This Is Our Origin Story (with Adam Brody)

Hello. And welcome to the next level podcast. I’m Tim Miller along with my bestie JVL. You might be noticing this is a new Sunday addition of the next level. We’re gonna be coming at you now two times a week, double the next level, double the fun.

And in these Sunday additions, we’re doing something a little different. A little bit for your weekend, you know, to maybe take some of the stress level down of just all of the all of the horrible that’s happened in the news every day. We’re gonna be bringing in people from outside of politics, outside of punditry. And we’ll chat a little bit about the news, but then a little bit about their life and, you know, kind of, learn about some things, besides politics, have some banter, give you a little something to listen to when you’re walking the dog. Fun.

We’re gonna have fun.

Fun. We’re gonna have fun. We’re not used to doing fun because we all live in the worst possible timeline. But I think we’re gonna have fun. But

the board can have fun. And so this week, we’ve we’ve taped the first first episode of this. And JBL, was it fun? Do you think we had fun?

I mean, I had a ton of fun because our guest was fantastic. Yeah. Dude, can we can we tell the people about it? I mean, they’re gonna see him in, like, a minute and a

half. Yeah. Let’s do it. Add him Brody. Seth Cohen.

Seth Cohen from the OC. I kind of might have implied I had a childhood crush on it. I didn’t say it right on the nose, but think he was reading between the lines. Do you think he read between the lines and noticed?

Subtext. Did it get awkward? They were subtext.

Okay. Well, it got a little awkward because he’s

had a second. Picked up what you were laying down. AND ALSO STAR OF THE UPCOMING SHAZAN FURY THE GODS, THE SECOND SHAZAN MOVIE AND IN WHICH HE PLAYS. YOUNG FRETI’S BIG MARVELIZED self. It’s so

good. We talk about the Fleishman is in trouble, which is an awesome show I just finished just to watch. So we’ll get into it. He was like shockingly candid and fun about his political views. We did like a little bit of politics as extremely cool.

So we’re gonna do this now every Sunday. Sometimes it’ll be actors. Sometimes it’ll be sports figures. Sometimes, maybe it’ll be politicians, but we’ll just do it more fun, you know, and talk a little less about politics. So hopefully, you guys like it, nominate for us, people that you wanna hear.

Give us your feedback. We’re figuring this out on the fly, but double the next level. You’ll still get your Wednesdays with Sarah Longwell and JBL every Wednesday. Before we get to Adam though, I have a little bit of housekeeping. I’m gonna do this every week just make sure we’re up to date on the news.

Before we get up to date on the news, one housekeeping item. I was fooled on Wednesday’s next level by a prank. Nick Cannon is not a shoot punk dude. Nick Cannon is starting a prank show and I was the first victim. I got pranked and he is not actually starting a show where he’s trying to find a woman to birth his thirteenth child.

He’s starting a prank show would have been a funny show. I mean, nadolism, go nadolism. Why not? My party is pro nadolism this week. So, you know, I I would have been pro, but I just we don’t like to be fake news here at the Bulwark.

I just want to clean that up. I want to just hit on two other things really quick, JBL. Have you seen the lieutenant governor at Tennessee? His his Instagram activity? Is that come across your radar?

No. What’s what’s he been up to? Tennessee seventy nine year old man, a great grandpa. Seems like a good gunfear in man and On in Instagram. He’s been posting a lot of fire emojis.

Are you on insta? Do you send fire emojis?

I’m not. I I’m sorry. I don’t I don’t do Insta. What does the fire emoji mean? Yeah.

Well,

so generally, it means hot. Like, you’re hot. Oh, that’s hot. Okay. He also posts some hearts, which generally means love.

You know, I love I love this. So maybe you met this in a grandfatherly way, but there’s a young gentleman, about twenty years old, kind of androgynous, you know, which we support here at the next level. Of, you know, a little bit of a new judgments. Yeah. A little bit of a fem boy kind of vibe.

And he is posting pictures of, like, his butt and skirts and the lieutenant governor is is is replying with fire emojis and comments about how he’s bringing brightness to his day. Which is kind of interesting because Tennessee right now is going through the most anti gay legislature in the entire country, passing drag bands, asking different rules and schools. I am modeling after the Florida bill, anti trans legislation. So it seems like there’s a little bit of a conflict there.

Do you think that these Instagram posts were with orient intent? Oh,

Oh. They seem brilliant to me. Okay? They seem brilliant to me. It might be a felony.

Anyway, go check, just, you know, for your own

enjoyment. I’m hoping that lieutenant governor is able to live his life as his authentic self without shame and just, you know, enjoy people. As long as he can still put in jail — bad people. Right. That’s the most important thing.

So long as he can still prosecute the the the gays, not

the the other the gays. The real gaze, not the fake gaze, not the ones not the ones putting five dollars into young man’s only fans, but like the actual out gaze or the ones that need to be punished. Anyway, one other piece of good news, one piece of good news before you tell them. Someone experienced the consequences of their actions ish. This week.

Do you wanna

talk about that? One of the things I always say, Tim, one of my maxims — Yeah. — is that if you wait long enough and you’re patient enough, But

eventually,

you will get to experience life’s greatest pleasure, which is watching bad things happen to bad people. Of course,

we need Sarah here to counter you. It’s

a rare, rare bird. But this week, a judge in Colorado for a disciplinary hearing, centered, Jenna Ellis. The famous lawyer and the great legal mind of the maga movement for making some factual misstatements. During her her her her turn as an officer of the court, and she stipulated to ten of them. And and she she took her medicine.

She took her scincher and then promptly ran off to mock Mitch McConnell for falling down. Yeah. Because she learned her lesson. Oh, also, she’s a Christian. She’s very, very Christian.

