s probably a better word. She looks like an all progressive she is. Cinema and and Kelly were able to run unique campaigns away from the Democratic Party because they are unique. One’s an astronaut.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:19

    One is kind of a weird, a functor for human. So
  • Speaker 4
    0:38:25

    like, to say
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:25

    that, like, Katy Ham should run like them is just, you know, like, asking a duck, you know, to to walk around the street.
  • Speaker 4
    0:38:33

    That’s a
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:34

    terrible analogy, but you know where I’m going. Oh,
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:36

    Katie Hobbs needed to do was go on offense. Yeah. Sure. Like Carrie Lake has given her all kinds of fodder to appeal to normie voters. And so, like, the fact the thing that makes me upset with the campaign that she’s running is that she is not present doing that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:49

    Right? Like, the the not debating and things like that. When you have an opponent who you can hit for being an anti vaccine election denying, like, absolutely insane person. You have to go hit them on those things. Cameras in classrooms.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:02

    Cameras,
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:03

    like, you have
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:04

    to go out and make that case, and it’s The badness of her is the unwillingness to prosecute that case against Kerry Lake. That’s the criminal part here. Like, I can’t even blame everybody else. I mean, I can blame everybody else because what they’re doing is they want to protect themselves by being like, well, she’s running a horrible campaign. Like, I can’t be attached to that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:22

    And like, I just think don’t understand why they don’t go to her and say, get out here. Like, we’ll back you up. Like, this is really important. Like, go out there, and we will stand behind you, and we will say that you’re right, and we’ll all go hit her. Like, where’s the team unity?
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:34

    Like, put on the Jersey everybody and go get Kerry
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:37

    Lake. Give me a prime
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:38

    time rally, seven o’clock at the Arizona state football stadium, where you got the where you got Obama and the heavy hitters out there just ripping Kerry Lake over and over again. Like, here is that this lunatic said this thing. This lunatic said that thing. Like, I mean, the the the hit list on Lake is a mile long. It’s on abortion.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:59

    It’s on schools. It’s on vaccines. It’s on I guess, maybe you don’t wanna talk about the border stuff, but her border shit is is even insane. It’s about how she wants to use the state’s money. I mean, like, you could just go down the list.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:13

    And yet nothing. But,
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:16

    Tim, the price of gas is so high, and it’s the fault of
  • Speaker 6
    0:40:21

    the Republican governor in Arizona, and so that’s why Kerry Lake needs to be elected. Right? Well, that’s the norm what the Republicans are saying, which five I’m talking about the
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:32

    normal democrats. I’m putting this one on the democrats. Why aren’t they doing? Why are they carrying this? I’m not sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:35

    I also, by the way, Jeff Lake and Cindy McCain. God love them. They’re ambassadors now. And so I guess they can’t weigh in on this. But could do they have proxies?
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:46

    You know, can we just at least leak to the fucking Arizona Republic that we heard that Cindy McCain voted for Katy Hobbs? I I’m just I give me anything. Give me anything. Anybody. We’re two
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:58

    weeks out. What what would your if you had to bet five bucks on this?
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:02

    What do you bet
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:03

    on? Do you bet on on lake or hubs or an election that devolves into some sort of recount fight
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:14

    in sanity. Full disclosure,
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:15

    I talk about it on the pod. I’m I am in I’m working at a bunch of these races. Right? Or we have ads. We have campaigns in a bunch of these races, and it’s It’s Republicans talking about why they will not support the Republican candidate because they’re anti democracy and insane.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:28

    And whatever. So one of the races is secretary of state race in Arizona is extremely important. The guy who’s running with Kerry Lake is also a massive election denier. He’s got like, anti submitting like, he’s got all kinds of crazy stuff in his past, total weirdo. Adrian Fontes is the Democrat.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:47

    Posted Nazi stuff on Pinterest.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:49

    I mean, he’s just like he’s so
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:52

    stuff on Pinterest. Wow.
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:53

    You know? Just
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:53

    a little Nazi Pinterest. Not a big deal. Usually recipes So
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:58

    right now, Katie Hobbs and Cherry Lake are in a statistical tie in a lot of these polls. But Adrian Fontase is running several points. Ahead of Mark Finjan. He’s like like legitimately up on him, which means that there are people making that distinction. And so I could make an argument, a really optimistic one.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:17

