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Tulsi. Vance. And Yes, Kanye.

October 12, 2022
Notes
Transcript

JVL, Sarah, and Tim talk Tulsi Gabbard’s departure from the Democratic Party, Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s racist rally comments, and judge Rep. Tim Ryan’s debate performance against JD Vance. Plus, Tim goes off on Sen. Ben Sasse for resigning from Congress.

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This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:06

    Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m JBL welcome to the show guys. If you’re new here, go ahead and subscribe. Hit the subscribe button, hit the like button, and come over to the bulwark dot com and sign up for all the awesome stuff we do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:20

    Every day, we give away free podcasts and newsletters and we publish stories on the website without annoying ads in them. You should go and get him with the bulwark. Come get Charlie Sykes’ newsletter every morning and my newsletter in the afternoon sometimes unless you decide to call me up and be a paying customer. And read all the great stories that Tim writes, my best friend, Tim Miller, right here, and the amazing stories that Sarah Longwell writes, but you’ll have to go to the Atlantic. For those.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:46

    So go to the atlantic dot com for Sarah’s stories and come to the board dot com for my stories and the board dot com and sometimes the New York Times dot com for Tim stories. Thank you, guys. It’s I’m so happy to be here
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:59

    with you guys. This is so nice. I’ve
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:01

    literally been pieced together as inbox.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:06

    That’s my kid because I love. Mhmm. Alright. So listen, I wanna talk very quickly. We don’t have to spend a ton of time about it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:14

    Now Tommy Tuberville, who had a rally in the great state of Nevada, Nevada Nevada Nevada. Tuberville? Tuberville. Tuberville. It came
  • Speaker 4
    0:01:27

    out for channel at JBL. I mean,
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:30

    basically, the only thing missing was the n word. Like, this is not as as our our colleague Ted Johnson is gonna write a piece about this said. Like, this wasn’t a dog whistle. It was basically a rebel yell. And talked about how, you know, the democrats aren’t soft on crime.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:48

    They’re pro crime because they want those people that they think are owed reparations to come and take your things from you. And The thing that brought me up short about this was the crowd reaction because the pop the pop that he got off of this was, as as I said, my newsletter is as if skinner had come out on stage and said, we’re doing free bird. We’re doing free bird. And the people went crazy for
  • Speaker 5
    0:02:15

    it. I
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:15

    think if this had happened at the American Enterprise Institute, if the senator the the the junior senator from the state of Alabama had said something like that at AEI. They might have sort of looked down or looked away or tended. You know, they had missed that thing. But over the the great people who show up at political rallies in Nevada, Nevada. They went crazy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:40

    It was this huge applause line. Sarah, tell me about this. What does what does this make you feel like?
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:48

    Here’s my question. Was it a lake rally or a master’s rally?
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:52

    Was it Nevada? So it’s a wax salt, I believe. Host. Sorry. Sorry.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:57

    Was it lax salt or Lumbaro? Yeah. Sorry. Wrong state. I I I don’t know that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:01

    I just saw the Save America thing, and I believe it was a lax salt rally. But I I could be wrong. Sebastian, you can fax check me if you if you have the Google machine open. Oh,
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:09

    I was just checking to see who it was that didn’t put out a statement saying that they disavowed the remarks from their colleague who was rallying for them. Yeah, I mean, I actually am pretty surprised. Like, that it’s like very blatant. I’m surprised.
  • Speaker 5
    0:03:24

    I know what
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:24

    you guys are gonna say. You’re gonna mock me if I say I’m surprised. That, like, nobody said anything because, of course, nobody says anything about Walker, like, nobody said anything about anything. But he said, those people they said that want rep that they think we should give reparations to are the ones committing all the crime. I think we cracked his code.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:45

    Right? Like, I think it’s clear. I think, you know, you know, I it just I’m pretty sure it’s black people. There’s no thinly veiled So I don’t know. I I mean, I guess, I don’t know.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:58

    Trump said Mexicans are rapists and thieves and said Muslims couldn’t come into the country. So, like, I guess, this is where we are now. And this is this is, like, no, and no Republicans are gonna say anything about it. What should we what
  • Speaker 5
    0:04:10

    What do
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:10

    you want me to say? Tim? Well,
  • Speaker 5
    0:04:13

    this is
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:13

    where we are now. That’s why I
  • Speaker 5
    0:04:14

    yeah. I mean,
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:15

    this is that’s absolutely what we are now. I you would think I I it does make me feel bad before I get into the mocking side of it for, like, all of his players. You know, Tommy Tuberville, This was a football coach. I thought that too. Like,
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:29

    he must this is a guy who knows a lot of black people. Right? Did he coach
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:32

    any African American kids? And
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:34

    thinking about it, speaking of thieves, a host of players that worked for him got paid nothing, actually. Speaking of reparations and thieves, while he made multi, multi millions of dollars as a head football coach, front of the NCAA cartel. So I’m sure he cared about their education. Yeah. Very deeply.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:50

    Yeah. He cared very deeply about their, you know, making sure they you were educated. I’m sure you, you know, help them get you out of fucking bullshit. So yeah. I mean, there definitely was a thief in thief in that situation.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:00

    I I don’t the the crowd reaction though, JB, I think is is really where you where hit on it. And and that comes back to this element of the bottom up and what is want it. Right? And why Trump rose to the top originally and what the appeal was, like, you know, it was a very trumpian kind of line. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:18

    Where it’s well, while it is a rebel yell, there was it’s like just enough to, you know, friend be like, oh, I wasn’t what he mean. It’s only the liberal liberal media. It says it was about black people. Right? I mean, he didn’t act say the n word didn’t actually Was it?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:33

    Say that. Right? And so this was Trump’s game. Right? It was the same game that Trump always used to play.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:37

    It was very obvious to anybody. Who’s paying attention. It’s obvious to the crowd, but then you get called out on it. And it’s like, well, I don’t know, you know, I don’t know. But but this has so I was in Arizona last week, which day we get this mixed up, Sarah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:47

    And that by the way, that was a rally for both blacks and Lombardo. Lombardo is one of the good Republicans. Well,
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:53

    that’s that’s what I was gonna ask. That’s what I because Lombardo is supposed to be mister Normie.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:57

    Yeah. The but I was in Arizona and at this at this lake, masters of that. And and it’s similar. Right? Like, the crowd reactions are very telling, you know, what what the folks there want.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:10

    And and, like, the biggest re yeah, scream at the event that I was at was when Cary Lake said that that we gotta put that old dad and it’s McConnell out to pasture. They were not,
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:20

    which I wrote about night Mixed metaphor. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:23

    I don’t know. Maybe she didn’t say pasture. She did say old dad. We gotta get rid of that old dad, Mitch McConnell. And but forgive me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:31

    She’s running for which office? Governor. Governor. Yeah. Oh.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:35

    The governor is
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:36

    And so the governor of Arizona has some power over what the senate minority or majority leader would like that. Well, she okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:42