These are the best people. These

are the people that would be, you know, in an office in Trump’s second term. Just a few wrong facts just to make sure our listeners are up to speed. Trump did not, in fact, win in a landslide. Jenna admitted that that was incorrect. Trump did not find five hundred thousand illegal votes that had been cast in Arizona.

She admitted that was a lie. Yeah. Trump’s team did not have evidence of a core an effort in all these states to transfer votes from Trump to Biden, manipulate the balance, to count them in secret, also a lie. The statement that Hillary Clinton didn’t see the twenty sixteen election. We all were alive on Earth in twenty sixteen and knew that was also untrue.

So thank you, Jenna. For coming clean on that. Thank you to Tucker for letting us know that you passionately hate Donald Trump. It’s nice to just get these facts out there, and I’m sure that they’ll be all over Mega Media this week, so everyone can know the truth. Right?

So Tim, you’re you’re a cradle Catholic. You

you remember where it says into Corinthians that thou shalt not bear false witness unless you are attempting a coup. Unless you’re attempting a coup. And trying to incite liberal tears. And in those cases, In those cases, it’s cool. And that’s why that’s why the Christians are the bestest.

Install a thrice Mary game show host into power. It’s cool. Everyone, go like, go subscribe, subscribe on YouTube, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, tell your friends maybe your friends don’t love daily politics, but maybe they they want a little hint of conservative tears and Seth Cohen in their life. Send this podcast to them. Please enjoy it.

We’ll see you back here on Wednesday with Sarah Longwell up next my new best friend. Adam Brody. Adam, it’s pretty cool, like, kind of our origin story. I met you this past weekend at CPAC. You’re hanging out the Sarah Longwell booth, the anti

white choice

voting thing, and

Yeah. Much to much to discuss. I those are my people. They’re fighting a good fight. Yeah.

We’ll just keep marching the weeks tighter and tighter on that band till there is no daylight between insemination and legal personhood. Okay.

So we’ll get back to that. So I wanna start on politics with your Twitter Myo’s vote or die, which is pretty intense. It was one of the reasons we invited you. And and so I’m just wondering your your your origin story of, like, kinda getting into politics —

Yeah. —

was it or was it not just inspiration from your father, Sandeep, Cohen or what was it something else?

No. It wasn’t Sandy Cohen, although it was a little high parents. They weren’t overly political, actually, but they were lifelong democrats. So I was raised with that. Not to say that we had political discussions, there just wasn’t any, like, worshiping of Reagan or anything.

And then I’m forty three, so I was, like, you know, twenty one when nine eleven happened. And I remember That was the first presidential election right before when Bush won, you know, that I was paying, you know, fairly close attention, not like I would now, but still, you know, paying any attention to really. And being pretty miffed about it. Yeah. And then nine eleven happened, and I thought, you get what you pay for it.

I don’t mean that it’s bush’s fault. I just meant, like, well, now we have a crisis and we have an idiot. You know? And, obviously, in hindsight, in the context, Now he seems like a paragon of virtue and highly intelligent

You had no idea how how big the idiots we could get, did you?

Yeah. Yeah. But at the time, even as a young man I thought and an uneducated young man, I thought at least formally, I thought, like, this is gonna be bad and despite your values even or whatever, your political means, this is why you don’t have, like, intelligence is is important in a leader. And then it kinda went from there. I also was on the set of the OC a few years later, I remember an AD a second idea of the guy who would not his name was Sean, and he would knock on our trailers and stuff.

And he was very leftist and we would have some discussions. And I was getting all my education from the Los Angeles times and NPR and New York Times. And he gave me a chomp scheme book. I think it was an understanding power. I couldn’t even recall what was in it exactly, but it resonated with me a bit.

Yeah. And so that kinda set me on a path a little bit as well. And yeah. But I’ve been increasingly more engaged ever since Yeah.

I mean, you’re you you aren’t a moderate squish podcast here. So let’s let’s be a little careful with the chomsky. Do you

guys I know that could be a bad word. What’s a squish? You

know, we’re squishy. We’re centrist. What’s wrong? We like

to Oh, jazzy.

Sign. Yeah. Squish. Political squish. Not hard line.

You know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Not that much right now. I mean, I like I like. I think it makes it a fun conversation. Go ahead. Yeah.

For sure. So I’ve been monitoring your feed and A lot of AOC. I think, are we pinned? AOC might be pinned? Would you say that’s not understand

the terminology? Like I mean, I’ve seen pinned, but I don’t know what you PIN is You actually don’t really talk to the feeds. And you say, like, I think I’ve just been off for a handful of months, and so it’s just sitting there. I’ll come back when there’s an election and and or maybe a charitable thing to tweet, but I think I’m off it for good. I think

You quit over Elon or just just with mental health.

Yeah. Partially. Yeah. I can’t stand him. I can’t stand him.

Big respect, Adam Brody.

Right. Yeah. Hundred percent. I’m

always yelling at

my colleagues to get off of Twitter. Always.

I also had this

you weren’t that far off. You replied to my DM within, like, twenty four hours. So I don’t you don’t have to call you out. You’re you’re not totally

off. It came through my email. Okay. And so I I you know, it’s working. I, you know, I I’ve only gone back on a few times to do the DM, like, respond to DM’s that can make it through my some don’t.

It’s weird. But I missed a few. But anyways, I really enjoyed my time and I was on it for, like, four or five years. I learned a lot I, you know, followed interesting people, but, you know, I put it down for three months or just like a quite three months. Did more reading, read longer articles, listen to longer podcasts, etcetera.