    Sarah the optimist, that Republicans are the ones peaking too soon. That they peaked last week, and that right now, gas prices are coming down, stock market is up, and that if Democrats would just go on offense in this moment, draw the contrast, hit hard because this is this is true in Wisconsin between Evers and Tim Michaels. It’s a similar situation you got I got Evers. It’s just that Evers is the incumbent, but he’s also got a charisma problem. Michaels is the trumpy, you know, businessman or whatever.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:46

    But, like, circle the wagons, get Obama out there. I might leave Joe Biden at home, but, like and and push really hard. Democrats should marshal every resource all the money they should focus on these governor’s races. Because one of the big things that’s happening, like, if you look back, I I I might have said this to you guys, but, like, the turning point in the race was when Democrats had been really winning on abortion, but Bronda Sanchez put a bunch of migrants on a plane and he changed the conversation away from abortion to immigration, which no matter how bad you think that stunt was, is better territory for Republicans in every way, and then they just buried people in crime ads gas prices went up, whatever. But it is possible to return that narrative.
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:26

    To be like, democrats make late push, but like, you gotta do those things that create those headlines because that headlines are part of what’s creating the vibe of now. Right? Is the sense like everything’s collapsing? You know, Republicans are in offense in Oregon, and offense in Washington, like, You can do those things too. Democrats could do those things.
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:44

    Take the Ohio race, go in for Tim Brian, push, go on offense places, push the envelope, get people to talk about, like, you know, they’re collapsing. The Republicans are collapsing in New Hampshire because of Baltic. There are ways to go on offense here and make a closing argument that ends things on an upswing for you democrats. It’s not over yet. There’s two weeks to go.
  • Speaker 4
    0:44:02

    Ryan is
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:03

    gonna lose by six and Bulldog is getting
  • Speaker 4
    0:44:06

    close. Sorry. I think the lake will probably win,
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:08

    but it not definitely. It is a close race. And I think that your point about Finchum and Fondis is well taken. I think that there will be craziness that happens because I’m worried about violence, but I think there’ll be craziness with the the counting. It takes Arizona wild account.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:21

    We all live through this. But I don’t you know, I I I’ve I’ve continued to say I won’t I would not be surprised if governor Democratic governor candidates out perform? What happens in the environment on the national stuff? Because the abortion thing, that is still even though that’s not what is being talked about as much in the narrative, that that will still drive votes. And so, you know, we’ll see.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:43

    But I guess, Sarah, like, you have to do something. They have to they have to change the momentum. And and I think that it is, at this point, just as likely, that Hobbs wins narrowly as that LakeWins kind of handily and carries across masters with her at least and possibly even finch him. I I think the finch him is the least likely of that, but possibly even finch him. I I I think that that outcome is just as likely as a Katie Hobbs narrow victory and a a lake narrow victory is probably the most likely outcome.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:13

    But all three of those are possible and the race isn’t over and just like asleep walking
  • Speaker 6
    0:45:18

    into letting this woman win Arizona is insane. My prediction is that regardless of what happens, Carrie Lake will declare victory basically as soon as the polls close. Yeah. Well,
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:30

    that’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:30

    a safe bet. And
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:31

    I I think that that’s part of Right? I mean, the minute the polls close, she’s gonna say we won. And, like, that’s the most alpha, a chumpy thing to do. And, you know, she’ll move from there. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:44

    So yesterday, we had the release of a letter from the house progressive caucus led by Pramila Jayapal, they released this this stupid letter calling for the Biden administration to reassess their position on Ukraine and really focus on talks with Russia. It’s very bad. In twenty four hours later, they retracted it. Which is what responsible governing parties did? They didn’t double down and double down and double down.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:14

    They didn’t say Actually, you go try to find the the person who is recruiting in migrants in Texas. We don’t we’re we’re not gonna say who that was, but they just said, yep, this was bad. We should have done this. This is this is a wrong thing to propose and would actually be harmful. We take it back, which is, again, what a responsible governing party does.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:38

    Instead, I see people dunking on them on Twitter. And I’m like, you know, oh, look at them. They’re saying, you know, oh, it’s a you know, they they Like, why why I’m sorry. They’re doing the right thing. My young intern put out
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:47

    the statement. And it’s a little confusing how they let that happen, so it was a it was a mistake. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:54