    She’s got a lot of she’s she thinks she’s gonna have a lot of powers. You know, there was the screen which I wrote about in in my cruise article yesterday for the bulwark about, you know, how someone in the crowd is screaming out two thousand mules, two and then said cruise, like, nonsensical goes, like, yeah, text two thousand mules, and everybody’s like, I set it. He set it at two thousand mules. Right? And and so, like, this is the material that is that is firing up firing at the crowd and it goes to, you know, just sort of this fundamental discussion of where, you know, the wasted fruit is and the party and, you know, it’s gonna time to the other things for we’re talking about.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:22

    So I I I wanted to smush together here that Tulsi Gabbard Aloha a very sensitive soul from from the great state of Hawaii — Bureau of Aloha. — she looked at this party this weekend with with Tommy Dilberville and the the, you know, the stuff about black people and said, you know what? That’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:45

    where I
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:45

    wanna be. And so she has left the Democratic Party and is is over, I guess, formally or semi formally going to align her self with the Tommy Dapper Bills and Carrie Lakes in the world.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:57

    Interestingly, in that thread talks about the the Democrats anti white races. As one of the reasons.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:04

    Yeah. And and I’m sure she’s very broken up about that. But but, you know, I I think in fairness to her, Tolsey is probably not motivated to to switch parties because of the Tommy Timberville part of the coalition. I mean, she’s probably more interested in Elon Musk part of the coalition, which is sucking up to Putin. Is that fair?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:28

    Because this is now Literally, this is the right this is the Republican voting coalition, racists, authoritarians, and Kuten lovers slash apologists. And that’s the new fusionism. Did you
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:43

    guys see that Victor Orban tweeted like, he tweeted, he he got a Twitter handle and tweeted his first tweet to say, where is my friend Donald Trump? With an emoji, or like a clip of John Travolta in pulp fiction, you know, like looking around, like, you’ve seen that Jeff wears, like, And there’s just something about that that’s so wild like it’s just an authoritarian asking why are authoritarians not allowed on Twitter, and, like, that’s just like a joke and a meme. And this is why nothing matters. Like, the racism, remember when Donald Trump said that Corey Bush and AOC, and they should all go back to where they came from. Like, like, like, this is this is why I think we should be shocked and harsh side by this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:31

    There is no doubt in what he’s saying,
  • Speaker 5
    0:09:35

    but
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:36

    it’s also been a feature now. And I think that Kelsey Gabbard I actually thought what you were gonna say, you you said you said she was, like, coming for the Elon Musk presidential. I thought you were gonna say, she’s coming for the voters.
  • Speaker 5
    0:09:47

    Because,
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:47

    like, this is where she can find a real support Right? Like, this is where she can bask in the love of an audience that is here for her particular brand of nonsense. Which is basically Tucker Carlson’s audience. And
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:02

    that’s Well, she’s coming for Glen Greenwald funny. I mean, that’s that’s what it is. Right? She’s looking at Glen Greenwald and saying, oh, Young. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:10

    But
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:10

    as best I can tell, there is endless boomer cash. For these, like, former Democrats who are willing to, you know, say that they obviously disavow the credit party for all of the reasons. The anti white racism. Right. And but here’s the thing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:26

    Right? So, like, this is so we, I think, on this particular podcast, look at the democrats and think, yeah, so Tulsi Gabbard wants to be in the Republican Party because they’ve lost their minds. The democrats seem to be behaving responsibly by backing Ukraine, they now seem like a slightly better coalition for people like us. And this is the this is a great sort that is happening. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:49

    Like, Liz Cheney wants to be on the pro democracy side now, which is why she has endorsed a number of Democratic candidates. And is opposing a bunch of Republican candidates. And Telsie Gabbard is like, no, no, no, my home is with Tucker and his audience. Those are my people. Because they love Assad, like, I love Assad.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:06

    They love dictators and Putin. Like, I love dictators and Putin. And that’s the thing we’re witnessing in real time.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:12

    It’s literal anti americanism. This is I’m this is, you know, to to go way back to the before times. One of the things that conservatives used to say is there was a jean curve Patrick line about this. Right? You know, these people, why do they hate America?
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:25

    You know, the the left is just anti America. This was like a big applause line on on the right. And now that’s real, but it’s flipped around the other side. And what it is is you have a whole bunch of conservatives who just hate America. They are on the side of Victor Orban and not Joe Biden.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:43

    They are on the side of Vladimir Putin and not the American military. Oh, we’re so innocent because we’re so innocent. What they hate is the idea of what America is now. They don’t like America as it is. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:54

    They are they are against it. Not
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:57

    into it. Yeah. And this is what ties this the Tuberville and Tulsi and the Elon thing together. Right? It’s just it’s really this banal kind of resentment of the American elites.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:10

    Right? I and that’s it’s really as simple as that. Like, Tulsi does not like that she did not get the love, that she felt like she deserved. On the Democratic debate stage and that she does get it from Tucker. And she doesn’t like like what you know, the the, you know, cultural elites in America are pushing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:30

    And and so she doesn’t like the narrative that, you know, I’m I’m not my party this week is about Kanye, about how contrarianism gone wrong. She has, like, the narrative about the Ukraine Ukraine war. Right? You can’t be on the side of the obvious freedom loving people who are being invaded. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:45

    There’s gotta be some false flag happening. There’s gotta be some three d chest happening. And that’s the same thing as Tauperville. Right? Like, it is tied into this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:54

    Right? The elites are going, oh, we need to be concerned about racism. Right? So, you know, they’re they’re flirting with reparations. So now I can I I I need to be able to talk about the anti PC reality of the fact that it’s the criminals that want reparations.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:08

    Right? I get the anti conventional wisdom, anti PC, contrarianism is what really unites these folks. Like, when you said it’s fusionism that implies that, like, there is this deep, you know, isolationists, racist, ideological bent, and psycholibertarians and the social conservatives coming together. You know, to work together in a coalition. It’s not that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:30

    Right? As all of these people that, like, their whole ideology
  • Speaker 4
    0:13:33

    is that you know, whatever the the media conventional wisdom is is wrong, and it’s bad, and I’m gonna and I’m gonna go the other way. And, you know, I can
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:43

    understand that honestly, for a certain segment of America. Right? If you are
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:47

    For eighteen year old school. Small boys schools.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:50

    Yeah. Or, you know, you’ve been left behind by globalization. Or, you know, you’re in an industry which has been answered. What I don’t get is, like, the country club Republicans who’ve decided to come along with this. Because for them, I don’t think there is any excuse, accept racism.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:06

    Right?
  • Speaker 5
    0:14:07

    That’s all the
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:07

    explanation is based. I
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:08

    actually think that’s not right. No. No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:10

    Okay. So tell me tell me what it is. If you are, like, you know, a Republican doctor at the country club who buys into all of this and loves Tommy Robertville. Why are you there? Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:19

    Because you’re a winner. Right? You you have won the economic and cultural lottery. Right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:24

