Support The Bulwark and subscribe today.
  Join Now

Trump vs. The Pizza Place Senator (with Bill Kristol)

August 13, 2022
Notes
Transcript

Trump is trying to end Lisa Murkowski’s Senate career, but Alaska’s new ranked choice voting may well save her. Plus, focus group participants keep bringing up abortion, and another Alaskan, Sarah Palin, is attempting a political comeback. Bill Kristol joins Sarah this week — and yes, he talks about his wishful thinking in 2008.

Thank you for subscribing. Leave a comment or share this episode.

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:10

    Hello. Everybody, and welcome to the Focus Group podcast. I’m Sarah Longwall, Publisher of The Bulwark. And this week, we’re heading north to Alaska. Alaska is a super interesting state this cycle.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:23

    Moderate senator, Lisa Murkowski, is the only Republican senator who voted for impeachment who is also facing an election in twenty twenty two. The rest of them are up in later years, so they’ve got some time to recover. She’s got a Trump endorsed primary manager in Kelly Shabaka. And Trump very much wants her head on a bike. He has been out to Alaska, I think about a month ago.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:46

    To rally support for Chabakka, but there’s an interesting wrinkle. They now have ranked choice voting in the state, which they just approved a couple of years ago. This is the first major where it’s going to feature prominently. And so this Tuesday’s primary is actually instead of it just being Murkowski versus Chubakka, who are the two Republicans, it’s gonna come down to the top four candidates regardless of party, and they will advance to the general election. And the general election will then be decided by this ranked choice voting where voters rank the candidates in the order they’d prefer.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:21

    So the candidate with the fewest first place votes is eliminated, and then their votes go to their supporters’ next highest remaining choices. And this continues until one candidate gets fifty percent of the vote. If that sounds confusing to you, I agree we’ll talk about right choice voting and what it means. But it could save Murkowski against this Trump endorsed opponent, especially when they don’t have a lot of democrats who are really making waves. So this week, we asked a mix of Republicans and former Republicans how they’re thinking about the race.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:52

    And there’s also this other quick side plot in Alaska, which is that Sarah Palin is running for Congress, so we’re gonna talk about that too. But my guess today is the man, the myth, the legend, my friend, Bill Crystal, Bill, I know you’re at the beach, so thank you for doing this today. Really appreciate it. How are you doing?
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:09

    I’m doing fine. It’s great to be with you on this. Tremendously successful podcast, which congratulations. I think I was on the first episode maybe and then
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:16

    The second. The
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:17

    second. And I’ve not been on sense, which is why it’s been soaring to great heights. And now we’ll see if I can bring it back to Earth a little bit. But anyway, it’s great to be with you, Sarah, and it’s okay to have an hour break from the family at the beach.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:29

    So I’m just gonna kick off. So you and I, we move in a world of people who are concerned about the state of politics. And so we know a lot of people who kinda like this idea of ranked choice voting. I think Lisa Murkowski is a dying breed of Republican, which I am at would go to great lengths to preserve. And so I’m both somehow grateful that the ranked choice voting exists in her state because I think it’s gonna help her considerably.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:56

    On the other hand, I am bracing for how ranked choice voting plays out in the state even as I was going through the description of it, I’m confused. I gotta admit. Like, we know lots of people who think that randomized voting is, like, the thing that will save our politics. But I’ve never been able to quite get my head around it. What do you think about Reg Joyce voting?
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:16

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:16

    mean, I’m well disposed to it. I think it will be interesting how it works here at Alaska because I don’t think it’s changed the result yet, at least not in the major races, I recall. I mean, it’s used in the New York City mayor’s race, San Francisco mayor’s race, which were both very close. But I think the leader ended up as the leader. I guess the main is the one state apart from Alaska.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:34

    I think that now has it. I think Susan Collins was somewhat helped, but I I think America maybe she was ahead even without ranked choice voting in the general election. So it wedges to see if it actually shapes a result, and then what the reaction to that is. And also, as you say, how actual voters react to it in practice.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:52

    Well, in both of these groups, which again, they are Republicans and sort of former Republicans, like, there was just mixed in some people who had always been Republicans, but Trump kind of pushed out of the party. We asked them what they thought about Ring Choice voting. Let’s hear what they had to say.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:07

    Some of the organizations that I’ve been a member of have boards. They’re volunteer organizations that write open source software. And with software, is organized by a board of elected individuals. A couple of those organizations used ranked choice voting for a couple years for their board elections. And every organization that’s done it did away with it after about four or five cycles.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:36

    It was so confusing and people just never understood the theory behind how to actually use it. I think it’s It’s a good idea in paper, but when it’s actually used in the real world, it doesn’t work.
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:51

    All of the brain choice voting does is it lowers the number of people that are actually gonna go out and vote because especially with an older population, they get confused and we’ll just throw it down. You know, or remark the ballot because they don’t understand what to do. And then that vote gets thrown now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:10

    So I gotta say that both the groups really didn’t like ranked choice voting. But enough people in the state did because there was a referendum. And so people voted and they decided to choose this. But I think that for some reason there were more people on the sort of the democrat and independent side who seemed more disposed of it because we couldn’t really find people in the groups who liked it. The main thing that they were talking about was it could just like take a really long time to get a tabulation and for people to know who won, especially in Alaska, where I think they have to fly on little prop planes, like ballets from here to there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:45

    Does it worry you at all though that this could cause more distrust, Bill? I
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:50

    guess I’d make a couple of points. I mean, it shouldn’t take really that much longer than just counting the ballots, which can take a long time as we’ve seen in plenty of cases where there wasn’t ranked choice voting like in the twenty twenty. Election in some states and and with mail in votes and so forth. And in Alaska, it’s always been a bit of a slow count because of the dispersed communities. I don’t think it should slow things down too much.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:10