    This is, like, this is preposterous. They’re they’re blaming it. They’re blaming a staffer. And and, like, maybe that’s maybe that’s true, but either way, I I gotta tell you, JBL. Understand it is good that they withdrew it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:03

    That is the right thing. It is better than it is better than doubling down, which is what Republicans would have done or whatever. This is like the kind of thing that is so incompetent, two weeks before a midterm. You undermine the president’s position and put something out like this. Like,
  • Speaker 4
    0:47:19

    this isn’t this isn’t sad. Understand and
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:20

    agree. And then, like and then you have to pull I
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:22

    think you pull it, but it like, the whole thing looks ridiculous. I understand and agree. But
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:26

    on the other hand, are taking the politics aside from it. This is the responsible governing thing to do. No. Not the politics of
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:33

    it. Like, the competence other. Can I give a
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:37

    contrarian Sarah Ask rose colored glasses view of this? Sure. Maybe their incompetence kinda helps Biden a little bit. You know, makes him reminds people that he’s he’s tough and normal and strong and wants to take on the Russians and he’s not actually owned by these these liberal assholes. Everyone says that Biden is just a puppet for the squad and it’s like, The squad puts out a stupid statement.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:02

    Biden’s administration says fuck you. No. A couple smart democrats like my man, Jake Auchincloss, It’s a great name. It’s a
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:10

    great name. Put out
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:11

    as put out statements talking about how dangerous and wrong this is. And the progressive cock just says, I’m sorry, mister Biden, mister president Biden, you are right.
  • Speaker 4
    0:48:20

    I don’t
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:21

    know. Maybe it kind of maybe it could position it as a little bit more of kind of alpha move that debunks the concerns that are out there, that the administration is really just at the beck and call, the far left. I mean, it’s hard to imagine this happening in Kevin McCarthy’s caucus, which is the Freedom caucus putting out a statement And then Kevin McCarthy being, like, no, that was wrong. And the Freedom caucus being, like, yes, sir, mister McCarthy, you are right. We were wrong.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:48

    Right. That’s very hard to imagine. So there’s something to be said for that. No? No green shoot there for you?
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:53

    I’m
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:53

    gonna be the bad guy here and tell you that, like, this is the problem. This is like a habit. Right? Like, Joe Biden comes out and says something. And then, like, his staff walks it back.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:03

    Like, he and he makes, like, kinda big important foreign policy statements and, like, then his staff is out there trying to clean it up. Like, the amount where Democrats say something and then they’re like, no never mind or that’s not really what we think. Like, I would say that if we hadn’t just had the most inept most insane Republican president of our lifetime. I would be looking at these guys being like, are you serious with all this? This is crazy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:26

    I feel
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:27

    like
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:27

    every Democrat needs to hire either a dad or a lesbian mom who’s between the age of thirty eight and forty eight and who it feels very uncomfortable with the new woke language and have that person be the approval person on every piece of communication that goes out. Do think a lot of these problems stem. I don’t know if it’s true that it was really a young junior intern that put out the press release, but I do think that a lot of these problems stem from who is controlling the communication with this media and the communication on social media, and they are like twenty six year olds Brooklyn progressives, love Brooklyn progressives, love the twenty six year old Oakland progressives. I’ll see it start line later. But, like, you know, we just we need a check on that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:13

    We just need, like, a a guy with dad jokes, you know, or mom jokes, whatever. Just, you know, a middle of the road, get rev reverend warnock, you know. Somebody with a sweater vest and some dad jokes to just look at all the communique’s before they go out. Alright.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:31

    Before we get out of here, cleanup from last Thursday night, is there anything that you guys would like to share with me? From the big live event? I thought I
  • Speaker 4
    0:50:39

    did a nice
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:40

    job hosting. I don’t know Jabil. Did you listen to it? You wanna grade me as, you know, give me a figure skating judge? I didn’t listen to
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:46

    it. Is it available?
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:48

    That’s all that’s available. This is this is amazing. Tim’s response is I think I did a good job hosting. Well, okay. Well, you’re critical of
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:53

    my clothes. I didn’t I didn’t close it down on the clothes. I thought I did. I I was I’m not a professional, but I I I moved. I thought you meant on your clothes as in
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:01

    what you were wearing. And I was gonna say, I did not make front of your clothes Charlie made of your clothes, because you were wearing a pink hat, or I made fun of you on
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:09

    stage. Peach. It was Peach. Actually, that was Peach, not
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:12