    But you wanna stay there and you also so the this is the this is the this is the myth of right wing populism. Right? The right wing populism has a leader that acts like like the desk camisados, the shirtless ones of Juan Perron. Right? They talk to workers like they’re on their side, but they feather bed, they’re rich friends, they I mean, what did WAS TRUMP’S SIGNATURE ACCOMPLISHMENT FOR ALL OF HIS POPULOUS TALK, FOR ALL OF HIS HE KIDACUT?
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:47

    IT WAS THE TAX CUT. IT WAS LIKE THAT. THIS IS WHAT Republicans are, therefore, they don’t think this is when everybody talks about being in on the joke. Right? It’s like, yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:57

    Like Tucker’s a sideshow it’s not real. If you even if you talk to Tucker’s producers, I guarantee you they would be like, this is all like a it’s just a joke. It’s like a big joke. And that’s where they’re literally not seriously things contained. And Tucker
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:10

    is looking watching Kanye. I I had to watch this the interview this morning. And, like, he he can’t even contain his own like, incredulous incredulousity. Like, looking at them. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:21

    Like, for your entire producer’s, Tucker kid. Tucker’s like, Mhmm. It’s like Kanye is going on about farms. He’s like, factory farms and big pharma and, like, little farms and big pharma. And I know how to disrupt that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:35

    And and the extent he goes on, he does, and it’s doctor just has to be like. Yeah. That’s not he’s saying what they won’t let you say. You know, it’s all bullshit. We
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:44

    also just have a quick sidebar about Kanye. Who I like, this weird thing with the Kanye stuff. Kanye’s anti Semitic rant. This is a weird thing because the Republicans have been, and I am all the anti Antis that I follow on Twitter, they follow where the antisemitism is. They and they will they will snuff it out, right, and call it out everywhere.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:09

    I have seen so little so little condemnation of Kanye. What I don’t even I honestly didn’t even understand what he was saying, but, like,
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:19

    We went after the Kushner brothers and said that they only care about money. So that’s pretty subtle. And he said
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:24

    they were holding Trump back because and they were trying to be his puppet master because they only cared
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:29

    for The desk on three Jews. Yeah. And
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:31

    then and then he tweeted it or then he texted and and screenshot the text to his friend. Diddy and said to him that he didn’t he’s realized
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:39

    he’s been controlled by the Jews. And then he got some pushback about that, and then later he tweeted that he’s gonna go deaf death con three on the Jewish people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:48

    Just, you know, in
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:50

    his defense, I would be shocked if he did not understand the Deathcon is not the real Of course, he did it. Deathcon. I I I would I would bet anything that I own that he has always believed that, you know, the DevCon scale was actually the DevCon scale. Okay. So good.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:09

    We got to hit all of those points. So what did you call it? See, I did it for you. I did it for you there. Yeah.
  • Speaker 5
    0:17:16

    You guys don’t
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:16

    have a reaction to the Kanye anti Semitism. Why isn’t this like a career under? Career under
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:22

    a who? No. No. No. I and this is what my not my party is about.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:25

    I
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:26

    don’t understand the question? The the that that phrase is obsolete, Sarah. There is no such thing as a career under anymore. Mhmm. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:33

    You just have to switch careers. This is what Tolsey And by the way, is Tolsey’s defection going to take all of the tankies over the Republican Party with her?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:43

    Yeah. This was inevitable.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:43

    Like, are the are the tankies of the met Taipei’s of the world finally. They just
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:47

    freeze already, basically, a Republican. They’re all I’m into Trump. Yeah. That’s part of this realignment. I mean, that’s This is again and also a global thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:54

    Right? Like, it’s happening with with the greenwald in Brazil and diabetes. Right? Like, this is all part like, weird globalists Right? And as globalists who care about, you know, trivial little things like democracy and making sure that the Jewish people are are protected, you know, that is now a group of people that is moving into the Democratic coalition because they actually you know, want to do something and help the help the Ukrainians.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:20

    And of course, the tankies are moving into the Republican coalition. And and eventually, You know, the remaining anti Antis that you’re talking about, Sarah, NeoCon’s are either just gonna have to accept the fact that they’re in a coalition with the anti Semitic isolationist tankies or, you know, the Stalinists. The actual Stalin has done or tuck their tail and join us in in moving and departing a a part of a broader pro democracy coalition. But I I mean, that this is a big reason
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:50

    why about anybody like to bet a cookie. Which way they
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:53

    go? Exactly. And this is why, by the way, Tara, they are always tweeting about this because they have to obsess over Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, and and whatever lefty, crazy celebrity. I don’t I don’t wanna start naming names. I don’t know which crazy lefty celebrity lately.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:08

    It’s that anti Semitic stuff. Like, that’s why they have to obsess about that too. And those are all bad,
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:12

    by the way. Right. They are all bad.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:13

    Yeah. They are, but I mentioned Elon in my episode this week. But, like, But but they have to obsess about that because it it allows them to continue to rationalize the fact that they are
  • Speaker 4
    0:19:23

    in the in the isolationist tanky coalition now. Okay.
  • Speaker 5
    0:19:27

    Jamie, I’ll
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:27

    do one little one last thing. Okay. Just dance. I’m trying to
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:30

    move on to your subject, Sarah. I know. I
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:32

    know. But Ben Shapiro is one of the people who, like, wants to call out anti Semitism where he finds it, but he dispatched, you know, Candice Owens, who works at the Daily Wire, who by the way, the fact that Ben Shapiro remains sort like, has mainstream credibility while he has Candice Owens just, like, on staff without like, everybody just lets that happen. Here’s what she said about Kanye’s remarks. If you were an honest person, you did not think this tweet was anti Semitic. I’m saying.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:57

    K? You did not think that he wrote this tweet because he hates wants to genocide Jewish people, this is not the beginning of a Holocaust. Well, I’m glad that Kanye is not starting a Holocaust to
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:09

    genocide. But I don’t think the definitive form of genocide. I I am
  • Speaker 6
    0:20:13

    an
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:13

    honest person. I don’t think that Kanye wants to genocide the Jewish people necessarily, but still a a rule of threes, you know. It’s I think I think it’s pretty clear what he is doing. But yeah. No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:24

    Candice is fine. She’s platformed by by And and ladies and gentlemen, Candice
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:29

    Owens, your twenty forty Republican presidential nominee. Twenty forty, twenty
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:33

    twenty eight, Sarah, and your focus groups Who gets mentioned more in your focus groups as a possible twenty twenty four candidate after Trump and DeSantis between Candice, O n’s, Mike pens and teg cruz. Light pens or Canvas Owens? I said
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:46

    Canvas Owens, not even close. Yeah. It’s not
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:48

    even close. She gets mad though. I I just noticed because I watched one of them with the FDA, overdrawn in June. You asked that question. She got mentioned out of the blip.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:54

    It wasn’t like you’re prompting people. No. And the worst part is
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:56

    if if somebody does mention her, the other people in the group go, oh, yeah. She’d be great. That.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:01