    I do think the first person whom you played the clip from at a common sensible point, which will resonate with people, which is block to a zillion different organizations. People will think ranging from clubs to community organizations to local governments and so forth. I was none of them used. Mac choice voting. But I would say that in fact, if you think about it for a minute, what what the places you belong to use, probably you vote for four in the first round, they throw out the lowest candidate and then have a second round of voting to say, isn’t that how all the political conventions in the old days when they were multi candidate ballots.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:42

    Right? The twelfth ballots on so wins in Virginia where I live. That’s what they did for the Republican convention. It wasn’t ranked choice, I don’t believe, but it was a series of ballots. Look, it does help certain kinds of candidates.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:53

    We think in the current circumstances, at least, and hurt others. I’m generally well disposed to it. I think in principle, it’s a reasonable way to try to reflect popular sentiment a little better, but especially at a highly polarized situation, especially with partisan primaries. Especially in the current situation of American politics. And therefore, those of us in sort of vaguely centrist ish pro democracy world tend to like it because we think it would lead towards better members of Congress or governors or mayors, but better in the sense of broader support less of a pure partisan appeal, less of an extreme appeal to the base.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:30

    That’s the question why other people will dislike it. It does bring home the truth that Some of these reforms aren’t sort of principle, you might say, not partisan. They’re they’re electoral mechanisms. They always have when put into practice a certain practical, bipartisan, or political impact. And in this case, it’s not an accent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:46

    The people pushing it have been sort of centrist. Types concerned about polarization and extremist. I think it’s reasonable to be concerned about polarization and extremism, so it’s reasonable to push this kind of reform. At this time, but it’s also reasonable to remember that some of these reforms don’t quite work out the way you hope and some of them will work out better than others and which of the different reforms that are available. Are the best ones in terms of the electoral system I’m pretty agnostic about.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:11

    But she was the Merckowski team. Final point, if I’m not mistaken, to push this for the referendum. They were thinking ahead to twenty twenty two. So it’s not unfair for the critics of it to say, well, this is just an attempt to save. Lisa Warkowski’s seat, which is unpopular with Republican primary voters.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:27

    So that’s a very partial description, maybe a true and say it is. It’s an attempt to save the seat of someone who has been willing to break with the party and try to reflect the broader views of the majority of Alaskans and not just cater to base. But either way, it’s not an accident that team Murkowski was very much in favor of putting in place rank choice voting in this election.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:47

    Well, they wanted to save themselves probably at the work of doing the right in candidacy like they had to do a couple of cycles ago where you have to teach everyone how to spell Merkowski where, you know, if she loses the primary, she runs as an independent. I think for the people toiling in the laboratories of democracy and and ranked choice voting in some of these different reforms that will be closely watched to see how it works. And I mean works, not in terms of the desired outcome, but works like functionally works and and is satisfying to people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:17

    Right. It’s kinda combining two test at once, which is fine, but it’s the open primary which is itself a test. You could have an open primary without ranked choice voting. California has open primaries, top two. In that case, advanced.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:29

    In this case, is an open primary with the top four advanced. And then rank choice voting on the final route. So just to be kind of technical, it’s both ranked choice voting and an open priority.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:39

    Yeah. Yeah. These groups were they’re kind of pro Murkowski, but I wanna first sort of play Murkowski’s pitch in this race to voters. Right? She knows she’s on the outs with a lot of the Republican primary voters, but I would say the concept she’s saying is the stuff you can say when you’re running in a general election from day one.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:57

    Right? Like, that’s how she sorta sounds. So let’s listen to Markowski’s pitch here.
  • Speaker 5
    0:10:02

    In this election, lower forty eight outsiders are going to try to grab a last goes Senate seat for their partisan agendas. They don’t understand our state, and frankly, they couldn’t care less about your future. Who can best deliver for Alaska. That’s what this race for the United States Senate is really about. Through my seniority, I get real results for our estate.
  • Speaker 5
    0:10:28

    Every day, I work across party lines to strengthen our economy, expand our energy production, take care of our trends and invest in our critical infrastructure. I’m for Alaska, always. I’m Lisa Murkowski, and I approve this message. I’d be honored to earn your vote.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:48

    So, Cheney is also her primary. That is also Tuesday. But Liz Cheney’s in a much worse position than Lisa Murkowski. It is partly because there’s no ranked choice voting. And so Liz has to actively say to Democrats and independents, like, change your registration and vote in the Republican primary, which is harder than just having ranked choice where all the Democrats and independents can either put Lisa Murkowski as their first or second choice.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:16

    So that’s one difference. But the other difference, I would say, is that the campaign that Hageman is running against Liz, is that Harriet Hageman is the pure Wyoming person. She’s from Wyoming. She’s of Wyoming. And that Liz Cheney is the carpet bagging outsider who doesn’t share Wyoming values.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:37

    And so in Alaska, Markowsky is running as the Alaska values the person from Alaska and she’s canning Kelly Chabakka as an outsider, although she doesn’t even mention Chabakka, but talks about, you know, people outsiders are trying to steal the seat. And so I guess it really does seem that Alaska and and Wyoming are similar in that. The voters there are very specific. And they have a very specific sense of place. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:04

    There’s like a whole ethos surrounding being a real Alaskan or a real Wyoming that is different from, like, you feel if you’re from, like, I don’t know, Connecticut. Like, you’re just not as dedicated to your state. And there would be people in the groups who would talk about, like, having moved there, and they would be almost, like, apologetic about it because they know that they are outsiders. And so do you have any opinion on the difference between Murkowski and Cheney and and how that’s gonna play out? So
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:34

    in terms of sort of state pride, but also state uniqueness in a sense that you need people in Washington watch out for your state. Wyoming has quite a bit of that as a lot of small states do, a lot of the western states, the more recent states in the union do, and not unreasonably. Right? And Wyoming, I think also a leadership, but they were not for example, defeating incumbents often and having people in office for a long time, the Allen Simpsons of the world, because they benefit the state. But Alaska is that tenfold or a hundredfold.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:03