Still feel like I’m as informed. And I opened it back up to reply to some DMs and work stuff. And it was just like a box of people like a war going on. And instantly, I’m I’m like, oh, Charlie Kirkner said this, etcetera, and all these people that I don’t fucking care about. And in fact, like, that’s their job is to make me angry.

And I just don’t want them in my mind. And, yeah, I think it’s bad for you. I came up with this hypothesis yesterday, but I believe it enough to say it, which is that, like, I’m sure social media. I think it’s ultimately gonna be good for human. I think it’s a necessary step in our evolution as a species and we can cooperate on a larger scale.

But I think as I understand it, the agricultural revolution and maybe I read the Senstapiens. I don’t know if that’s too fucking lofty for you or not. That’s why it’s got it. Alright. That the lifespan for your average, like, farmer or after was worse for maybe a hundred years, maybe a few thousand years.

For a while your city dweller life was worse than your hunter gatherer life because you could be exposed to famine more easily and disease and etcetera. But clearly, it was a necessary step in, you know, in growing civilization. Right now, that’s how I’m thinking about social media. Like, for sure, it’s bad for your heart and like is gonna lower life expectancy for this generate, you know. But I do still think it’s a worthwhile and necessary step in sort of furthering the you know, and and the More

Gen Z. They’re in the famine and disease era. Alright. Mass communication.

They’re gonna We are too. We are too. I mean, everyone’s gonna take a hit. I just felt like as I opened it up again with being off for three months, I was just like, oh, fuck. This is so clearly bad.

It’s like, for you, isn’t it me as an individual, even though I think it’s furthering conversations and probably good for the community as a whole, eventually, if not already.

Why don’t you bother? Yeah. JBL’s getting excited over there. Yeah. Listen to you.

Jim, it’s like you’re

talking to me. I’m going

down. I’m going to be the last Japanese soldier fighting the war against

Charlie Kirk. It’s just gonna be me and Charlie left on there. You’ll be on there arguing against spots. Not even knowing that their chat GPTs will be, you know, running all of the Twitter accounts and you’ll still be there posting because you’re a poster. I’m

a poster. My blog is always skyrocketing. I’m never leaving.

And so AOC, do

you are you not a fan of AOC? She’s fine. I mean, she’s okay. I just you know, I was trying to

We’re just trying to

position you for our listeners, like, is that like, is AOC you know, you just kind of engaging in mostly see Instagram ramps and, like, that’s where you kind of position yourself in the political world these days or have you been kind of inspired by Joe Biden’s great bipartisan successes on the infrastructure bill.

Yeah. Honestly both. Like, I am a fan of Biden the man you know, I as much as I know and I don’t claim to know the deepest parts of anyone’s, I all I can do is, you know, intuit what I think, but I think I’m a fan of him as a person, and I think he’s doing as good a job as could be expected. You know? Obviously, there are missteps, but by and large, he’s kinda taken the party platform and pushed it, you know, I feel like in a pragmatic way.

And and with her, I just think she’s a great communicator, and I think she’s very talented. I also think she’s very brave. She’s like a poster child for these you know, the antichrist for half the country. And that’s a dangerous position to be in. And and you feel a lot of strength and, you know, I mean, So our people on the other side, but I don’t think they’re in the same kind of literal danger.

You don’t think they’re like the pussy hat moms like, going to the resistance or, like, a physical threat to —

Nine degrees. — larger than ten degrees. Yeah. Perhaps. Perhaps, but not to the same degree.

Imagine like.

Hot cappuccino right to the grill, margarita, green, we know, and she walks into the wrong coffee shop. Their ought to be did get denied that meal, that one time.

When were you on I know that was What do

you see if they actually do? Face discrimination.

Fuck yeah. Fuck. Yeah. I think you should be into that big plan to move. I think so many of these people should never be allowed in public life again.

I think, like, at least in certain circles. I have no problem with it. I mean, what other tools do we have? Some of this shit was so egregious. So egregious.

And yes. And the short answer is yes. I think she’s gonna have different males. Adam, I don’t wanna bring the

vibe here down, but I I do this for you. None of these people will ever pay any price for any of

it. There

will be a handful people, like, you know, nobody’s who go to jail because of, you know Yeah. Yeah. January sixth. But the rest of them, the people who enabled it, the Donnie’s

been in the

world.

The people who’ve made, you know, millions of dollars off of it, made their credit off of it. Molly, I mean, none of those people even get, like, mild talking to’s you

know, you think maybe it hurts Kushner and Ivanka a little bit in terms of, like, are they kind of laughed out of Manhattan or do they get to hang around Manhattan? This

is your only power. Honestly, I know that, you know, your new tweets, you support these, you know, volunteer organizations, is really good and it’s admirable. But, like, all of that’s kind of on the margins. Your only real power is shunning Ivanka.

Yeah.

And and this is why you’re here. Because we wanna encourage you to shun them as

much as possible. And

to shun them, you have to shun those who refuse to shun them. Have you hear of them attending? You know, some sort of confab? Sure. West Hollywood?

Or, you know, in Manhattan, you need to make sure that the that the other people that attended. Sean them. So I used to work with Sean Spiser, for example. Hey, Sean. Yeah.

The fact Sean went to the Emmys and have, like, actors like, wanting to get selfies with him. And I was, like, no. Bam. You’re giving

him a hug.

He was on, like, dancing with the stars right away. And I thought — Yep. — fuck you ABC. Fuck you, ABC. So our power to, like, exact justice with the people who behave terribly is basically zero.

You know, but what can you do? What can you do is you can go out and put good out into the world, which is what you have done with all the charity work that you do with voices for children in Latin America.

Thank you. And yet, I don’t do I don’t do nearly as much as I could or should, so I don’t wanna sit here. That’s true for all of us, though. Right?