    Pink.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:12

    But it’s okay. I also had a lot of necklaces. It was awesome. Man, the people are great. It’s the best.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:20

    A very good you know, usually, like I expected at the bookstores. Here’s the thing. When going around on the book tour at the bookstores, I have a couple of people who are super bowl or fans that come. But the majority audience are people that are pretty gray in the hair. K?
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:34

    I love my elders and all that, and that’s wonderful. It’s type of people who show up to bookstores. Everyone has things going on. I I I was impressed by just the demographic, you know, we’ve we’re we’re bringing some fans from all of the generations. That’s nice.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:50

    I like that. I love hearing from people. And it was really good. I do have one of the things, J. V.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:55

    Unless you wanted to you had any questions, follow-up questions about what you missed? No. I’m here to absorb. I received a message yesterday from a mutual friend, and they said, hey, my friend and former roommate drag queen Margaux, has agreed to go on the Jesse Waters Show, tomorrow night. And Jesse had been talking about how it’s inappropriate for children to see drag shows.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:24

    On a show last week and he found the Hershel Walker of Drag queens to come on the show and say that she agrees and does not want children at her shows and she would walk out if a child showed up. And so drag queen Margot is being invited on to rebut it. And as soon as we finish taping this, as soon as we finish taping this, I’m gonna talk to her and give her some tips for her appearance with Jesse Warner. So I’m just wondering if you guys have any advice or guidance that I should give her? I
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:57

    have three things to say. Alright. Great. The first is that the drag queen discourse is only one rung above the Kitty litter box discourse, the human litter box discourse in, like, its stupidity relative to our actual culture. Two, when it comes to actual drag queens and, like, I, if you’ve, like, if you are in the LGBT community, you are as, like, going to drag Queen Bingo or whatever, those were not children appropriate.
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:25

    None of them, if they’re barely adult appropriate, drag queens or mean, they yell at you, Part of their whole schtick is to be as cruel as possible while you’re there. Like, that’s the point. If you’ve ever gone to drag brunch, none of these things are appropriate for children. Don’t take your children there. Excuse
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:39

    me. Excuse me. I’m sorry to interrupt. I’m a parent. I can take my kid to whatever I goddamn, please.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:43

    And and I will take my child to a drag brunch. You can’t tears. About all the stupid shit that the maggas make their kids watch on TV. I know there’s plenty of shit I don’t think is appropriate. The dragbranches are
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:54

    mean they’re like inside is it like drag queens or triumph the insult comic dog? Is that what it is? That is like
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:01

    that was always the shit I
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:03

    didn’t tell that. Having never been to one of these events.
  • Speaker 4
    0:54:06

    Yeah. Yeah. Of
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:07

    course, anybody’s welcome to take their they people can do whatever they want. To take their children. Do I think that culturally, would I say that that’s an appropriate thing to do? I do not believe it is an appropriate thing to do.
  • Speaker 4
    0:54:18

    Well, that hurts
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:18

    my feelings, I guess, but I don’t live in suburban Maryland like you do. So I understand that maybe we’re that we have, like, a little different cultural take You’re not
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:25

    fun and affirming. It’s not like
  • Speaker 4
    0:54:28

    a like
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:28

    a we’re all in this together
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:30

    or something. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:54:32

    Rainbow.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:32

    I thought I just assumed that a drag brunch would be, like, a big, like, happy thing. Not a not a, like, an insult to something. There’s also reading.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:39

    There’s reads. There’s insults. Yeah. There’s a little bit of both. Interesting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:44

    Okay. I
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:44

    mean, the the ones like that I have been to, which are great fun. Usually, what happens is, like, city folk take their bougie parents to them. And like a drag queen, like, does a Beyonce dance, make some Dildo jokes, and then, like, rides on the dad to make him uncomfortable. Yeah. And, like, I would say that’s a pretty standard thing and, like, I wouldn’t take my kids to that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:05

