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We Hate Him, So They Love Him (with Ron Filipkowski)

July 30, 2023
Notes
Transcript

Ron Filipkowski joins Tim to talk his journey form lawyer to never-Trump political commentator. Together, they analyze the MAGA transformation of the party they once called home, lambast Ron DeSantis’ attempts to peel off Trump supporters, and how he balances his day job with his constant tweets on conservative crazies.

Watch Tim interview Ron here: https://youtu.be/0dLxCE86VuQ

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This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:08

    Hello, and welcome to the level Sunday interview on Tim Miller. Today, I’ve got my friend Ron, Philipkowski, a guy I call the Kelly Clarkson of the Republican voters against Trump Campaign. Ron was a Republican lawyer in
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:22

    Sarasota, and his life turned upside down when he submitted his ARVAT video. Now he monitors far right extremists from dusk till dawn, while still loiring. And he’s gained a massive influential following for his clip of the most shocking mega material. We talk about the fever swamps, how he’s dealing with that mentally, whether his family and friends think he’s lost his mind, But most importantly, his insights into the underworld of Mega Media. Remember to check us out on YouTube.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:51

    Subscribe to us on YouTube. Give us a review on Apple if you haven’t. You’re gonna enjoy this one. Up next, Ron Philipkowski with since you’ve been gone, but first, our friends at acetone. Peace.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:12

    Hello. To the next level Sunday show. I’m your host, Tim Miller. I’m here with my buddy, Ron, Philipkowski. Now as you know, on the Sunday interviews we’ve brought in, You know, some celebrities who brought in some folks from, you know, Hollywood.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:32

    And so I thought it would be an appropriate vehicle to do an interview I’ve wanted to do, for a long time with the Kelly in Avarvest. The man I called the Kelly Carson of Republican voters against Trump. He now has, I don’t know, like almost a million people following his monitoring and his clipping of the far right media, a backstory, like many of us of the Buller could have been a Republican. He he still has a day job somehow, in the midst of doing all this. I wanna talk to Ron about both his life, how he got to here, but also, if there’s ever an interviewer, there’s somebody who’s spending more time in the fever swamps than me, This is it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:05

    Ron Ron is living in the fever swamps literally and figuratively down there in Florida. So, Ron, thanks for doing this, buddy.
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:11

    Thank you. I I was appreciated when you make your your cameos when you spend a week, listening to Steve Bannon and yeah. I feel like I have company, you know.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:21

    Yeah. That’s nice. That’s nice. I’m glad I can do that with you. And every time I do it, I’m like, boy, I’m happy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:26

    I don’t have to do this every day. Like, run. I just got out of a can to swamp, and, I was like, I need a cigarette and, you know, a few days of watching bravo after that. So you’re doing the Lord’s work. For people that don’t know, let’s just kinda get your backs right how you got to this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:40

    And I’m sure some of these people may not even know they know you. They just see your clips on the internet. I’ve been wanting to tell you I had a very prominent national political reporter. Tell me they have your tweets on text alert. So every time you send something, they get a text message.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:55

    I I mean, like, so your stuff is penetrating at the highest levels. And so for people who don’t kinda know who this is, you know, whether you’re an AI or how you got into their feed, give us just, you know, a penny tour of kinda how you ended up, you know, doing the r vat video and and now doing this far right media monitor.
  • Speaker 4
    0:03:12

    Yeah. Well, I was active in the Republican Party for thirty years. Lots of roles, campaign manager, working with the county party, president of the local Republican club, general counsel, serving in all those different roles, and sort of watched how the party evolved. And then, of course, Trump comes along, and I was very much adamantly anti trump. I actually supported Marco Rubio in that primary.
  • Speaker 4
    0:03:39

    And there was no way I was ever gonna vote for Trump. So basically when he was elected, which sort of surprised me, I voted none of the above in that race. I I completely checked out and and paid no attention to politics. Paid no attention to the news. You know, I just kinda watched sports and read history books for for four years or three years.
  • Speaker 4
    0:03:58

    And then COVID happened. And that sort of forced me to kinda pay attention. And that’s when I really made the ARVAT video is because I saw the commercial for you guys and Lincoln Project’s commercials on CNN. And that was the first time it really hit me that, you know, I bet you there’s a lot of Republicans like me. That are seething in silence over Trump, you know, that are just can’t stand the guy, but have never told anybody that, never said anything to anybody.
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:25

    So I made the video as a Republican against Trump and you guys posted it and then kinda all hell broke loose where I started getting asked to do a lot of stuff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:35