    One of the two newest states, they still remember that or they learned about it in school, Alaska in particular, Hawaii had some of this too. Has had super long term serving senators and congressmen who have done a huge amount for that state or at least perceived to have done a huge amount for that state in terms of federal. Funds and making sure Alaska isn’t forgotten and and get some special treatment in terms of appropriations bills, Ted Stevens, those if appropriations chair, if I’m not mistaken and and sent a lot of funds to Alaska, which either depending on your point of view, were defensible. It was a state that late to the union needed more help for infrastructure and so forth or was poor. And then, of course, the living in Alaska is just so different than even Wyoming, which is somewhat different from living in Virginia or Maryland or even the Pennsylvania.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:47

    And Illinois or the world. So I do think the Alaska specific appeal from Murkowski is very strong. And the Murkowski has been in office a long time Frack Borkowski was both governor and senator, and then Lisa Borkowski took his seat and has held it. So it’s even warden Chinese in Wyoming, a kind of this is one of the few families that have held, you know, major political office in Alaska. So I think the Alaska appeal That makes sense.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:13

    Yeah. I think she exclusively mentioned seniority. Doesn’t she, which is sort of rare, I’d say. And these days, in the anti incumbent mood, the anti washering mood, sometimes an incumbent’s running for reelection. You really know that person’s the incumbent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:25

    You know? So I hate Washington too. It’s a northern fact that I’ve been there for twelve for eighteen or years or whatever. Bercowski, really, is in a way it’s an old fashioned campaign. If I’m the incumbent, I’ve delivered for Alaska, you won’t be there to keep on delivering Maybe you disagree with me on a few issues.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:40

    You know, I’m not even gonna match what party I’m in, but you want me there because I’ll be in that tradition of really watching out for all of us who were often forgotten. About and neglected up here in the far away from everyone else.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:52

    And do you have any thoughts on Liz just while we’re on this? I mean, we cover her a couple weeks back. We did the Wyoming groups. Even if there was ranked choice voting in Wyoming, I don’t think that would be enough to save her. But do you do you have any, like, contrary and oh, no.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:06

    Liz is gonna be fine, you know, goodness prevails.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:10

    Yeah. Yeah. No. That would be truly contrarian in our day and age and American file six. Doing the right thing with Prevail.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:16

    I mean, it can. I think she could certainly tighten the raise. The raise could be tightening right now for all we know. And there could be some default back to Liz by people who were, you know, more pro Trump than she is, which is seventy percent of Wyoming. And don’t really like it that she’s done so much with the January sixth committee.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:32

    But have a sort of grudging respect. You could imagine the grudging respect reasserting itself on election day. But I think your point earlier on was very shrewed. I mean, that Liz doesn’t benefit that much for all that the Chinese have been a Wyoming institution and so forth. She’s been so focused and I think abruptly so on the January sixth committee and on saving the constitution and the rule of law that Haggen would come after her as a more authentic.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:56

    You know, she’ll be listening to people in Wyoming kind of like Lids. So she can’t really play that Rarkowski card nearly as effectively. That I think means it is just more pure referendum on do you admire Liz Cheney or are you loyal to Donald Trump? And that’s a tough race for Liz Cheney. I don’t rule out all of us being hugely surprised since Tuesday night.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:17

    I do think the margin might be less than we see in some of polls of twenty plus points. But, yeah, it’s a very different I mean, what list JDs done at the January six committee is I can’t even think of an instance like that in America politics of knowing that it’s gonna cost you your leadership position in the house. She was number three in the house. I mean, she wasn’t just like one of twenty seven, quote, leaders. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:37

    And really risk your reelection than what otherwise is totally a safe seat. To go on a committee to accept Nancy Pelosi’s appointments. He’s become the central figure in the committee that’s a whole separate discussion about what the implications of that have been, but I think it’s been hugely beneficial. To the January sixth committee and to the whole legitimacy and sort of focus of the investigation with regard to January sixth and also the central figured planning how acceptable it is to have Trump against president, to go through all of that. That’s just gonna risk your standing as a Republican in a way that Lisa Murkowski’s I mean, to minimize these, but her occasional votes, you know, against Donald Trump or against Trump’s positions, or even the vote from impeachment in the second time we’re out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:18

    Just not comparable to what JD’s done.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:21

    Yeah. And I think that this idea of seniority, which she says in her ad, is the kind of thing you heard from these voters. Like, to have the Republicans in the group be incredibly passionate about the federal funding and that they, like, deserve the federal funding and like all the money that they need Alaska to get. Like, that is baked in really deep. And so they have a very sort of practical consideration about wanting somebody who has seniority, has Poland, Washington, and can deliver things for Alaska.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:55

    I wanna play some of Murkowski’s fans of which she had some in these groups. One of the things you’ll hear running through these is that they believe Murkowski is moderate independent and uniquely Alaskan. She seems to be trying to reflect back in these ads what she cares that people like about her. And one thing that struck me is how many people volunteered that they had seen her over the years. It’s just a reminder that showing up in politics really matters because they they seem to feel like they knew her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:23

    Like, people would be like, I ran into her at the pizza place. So let’s listen to some of these voters talk about Murkowski.
  • Speaker 6
    0:18:29

    She got in by being picked by her father to take his spot, which nepotism never feels good to anyone. So she really had to prove herself and everyone was watching her and watching every boat that she did. And I think she pretty much proved herself kind of as a middle of the rotor, which I really appreciate because the other Republican candidates that are running against Smurkowski either they’ve been a quitter, you know who I’m talking about, or they’re still to the right that they wanna like, stop even having birth control sent in the mail. What about the condoms on the grocery shelves? I mean, give me a freaking break.
  • Speaker 6
    0:19:14

    Why is it always the woman that they wanna lock up and bake her have that baby? That my age has always been
  • Speaker 7
    0:19:23

    a political figure here, so I don’t have very much negative things to say. I mean, she is an African she does. That’s good for Alaska. I did gain respect for her though when she voted differently than what Trump wanted because she actually stood up to the big man. She’s like, nay.
  • Speaker 7
    0:19:40