    And wouldn’t she? Though. Alright. So, Sarah, on Monday night, your boy toy Tim Ryan had his first and only showdown with JD Vance. And how do you think it went?
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:15

    Would you like to start with the the homicide?
  • Speaker 5
    0:21:18

    Or do you
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:19

    wanna work that in as we go? Yeah. So I
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:22

    Jim has a piece. Our colleague, Jim Swift, has a piece in which he gives Ryan kind of like a middling grade because, you know, Vance, I think over performed expectations. Because he’s running such a garbage campaign. And so he kinda showed up to play and, like, there was a lot of back and forth. But I do think in our social media world, like, you do have to judge it by the follow on the next day, and the fact that that clip of Tim Ryan just like cooking JD Vance with the ask kisser remark that Donald Trump We’re trying Trump, what, you know, said, you know, this guy he’s holding a rally four j d Vance, which, by the way, this is on the heels of him calling him JP Mandel at a different rally.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:06

    And so he says, this guy’s calling me up, kissing my ass, whatever. So he total. And so he, like, emasculates him in front of the crowd and then, you know, calls JD Vance back up at some point and he has to, like, pretend, like, oh, yeah. This is just great. We’re just buds.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:20

    He’s just embarrassing me horribly right now. Tim Ryan, I thought landed that and that became the clip of the night. That’s the one circulating. That’s the one that’s got millions of views on Twitter. And so I think that that probably gets him like a couple extra points.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:33

    Let’s do
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:34

    the audio before you go into it. Sebastian, can you lay
  • Speaker 5
    0:22:37

    that on us? Like
  • Speaker 6
    0:22:38

    just a few weeks ago in in Youngstown. On the stage, Donald Trump said to J. D. Vance All you do is kiss my ass to get my support. He said that.
  • Speaker 6
    0:22:49

    That’s bad because that means j d Vance is gonna do whatever he wants. Mitch McConnell’s given him forty million. He’s gonna do what he wants, and Peter Teal gave him a fifteen million. He’s gonna do what he wants. And here’s the thing that’s most troubling about this.
  • Speaker 6
    0:23:02

    Lack of courage is that after Trump took JD Vance’s dignity from him on the stage in Youngstown, JD Vance got back up on stage and said, start shaking his hand. Take a picture saying, hey, aren’t we having a great time here tonight? I don’t know anybody I grew up with I don’t know anybody I went to high school with that would allow somebody to take their dignity like that. And then get back up on stage, we need leaders who have courage TO TAKE ON THEIR OWN PARTY AND I’VE PROVEN THAT AND HE WAS CALLED AN ASKISTOR BY THE FORMER
  • Speaker 5
    0:23:34

    PRESIDENT. YOU
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:35

    KNOW, AND THIS IS PART OF THE REASON THAT’S SO GOOD IS THAT What’s interesting is people Like, JD Vance did get pulled over the line because Trump endorsed him. Like, there’s just no doubt about it. But it’s funny how voters both they sort of want people to have Trump’s endorsement, that helps. But there’s a whole group of people who do not like it to be just about Trump’s endorsed. Meant.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:56

    Like, I hear this from voters all the time and focus groups are like, if the only thing they have going for them, the Trump endorsed them and, like, that’s not enough. Like, the idea that he is a sink a fan to Trump, there are people for whom that cuts a different way, where they really don’t like that. They do like people to be independent minded I thought they could hit Teal and his money a little bit harder. One of the things I wondered though, was there a J. D.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:19

    Vance moment that is going viral in right wing world because he, like, owned Tim Ryan so hard. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:26

    didn’t see any actual particular clips. I did see a lot of positive reviews. Of JD Vance. Do you mean any big truths? I mean, are there any big truths going around?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:35

    Yeah. I was an untruth, but I did see untruth. I I, you know, I I have suffered through because conservative Twitter. And so, you know, some of the folks I was following were just sort of treating general positive views about about JD Vance’s performance, which I think speaks to what Jim kind of wrote about, which I kinda have to take a different view of Sarah on this, is that, like, JD came across as normal. He rebutted a lot of Tim Ryan stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:01

    You know, he didn’t kind of go down crazy doesn’t sound like Hersha Walker. Right? Like, the bar is so low that if you’re calling him an extremist, right, that you’re saying this and then he talks to, like, actually, I don’t know. This guy seems like kind of normal. Like, what are they talking about that he’s so far out there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:17

    I think the J. D. B. M. Had that going for him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:20

    He had a he did have a retort on the the abortion issue. I think the abortion issue kind of cut both ways for him. He weirdly endorsed Graham’s fifteen week federal ban, but then said, I think we could go even further than that, you know, which I which I don’t think is a popular view in Ohio. But he also the ten year old girl story that had gone viral. That’s gonna have to
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:42

    go to Indiana to get the abortion who is raped. You turn that into a legal immigration thing, which all the cons get get all, you know, start rubbing their nipples
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:49

    over because it was an illegal immigrant that did it. So I think they were pretty heavy on that clip. I don’t know. I just I kind of land in the in the gym thing. The problem with the I I mean, I loved the Tim Ryan, you know, talking about how JD Vance has no dignity because JD Vance does have no dignity that appeals to me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:06

    I was already opposing JD Vance though. Right? In a state that Donald Trump won by eight points, like, does that land with enough people, you know, I I hear what you’re saying, sir, there’s some that don’t like that, but does that land with enough people to move for him? I I, you know, I I would’ve the Opium fraudster clip, I really did like as well that had J. D.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:25

    Started this nonprofit that’s supposedly helping the opioid crisis, but he I put a big a guy from Purdue Pharma ahead of it and then didn’t actually do anything. I I think that’s pretty compelling and that’s like kind of more compelling to me than the Trump stuff. But I don’t know. You know, I I think that it’s Ohio is just such a challenge. Here’s why this race is so hard to
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:46

    call because the question is just convance hold on. Right? The question is, is he gonna lose just five points off of trans margin from twenty twenty? Or is he gonna lose, like, all eight? And that’s hard.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:59

    Right? Because the the question isn’t is he winning the campaign or losing the campaign? He’s clearly losing. The question is just, Is he losing by a small enough margin that he’ll be able to coast in? The
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:09

    thing about Ohio is that I think it’s Trump plus eight I’m not sure it’s entirely R plus eight. I mean, Sherrod Brown in twenty eighteen was plus six. Tim Ryan is running a Sherrod Brown campaign. Now it’s different Brown’s an incumbent. He’s got really good relations, but, like, that’s what Ryan’s been trying to do.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:28