    And we have appreciated that. So some people, like, put the video up and it was like, cathartic. Like, they just had to get it out of their system, but then, you know, they didn’t want any more heat and then, you know, there are other folks that did it and, like, wanted to kind of see this thing through and so, and you were in the latter camp. So appreciate that. Thing that I remember when I came across our transom, the video that just stood out to me was like how Republican you were.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:00

    You mentioned, you know, being the head of the Republican club, you know, there were some people. We got some of the people that that were like that, but, who submitted, but, you know, that was kind of rare. I mean, the one anecdote that always jumped out at me was that you named your child, Ronald Reagan Philipkowski. And it did. That is true.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:16

    Absolutely. That is true. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:05:17

    And I wanted to name my second one Winston Churchill, but that was where my wife kinda drew the line and said, absolutely not. But I did get the first one as as Ronald Reagan. Yes. So
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:30

    That’s something that gives people credibility. When they hear that in the ad, they’re like, okay. This guy was serious. About his business. Alright.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:36

    This was not a riot.
  • Speaker 4
    0:05:36

    It was always my intention to run for Congress, you know, someday. And that was sort of what I was gearing up to do. I I interned in the legislature I was a marine. I was a state prosecutor, federal prosecutor, director of the police academy here. So I checked every box going up the line, but really what it was.
  • Speaker 4
    0:05:54

    Tim for me was I had five kids, and I was coaching all their teams, and I just sort of decided, like, I would rather do that than the chicken dinner circuit and do all the things you need to do to get elected. And second was the fundraising part of it. Just I never liked it. I hated it. I hated asking people for money.
  • Speaker 4
    0:06:13

    So those two things combined sort of led me to the decide, like, I’m I’m not gonna run for anything.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:19

    Okay. So then Joe Biden wins, many people like you, it would be rational to be like, alright. I’ve got a law business. I can go back to that. I’ve got, you know, they’re always grandkids, teams to coach, whatever it is, like other things to happen.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:34

    So what then turns you into saying, okay, you know, we’ve done this. We got rid of them, but I’m gonna spend all day, you know, watching war room. With Steve Ban and and sending out these clips.
  • Speaker 4
    0:06:47

    You know, to be honest with you, probably Rudy Giuliani’s press conference with Sydney Powell was what did it. You know, my plan was I got on Twitter for two months, you know, before the election. And I just said, I’m just gonna get on here to try and convince Only thing I was doing was trying to convince moderate Republicans to vote for Biden. That was it. My intention was to quit Twitter.
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:07

    The day after the election. But then, you know, when it became obvious to me and that anybody who knows Trump that he was not gonna concede which was obvious months ahead of time. I knew he wasn’t gonna concede. So I said, well, I’ll stick with it until he concedes. And then the Rudy press conference happened And that’s when I literally, like, drove off the Sunshine Skyway.
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:30

    I literally was on the Sunshine Skyway when he came on and started talking about Hugo Chavez and the Italian satellites drove off the road and just started live tweeting on the side of the highway because I just couldn’t believe it. And that’s when I sort of really go, where are they getting this stuff from? And that’s when I delved into the whole, you know, qanon, right wing conspiracy world. And followed that world into the Proud Boys and the Elsekeepers right up through January sixth, saw all of the planning, saw them, and it it just really shocked me what the Republican Party had become at that grassroots level that I hadn’t been a part of in five years. You know, but to watch what it had been from when I left all of that stuff in sixteen, what it was in twenty twenty one was like night and day.
  • Speaker 4
    0:08:20

    And it scared the hell out of me. And and I determined at that point, like, defeating Trump is not gonna defeat this movement. The movement itself has to be defeated.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:28

    Were you thinking on the morning of January six? I mean, I’ve you’d spent all the time, you know, reading oath keepers probably stuff. I mean, do you feel like you saw it coming? A lot of people were caught off guard. Lot of
  • Speaker 4
    0:08:37

    people now who claim they saw what’s coming, but they didn’t. I always say show me the proof. I got the tweets to prove it. So I was plugged into a lot of independent journalists that were in there at the time. There’s a whole bunch of them on Twitter that were in embedded in that crowd.
  • Speaker 4
    0:08:52

    That I was following their live feeds with two other people, and we were just recording everything. But I knew because I had been following all the oath keepers, stuff. I would be following Joe Biggs, following the Proud Boys guys in Riki Terrio. I watched him say, you know, we’re gonna bring the bear spray and we’re gonna wear the body armor and we’re gonna wear disguises. I had absolutely no doubt in my mind there was gonna be violence.
  • Speaker 4
    0:09:16

    I didn’t know that they were gonna breach the capital. I thought that they would be stopped trying to do that. I didn’t know that they would actually get inside. But I knew all about the Eastman stuff, the Michael Flynn stuff, all of that stuff before it happened night. I saw it being planned.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:33