    I don’t feel like that’s right, and I’m gonna vote that way. I’m not gonna follow the party. So I gained respect for her there. But for me, I respect her as a politician and I think she’s done what she can, what isn’t her capacity to do, and I would vote
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:59

    for her. She seems to be mostly independent she’s disappointing me a couple of times, but not very often. I think she’s more moderate than most of the men that I see anyway. But that they she makes sense. I met her out at the pizza place one time, you know, just and talk to her, and she’s very personable.
  • Speaker 8
    0:20:20

    I’ve talked to her several times, and the vibe that I receive is that she’s very honest. And, you know, that has got her in trouble a few times because she’s blunt. That she would speak her mind. I totally appreciate that, you know, she’s been around for a long time, and she holds her ground, and I appreciate that. And, you know, having a a a strong female representing Alaska in any aspect is good for me.
  • Speaker 8
    0:20:45

    So I really like her. That she’s perfect? No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:50

    But that she’s a bit controversial.
  • Speaker 8
    0:20:52

    Yes. And you have to be to be a politician period. That’s just how it is. So
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:57

    that last woman actually voted for Trump twice. So I do think it it bodes well. And and I will say just overall, I don’t know if you were struck by this, but there were people who were kind of down on Murkowski Somme or have sort of that annoyance of lifelong politician napatism, a bunch of people were talking about, like, oh, her family’s been in politics a long time. But when I like, push came to shove and you’re, like, who are you gonna vote for? Like, the overwhelming majority was saying Murkowski.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:26

    Did that surprise you? Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:28

    I mean, most senators and members of Congress governors would give a lot to have those kinds of comments unprompted, obviously, by voters, including some who might be quite an or to you if you voted to impeach the person they just voted for for president. So it is attributed to how strong she is and why she probably will survive. This reelection. As you said, the only senator up. It’s a couple of retired who voted to impeach, and then the others are are ductile twenty four or twenty six.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:55

    And, of course, in the house, you’ve seen several, either retirements or defeats, with the couple still alive, both actually in these kind of open primaries in California and Washington. Right? And then Cheney is the one in
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:06

    question.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:06

    So she could be one of very, very few, surprising people about if I were to worry of just put on a promo or casket hat and worry for a minute. I’d worry that she’ll make it certainly to the final round, but I guess that’ll be three candidates maybe. Chabacca, the Trump endorsed Republican, a Democrat, and Rykowski. And at that point, you could sort of imagine that could get to a pretty even three way split and you do need to be in second for the rank choice to benefit you. You need to have the votes distributed to you, not from you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:35

    And I I mean, I know you get a nationalized election, fifty fifty percent of possibility. Democrats maybe go back to their Democrat. Right now, she’s getting a ton of democratic votes, I would bet. More, I suspect, than Republican. And then, you know, Trump’s up there and the Republicans are screaming and yelling about how they gotta be loyal to Trump, who’s being persecuted by the FBI, etcetera.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:55

    Some danger that she falls between both stools. If she can just make it a second, basically. She presumably gets the other votes against either the democratic are more likely, I suppose, against Jabakah, the Trump for public. I know you’ve talked to more people than I have about this race, I suspect. What’s your is that their basic sense of it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:11

    I mean, that she ends up in a final against Jabakah and the Democrats having selected her for second choice, then that puts her over the top.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:21

    Howard Bauchner:
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:21

    Yeah, that’s right. There’s a couple different factors. So one is the number of independence that there are in Alaska, just a lot And so right now, like, we’re literally only talking to Republicans and people who who had been Republicans, but like we’re so mad about Trump. So they’re they’re a little bit of a mixed group, but, like, the fact that the Trump voters were even split on Murkowski, I think if you get into independence, she’s already won before on an independent ticket. And so I think that helps her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:52

    I’ve done more than these groups. So we did these two groups, but I’ve done other groups. And actually, I did them much closer to the impeachment vote. And even then in those earlier groups, they were much more mad at her, like much more cutely angry at her at that point, the Republicans, but they knew what committee she sat on. They understood how senior she was, And it was when the lights kinda went on for me that Alaska is one of the most specific states because the idea that usually dominates where people are like, I want somebody new.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:23

    I want fresh voices. And there was a little bit of that in here, but there was like a real hesitancy to give up the seniority that she has and her ability to deliver for Alaska that just isn’t a factor in most of these other states. And then the third thing that I think is really important is the Democrats haven’t really put up anybody that’s getting any traction. It’s not like the Evan McMullen situation in Utah where they actively stood down, but there’s nobody notable. And as a result, it feels like the democrats have kind of quietly said, yeah, we’re not gonna put up anybody serious that would challenge Murkowski.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:00

    Once you get past this round, I’ve got to think g is gonna call us presumably with the Republicans of Mitch McConnell. And if if the first round results suggest that g, I don’t know, maybe the democrats speak ahead of Rikowsky into second place and then get some of the Rikowsky votes as a rank choice and win. That’s possible. It probably isn’t. But if people start getting that in their head, you can imagine an awful lot of national democrats saying, well, to respect Lisa Wirtowski, she’s a nice person.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:25

    And she did vote for impeachment, but she’s ultimately a Mitch McConnell person, not a not a Chuck Schumer person. So it’d be interesting to see how that dynamic works. I’d be interested to watch on Tuesday at just how many votes she gets. She is really the remaining bullwork. I’ve seen priority for Alaska in the United States Congress.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:42

    And I think that that pulls her through. But it will be interesting to see what percentage she gets. We’re talking about or getting to the second row with thirty percent of the votes, which you could say is isn’t so great for an incumbent, but in some multi candidate race. Forty percent, you know, of squeaking into the final round with twenty three percent. I think that’ll be an interesting little snapshot.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:00

    And what percentage of of Democrats are willing to reward someone like Warkowski and not vote for the Democratic candidate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:07

    Yeah. To your point, I mean, pulling out of Alaska was very sketchy. Like, the last I had seen, so the Democrat in third is this guy Pat Cesbro. Mhmm. And we know we were asking the group.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:19