    And he’s been you know, the reason that opioid clip part of the reason it lands, that was the ad. He ran a combination of those ads over the summer that were just blanketing the state, and the state really has been ravaged by opioids. And when I was doing the focus groups, a bunch of women brought those ads up and, like, they’d gone to look it up and, like, they were horrified by it. Tim
  • Speaker 5
    0:27:50

    is right and it’s sort
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:50

    of where I was going. I I actually think we agree that, like, the expectations where the expectations were for both of them is that Tim Ryan’s been running one of the best campaigns this cycle, and JD Vance has been running one of the worst. And so I think we expected the two candidates to comment for Tim Ryan to really over perform and for JD Vance to under perform. Instead, they both performed pretty well and that JD Vance probably gets the edge on expectations. I’m saying that in the second day round in terms of what, like, what the key moment was that the vast majority of people who do not sit and watch these debates will come away with is likely that clip.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:27

    But Tim’s making a good point about the fact that, like, a lot of a lot of these people did vote for Trump But I think but like I said, there’s a lot of people though who voted for Sarah Brown. There’s a lot of people who say that just Trump’s endorsement’s not enough. They wanna see somebody independent wanna see somebody who cares about Ohio, and they think J. D. Vance is a fraud.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:44

    And what’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:45

    this race gonna be decided by? Fifty thousand votes? Right. I mean, maybe a hundred thousand. Like, it’s gonna be a very small margin.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:52

    So it it becomes tough because then when we’re talking about who won or lost we’re really talking about who won or lost with a group of, like, a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand voters in Ohio. Who we can’t define because we don’t know exactly who the swing voters are and whether they’re swinging because maybe they’re d, maybe there are, or maybe they show up, maybe they don’t, and you know, this is why I sort of I I take your point, Tim, that, you know, getting thirty million views on Twitter the day after isn’t super indicative of of what it’s gonna do for hemp and electoral. I’m also
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:26

    concerned about the money. It does like, it looks like the Democratic establishment is is leaving Ryan out to dry. I’m not seeing enough of what they’re seeing in the data to to really be able to say whether I think that’s a good call or not. You know, obviously, they need their their biggest priority is making
  • Speaker 4
    0:29:41

    sure that Mitch is, I guess, the one thing they agree with Carrie Lake on. Making sure that old bat Mitch McConnell isn’t the majority leader again. And so, you know, maybe in order to do that, they need you know, max out Raphael Warmock and Mark Kelly, and it’s just not worth it as like a marginal risk kind of question. But but it is a reality that Ryan had a huge advantage over the summer and that that’s been reversed in the fall. Well, I
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:07

    think at the end of the day, the fact that Mitch McConnell’s had to spend and the outside groups have had to come in to drag J. D. Fans. I mean, thirty million dollars. Like, that they that is money that is being pulled out by senate leadership from the Blake Masters race, from Cortez Masto, whatever.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:24

    And so, like,
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:25

    Totally agree.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:25

    Ryan’s gonna be a winner on some of this. I think that the democrats in general from a money standpoint, they are not playing for keeps in twenty two the way they needed to be on money. Because they should be in there for Ryan, because it’s in reach, for a state that’s out of reach, and look, if they wanna keep Ohio competitive, they should be they should be playing but, like, the fact that they’re getting out spent right now by outside groups, like, pretty heavily percent
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:49

    of groups. And
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:50

    and that the, you know, the what DNC is they’re begging Biden for more money right now, the d triple c. Like, that’s bad. That’s bad. This isn’t a lie. They should be fighting for their lives right now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:01

    Hard agree. Alright. Listen. We time for us to talk about our sponsor. We had a sponsor for this show.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:06

    It’s Bolen Branch. Would make lunchary sheets and other bedding too, which is great. It’s super easy to do glow ups when the products are awesome. And they sent us all sheets And, you know, I so I knew that Tim and I would be super into this because Tim, I like the finer things in those. We do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:24

    Sarah, you were more of Every
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:27

    woman.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:28

    Every woman. And and so I was obsessing about the Bolton brand’s long staple. Cotton because the the truth is even more than thread count. What you care about when you talk about quality embedding is is the quality of the cotton. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:41

    It’s all about what do they use and they use the the top of the line long staple cotton. It makes it so supple. But, Sarah, you got your sheets. What do you think? Something You’re right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:51

    I have I spend zero time thinking about my sheets. And when I was looking at the sheets that were on my bed, I was, like, Do I have these sheets in do I have these in college? These are fine. How old are these? And so, like Did I get them a target?
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:05

    Like, I I when I put on the bowling brand sheets. I was like, the leveling up, like, the the like, the the amount of leveling up from where I was. Is so quantum that I endorse them, but, like, comp I I I will I whatever. They’re great. They’re better than anything I’ve had in my house.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:28

    My my wife is gonna be annoyed that I’m sharing this fact, but like, I I don’t know if this is it it is. It’s great. So it’s it’s like looking at
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:37

    How often are you washing your sheets?
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:38

    Well, they get they get washed all the time. I just I just can’t think of the last time, like
  • Speaker 5
    0:32:43

    There’s purchased a
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:44

    new pair. Yeah. So
  • Speaker 7
    0:32:45

    here is a
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:46

    here’s the little secret about the one of the other reasons you like the long staple cut is because it gets better with washing. So did you I don’t know if you guys know this, but you’re supposed to wash sheets fresh out of the box. Before you put them on your bed. We did that. I purposely did not wash my bowling branch sheets right off the bat.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:03

    I wanted to put them on raw and see how they felt and then compare that with the the first and second blushes, and they just get better. Guess what my
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:12

    It’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:12

    so good. Guess what my most
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:13

    recent prior to this, my most recent purchase of sheets, what what the fabric was. Tim will get it. Linen.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:21

    No. No. Flapper.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:23

    Flannel. Flannel. That’s it. Those are my nice sheets. We’re the flannel sheets.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:27

    You’re that you
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:29

    got from Target — No. I bet you. — in two thousand and three. Do it
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:32

    the Finkelitz clubs? There was a two
  • Speaker 7
    0:33:34

    for one. Sheets and gloves. Anyway,
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:38

    the Bolen brand sheets are fantastic. You should try the sheets that make the fall, the coziest season of the year. You can get fifteen percent off of your first set of sheets and free shipping when you use the promo code next level at bowl and branch dot com. That’s bowl and branch, b o l l a n d b r a n c h, dot com, promo code is next level. Go do it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:06

    I actually am gonna use my promo code this week to buy some other Bolen branch merch not work. But materials for myself. They have a they have a throw blanket that looks really good. And so, anyway, I’m gonna get spend my own money on this stuff. That’s how good it does.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:20