    So when did all of your stuff start taking off? After that. And it was monitoring if the media or monitoring of kind of, like, the more of the grassroots stuff that was happening on the right.
  • Speaker 4
    0:09:43

    It really was grassroots. See, because other people monitored the media. You know, there’s plenty of guys that clip Fox News and News Max And what I found was like, that’s not really what drives this movement. What drives the movement are the influencers and the podcasters and the social media people, they’ve really taken over that MAGA Movement. It’s not Fox News.
  • Speaker 4
    0:10:04

    Matter of fact, most of them don’t even watch Fox News at all. The only thing that they watched was Tucker Ron DeSantis he’s gone, they don’t even watch Fox. So I found that, like, people who clip Fox were not really helpful to me in understanding the movement. So when I really burrowed in and started following guys, like, you know, Michael Flynn and Roger Stone and Cash Patel and all these other people, Tim Pool, you name it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:28

    Their telegram fees.
  • Speaker 4
    0:10:29

    All that stuff. That’s when I real it really opened my eyes to what is really happening in the party. And it it’s not the party that you and I grew up in. That’s for sure.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:40

    Now, I mean, the people in your life have to feel like you’ve gone a little crazy. So I went down to visit you briefly at the circuses in town and we we had a version of this kind of conversation that I wanted to do in longer form. I get a little vision into your life and, you know, you’re still doing some lawyering. You’re in a red part of the state. You know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:56

    There you go. Obviously, your friend group was a family pretty Republican. I mean, they must think that you’ve lost your mind.
  • Speaker 4
    0:11:04

    Yeah. It’s not really something I talk about with my family very much. My sons are trump supporters, you know. So so Yeah. It’s and my daughter is I have one child who’s not, and she’s the only one I talk.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:18

    It’s usually the inverse. This is an interesting counter to, like, the story of that you see of, like, oh, you know, the avocado toast eating millennial who’s, like, my parents brains have been rotted by Tucker. You know, you hear that a lot. Trying to imagine, like, this bizarre world where, you know, your sons or your and your daughter are, like, my my father’s brain has been rotted behind the whole world. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:40

    I don’t know. I mean, you have to have some people that are trying to be like, hey, man, take a breath.
  • Speaker 4
    0:11:45

    Yeah. I think they chalk it up to like Trump arrangement syndrome kind of thing that it’s all about Trump. And and I get accused of that by the right wingers, you know, all the time, but it’s really not it. Trump is like a circus clown to me a lot of the time. You know, it’s the people around Trump are way worse worse than him, I think, you know, the the people in his ear.
  • Speaker 4
    0:12:05

    So, no, it’s it’s an entire political movement that’s hijacked the party I look what it’s done to our county party here and I’m disgusted. I’m just horrified that these crazy people that used to sit in the corner and grumble are now in Charlie Sykes know, and that’s that’s happened all over the country. So so really what I see is like it’s this entire movement that’s become just this huge incredible threat to the country. So, yeah, I I think we’re in a very bizarre time. And, you know, my fifth child went off to college.
  • Speaker 4
    0:12:36

    So That’s why I just kinda dove into it. Plus I also felt that no one else was properly covering these people. I really felt that way mainstream media, I felt like the leaders of the parties didn’t understand what’s happening. They didn’t understand these people. They didn’t understand the movement.
  • Speaker 4
    0:12:52

    So I felt there was a great need for somebody who really understood these people to communicate it to people who didn’t.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:00

    I feel that way too. I mean, when was the wake up call for you on that? I mean, because obviously, Trump winning was a bit of a wake up call, but there is an element to your you’re you’re talking about the the clownishness Trump. Right? There’s this element to that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:10

    It’s like, well, I get it. Some people like them from the apprentice, and they don’t follow things closely. They’re casuals. Like, that was different than realizing. Okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:20

    Actually, the story that is told in the mainstream media, this story that’s told on Fox about the party is not actually the right one. And for me, it took to actually travel out there and doing the circus stuff and seeing people and then doing some of the media deep dives. I kind of recognize there is a very large energy out there that wants something that’s much, much darker than this. And it is it is not just, you know, the fact that these are kind of casual. People don’t think that Trump is funny.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:50

    There is an element of that. Like, Trump has that appeal to to a certain group of, you know, barstool bros. But, like, there’s another deeply sinister thing that’s taken over kind of from the bottom up. So, like, was it during that period between the election in January six or or do you remember some inflection points on that where you kinda realize how strong that part of the movement is?
  • Speaker 4
    0:14:10