    Like, no one had really heard of him, not branded. These are Republicans, but, like, doesn’t seem to be picking up a ton of name ID in the state. And he was a very distant third in the the last poll that I saw. But let’s play a section. The the group I’m gonna call the Murkowski Me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:34

    The people who are like, yeah, about her. Listen to this group, like, this is why I actually think she’s gonna win. Let’s listen.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:42

    She’s got some seniority. She tends to both the way I would, you know, if I were in Congress. She’s irritated
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:50

    quite a few people in the state, but, you know, I’ll still vote for her. The time that she’s been in is a benefit. That seemed already really helps. What I agreed to, you know, on that batism sucks. She did lose the primary.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:03

    She got voted back in as a right in. Which proves that right in candidates can win elections, but it’s time for new blood, which is things we’ve said before.
  • Speaker 9
    0:27:13

    She’s middle of the road. Yeah. I mean, building in performance and pretty much everything. She’s not bored, buddy, and she’s definitely not great.
  • Speaker 10
    0:27:23

    The one thing that kinda lost a little bit of credibility with me as far as she goes is when she voted to confirm Catanji Brown Jacks, which I know was kind of a hot button topic at the time
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:40

    I
  • Speaker 10
    0:27:40

    mean, obviously, she’s gonna vote how she wants to vote, and that’s fine. I can agree with it or disagree with it, and it just is what it is. But that’s than my thought about it. Otherwise, I don’t have too much of a problem over
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:52

    there. So in that group, two out of the four were definitely gonna vote for her. Like, if they left our house a day, they were gonna vote for her. And I think, like, the even the guy who was, like, talking about new blood, they didn’t know anything about Chobacca. You know?
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:05

    Like, they’re annoyed at Murkowski. They’re annoyed at the diagnostic politicians. You know, she’s been there forever. But, man, it is not like listening to people talk about Cheney where they’re just like rip shit about how much they dislike girl. Like, it’s just much more Oh, I disagreed with her vote on Hitachi Brown Jackson.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:24

    I don’t know. That to me, the level of intensity in their dislike for her just isn’t there. And I think that with the right choice gets her through.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:33

    Sounds right to me. And — Yep. — we’ll we’ll see on I don’t know if we’ll see on two and nightgutmas will actually know the Alaska returns, but probably we’ll have some sense by Wednesday morning. I should think of how it’s going. Maybe Chobaco will be in first place because she has that hardcore Trump support, but is she in a strong second place?
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:49

    Or I’m sure there’ll be a lot of expectation setting and and attempts to shape the narrative afterwards. So I think there’s still a pretty dynamic kind of fluid situation in play between August sixteenth and and November eighth.
  • Speaker 8
    0:29:02

    Yeah. But the
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:03

    the difference here is that Unlike McCarthy and all the Republicans who lined up against Cheney and raised money for her opponent, like McConnell’s gonna back Murkowski. Right? Like — Yeah. — he will support her and that they will spend money in the race for her. And
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:17

    they will have people on camera who they will know that Alaska’s like saying she delivers for Alaska or even have a targeted message to Republicans. Saying, look, Lisa does a great job for you all. You’d be crazy to throw around. Yeah. So I think there’s a yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:30

    There’ll be heavy weights on both sides of heavy weight spending. On both sides, whether the democrats come into play and and how effective they think they could be. That that it goes to all interesting questions.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:41

    Yeah. You know, obviously, Murkowski has lost a Republican primary before. You know, I think she’s always been a little controversial for the hardcore Republicans because she is such a moderate. So let’s listen to the some of the negative comments for the people who are totally out on her.
  • Speaker 11
    0:29:57

    We already talked about term limits. I mean, the woman needs to go up. Her daddy put her in the denim. Then she locked the primary. And somehow they can they go her back into the summit?
  • Speaker 12
    0:30:09

    Yeah. I’m not a huge fan of her. I consider her to be what I say is, like, a Swiss republican. She votes with the democrats time and time again. She voted with the democrats to confirm that’s Jackson.
  • Speaker 12
    0:30:20

    She go to with the Democrats to impeach Donald Trump. She go to with the Democrats to oppose the border wall, which as a Texan, I guess, I’m Alaska now. But as, like, a former Texan, the border wall was a huge, you know, we were on the border of Mexico. We’ve talked about the immigration issues. I think she is not conservative enough and is really, like, borderline republican.
  • Speaker 12
    0:30:42

    But oftentimes, those are the democrats, and I’m ready this year to get out of office. You
  • Speaker 11
    0:30:46

    remember when McCain was running and they were talking about the bridge to nowhere? It was actually a bridge to a Gardena Island in Ketchikan. And it’s also where the New York City had a huge development project. So Frank FERCowski was trying to get federal dollars from the people in the state who pay for goods. After Gravina Island, so that they can develop their project.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:16

    So, you know, the familiarity can also breed contempt. I will say, you know, the first woman that you heard talking there, like, she was a super hardcore drummer. And she made faces through the entire group at anybody who said anything nice about Murkowski. So I guess it didn’t surprise me that she was out on Murkowski. I mean, just that sentiment was absolutely the minority opinion where there was kinda one person in both groups that really were mad at her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:44

    And then in the rest of the case, they were either sort of me or positive. But the democrats were not registering in these groups. I think the final two candidates are likely to be Markowski and Kelly Shabakka. And Shabakka, she worked actually at a bunch of federal agencies before moving back to Alaska. She’s from Alaska but spent a lot of time away.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:04

    She is endorsed by Trump, but she also and I think this might not have been as big a deal before, but she supports criminalizing, mailing the morning after bill. And that was something people like we’re aware of and we’re unhappy about. And and I just wanna say everybody you’re about to hear from are two time Trump voters. Let’s listen.
  • Speaker 13
    0:32:25