    Alright. Sarah, you may wanna just mute and kick back because Tim has a good forty or fifty minutes solidly that he’s been rehearsing about Ben Sasse. So I’ll just have the table for people. Ben Sasse,
  • Speaker 5
    0:34:38

    the The great hope from
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:40

    from Nebraska, who is to camping to Gainesville, Go Gators, to to the baby baby him and Seesburg, maybe gonna become the president of the University of Florida. And Tim, did you have any thoughts? I
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:59

    did. I did. You know, I I did a tweet about this. And me and Sarah both got a little bit of trouble on Twitter when it came to old Ben Benjamin SaaS. The tweet I did was
  • Speaker 5
    0:35:10

    excited for
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:11

    the youth of Florida who get to be molded by someone who will lecture them about the noble virtues after being unwilling to model them when tested by the moment. A little
  • Speaker 7
    0:35:20

    cheeky. Well, maybe a
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:21

    hair
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:22

    maybe a hair cheeky. I will admit the response to that tweet among the team normal Republican crowd was not good. If you wrote in Edmund Burke in twenty twenty, you thought that was a bad tweet. Everyone that rode in someone into each one that was very disappointed in me. What’s that if
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:41

    you rode in Larry Hogan?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:43

    If you wrote in Larry Hogan, you’d also not like that tweet. If you were a write in in twenty twenty If you like your wings with Larry Hogan in talk about how great he is. You probably didn’t like the tweet. So our friend Joe Goldberg of Jonah went on about this for about twenty something minutes on his podcast. And included a comment that I was purer than now, was crazy snarky, foolish, sign them too deep in the bunker.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:10

    And
  • Speaker 5
    0:36:10

    this
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:11

    the the gist of this kind of argument that he was making, oh, there’s many others don’t just take on Jonah, many others on Twitter who who criticized Nashore Viewcrowd, etcetera, was, you know, the sense that those of us who, you know, are are demanding that the party be burned down, demanding purity, demanding everybody do exactly like Liz Cheney does has to have this invincible confidence that that’s the only right way to behave and that it’s ridiculous to tear down somebody like Ben Sasse who did the right thing a few times in there and was better than ninety percent of the party, and and there’s something to be said for that. There’s something to be said for. But the The gist is. Like, the gist of their argument is as best I can tell and and, you know, they can now have another podcast they want just to to correct me. But is that, like, We don’t really know the best way forward with the Republican Party.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:59

    Right? And, like, it’s not right to defame somebody that had good intention who maybe had a different strategy. I think the jonas, you know, essentially are doing that, essentially, maybe the right decision is to stay within the party. To stay within the apparatus long enough to survive. So you can do good things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:17

    You can reform the party. The party can’t be burnt down. It’s good to have two good parties. We show people on the inside who who should reform it. There’s value to being a closet normal as he called it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:27

    I I obviously disagree with that. We disagree with that. But the thing that I the thing that really annoyed me about all of this is that,
  • Speaker 5
    0:37:36

    like, even
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:37

    if you are of that view, right, that the right thing to do is stick around the party and fight for the soul of the Republican party against these maggots. Then, like, shouldn’t you also be pissed at princess? Like, didn’t Ben Sasse let those people down too. Like, if you look at what Ben Sasse did for the last however many years since Trump came along seven years. I mean, he he was a of of great critic of him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:02

    I loved him. All of my friends used to snark about his book, and they would text me, and I would defend Ben Sasse. He was like one of the few people speaking out against Trump. Then he decided he wanted to run again. He neutered himself.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:13

    He got off Twitter. He decided to stop criticizing Trump. He didn’t vote for the first impeachment. He did support Trump’s illegal, unconstitutional diversion of money to build the stupid wall. Okay?
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:27

    Then he got Trump’s endorsement during his reelection run. Then he, as far as everyone knew, supported Trump. During Trump’s reelection in twenty twenty revealed after the election. After the election, it’s pretty bold that he voted for Mike Pence. K.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:43

    So then he did vote to convict Trump. That was good. And then less
  • Speaker 5
    0:38:45

    than two
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:46

    is better than voting for Edmund Burke. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Better worse.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:49

    I don’t know. But then now, less than two years? My pants is a lot. That’s true. That’s true.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:54

    If he has a chance conceivably to have won, we’re adverse to it. Now here we are less in two years into a six year term, he quit. So I just don’t know like the guy that wrote a book, The Vanishing American adults. Like, what does this guy want for that performance? Like, do you want a participation trophy?
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:12

    Do you want to be acknowledged that you did a one or two good votes? Like, that’s okay. I guess, he did some okay things. I’m willing to acknowledge that, but he’s now quitting retiring to Florida. We we all know what he’s gonna do.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:27

    He’s gonna go sit in the ivory tower in Gainesville. I don’t know. Do they make ivory in Gainesville? Whatever sit in the sit in the Redneck ivory tower in Gainesville and stay above all of the everything. Not engaged.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:36

    He’s not gonna be engaged in twenty twenty four when Trump wins again. He’s not gonna try to primary Trump like we all hoped that he did. He’s not gonna speak out against him. He’s not gonna campaign against him. He’s gonna do nothing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:48

    He’s he’s quick. When he still was forty years left and he’s gonna be replaced by somebody obviously Trumpier. So I just I I don’t know how and let unless you’re a Trumper, You can be happy with this decision by then SaaS unless what you really just don’t wanna do is you just don’t wanna rock the boat. Right? You just wanna be above it all.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:09

    And not actually, like, engage in the fight that we’re in right now. And if you don’t think that we’re in a very important fight and that’s not too big of a deal, Trump wins again in twenty twenty and, like, you know, the Republican party, like, whoever replace them is fine, then, okay, then Ben Sasse is doing a fine thing. But if you think that we have a real threat here, Like, don’t you want more out of like one of the eight good people left in there besides doing one vote and not using any of his political cap to try to get other senators to vote to convict him? It’s just an utter disappointment for somebody that just likes to lecture people about adversity and how we need to train our kids to be able to overcome adversity. Has he engaged in adversity?
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:49

    Did he try to overcome any adversity? No. Am I wrong here? No. I don’t think you’re
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:55

    wrong. Is
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:55

    there a more generous view of than SaaS than that? I think that my more generous interpretation not quite of SaaS, but of the people defending SaaS, are that SaaS leaving the field Like, what is left? So, Rhonda Santos is This is what my piece that’s in JBL’s inbox is about. Right? Rhonda Santos is campaigning with Doug Mastiano, who was at January sixth, who denies the election.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:23

    Glenn Youngkin is campaigning with Kerry Lake. Who said that she wouldn’t certify the twenty twenty election, anti vaccine conspiracy theorists, lunatic. The reason that they are defensive of him is because SaaS is making the same choice. That those people are. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:37

    The the people who are mad at you have also made that sort of similar choice is like, I’m going to go find a space where we can talk about conservative ideas and philosophy, and it will be entirely disassociated with the political vessel that used to help those ideas sort of materialize practically. Those things are now separated. And so, you know, like, one of the things I was thinking about Ben Sasse is, like, who is AEI gonna invite to conferences now? Right? Like, the thing about Ben Sasse is
  • Speaker 5
    0:42:05

    that he was like this
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:06

    Ben and Ben and Mitch thinking
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:08

    of panel.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:09

    That’s right. I mean, you know, he’s the kind of guy that would get invited to things still because he was like a safe, good conservative. He had not he had he had spoken up about Trump, but he hadn’t gone full, Liz Cheney. And which is where most of these people are. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:24