    Yeah. I’ll answer that, but I’ll go back to what you just said. So yesterday, actually, I talked to somebody with the Trump campaign, and he said to me something I’ve actually said in the past, which I thought was very insightful from him, which was he said, you know Ron, the exact things that you guys hate about Trump, are the exact things that we love about Trump. All the misogyny, the homophobia, the gangsterness, the mob stuff, the brash stuff, Those are the exact traits that attract them. So when we look at those traits and we say, oh, these are horrible things.
  • Speaker 4
    0:14:47

    How can anybody like Trump when he’s like this? That’s exactly the reason they do like trump. And that’s what you have to sort of understand to get your hands around it. But as far as, like, moments.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:59

    That’s very different. Just I wanna go back to the moments. That’s just very different. It’s insightful because it’s very different than, like, the conventional wisdom about Trump. A lot of And I and I think even in the mainstream media, a lot of people in, like, the big cities who can’t wrap their head around that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:12

    Right? Yep. You know, in the donor class and the Republican strategist class, the conventionalism is, like, the tweets are the problem. Right? Like, the old line about, like, oh, but the, you know, but the tweets.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:22

    Right? Like, if it was, it’s just you just send some mean tweets. And that voters like kind of like the fact that he was good on conservative policies and and that they like him in spite of the tweets. And that is just a totally wrong assessment of what his appeal is.
  • Speaker 4
    0:15:36

    If you’re at a Trump rally, when they get electrified and loud, it’s when he says the worst possible stuff from a human perspective.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:45

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:15:46

    The lower he goes into the gutter, the more excited they get. That’s why I think he loves UFC and rest sling so much. It’s literally like that atmosphere. Like, the worst it carnage it gets, the uglier it gets, the more the crowd loves it. Or a boxing match.
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:02

    You know? And I think that there’s no coincidence that those are all Trump’s favorite sporting events to attend. Are are events like that. You know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:09

    No. We did an interview earlier a couple of months ago with somebody that wrote a book about Vince McMan. Yeah. And it’s very insightful into the mindset of Trump. There is definitely an overlap
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:18

    and they’re very tight. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:19

    And they’re tight.
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:19

    They’re good buddies. Yeah. Dana White, of course, and Trump are very tight from the UFC. So the moment I would say is is like, Is the moment when all the January six leaders like Flynn and others, Patrick Byrne, all these guys They sort of went underground for like three or four months after January sixth and kept their heads down and their mouth shut. I think because they were all thinking like, they were about to be arrested any day.
  • Speaker 4
    0:16:44

    Mhmm. You know, they didn’t know what was gonna go down. And then I think when they felt like it didn’t, when all of them resurfaced and started forming groups, organizations, these, you know, reawaken tours and started Secret Podcast. That’s when that was the moment that sort of triggered it for me. And when they started organizing people to go into like school board meetings and throughout the summer of twenty twenty one, I would say that’s when I really went all in.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:11

    You know, when I saw, like, this stuff is never gonna end, it’s only gonna get worse. Trump could drop dead tomorrow, and these people aren’t going away. You know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:20

    Yeah. This was the same time that I did the Lynnwood profile.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:24

    I went
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:25

    to South Sarah Longwell. And it was interesting. And it it gave me a really good insight into, like, these two realities of the Republican world where you have kind of the the donor class and the party leaders and how they convince themselves, you know, that they still have control of the reins, which is obviously insane to any of us that are looking at this stuff. I saw when would it event in Columbia, which is a capital of South Carolina with the political class.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:47

    He was running for state party chair.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:49

    He was running for state party chair at the time. Yep. Right. And he was like, like, they treated him like a leper at this meeting in South Carolina. Or, like, it it was all the old timey South Carol, you know, the Henry McMastercrowd, the old timey South Carolina a class that’s been around forever was at this state central committee meeting.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:07

    Then there was another meeting about an hour outside of Columbia that happened the next day. And there, Lynn was, like, Harry Stiles, you know, like a rock star. Like, people everybody went through.
  • Speaker 4
    0:18:19

    I think it was the bikers for Trump event.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:21

    Okay. Yeah. So those back to back to me. I was just like, oh my god. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:27

    There was this like quasi genteel you know, group of old establishment Republicans that think that they have, like, control of the snake. And then you go see the snake the next day. You’re like, you guys, I have not. Like, I totally swamped at the energy of this other group, how crazy they are, like, the things that they believe, and I talked to Lynn after one of them. And, you know, he’s had a huge fall from grace and sin, but you could kind of see the glimmer in his eye about kind of recognizing, like, kind of the power of the crazy train.
  • Speaker 4
    0:18:56

    Well, you can see that same glimmer in Steve Bannon. You know, you watch him enough.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:00