And this is what I’m saying. Everybody in their own little communities where you can. Like, that’s that’s how you eventually win the long war. Right? You you choose some things.

There’s another way. We can beat them. You know? Yeah. We beat beat a lot we beat the assholes in the midterms.

That was good.

A hundred percent. That’s very true. And I do think that if there’s any, you know yeah. Maybe people aren’t going to jail, but that dirtbags out of the presidency here. That’s that’s

not nothing. So that transitions to one last thing you could do before we get to talk about the fun stuff, Adam, which is fellow, I I don’t does a teen actor count as a child actor? I don’t know if you guys consider yourselves in the same category.

So that’s all the sense that’s what’s going on because we’re we’re kind of the opposite. Essentially, we weren’t teens, you know. We’re pretending to be teens. We’re actually

acting Tim. Yeah. Yeah. I’m sorry.

Well, anyway, actual child act driven then from boy meets world. You know, another big influence on my childhood, though Ben Savage wasn’t exactly my type. He’s running. Did he seen this? He’s announcing

he’s Maybe he’s running. I just actually tell, and I just saw his brother downstairs. I

mean, I was listening to another podcast of yours, which is one of the reasons we had joined, and you and you were saying you imagined in another life If you want an actor, politics might have been one of the things you would pursue. So do you have a pang of jealousy that Ben is is living that out? Do you think maybe you should be going for the Henry Waxman seat? I

don’t know their politics either. I I you know, where’s he running now at?

He’s running for Adam Schiff’s seat. I I assume he’s

Really?

I assume he’s a no yeah. Adam’s running for senate. So so Oh, right. Adam’s shit. I was just

gonna understand it. Senate race for a second. It’s like, wow. No. Okay.

Cool. That’d have been a bold challenge.

Adam Schiff. Katie Porter,

forty four Well, maybe I can jump into to the congressional seat and it can just be an act

Do you think you could take him?

No. No. I don’t know. I don’t think I necessarily be great. I mean, I I would have to run-in a place where I could thoroughly be myself and speak my mind, you know, in a in a which makes sense that I live in a liberal enough place, so that might be fine.

I don’t think having to, like, temporary opinions seems like fun.

Are there any areas that you feel like you, you know, that you would like to speak your mind right now that maybe outside of the conventional, you know, liberal thirties?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have one which is and I’m I’m not perfect myself in this, and I I won’t continue to be. But, like, first of all, in terms of just an issue, I think guns are it’s a no brainer to me of all the issues.

I mean, of all the things that are are clear which way to go and it’s clear which way if we wanna survive as a species, you know, how the civilized world will progress. It’s so basic. And I do think that Hollywood has a role to play, that they’re not playing, that they’re very unconscious of, or Will Saletan ignorant of. Which is that, you know, there’s a obviously, trope to say, well, other countries have video games and violent movies and they don’t have stuff there, and it’s like true. But what would help us change the laws, you know, to be like to tamp down the gun worship, you know.

And I think it’s like, yeah, you can have these liberal values, but then when Brad Pitt, etcetera, but anyone. You know what I mean? When there’s outdoor advertising of all our heroes, playing a gun at you and holding a gun and imprint, you know, looking fucking cool. And it does. They’re cinematic.

There’s a real charisma to them. Weapons, I mean, and and guns in particular. But I think if you took that out of the equation, at least lowered it a lot more, the temperature of that. And for example, I don’t think they should be allowed in outdoor advertising the same way. You can’t smoke in outdoor advertising.

Can’t have a guy on a billboard smoking cigarette anymore. I don’t think you should have a guy holding a gun on a go board. Hey,

Vail. Is that tickle in your social conservative pickle at all? Do we have a typical or Jonathan Last, Adam Brody? Unity here. No.

I’m so into it. That’s pretty good. Okay. We’re gonna stop this. We’re gonna stop by unless unless you wanna fight about politics, I don’t

want to do it. Say, like, take it down and not stop making it so cool. It’s fucking easy. It’s narratively easy too. Yeah.

Yeah. Here, how’s it going? You fucking Cox it.

Rams aren’t fucking cool. No. I

can’t start with that. Cool.

I don’t I’m not I’m not I’m not with you on the outdoor bands, but guns aren’t cool. Smoking is actually kinda cool. Guns are not cool. Maybe just maybe just one man’s opinion. Anyway, okay.

The Sam

Fury of the Gods coming up March seventeenth, only in theaters. So Adam, I gotta tell you, my youngest It was six. Was so jazzed that I was talking to you today. Because — Yes. — Shazam is his favorite of all the superhero movies.

Wow. You are his favorite character in transactional?

That I don’t want he must be talking about the younger me, but but still No. He’s talking

about the EU. But that’s because your costume is blue and blue is the favorite color. And so in the same way that is chocolate milk Will Saletan taste good when it’s in the blue ikea plastic bag. Yeah. You wear the blue costume.

And so, therefore, you are the best of all the superheroes.

I appreciate that, Tom. Thank you. I I myself, my daughter is seven, and when I got the job and the first one, she’s too young for it. But the first thing I thought of instead was, like, oh, she can she can see it. This is something for us to share for her and It took a while, but now

she’s now she’s really in I think she’s in is easily I I am a superhero movie connoisseur, easily the most family pleasing of all superhero movies, maybe of all time. It’s the only one I’ve ever watched where literally all six of the people in my house liked it from, like, my wife, to the teen boy, to the teen girls, to the, you know, g money. He was like, you know, five years. It was five years all the time. So I but I gotta ask you about the sequel coming out because you got to work with Helen Miron.

Yeah. Actors wait their entire lives to you know, get to that chance to work with somebody like Dane Helen Mirren.