    Say out of my SS slide.
  • Speaker 14
    0:32:26

    That’s One, I think the other is when I hear Trump endorsing someone, now it seems like it’s almost like you’re being endorsed because you found there was a voting discrepancy or the voting was rigged or stolen or something. And I’m, like, if that’s the only qualification. I don’t think I’d want that alcatraz on my
  • Speaker 9
    0:32:46

    neck. I like some about her and I dislike some about her. If it’s true, if she’s totally against birth control, condoms, anything else being delivered through the mail, Alaska is, with the exception of agriculture, fairbanks, and bigger cities. Alaska is a rural state you get out to the villages, they’ve got to get everything mailed, shipped, blown in. Like I said, if it’s true because you can only believe so much of the hype that goes on at election time about one candidate.
  • Speaker 9
    0:33:23

    That I don’t like about it.
  • Speaker 8
    0:33:25

    Alaska is a very unique state and you need to be familiar with our issues. I mean, our people, we have a melting pot here in the English. You have every nationality you can think of. And, you know, this is the last frontier. We’re threshold.
  • Speaker 8
    0:33:41

    So you need to be aware of wildlife. I mean, all of that, and and if you’re not from here, I mean, I’m not gonna disrespect her and say, I don’t take her serious, but I would have more respect if she was from here or have been here, you know, a period of
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:57

    time. So, yeah, the idea that she spends much of her career outside of Alaska, like, that bothers people. I mean, it’s always, I guess, a carpet bagger is a real thing. It’s a real dynamic. But, like, in the Pennsylvania senate race where Federman is just, like, crushing Oz over being from New Jersey in Wyoming.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:17

    They’re not even talking about Liz being on the Jan sixth committee. Like, the campaign that Hageman’s running is that she’s a carpet bagger who doesn’t share Wyoming’s values. And here, where it seems like Murkowski is able to at least define Chabacca a little bit as an outsider whose only qualification is that she’s got Trump’s endorsement. But the thing that interested me so much was the abortion issue where it went from being never mentioned to now it comes up and it comes up organically, especially among women. I think it’s not an accident that all of the people who were hardcore endorsers of Murkowski were women.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:52

    But to me, I think that is a renewed liability for Shabakha. The idea that she doesn’t think people should get the morning after pill through the mail. Now it’s not true about condoms, but the Plan B thing seems to be breaking through with people and seems like it could really hurt tobacco in this new environment. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:11

    It sounds that way to me. And and Alaska’s always been a somewhat socially libertarian state or more that way than you’d think of a typical Republican state being. And so I think it helps Macalsky even more, which is for life, which is for all kinds of exceptions. And probably not even I don’t know that she signed on to the notion, probably hasn’t that there should be federal legislation. Let each day work it out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:31

    That’s acceptable to a broad range of voters. I’ve always thought from the beginning beforehand, I remember debating this with full life friends and acquaintances. I mean, oh, this is gonna lance the boil, go back States. It’s not gonna be an issue. It never has been.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:44

    Never remember saying, I don’t know. These things are unpredictable. And my instinct at the time, and I think I was right on this one for a change. I mean, is it? This had all kinds of ramifications because it’s not just that you can just say, well, I like the decision.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:56

    I don’t like the decision and said, okay. What do you for? Like, for a federal law? What kind of federal law? If you’re a state official, if you’re running for governor?
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:02

    What exceptions are you willing to have? What about things that some parts of the Aflac will aggressively move towards ranging from travel to day after pill and so forth and banning those and how strict is a health exception and then you get these terrible stories about women, you know, with nonviable fetuses and so forth. And if you can put it in risk because the doctors now are nervous that they can’t perform the necessary operations. I’ve always thought this issue had much more potential to to disrupt this election than I think a lot of other people did certainly on the right or hoping it wouldn’t disrupt what they thought was going to be a big red wave. I was always dubious about the red wave and kept pointing to the generic Congressional ballot, which was sort of plus two and a half, plus three Republican when Biden was minus fifteen and saying there’s some decoupling going on.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:45

    It’s gotten much more radical now and ballots now even Biden’s picked up a tad, but it seems like the congressional races now. And so many of the governor’s races. Don’t you think have their own momentum in which abortion is a real issue? I mean, in states like Michigan, it really is true that it will matter who you vote for for governor In terms of what your abortion laws will be, where you have a Republican legislature that says at least that it wants to pass quite strict abortion restrictions with Wisconsin has one on the books. The Democratic governor is against and says veto veto any attempt to keep it alive and so forth.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:17

    So, I mean, it’s a real issue, especially for governors, but to some degree for federal offices as well. It’s a it’s a live issue. It’s not just a symbolic vote, or you pro life or pro choice. We’ll see how much that broadcast can convey that to bear. In Alaska, but I’ve got to think during Alaska, you’ll see you’ll know about her position on putting the day after pill in the mail.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:37

    A LOT OF ALASKANS WILL KNOW THAT THAT THAT TRUVAC IS POSITIONED BY BY NOVA BREATH.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:42

    YOU’RE BEING A JUDELMENT BY NOT DIRECTLY SAYING, SIRI, YOU WERE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD SOME SKEP statism about whether or not abortion would really shake up the political dynamic because I was skeptical. And and I think part of the reason one is just how big in the groups the economy looms. And so I think that I I was like, yeah. But, like, will it as an issue, like, literally changed the trajectory away from what was previously, it’s been improving somewhat. Just like I’ve really intensely bad feelings about the economy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:16

    So I was skeptical about that, but I think one of the things I didn’t count on, this is why being in the political prognosticating business is so hard. Is, you know, I always thought that it could be an issue of Democrats really prosecuted the case of extremism against Republicans,
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:30

    but
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:30

    I didn’t know how much Republicans were gonna help them on frontage. I mean, watching Republicans because it’s just sort of so politically stupid. So watching them, like, literally, I’ll talk about, like, yes, we knew on a federal ban. Or this example of the morning after pill. It’s not even about abortion.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:47