    Would you take your parents
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:06

    to that?
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:08

    No. I I actually never like, I I’ve never quite understood the allure. I and now the brunch was terrific and I myself would go with my friends and, like, you know, eat sushi at eleven AM and drink mimosas. Like, that’s a fun time, but I wouldn’t wouldn’t say it’s like kid fair. Well, this is a really great option to
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:23

    know. It’s nice to know that we you know, are culturally, you know, having different differing opinions. Last week on the show, we had a disagreement about pot gummies. Now about the drag queens. And so this I know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:35

    So now this is part of your olive branch, you know, for people who are like, oh, the bulwark. They’ve gone to Wolk. You know, they’re fully in with the Trans community, and they love the Drag Queen Bingo Bingo Bingo. No, actually. The publisher of the Bulwark feels deeply uncomfortable at Drag Queen brunch apparently and does not want to take children there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:52

    So that is like kind of an olive brand. Choice
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:55

    drag queen drunk myself not gonna take my kids. It’s an olive ranch for you to the maggus. That’s nice.
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:59

    What was your third what was your third point? You forgot? No. No.
  • Speaker 4
    0:56:02

    I just Can I
  • Speaker 2
    0:56:04

    give that
  • Speaker 3
    0:56:04

    to
  • Speaker 1
    0:56:04

    you? Tim, because I I have that. Here’s my advice. Don’t ever fucking go on a hostile program for two reasons. K?
  • Speaker 1
    0:56:14

    The first reason is that those people are making money. That’s why Jesse Waters goes on TV every night. He’s not doing it for the discourse. He’s not doing it for for the furtherance of ideas. He’s doing it to make money.
  • Speaker 1
    0:56:25

    Why would you go on to somebody you don’t like show and help them make money? That’s insane. But secondly, here’s here’s a thing that I think people are not media professionals, maybe don’t understand. When you go on to somebody else’s show, you are going to lose First time, every time because they control the format. I would not go on to one of these guys’ shows because no matter how smart and clever you are, you can’t get the best of them because they own the editing button and they own the format.
  • Speaker 1
    0:56:57

    In the same way that if somebody wanted to debate me and print, be really fucking foolish of them because I’m very good at it. Like, you don’t you don’t walk into somebody else who does this for a living on the other side and think that you’re gonna get a fair hearing. It’s crazy to ever do that. Well, I was actually looking for
  • Speaker 2
    0:57:13

    advice for Margot for performance tonight. That was not helpful in any of the three counts. What are you gonna say, Tim?
  • Speaker 4
    0:57:20

    Well,
  • Speaker 2
    0:57:20

    I think that I’m gonna tell her to be on offense, which is exactly the type of advice that I would hope that Sarah Sarah would have would have said. I said, this is live to tape. You can talk for as long as you want. If he wants to try to interrupt you, don’t worry about him. It’s your conversation, not his.
  • Speaker 2
    0:57:37

    He can ask you a question. You can just start talking about all the important parts about drag and how that’s been affirming for you and that you don’t think that the government should be getting in anybody’s way that’s trying to do something and that you can be on offense on parental rights. And I don’t understand that the network that wants parents to be able to have rights. If parents want to bring their kid out to the wholesome Margo, the drag queen, drag queen show where we read books, I think that that should be perfectly fine for them to do. I don’t know why it’s any of your business, and I don’t really remember Jesse Waters bringing up Denny Hastur and his traffic conversation.
  • Speaker 2
    0:58:11

    And I was just wondering if you’re planning on doing any segments on the actual child molesters. So, you know, something along those lines. I don’t know that that exactly what it’s gonna be. I was gonna let Margot tell me what her plans were, and I was gonna just try to nudge her more towards an offensive posture. And we’ll see how it goes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:58:29

    I I concur. I would not have done it. I appreciate your non advice. She’s not on for a few hours now. So if anything comes up, you can let me know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:58:37

    And if it’s good, we’ll see it on Twitter. And if it’s not good, we’ll just pretend like this never happened. And that’s Margo buzzing in right now. So I think that’s it. I gotta go help her out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:58:47

    Good show,
  • Speaker 1
    0:58:47

    long show. Everybody. Hit the subscribe button. Leave us a review. Give us five stars and follow us We’ll be back next week.
  • Speaker 1
    0:58:56

    Bye. Peace. Bye.