Did I sort of blow your mind? Was it amazing? She’s she’s working with the blue guy, so she’s all so very excited.

She’s like blue is my favorite

color. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.

It was it was awesome. In truth, I worked pretty briefly with her, but Even more so, almost because of that, I was very impressed with how outgoing, how warm she was, how know, she went out of her way to introduce herself when she was far down the makeup trailer and certainly didn’t have to. And just has a joy to leave that is like, I get why she’s doing it still. Yeah. I don’t think she owes, like, a lot in taxes or whatever and

Right. She’s like a real actor. This is like Yeah. The brits are. Right?

I mean, the the brits are like, you know, they just keep they just keep working because they love the work and this is why they do it. You know, Michael Cain isn’t like, ten movies a year up until he retired because, like, he’s an actor. It’s always an actor. I think he’s basically retired. I think his scene in Tennant.

Was his last week? Was his farewell scene? I could be wrong with that. I don’t wanna start anything. Ain’t bad rumors.

But I gotta ask you, did you get cast in this Were you did you have, like, a leg up in the DC world? Because you wrote a book for Wildstorm once part time. Didn’t you? So I assumed

you guys I co wrote it. I co wrote it with my girlfriend’s dad and his writing partner at the time. This is, you know, going on twenty years ago. But No. That didn’t.

No. You didn’t. No. You weren’t you weren’t, like, tied in with Jim Lee and no. No.

Not at all nor I was also cast briefly in a George Miller Justice League from about fifteen years ago

or

I remember that. The thing that never made it were you canceling that?

The flash. The flash.

Oh, shit.

Holy crap. Brothers too, and that didn’t I don’t think hold any sway either. It was just a case of, honestly, the thing I had going for me the most was Jack Dylan grazer who plays the Young Freddie. I play the old Freddie, I resemble, and I think that more than anything

was my leg up. That’s fantastic, man. Oh, alright. Hey, Tim. I’m sorry.

We’ll let you know.

Yeah. It’s a good start talking a lot of names with her not that I didn’t know. But what what I do like to do is sad dramas about middle aged people trying to recapture their youth. That’s right in my wheelhouse. I don’t know if you saw the Cherry Lake said that I dressed like thirteen year olds when I when I did an interview with her yesterday, which was kind of rude.

No, I didn’t. And I know you’re doing the circus. I I like that show a lot. I wanna hop back in. Haven’t seen.

Has the see the season’s

been airing? Yeah. I just started. It just it just aired. I mean, there’s a little bit in last week’s app.

But Yeah. I just passed around that. That. You can see me and Kerry. And her outfit it was I think not exactly age appropriate either, but that’s sort of neither here nor there.

I had to focus on the politics. No.

I could talk about that a lot. I didn’t I didn’t know she said that to you, but she is Fucking scary.

Seth Gorka called

him a j head. Seth

Gorka did call me dickhead. She was she was scary. I think it would be actually more accurate. Now she’s sad. She was really scary, and then she lost, and now she’s like living this imaginary world.

Now she’s like, anyway, a character that I resonated with that you have, you know, been portraying recently was on Fleischmann is in trouble. For people who haven’t launched Fleischmann, it’s just that was that last year, it’s just out recently.

Yeah. You have

a elevator pitch.

This winter. Yeah. Sure. It’s a couple going through a divorce and midlife crisis and and a few of their friends as well and kind of looking at it through a lot of different lenses or points of view?

Your character is the main character going through. The divorce is, like, on Tinder and stuff, like his girlfriend from college, basically

— Yeah. — he’s like he gets back in touch with me and I’ve never settled down and I’m a finance guy and, you know, living a more hedonistic lifestyle.

Right. So the first three episodes. It’s like Adam Brody is like taking them to the great sushi place. They’re going to the underground. They’re like mud wrestling.

They’re going to all the cool bars. Your character is also Seth, which is a little weird Seth is funny. So it’s like, boy, big change for Seth. Seth is funny. And so through three episodes, I was like, oh, man, this is great.

This is a cool character. And then as the show goes on, not to do spoilers, but, like, it kind of turns out I think that writer of the show was trying to portray your character as as having a little sad, unfulfilled life as a forty one year old hanging out with twenty year old dressing like a thirteen year old knowing all the cool clubs that made me feel bad because I was like, oh, man, I thought that this character was actually aspirational. Like, the lessons seem to bring up. Right. Right.

Really? Well, what was your what was your right time?

Is get engaged, Tim, and then you can and then at turns around.

Yeah. I mean, does that make it more sad if if I’m engaged trying to pretend to be the South character or married, actually, in this case?

Yeah. If you do it guess, half heartedly. It’s still kinda sad. Yeah. No.

I’m sorry to I’m sorry to disappoint you in that regard. What was the writer, what was Taphne, is her name? What was she saying there? Don’t know. I mean, I think everyone’s just reexamining and looking at the other side or the other half of the glass or whatnot.

And And I think it’s, you know, almost used for irony, you know, or I that’s certainly one of the reasons and, you know, while his friend is getting divorced and his newly discovering is, like, having his sexual reawakening. Here’s somebody who’s looking at the other side of it going. I think I wish I had a family. I’m feeling I’m feeling old. I’m feeling tired.

I’m feeling like I want some security and some you know, maybe I could go deeper with someone.

I’m just asking your permission then at at hypothetically speaking at forty one, is it, like, okay to have a family and want to, like, go out till three AM and have your finance bro buddy take you to the Secret Podcast? Or, you know, should you really just be kind of picking aside? What what do you think was though, right? Actually, listen.

Think, you know, you wouldn’t be human if you didn’t have both those impulses — Right. — to some degree.