    Right.
  • Speaker 4
    0:19:01

    Yeah. You know that half the stuff he says, he doesn’t believe himself And you can tell because he gets that glimmer in his eye and he gets that little smile where he’s kinda like winking at you going, I know this is all bullshit, but these people love it. You know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:16

    Yeah. I wanna just talk about what’s happened in the race and and what you’ve learned from, watched all this. I just wanna do a little bit before before I do. Like, again, about your life. And and you’re in Florida.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:26

    I do have safety concerns. I mean, I I worry about you a little bit sometimes. You’re recognizable at this point that mug is right there on the Twitter feed. Is anybody throwing tomatoes at you on the street? And
  • Speaker 4
    0:19:38

    You know, when I first got on Twitter, I was anonymous, like, a lot of people And I think I decided after, like, two months. I’m like, I can’t do this anonymously. Like, I I just felt like putting your name on the account is a lot more effective and impactful.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:54

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:19:54

    Because people know who you are and they could see your background. But I knew when I did that, what was gonna happen. You know, I was at that time, you know, Ron DeSantis appointee, you know, till I resigned. So, to a commission, So, yeah, I knew what that meant. I knew that I was gonna be ostracized locally in the party.
  • Speaker 4
    0:20:15

    I knew I was gonna get threats. I was gonna lose friends and that all happened. I knew when I did the r vat video. You know, I thought about it for like three days because I knew the implications of that. Look, I look around when I get in my car every day now, and I never, of course, I never did that in my life.
  • Speaker 4
    0:20:32

    But, yeah, you know, you’re definitely concerned. I live in the same town as Michael Flynn, Michael Flynn’s brother, a lot of right wingers. The headquarters of Trump media is here. I’ve seen Devin Nunes in town, I’ve seen Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:20:47

    You’re talking about truth social. The headquarters of that is about three miles from where I’m sitting right
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:52

    Where is that?
  • Speaker 4
    0:20:52

    In Sarasota? It used to be a fifty fifty, very artsy community split right down the middle. Yeah. It is now Magac Country. This county.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:02

    Are you recognizable at this point? Yeah. It’s kind of interesting. I when I go to turning point USA things, like, the only people that recognize me are kind of more of the high class mega people, because they’re, you know, like intellectually curious enough to, like, turn on MSNBC sometimes. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:15

    Like, the real mouth breathers don’t really recognize me because they’re not you know, I’m just not in there. They are like in a hermetically sealed bubbles crazy. Right? And so is that your kind of
  • Speaker 4
    0:21:25

    No. The problem is they all know me, you know, because
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:28

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:21:28

    They a lot of them follow me on Twitter. I mean, because the reality is I think I cover them better than anyone on their side So
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:36

  • Speaker 3
    0:21:36

    Sure.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:36

  • Speaker 4
    0:21:36

    they get a lot of their information about what’s going on in their own movement from me. So, yeah, a lot of them know I talk to some of them. I communicate with them. So, yeah, I think I think I’m definitely more recognizable. I used to be able to go to events all the time, like, rallies and stuff.
  • Speaker 4
    0:21:53

    But I feel like I probably can’t anymore. I get invited all the time. I was invited by Roger Stone to one.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:59

    Why aren’t they communicating with you?
  • Speaker 4
    0:22:01

    No. They they just wanna kill me really. They they don’t really want me to go. I mean, they just wanna lure me probably to something But, why do I talk to them or why do they talk to me?
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:13

    Yeah. Why do they talk to you?
  • Speaker 4
    0:22:14

    Yeah. I think for right now, it’s all about Ron DeSantis. You know? And I think I had probably the most effective anti DeSantis account on Twitter for a couple of years now. Where I’m just relentlessly hammering away at DeSantis.
  • Speaker 4
    0:22:29

    So I think that a lot of the paid Trump people on social media sort of looked at me like a useful resource for them to go after Missantis. You have to keep them at arm’s length, and and, you know, there’s varying degrees of crazy. Amongst them. You know, some of them are way out there. I’ll talk to anybody.
  • Speaker 4
    0:22:49

    Look, I’m a I’m a I’ve been a criminal lawyer for twenty eight years. So I’ve represented murders, drug traffickers, armed robbers, you know, you name it. I’ve represented some pretty bad people. So talking to somebody who I don’t especially like is quite easy for me to do, and I can separate out my personal feelings about that person from the the task at hand. But, like, I sent you something yesterday that’s somebody who works for Trump, and Literally, like he tweeted something that I had said to him earlier in the day, but he put it out as his tweet.
  • Speaker 4
    0:23:23

    So I think that that shows the usefulness of it to me and that, you know, a lot of them aren’t gonna listen to me, but They’ve just heard my words from somebody that they like and respect who works for Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:34