    Right? Now you’re telling women that they can’t get something in the mail that presumably in Alaska were lay or far flung as the woman said, you can get it in the mail. And rural health care is a big issue and a big deal in places like Alaska. And so I think that you were right. And and just listening to the way it comes up now, there was a woman in the first group.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:07

    I mean, it was like the first thing out of her mouth. And more and more, we’re hearing that, where where people sort of volunteer it as an issue that is top of mind. And so it may be that the economy is like still the number one issue that people talk about, but the intensity with which people are feeling this issue is pretty serious. And I think that being against, you know, mailing plan b is gonna become a a really big liability for Chihuahua.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:34

    In general, I’d also say, look for now, I think it’s it’s effective. It’s still a long way till the general election and could subside. People could get reassured. Kevin McCarthy could announce or McConnell could announce. They’re not gonna bring up federal legislation.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:46

    So suddenly your votes for senate and for member of the House become less abortion related presumably if you really believe that they’re not gonna do anything in Washington. Some of the gubernatorial candidates could succeed in backing off or state legislative candidates. So for now, I think it is having a real effect. This is still pretty fresh in people’s minds. Debates or or have just begun and some of these things that could be subsiding by October.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:08

    Other issues could emerge. So it could be a bear market rally for the for the Democrats, for the House, so to speak. With this issue contributing, but it it doesn’t mean it necessarily will be quite as front of center. In November, I fight to bed, I would say it will be, but it might not be.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:22

    Yeah. But again, I would just say the idea if you’re in Alaska of, like, limiting anything that you’re supposed to get in the mail that seems like a normal thing that you should be able to get. My guess is that that freaks people out because that is their sort of their line to how they get everything they need. Well,
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:37

    if it’s into the narrative suit, she doesn’t know Alaska. Right? If you
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:40

    were
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:40

    a real Alaska, you would know that everyone gets everything in the mail outside of Fairfax and Anchorage, but she’s been in Washington so long that she’s sort of assumes you just go to the CVS on the corner of the fourteenth Street and P or something like that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:51

    Right. So so now that I’ve I’ve congratulated you for being correct about something. Let’s talk about, for dessert, something that you may or may not have been correct about. We’ll we’ll see how you feel about it. But sarah palin currently running for Congress thirteen years after resigning from the governorship.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:08

    And, you know, back in two thousand eight before you and I knew each other, Janeear wrote the New Yorker about how you were one of Helen’s most ardent promoters before she was selected for VP. You also called her your Rob. Is that true? I didn’t know that. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:21

    didn’t see that. I didn’t remember that. But, you know, I already just not always translate or not I already. It was, like, semi serious, you know. A quarter serious, an eight serious, I who remembers who remembers.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:32

    Before you offer any stories and or apologies, let’s listen to how our focus groups are feeling about Sarah Palin now.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:40

    I actually know Sarah. She’s crazy as a loom. I agree if she’s a quitter. She’s a terrible candidate, and I really hope she does not get elected on a name recognition alone.
  • Speaker 9
    0:41:52

    I like her as a person. She’s friendly, she’s fine for those who have we personally matter. But yeah. I mean, that sticks in everybody’s craw that she quit. She doesn’t have bad views, but if she doesn’t have the want to stick to it, then that’s not a good thing.
  • Speaker 9
    0:42:10

    Yeah. Again, I like her as a person. I joked with her, helped her in several days.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:16

    I know, Katelyn, and I what ordered for her, but I wouldn’t anymore. I think she quit on Alaska, and I’m just not interested. Too much baggage. Work
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:28

    we made the laughing stock of the country on some of the Yes. Yes. Plus your heart. I don’t dislike, sir. But we once again, we’re looking for somebody on another level.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:42

    I was a little surprised. I mean, there was, like, only a couple of pavement takers in these groups, and they were, like, the hardcore trumpeters. Were you surprised that your your heartthrob wasn’t getting much love from this group?
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:55

    Yeah. Not that much. The quitting was just I mean, people do not. Accept that. I mean, it’s like if you quit for some other, like, a huge job or, I mean, or maybe if you’re a member of Congress and you quit to become a Fox News.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:06

    I was such a couple, I guess, it did at times. You know, Gary, so you remember where Congress says you vote for some other person from the same party and he or she votes the same way as the person you vote for. She was governor of Alaska. And she was actually a pretty dramatic choice when she won the governorship. And the reason people like me were open to the idea of her as McCain’s VP is that she was a very popular governor in two thousand and eight when we came made the choice partly popular because ironically, she was kind of populist, but in a sort of good way.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:31

    I mean, she took on the oil companies she had democratic support in state legislature for some of her key legislative bills, I think, especially this one taking on energy. And so she was a little bit of a sort of bipartisan, fresh faced, different populist types. She turned out to be not up to it, period. I mean, that was just a matter of hoping that she would turn out to be more substantive and more impressive than she was. But the campaign didn’t help her, the general action campaign, obviously, where she didn’t do great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:57

    Funny, I if you go back and look at the debate with Biden, in the campaign of the general election. She held her own more or less, actually. I had been sleeping room at first. It wasn’t gonna be sleeping room. I thought vacation said a longwall.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:07

    And take bail and he did probably a stake. And I and I apologize for that, I guess, as far as I played a tiny role. But, yeah, the quitting, I think, really damaged her up there. For the rest of the country, it was like, I don’t know if she quit. She’s gonna do some other stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:19

    But you elect her as governor. You go through the campaign that’s a matter of ridicule you absorb in a sense because she’s your governor and now she’s being fairly or unfairly, you know, maybe fairly turned out for trade as sort of not enough to National Office, and then she just quits on you. I think that that’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:34

    stuck.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:34

    On the other hand, I don’t know you followed her a little more closely, and I had a wish of certain she’s not gonna win on Tuesday.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:40

    No. I’m not certain. I’m not. I am less certain though after listening to these groups. I actually assumed for the the reason that the gentleman suggested that on name recognition alone, she would just have a big edge.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:53