I ended up sad, I guess, at the end of Fleishman. Yeah. I don’t know where he’s ghosting. Let’s wait. I didn’t hear the show.

For me, I think I know a lot of people view it as a bummer. I find it bittersweet and hopeful. I think it speaks to a particular generation and and generational angst society. But I also think, look, it’s still aspirational. They’re in New York.

It’s beautiful. They have each other. So you still kinda wanna be there. And I think in the end, it’s left in a hopeful place. I I find So I don’t while I find it sad, I find it like a good kind of sad that is, you know, hopeful and cathartic, not tragic.

Or Bulwark? It

was definitely cathartic. It was good for that for me. I guess I will just my only complaint is that you kind of like spiraled me into like a thirty six hour depression by the end of the episode. No. Like, doing the film, middle age, and stuff.

But that’s good. That’s art. That’s what you’re supposed to do. Right? It’s better than, like, having no impact.

But

that was so There’s a lot in the middle. Out. In fact, I think I’m sort of hearing, like, more rumors than anything, but, like, I think it spond a couple of divorces. That

was not the case for me. That was not the case for me, but I did that.

But think about how many marriages —

Rocky situation. I was like, don’t like deflation. I was like, this is

not a problem. By the way. We have a stable marriage. If there’s truth to that, any divorce, is it sort of kick started, like, good for them too. I mean, I don’t I don’t consider divorce necessarily being a a failure or, you know, I mean, it can that can be a positive change for people.

Alright.

JBL, do you have divorce takes as a a valid Catholic

slash — I don’t know the kid

detective.

I’d rather do kid detective, which is one of my favorite movies of the last couple of years. It totally snuck

up on me. Thanks. Thanks.

And I love the crap out of it. For a bunch of different reasons. One of which was because of I mean, it is a movie about how adults fail the kids around them. Right? I mean, you know, like his parents in the town by putting all this pressure on him when he’s a young kid.

But I felt like you was also weirdly in dialogue with one of my favorite TV shows of, like, forever of Veronica Mars. Were you a Veronica Mars guy? No. I mean, I haven’t first, I haven’t even given

it a try. I probably would like it. It’s not like I Yeah.

Rob Thomas

is really I don’t actively not like it. I just don’t know it. I’m sure that’s playing common given that they’re both, you know, start as teenage sluice. But, yeah, I don’t think that was purposeful because I don’t know that Evan who wrote it also is from that familiar with Veronica Mars. Very much trying to ape like Hardy Boys and and and Well, no.

It’s like,

but I don’t need anything. I mean, like, sort of, like, it’s in dialogue with these things. Right? It’s in it’s in it’s talking back to all of this this effective literature Eighteen is the

wrong eighteen is the wrong word. I I very much the wrong word. But, yes, it’s it’s it’s that and it’s you know, also it’s it’s sort of superimposing Chinatown on top of it a little bit.

Yeah. So a script like that comes your way. I imagine you don’t see scripts like that all that often. Right? I mean, the the movie is such a a very particular vibe to it and You realize it was something special when you when it landed

in front of you? You know, I I did, and it was a long journey, and it’s very almost still surreal to talk about it now that it finally came to fruition. About a decade ago, Evan Morgan is the writer direct he produced and kinda co directed this other movie that was really good. He introduced himself to me at Toronto and then Sundance. And we exchanged numbers.

And he’s like, I’m here with my other movie, but I I got you know, we should talk about stuff. Met him. Like, I have one idea. Sent it to me. Again, this is, like, ten years ago now.

Sent it to me, and it was the first thirty pages. He wasn’t sure where else it was gonna go. We talked about what could happen and, you know, some good areas and some potential pitfalls. And then I didn’t hear from him for, like, another year and a half, two years. He came back.

He was like, here’s the scripts. He has such a just a signature, sharp, funny, unique voice. So offbeat without trying too hard. It’s so organic and so him. I mean, it almost always zigs when you think it’s gonna zag.

But in a very, like, organic way, like, you’d always have to do that. Anyway, that’s just voice for anything you write to my opinion. And then it was a long journey of trying to get it made, and I had the script in my back pocket, and

I’d

hit up, you know, any producers on any film I was doing and seeing them. And there’s a lot of people that really responded to a script, but started to get a movie financed for anyone, and I was no exception. And it took a long time, and then it finally did. Thanks and part large, parts of the Canadian government who paid for, like, half of it. Because he’s Canadian and we filmed it in Canada and really everywhere.

Tons of local actors. Right? I mean, now I feel like almost all

of sporting actors — Yeah. — and they’re great too.

And I’m racing

global casting and they’re fabulous actors.

That’s my favorite kind of thing too is finding new and not that I found them, and I’m sure they’re all known in their own way, but still to my eyes, a lot of them are fresh faces. I love that. I love that. I love not. You know, I get so sick of going back to having to finance things.

You have to cast the trendiest person at the moment, always. And then you

want me to talk followers, do they have? You know, we’ll cast her as the love interest because she’s got three million TikTok followers. It’s just boring. Anyways,

so

so it finally happened and it was very surreal and then to just have it. I I thought it was never gonna happen. And in fact, towards the end, I was like, hey, I’m gonna turn forty soon. I’m not gonna make this if I’m forty. Should we try and make it a TV show?

I tried to pitch them, like, let’s cut it up. Let’s sell it. At least we could, like, talk to people with money and they could do it or not, but we get some answers. And he was pretty resistant to that and then it came through and he did it and, you know, and and and you guys have seen it or at least you haven’t. That’s

I loved it. No. I he made me watch

it last

week. I hadn’t seen it. I thought it was I thought it was fantastic. It was I I watched it with my father-in-law. It was a much better viewing experience with my father-in-law than white Lotus, which watch with them before, which got

a little more comfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Really quick. I wanted just I have one really quick question for you, and thank you for smoking. But it’s maybe more about me than about you, but I’d like your take on it. So when thank you for smoking first came out, I saw the main character in, like, the spirit of Tony Saprano and kind of in the spirit of our gun conversation that’s like like a hero.