    Yeah. On the other hand, it’s kind of like, god. Because I grapple with this because I hear from them too. They wanna use me for very like, there’s certain types of things that a Trump person can’t criticize Ron DeSantis person for, Ron DeSantis person can’t criticize a Trump person for. I had somebody There was a big, it actually ended up, I think, working out for the best.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:50

    There was a big, bright part takeout on a, unracist material that a DeSantis person had sent out. I had seen that before. I don’t wanna get it. You know what I mean? I’m gonna pox on both your houses place.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:02

    And so sometimes I was like, I don’t want you guys using me. Sometimes, maybe sometimes you can be useful to me. It’s a nice search and who’s getting used and who’s using, you know.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:11

    Yeah. I mean, they use my stuff against DeSantis. I mean, that’s pretty much it. You know, I never criticized Democrats. So It’s not like I’m giving them anything on Joe Biden, you know.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:23

    Right. But they do use a lot of my DeSantis material, and I use a lot of theirs. So I think that they like it that I’m more mainstreaming some fringy people on the right because, look, they might find a clip of DeSantis that no one else has. So just because I’m getting it from a right wing way out there. In that case, it’s still a clip, you know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:46

    I’m a little worried about you though. Are you just sitting in your basement all alone? Like, you have outlets still. You’re getting sun in Florida, you
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:52

    know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:52

    You’re able to leave your house. I’m like socialize and stuff. I just had the amount of material that you’re putting out, you know, is prolific. So, you know, I’m just checking in on you. Mental health check on Iran?
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:04

    Yeah. Well, I can say, the vacation I just took was nine days with no internet and at the insistence of my wife, and that was a really good thing to sort of decompress and get away.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:14

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:15

    So, yeah, you you definitely need that, but I don’t know. I’ve just I’m a grinder. You know, I’m I’m just good at just being very relentless and very obsessive. Yeah. I mean, I’m I’m pretty much from the moment I wake up, six AM, then I have to start work, of course, so I’m a practicing lawyer.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:31

    Like, last week, I did a five day drug trafficking jury trial. All last week, five days. And I tweeted right through it. I had, like, twenty viral tweets last week during a drug trafficking trial. So So there you go.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:44

    It’s all about compartmentalization. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:46

    That’s insane, though. You know, you’re like breaking national news. You’ve got Andy Rodox retweeting you last week. You’re doing this, like, while you’re in the middle of a while you’re in the middle of a trial, what are your sleeping hours?
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:59

    You know, like, ten thirty to six. I mean, I do that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:02

    That’s not bad.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:03

    I get a little sleep. Yeah. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:04

    Doesn’t seem like you much have time for much else, I guess. It’s just you, the fever swamps, and lawyer. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:10

    I’m I’m efficient. I know where to go to get stuff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:12

    Is it pamper of the jury? Ever been like, hey, I saw your tweet. Yeah. Uh-oh, I don’t wanna get you in trouble. Sorry.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:20

    No. Honestly, that’s probably another reason why I’m I’m leaving the practice of law soon, which I am doing. And that’s one of the reasons is because There have been occasions where I’ve gone in front of judges who I know don’t like what I’m doing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:35

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:36

    And there have been occasions I’ve gone in front of judges who I know do like it. And same thing with juries. I mean, there very well could be people on that jury who say that they don’t know me in jury selection, but they do and they hate me.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:47

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:26:48

    So I don’t want that to hurt any of my clients, you know, my involvement in politics. So, yeah, it’s definitely a factor. I feel like I’ve been doing law for twenty eight years I wanna transition over into politics full time, and that’s what I’m about to do.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:02

    It is a modern story. Country lawyer becomes influencer. I feel like, you know, we could do a Christmas special on Hallmark about about this or or thirty rock episode or something.
  • Speaker 4
    0:27:14

    It’s interesting because that that you say that because I just thought about this the other day. I was thinking without social media in the modern world, which really is, like, it it has many horrors, but also has some positives in that it’s a pure meritocracy because I was thinking like under the old school politics, you would have had to come up to ever get invited to be a guest on TV or to do anything or to talk to a Washington post reporter about politics like I do every day.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:40

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:27:41

    You would have had to have gone up through the ranks and had a number of titles, and you would have had to have been campaign manager for this Congress person with I’m not any of that stuff. You know, it’s just I think just the work and the content I just put out with no titles, with no nobody knew who I was, with no the work itself that I did stood on its own. And and I think that, you know, that could not have happened ten years ago.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:11

    This is a rant I always do about how people say that free speech is in greater threat than ever. I’m like, it’s crazy. I was like, in your case, it has been for good. But there are plenty of other cases where people are are, like, are evil or insane and have become famous beyond their wildest imaginations. And these are the people you monitor, you know, like, on TikTok and on Twitter on social media on YouTube, In the old world, they’d they would’ve been screaming at clowns on street corners with megaphones or, like, writing letters to the editor or, you know, hoping their local Talk Radio.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:39