    Because what what they hate about us? That people
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:27

    read us. Is we
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:28

    do something very specific. Is that is that what
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:30

    they hate? What what
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:32

    what we say is that what they hate is that we say that the republic we do a threat assessment that the republican party is sufficiently dangerous at this point.
  • Speaker 5
    0:42:43

    And
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:43

    is not in a place to be reformed. It is actually, in fact, going the other direction. And therefore,
  • Speaker 5
    0:42:50

    You should vote for
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:50

    Democrats. Therefore, the other political party is a viable choice. Now, that is heresy.
  • Speaker 5
    0:42:57

    To a
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:57

    certain crowd of of sort of conservative thinkers who don’t wanna let go. And so you could on I can understand whether a defense of SaaS. Right? He’s doing what they’re doing, which is to take the ball, go somewhere to sort of sit and think and hope hope
  • Speaker 5
    0:43:14

    that
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:14

    probably due to people like us who try to deliver sustained electoral defeats to this dangerous version of the Republican Party, force it to reform itself by getting clobbered all the time, but they will not lift a hand in service to that. Well, SaaS is a
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:28

    shield in the way that Hogan and to new new were, which is the, you know, a guy you could point to and say, see, look, I’m not part of of that Republican party over there with the maggos, I’m part of this Republican party over here. And as these guys keep dropping, it becomes harder, like, who do you appoint to? Because those those guys over there don’t exist anymore. They’re extinct. I disagree with you taking out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:51

    Larry Hogan has not done what these other guys have done. So No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:55

    I’m saying they leave he he is a Republican figure who no longer exists because he’s he’s leaving. And so you They don’t really like Larry Hogan. They
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:00

    don’t. That’s the thing. Like, they they
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:02

    think Larry Hogan is to is to Liz Cheney. You know, like Sannuu. Sannuu is actively endorsing this guy Bulldog in New Hampshire. And this is what I mean about, like, the good Republicans. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:15

    They are all endorsing the bad Republicans. And there’s one fundamental flaw in this sort of philosophy, which is that they think that the Youngkins and the desantis is that they will be halfway points that drag the party back to sanity. And what they realize is that all the momentum is going the other way, that Yonkin and Sunrunu and DeSantis are all trying to
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:36

    coming
  • Speaker 7
    0:44:36

    in. Right? They’re all moving toward the more radicalized side of it. Of course, they realize that, but this is my thing about SaaS, though. Right?
  • Speaker 7
    0:44:42

    So why aren’t they shouldn’t they be mad at him? Shouldn’t they be mattered him than I am? Like, I don’t really care that much. I sent one tweet about Ben Sass. Right?
  • Speaker 7
    0:44:51

    And, like,
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:51

    everyday, all piled on all the bulwark lives. They still are so obsessed with this. I sent a single tweet. I don’t you know, to me, SaaS being replaced by somebody really isn’t gonna make any difference. Like, it might make a it might make a minor difference in twenty twenty four if they appoint a lunatic, you know, and the the, you know, the election gets the democracy gets thrown to the Senate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:11

    I guess I’d rather have SaaS in there than this anonymous lunatic, but SaaS isn’t doing a whole lot that makes me happy day in, day out. If he is their photonic ideal of what a good Republican should be doing right now, which is adhering the constitutional principles, Do it speaking out every once in a while when there’s a red line, doing just enough to stay in good grace within the party so that we have a ballwork pun intended to fight from, you know, once the Trump troubles are passed. And now he’s saying nope. Actually, I’m gonna go go put on some jorts and go down to Gainesville. And, like, talk about, you know, Cicero.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:46

    Like, I should I shouldn’t they be pissed at him. Like, I I that’s what I that’s what I don’t get. Like, why isn’t it? No. Because they’re this
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:54

    everybody’s the same. Name. Right? Like
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:56

    There’s no difference, really. Yeah. We’re mad
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:57

    at him because we know Ben Sasse. Knows. What’s happening right now. Like, this is he’s an actual person who’s like a constitutional scholar. He has as you point out, like, his book is about raising good citizens to be leaders.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:14

    Like, that is that’s the reason that the SaaS thing. I I I I have a big fan of of been SaaS or or or have been but It is precisely because we had high expectations of him that he is so disappointing, and they would they will ghibli say we are disappointed because he’s not
  • Speaker 5
    0:46:32

    shouting like
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:32

    Liz Cheney and the rest of us. And we’re saying, yeah, kind of, like, if he understands this, if he understands the needs of this moment. I mean, if he thinks that what’s happening right now to the Republican Party is not that big a deal. Like, if if that’s how these guys feel that it’s like a blip and it’s not that serious and we can then, okay, fine. Our assessment has just been this whole time that actually what’s happening is deeply dangerous.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:57

    And we felt like the coup should have been a moment in which people said, you know what? This is actually a real problem. But people are
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:04

    I’m facing adversity. We’re I’m facing adversity. I’m in Senate. They’re storm no tibia. They’re storming the fucking capital.
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:10

    And the whole point in this
  • Speaker 5
    0:47:11

    book is you gotta
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:12

    make your kids go work with their hands. And and and suffer through deprivation so that when they face adversity as adults, they can overcome it. Well, the capital was stormed while he was in there. So he was facing adversity and he’s walking away from it. He did one vote.
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:27

    That’s fine. Okay. That was a fine vote. But but there’s a lot left
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:32

    to be done. This guy is a
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:33

    good vote. It was the right vote, but there’s still more left to be done. This guy is still around. And it’s like, oh, what do you what do you want for him to do? Campaign for Denver.
  • Speaker 7
    0:47:41

    I don’t look look at Kensinger did just today. He endorsed some Democrats and some of these, which parties. Yeah. He
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:47

    he yeah. He endorsed I I actually don’t know if I care about that. But what I do care about is why can’t you answer the question of of who are you why can’t we support the person running against Mark Finchham in Arizona? Is that really too much of a question asked — Yeah. — for the closet normals to just say to just say that in the Arizona’s Secretaries of State Race, Well,
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:07

    I’m sorry, Tim. Joe Biden did a constitutionally dubious student loan forgiveness action. And so, therefore, both sides are are equally bad. That’s true. That’s a good point.
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:16

    Yeah. There you go. You know
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:17

    what?
  • Speaker 5
    0:48:18

    Is
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:18

    this the New York Times bitchpot had a a funny line about this. Yeah. You know, whether it is Donald Trump saying he wanted to grab women by the pussy, or Joe Biden saying that he loved his son and wished that he would get help, both sides have a problem with secret tapes.
  • Speaker 5
    0:48:37

    Right? I
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:38

    mean, this is
  • Speaker 5
    0:48:39

    I actually
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:40

    wanted to defend SaaS though for, like, a second and a half. Is that okay? Yeah, please.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:45

    Fine. I had I did
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:48

    that for you. I I think he’ll be actually a quite good university president. Sure. I I think he’ll be quite good for the institution. Watching the student’s protesting SaaS as he did his little town hall in Gainesville
  • Speaker 5
    0:49:04

    suggested
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:04

    to me that this is why we can’t have nice things. Yeah. So because I can see all sorts of, like, again, reasonable objections to Ben Sasse.
  • Speaker 5
    0:49:13