Right? Like, I thought he was cool. And and I, like, modeled my a really career and a little bit after him. Gotcha. Like, there’s really bad things about me.

I understand. And so what I my question for you about thank you for smoking is does that just show something about, like, my was that my warped understanding of the world as a young man? Or do you look back on that and think, man, we kind of valorize this main dude

a little too much. I’m sure that’s true. What you just said I haven’t seen it. Since it came out came out two thousand five — Right. — two

thousand

five. I was thinking that I’m really due for a rewatch because I really liked it. And, yes, he was an anti hero at the time. Of course, he was, you know, an a moral, but that was part of his charm because he was also charming. I forget in the end I thought what Jason Wrighton did, that was an interesting and worked really well at the time, that his son is sort of the moral compass in the movie or that’s who he’s talking and teaching.

Sun is not in the book really at all. A couple scenes. And so he had the son tag along so he could I don’t know if it was just to make exposition easier or to have, like, a a sort of heart to the entire thing. And I don’t recall if Nick Nail or the main character grew sort of any conscience or he just won. You know what I mean?

And my guess is he probably just won. I didn’t grow much of a conscience. But he probably just won the day. I can only imagine that going on twenty years later, I would view it differently. And even though the whole point is he’s an anti hero and, you know, his immorality is his charm.

You know, in the same fucking way like Tony Stark, you know, his like, might think a little differently about the tipis bomb.

Yeah. We have a real Tony Stark. Yeah. Yeah. That’s true.

Okay. I wanna get to the rapid fire questions, but I have to I was gonna start this, but, you know, I felt like starting with the most awkward question probably isn’t the best way to kind of build a rapport Secret Podcast that I don’t know. I’m we’re still learning. Where

we where we

could.

Well,

I’m still learning the reps. Right? We’ll we’ll test it out. Okay. So, but I I’m wondering, my my main question for you is, are you aware of the status of Seth Cohen?

As kind of like a a gay icon among millennial gays. Do you know in West Hollywood, do you notice like Leerink eye contact among thirty somethings or anything

of that nature. A hundred percent oblivious to this.

Oblivious to this. Okay. Well, I’m happy to bring that now. Because for a certain type of alternative gay, we were not, you know, seen on TV. You know, nobody.

Right? Like I said, if you go back to two thousand three, lacing their no gay teens on TV at all.

Right. The Dawson’s

Creek guy is, like, thirty eight playing a

team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, like,

you have a couple really gay people, which is great. Love love queens. But, you know, Seth Cohen. Right? If this was made in two thousand twenty three, Seth Cohen would be gay.

Right? Like, he can’t he he’s in the indie rock. He can’t play sports. He’s a little neurotic. I

still I was shocked.

This is a gay character in twenty twenty.

I I if it was made in two thousand three, what sets telling me gay is a great question. And I don’t know. I could certainly conceive of it. Yeah. I can’t come down definitively on it, but I would say that it’s more than plausible.

It might even be probable.

We’ll take more than plausible. Okay. So we’ll put that under query. We’ll leave that as more than plausible. And we’re gonna quick grab it, fine.

We’re gonna do one, two, three, one, two, one, two, we got five. I got one. JBL got one. I got one. JBL got one.

And then we’ll leave, they’re gonna be easy and fast. Are you ready? No. Let’s do it. Okay.

Though c, among all the great things about the o c, the soundtrack was influential on my music tastes, expose me to so much in the pre Spotify days. We’re in the Napster days then. Do you have a favorite track or even of the compilations? Do you have a favorite from the OCC soundtrack?

Probably and it’s evolved over the years. And I would say very recently as recently as, like, three weeks ago, just kinda going down memory lane with my wife. I played not a surf, who is I liked a lot, but wasn’t my top wasn’t even in my top five at the time. Mhmm. And I was like, this probably holds up, like, as good as anything from like, this is in a way like, under celebrated, I think, for how kinda good.

Anyways, I just thought it was great. Always loved. Great song, and I played a few more. I was like, these these guys And they also they were a little older, I think. You know, they had some albums in the nineties, and you can kinda hear that in sort of a little or so it’s a little more systemic.

And, yeah, I thought it just held up really well. Good choice. JBL?

Favorite episode of Gossip Girl. Go? I don’t know. I haven’t really

seen it. But in fairness, my wife hasn’t really seen the OC either. For

people who don’t know that Adam is very delayed in May a sort of main main character basically of Gossip Girl. You’ve never seen it. You never saw a single episode?

I think we watched. When we first got together, we did like a swap. And I think I we but you watched like each other’s, like, the pilots where you shared a friend over and recovering. So I’ve seen the pilot and so that, you know and I I will, I want to. She’s like, but I’ll watch you.

Yeah.

Once the kids are, you know, out of the young, young phase, then you’ll get to, like, watch things

together. Totally. I recently for because I hadn’t seen EOC since it was aired. And obviously, I get asked about it a lot, but the truth is I’m I’m far from an authority on it because most that are talking to me about it. I’ve seen it more recently than I have and I watched a handful of episodes and enjoyed it and also you know, twenty years old, it was really neat that so much time had passed, and I’m even in a much different lens than I was even five or ten years ago.

And it was nice to go through the yearbook. And I found myself appreciating it more than I have in the previous twenty years.

You do have a least favorite Gossip girl, whether or not you know it, and that is that Jevonka did make a cameo on Gospels.