    Jockey would would, like, let him on the phone for ninety seconds, the other side. That is kind of the dark side of the coin, but I I like you pointing out that it is true that somebody that really wants to make a difference and have their voice be heard If you wanna be a freak like run and grind out twelve hours a day while you’re doing a drug trial, like you can do if you have something to say and a passion, I think that’s cool.
  • Speaker 4
    0:29:01

    Yeah. And you have the the talent and the ability too. I mean, you can’t just be an idiot. But, yeah, you take people like the other side of the reverse side of coin is guys like Philip Buchanan, who’s cat turd, you know, Jack Posobic, people like that are fall into that category where without social media, no one would know who they were.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:19

    Yeah. Okay. I wanna get into twenty twenty four. Last psychological question for you though, your wife though, you mentioned her. She’s okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:25

    She’s not worried about you. She doesn’t need to call me, like, write many letters. She’s handling the target on your back. Okay. I guess it’s probably no different than having clients that we’re alleged to have done bad things.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:36

    Yeah. I guess she’s used to it by now.
  • Speaker 4
    0:29:38

    She’s definitely used to a certain element of crazy in my life I mean, we haven’t talked about all the stuff that I’ve done, but, yeah, I mean, I’ve done a lot of wild stuff. And so I think she’s just used to rolling with the punches at this point. Alright.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:51

    Well, she needs a drink in New Orleans. She can send her my way. She’s like, hey, I got the days for myself now. Ron’s been down in the basement for the last two hours. He’s been monitoring a live stream on Jack Posobiac’s telegram feed.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:03

    Anyway, when when we talked for the circus, I I thought you were so early and so correct and have been proven so correct about this. This was maybe I guess it was before the midterms. Know, so maybe last October was only came down to Sarasota, me and Halman to talk to you, and and he was asking you about twenty four. And your assessment was basically it’s just trumpet to Santa maga voters are not interested in anybody else. I wrote an article this week called, you know, there’s two primaries as a real primary and imaginary primary.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:33

    The real primary is the voters who are gonna vote in the primary, actually care about the imaginary primaries with the donors and talking heads on TV talk about. And then the real primary, from my vantage point, It’s Trump. It’s DeSantis, but increasingly less so. It’s Vivic, increasingly more so. And, you know, RfK Junior’s running in the wrong party.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:51

    They love him too. So that that was my take, but I I’d like for you, you know, since you’re spending more time in that world to grade me on that and just to kinda give your sense for you know, how, you know, your average Magga world is seeing the primary as of right now, kind of July twenty twenty three.
  • Speaker 4
    0:31:07

    Yeah. I read your column. It’s it’s pretty much just Trump now. I I don’t I mean, I watched a Sanders interview this morning where you talked about an electoral college path now. It always seems like whenever you start crunching math state by state, that means you’re in trouble, you know, because, you know, whenever you’re like, well, I know, you know, I think he’s already written off New Hampshire.
  • Speaker 4
    0:31:28

    He’s bank.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:28

    It’s the old Rubio thing. He’s like, we’re gonna be gonna bronze in New Hampshire and then a silver in South Carolina, and then we’ll get a gold, but a
  • Speaker 4
    0:31:36

    And then and then momentum will be yeah. I mean, that’s kind of the argument that he’s making. I think he’s written off New Hampshire. He’s counting on his relationship with Kim Reynolds to bail him out in Iowa, and then he’s spending a ton of time in South Carolina these days. And I that he’s gonna move to South Carolina probably is he’s really banking on that.
  • Speaker 4
    0:31:55

    He could have a good showing in South Carolina, win Iowa and get some momentum. I’m
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:59

    interested in both your take from the grassroots standpoint and the media talking heads standpoint because, well, do take the grassroots first and then and then we’ll get to the media.
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:07

    I truly believe that he thought he was gonna be able to win over a big chunk of the Maga base. And this is, I think, what I said to you guys when I was here was that’s completely the wrong strategy. And that will never ever happen. For this reason, he thought he would win them over with policy and with his record, and the Magabase doesn’t love Donald Trump for those things. They love Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:36

    For the things we hate about Donald Trump. And when you look at it through that prism, you can see his strategy was I’m gonna show the Magabase that I’m Trump who can get things done. I have all these policy positions that are far right positions, and I’ve implemented them in Florida. Trump is all over the place on policy, and he accomplished nothing. He got none of it through Congress.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:00