    That being said, I had sort forgotten about the quitting until literally every person talked about it in the groups. You’re right to emphasize that they all called her a quitter. And other people were talking just about how she she became like a reality star and like became kind of just like a celebrity. And so she’s a nationalized political figure, which they just do not seem super into down there. I think sounded like they found her embarrassing and
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:20

    I mean, the quitting just I mean, I remember at the time, like, I still was vaguely loyal and certainly loyal to the became payable ticket, and therefore, vaguely loyal to the Palen. In I think it was maybe summer, June or so of two thousand nine, which you quit. And I remember, like, as I say, trying to defend it for, like, a day and then realizing, this is you can’t defend this. I mean, she doesn’t want to serve a second term fine. Just to announce, you’re not gonna run for reelection in twenty ten.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:42

    You
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:42

    think
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:42

    you’ve done a good job, but you have other opportunities and, you know, whatever you a lot of good successes to quit, to quit two and a half years into your term when you’re in perfectly good health and there’s no reason to. I mean, I almost can’t literally think of another case of this. And American politics, you know. Yeah. So unless you’re going to be to the cabinet or something or is there some real reason you have to You’re right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:04

    I was struck listening to the focus group, how much that stuck in people’s crop, which was a slap in the face to the state, I think, as well as a reflection under a character. According to those voters.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:15

    Yeah. Just while we’re talking about Sarah Palin, because I get such vivid memories, you talk about her debate with Biden and her holding her own, I actually have, like, burned into my brain the first speech she gave because I remember being very interested in her she’s been like a basketball player. There’s lots of like hometown stories that people were telling about her where she sounded pretty interesting. And I had never heard of her. And I remember the big stage.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:41

    And I remember her walking across it. And I have this, like, thing where I have total stress for any woman walking across, like, a very buffed floor and heels. Like, I just like, I am, like, tens for them, and I just, like, want them to be okay walking. Like, I remember and I remember she had this, like, long walk to the the lectern. She’s gonna give a speech by herself.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:01

    Kinda introduce herself to the country, and it’s where she did the the hockey mom thing. And it was just getting just wild cheers from the crowd. I remember liking her a great deal. Based on that one speech, like, just thinking, like, wow. This is cool.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:16

    And also just like having a woman, it was just I hadn’t seen it. It hadn’t been there for my lifetime. It was exciting. Like, I think that the original theory of the case. And I I guess I wonder.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:26

    And maybe you could tell me, the person that we see now, she sort of strikes me like maybe she wasn’t always like this. And that at the time when she was governor and still sort of striving to be like a good responsible person Like, was she always the loom that they’re talking about? Is she always the crazy person we see today? Or did the celebrity and the shock of the national spotlight. Change her or do you think she was like this?
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:56

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:56

    mean, some of both, I guess. I just do things. I was in the convention in in the room when she spoke. Matt Sculley, who was her main speech writer for that speech is someone who would work for me. Many years before were there in Quail, and so I had to drink with him late the night before, and he said, he’ll be a good speech.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:10

    He’ll come through. And and and Obama just had his convention and done very huge drama, you know, and play and the Corinthians columns and all that stuff. And we were desperate for McCain to have some shot in the arm. And it was terrific. I mean, at the moment, it was terrific.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:25

    I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge that a, she wasn’t up to it ultimately and b, even later in the campaign or even a week or two later, it started to go south. But that moment was pretty memorable and certainly to be in the hall and and the excitement that McCain had trouble generating during the primaries and after the primaries before the convention was there. And my impression, I I had met her only only twice before she was nominated once on a cruise, a weekly set of cruise to Alaska where she heard we were coming. And, shrewdly, I would say, as a, you know, a politician invited a few of us over to lunch and the governor’s residence. Where she was very charming.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:57

    One or two of the little kids were running around under Will. It was a very casual talk. Unlike a lot of politicians, she didn’t try to give us up speech about what she was trying to do in terms of policy. Maybe that the way is a weakness you could say in retrospect, but a lot of family talk and what it’s what’s it like up here? What does she recommend we do for the day or two we still had in Alaska and that sort of thing?
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:18

    And I remember thinking, you know, she’s obviously young and relatively inexperienced, but I think for it as VP at this point, this is the sum of two thousand and seven, but this is a real possible possible star on the potentially in the national stage. We’ll ask him so far away. It’s it’s hard to get from there to the national stage. But I thought, if anyone could, this unusual woman, you know, seemed like at a good way, populist. And I will say governor could become a star.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:43

    I think the weaknesses were probably there if I had spent more time and if I did if I wanted to look harder and being more skeptical and my usual drawn to die, but I probably was a little bit of wishful thinking there on on my
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:54

    part. Yeah. I remember I was I can’t remember where I was, but I was at some conservative dinner. And it just so happened that I was sitting at the table with her husband, Todd, who I believe is now her ex husband. And so at some point, Sarah Palin came over and and said, hi, and she and I it up and took a picture together.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:14

    And it ended up on the front page of the Washington Post. You know who else is it? It is Tim. It’s me and Tim Miller. And, like, one other person, and we’re all in this, like, you know, our arms around Sarah Fallon.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:25

    And it’s just
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:26

    I haven’t seen that picture. I was done. I’ve
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:28

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:28

    don’t know. I’ve got it somewhere. Behind you when you’re on national television and, you know, giving a thing interview. When you’re chatting with Chris A’s or, you know, or to Colas or something, I don’t know. That’s I I look forward seeing them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:43

    You and Tim Boat. Wow. Best selling author, Tim Boat. Right? That’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:46

    right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:47

    Fantastic.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:48

    Well, I appreciate you indulging the little Sarah Palin talk. Bill Crystal, thank you for joining me on the Focus Group podcast, and thanks to all of you for listening here another week. We got some really good episodes coming up as we roll through primaries and soon we’re gonna get to the general election. So we will be back next week and do this all over again. Bye bye.
Want to listen without ads? Join Bulwark+ for an exclusive ad-free version of The Focus Group. Learn more here. Already a Bulwark+ member? Access the premium version here.