Yeah. Yeah. That is So so

you have a least favorite episode. We don’t have we don’t have a favorite. Okay. Do you have a favorite movie? Something you’ve worked on, you’ve not worked on, book, anything.

Just give us a couple of recs. Something that you

don’t think gets to love and deserve. Sure. Let me give you two. One, I think Avatar is I don’t

know if you heard of that. Have you heard of that?

Fuck. The new one. Have you seen it?

No. No. You think you think Avatar is underrated. I want a second.

Adam, will you please say for the camera, Sarah Longwell Avatar — Yep. —

please. Our total

address is Sarah Gosi Avatar in Do it do it do it with the three d glasses. Don’t wait till later. See it in the theaters. I’ve seen it twice. I saw an IMAX in a regular theater, but both three d I think the IMAX was cool, but I wasn’t it wasn’t that different to me as long as you have the glasses.

I expect that I took my daughter. I was like, we can leave after an hour. I’ve heard mixed things. Review seem to be kinda mixed, so I’m sure it’s okay. But It’s three that could be interesting and we can leave after now for board and I loved it.

And I could go on, but it’s rapid fire. For a blockbuster movie, a popcorn movie. I thought I did so many things well. That’s

a great wreck. Do you have a wreck that made less than one billion dollars? And and Again,

nobody’s talking about this. I mean, if you talk about Top Gun, you guys talk about this. To me, there’s tiny no comparison. I enjoy Top Gun, but this is this is another level to me. It has not gotten the love that other blockbusters have even though it’s making money.

And I don’t know. Is it if it’s making the money that the first one did. I got

a book

in one sec. Okay. Read this book. You guys don’t like this.

He’s

gonna he’s gonna break out why we did it, isn’t it? Why we did it? Why?

We did it on track. Why? We’re in public No. It’s

closed. Are you familiar with this? You might be as conservative, as squishes. Sorry, the man is there.

Why

— Right.

— that’s actually why why we did it. It was based on

Yeah. Yeah. No. No worries. It’s this conservative, you know, it’s really Ron DeSantis interesting.

I mean, it’s, you know, baloney in the the fall of anyone’s conservative in Germany during the rise of Hitler and the war. He’s a secret diary because he can’t say this in public. He buries in the yard every night. As he writes about how much he hates this guy and how everyone’s lost their minds. It’s very interesting and as you see the war progress through the background and the lens of inside Germany.

And from someone who’s not persecuted, justice going, you know, can’t believe it. I mean, and and it’s definitely through a conservative lens in a sense of, you know, he’s bemoaning the death of religion. He hates the bourgeoisie and his bemoaning like the old royalty and monarchy or whatever. But

I’m finding it very interesting. So I like it. JBL. Favorite politician or political writer? Somebody you you go to to the

You love? I like this question. You know, well,

I

don’t

know. Pause on that, you don’t take up too much time. But, like, I I

take it a lot.

Okay. Great. I like Bernie. I like AOC. I think she’s like as a personable puts it in plain English and, like I said, she’s a great communicator, writers you know, I used to like they’re not writers.

They’re more entertainers, but, like, I used to like Gilmore until I don’t now as a lot of people don’t. And and I I didn’t, like, starting in a way in the, like, even in the Trump really era at the beginning. I just found I’m, like, oh, you’re not as in form. Now that everyone’s taken their information up and now that everyone’s, like, really hunkering down and learning about the process I was like, oh, you’re not actually that informed. But regardless, I just feel like we’ve gone through this total consciousness raising, you know, we’ve totally evolved.

In the last five years. And he has it, you know? And I don’t feel like he can I feel like he can only see the bad in it and can’t see the good You can

flip it over to Showtime’s the circus? We can flip off H. B. I love this right now. Boom.

Love Easy trick. Easy trick.

Another thing that you you guessed on occasionally that I enjoy. I still enjoy Pod Save America. I like those guys. And I like it sort of

They decide I need any more compliments. They’re they are

good. They might have to cut

this out of the episode. I don’t want their eyebrows I don’t want Tommy texting me and being all, like, all excited that he got the shout out. You know?

I’m trying to think I’m trying to think writers that, like, who do I read? Sort of in the old op eds that I like. I like the lefties, you know? I like Michelle Goldberg. Michelle

Goldberg. We’ll we’ll send you we’ll send you some Rex brought in your horizon. Michelle’s great, though. She’s she’s awesome. And I and we will keep this in because she deserves to get shot it up.

Not not Tommy and not the breast. Okay. Finally, Most important final question. Your favorite LGBTQ American.

My favorite LGBTQ.

Name a gay person. This is a BaliIQ question. Name a gay person.

Yeah. Alright. Well Just a minute.

This is great. That there’s an attack on transgender Americans happening

in your file. Love it. I love

Repaul’s your favorite, though. You we could get you a little deeper on into the drag world, but

the drag I’m I’m beyond this. I don’t you know, I’ve never seen drag race, although I did just watch all of Trixie Motel. So Trixie

Motel, Trixie’s amazing.

Now. She’s cool. If we wanna go drag. But otherwise, you know, to make you happy, John Lovett.

That makes me your love. We are definitely cutting that from the fucking show. Adam Brody, that my longtime frenemy John Lovett is not the best LGBTQ plus American. Adam, dude, thank you so much for doing this. Shazam is in theaters.

JBL is gonna see it twice on on our behalf. You have a very inspiring Twitter, bio vote or die. We do totally agree with that. Like, let’s stay in touch. We’ll do this again sometime.

We’re so grateful all your time. We’ll catch you all on the next level podcast on Wednesday with Sarah Longwell on the Secret Podcast Charlie Sykes everyday. Peace out. Alright. Appreciate it.