    Just rewind the tape fifteen minutes and listen
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:14

    to what Tim just said. Right? But instead, it’s, like, once upon a time he was against gay marriage and his words are violence and what you Like, these these are the stupidest most brain dead objections to the guy. And also, you know, like, if you care about the university, Rhonda Sanchez down there trying to throw his weight around and true with academic freedom. I just only can only assume that DeSantis has blessed this move, which is why SaaS is there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:45

    And so this would be good. If you were a member of faculty there, you would like a guy on the inside like SaaS in the position of power to try to defend academic freedom and keep the campus from, you know, like, knuckling under to the budding authoritarian and Tallahassee. Anyway, so I just look
  • Speaker 5
    0:50:00

    at this and
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:01

    I’m just like, this student response is why.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:05

    Who cares though? Who cares
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:06

    some
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:06

    students protested? Some nineteen year old students protested who cares? Like, honestly, like, who gives a shit? Like, isn’t that great? Whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:14

    They’re engaging in political discourse and maybe when they get a little older, they won’t be so rash. The stupidest possible level. I’m
  • Speaker 5
    0:50:20

    just saying,
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:21

    look, that that bugging. I looked at that. And I think this is you
  • Speaker 5
    0:50:24

    know, like, okay. It would
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:25

    be nicer to have been SaaS in the Senate. Like, you know, acting like a like a tough guy in standing up for democracy, but he’s not gonna do what he wants. But we’re
  • Speaker 5
    0:50:33

    gonna get
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:34

    in place to society. Welcome, Princess.
  • Speaker 5
    0:50:38

    I don’t know. Like,
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:39

    they they should be in favor of it. They should be in favor of it, or if they’re gonna object to it, they should object to it on serious grounds. That’s what I want. Pick pick one. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:48

    Don’t even have a preference. Pick one. Support the idea of SaaS as your university president, which by the way, I’m sorry, if you’re a college student, you care who the president your colleges, then your priorities are fucked up. No. You should be going on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:59

    This should have no bearing on your actual life. You should exactly. You should be out there doing molly and refusing to study for organic chemistry as is your god given This is what
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:10

    we should be talking about. You could ABL is terrible position on
  • Speaker 5
    0:51:13

    weed.
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:14

    Horrific.
  • Speaker 5
    0:51:15

    Marijuana.
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:16

    Terrific position. What do you mean my terrible position on weed? And I just
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:19

    tell you I
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:20

    was like, sure. Let’s all legalize it. Great. And everybody’s everybody’s attacking me for saying, sure, go ahead. Because I really thought all this all the way through.
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:26

    That’s literally what I’m saying. Tell you, your example
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:29

    of, like, a kid that gets gummies and then, like, takes the lunch and hands them out. And, like, this is where we’re headed. Was, like, it was it was a hundred percent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:40

    Where we’re headed. Here’s the thing. Where are we seeing how they package
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:43

    them? I I have. I have. They’re impossible to open. So it looks like they make them impossible to open.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:50

    The Stoney
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:51

    Patch Kids? They literally they they send them as candy. Right. I do think Not to sound like the old lady on Facebook about the illegal immigrants giving fentanyl away. But, like, this is a thing you can Look, parents barely keep keep their guns locked away properly.
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:05

    You think a bunch of stoner parents are gonna, like, keep their gummies and edibles locked away say No.
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:10

    I think that’s think you are aware to say that it is possible that a kid would consume accidentally parents gummies if they are left around. I think the idea that they would the parent would accidentally pack them as a snack and send them to
  • Speaker 5
    0:52:26

    was your hot
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:27

    head sconer. What do you want to say you want? If I want to their
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:30

    friends. I just thought that was annoying.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:34

    Everybody out of the company. Because
  • Speaker 7
    0:52:36

    those are
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:37

    saying shit, honestly. If you’re gonna have edibles, you wanna regulate the crap out of your edibles and it seems to me that smokeable marijuana is a much much easier thing to regulate and control use of. And if you’re gonna legalize it. But don’t worry, you know what? Because we will wind up legalizing weed in the dumbest and most obstructive possible way because that’s America.
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:59

    We’ll do it, and we’ll do it. Jacob, how do you think I
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:02

    get drunk the first time? How do how do you think I how do you think I get drunk? I
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:05

    can tell you exactly what you were in second grade, and you asked your friend Timmy to give you his water bottle. And Timmy’s parents had accidentally pork vodka into his water bottle in the morning because they were so confused. And it was a clear liquid because he
  • Speaker 5
    0:53:21

    gave you his
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:22

    water bottle and he said thanks, Timmy, and you drank Timmy’s water bottle, and that’s how you got blood out. And second grade That is extremely close to
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:28

    the reality, but it was just intentional. And we talked to the liquor out of our parent’s liquor cabinet, like, every any normal sixth grader, and then poured water back into it to try to make the levels go back up more and then got blackout drunk and threw up all over our neighbors like I got drunk. That’s how I got drunk. The first
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:50

    Nobody ever say to you, Kim. So are there any less
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:52

    dangerous Nobody ever say to you?
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:54

    This could go on your permanent record.
  • Speaker 5
    0:53:58

    Did the
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:59

    did your permanent record never cross your retinas as a kid? The permanent record. The permanent record was brought up to me a lot. And you just just said you just permanent record. You just said no.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:08

    I don’t care. Six
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:10

    degrees. That is I I actually I’m I’m I’m gonna be in the only space that is insane between the two of you which is sixth grade is too young to be getting black now drunk JBL Bureau of Reacting to the No. No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:24

    We’re reacting. I’m just saying, look, we’re in a legalized pot I’m missing I turned out fine. So what my so Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:29

    If
  • Speaker 5
    0:54:30

    if it’s a sixth if it
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:31

    was sixth grader, I had had a weed gummy instead of the peach Snops. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:37

    You would not have thrown up. You would have fallen asleep. Alright. This has been a long
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:39

    show. Which I did not wanna get dragged into this weed patch on the way out the door. Either of you have anything else? No. Can we go?
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:48

    I just I just think Ben’s ass has been a really bold and courageous individual and anybody who thinks that I thought otherwise, I just I apologize for my cheeky tweet. So I just I think he’s been such a great And he’s such a commercial locker for those kids in overcoming adversity. So congratulations to Ben Sasse. We’re gonna beat that ass in the swamp next year. You know what?
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:09

    There are so few Republicans left to defend if you have been a lifelong Republican who doesn’t leave. And so, you know, when you attack one of the last, you you know, that’s what’s gonna happen. People
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:21

    get mad. Alright, guys. Thanks for being with us. Again, hit the subscribe button, hit the like button, and come to the bulwark dot com, sign up for all of our awesome stuff, the podcast, the newsletters, the articles, you can get them all for free at the bulwark dot com. Tim, Sarah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:38

    See you next week.
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