    So that was the argument that he was gonna make to the Magabase. The problem with that is that’s a rational argument, and they’re not rational people. And so he can’t connect with them on a level of why they love Trump, which is the whole the personality, and he doesn’t have that. What he did is he went after MAGO with that argument, that blew up in his face. He didn’t get any of them.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:26

    So now where is he? He’s been out on the far right ledge for months now. So what is he gonna do? Try and go get those mainstream establishment voters now. With the completely retooled message and retooled campaign.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:40

    I guess, I listened to his interview today was one hour. He didn’t use the word woke one time. Not once. Now compare that to two months ago where he would use it thirty times in an interview. The message is clearly being re Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:54

    We’re taping this on Wednesday. And so the interview you’re talking about today is the Clay Travis interview. The the one not knowing that this interview is gonna happen, just just showing, you know, the reach of Iran, right before we got on, the Bulwark Slack is blowing up with, one clip from the interview which you put out of him telling Clay that he wouldn’t consider RfK for VP, but he would consider him for head of, FDA or CDC should he be willing to serve an insane an absolutely insane view to put an anti vax person in there. So, yeah, talk talk about that.
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:26

    Okay. Well, I’ll tell you this. I posted that from a jail cell. So there you go. You probably haven’t had many guests — What?
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:33

    — who have said that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:35

    K. Wait. How does that work? You post that from a jail cell?
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:38

    I was in in the county jail, a couple hours ago, waiting to visit a client of mine on some very serious Charlie Sykes I was listening to that interview sitting in the holding cell waiting for my client’s screen record. And I posted it. It took a It took a long time for that to post inside the jail because, you know, it’s like not great service, internet service. But but it went through and and, you know, it actually posted while I was talking to my client in a jail cell.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:10

    That’s hilarious. See, that shows that he he still isn’t figuring out how to navigate this this two pronged problem that you’re talking about, right? Which is like, I need to get the meg of people, but I need to seem serious. And so I’m like, I’m gonna try to split the baby by saying, well, this crazy anti vaxxer, I wouldn’t make him VP, but I might put him in charge of vaccines, like, for the federal government. Like, what?
  • Speaker 4
    0:35:29

    Here’s the thing. Him and Trump and all the Republican candidates keep getting asked about Rfk junior because they know that the Magabase does love RfK junior, they absolutely do. If you monitor the right wing across multiple platforms It it’s been positive RfK junior stuff for three years now since COVID started. He’s been a full hero to them. So So these candidates keep getting asked about r f k and what they think of him and whether he would they would choose him as a running mate, So, yeah, DeSantis got the obligatory question.
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:04

    And typical DeSantis, he tries to find the middle way somehow to placate that base but he won’t go full crazy by saying he would choose him as a running mate. So instead he throws out this, I oh, we might choose him for CDC director. Now do I believe DeSantis would ever make RfK junior CDC director? No. It’s a clear pander.
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:26

    But I think what does his big what does the donor class think when they hear?
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:31

    I don’t know. Is is he really that much crazier than Lidopa or whatever that guy’s name is? Study name to search in general?
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:36

    That’s a good point. I mean, maybe you’re right. But what does the donor class think? The Republican donor class think when they hear he might make r f k junior, CDC director.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:47

    Like, do you understand the movement better than the Republican donor class does? Like, do you understand the movement? It was just yesterday, the national review was mad at the Bulwark because we were accusing them and other people on the right of basically being pro r f k junior and how the right wing media has become pro r f junior and and how, you know, even the more normal right wing media has has now tempers their criticism of him because the readers like him, and your observation is exactly like that the politicians have to pander to him because that’s what the movement is. The movement wants the anti vax Cook. Like, that’s what they want.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:24

    And and like the Nashville of you guys, like, don’t they don’t dain to live in the world that you live in and understand what’s really happening.
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:31

    Yeah. I mean, Trump and DeSantis are going at each other constantly over who was worse on COVID, and the worst one win.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:38

    Right.
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:39

    You know? I mean, who is more anti Fauci, who is more anti science, who is more throw everything open, wins in a Republican primary right now. You know? So him throwing out RfK junior sort of like ratchets it up on Trump. Now it’d be interesting to see if what Trump has to say about that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:57

    May and JBL have been saying Trump r f k is a leading contender for VP for a while now. An interesting development, like, you’re maybe the best person possible to ask about this question because it’s it’s tough for me to kind of gauge. Is there was a period where the mega influencer class was like pretty Ron DeSantis curious more so than really they were for anybody in twenty sixteen. Right? Like he was doing better among the ex Trump staffers who would become influencers like the Jenna Ellis of the world, the daily wire crowd, you know, that kind of the Magimmediate crowd, not Fox, you know, you know, and we know that he’s been good with Fox.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:37

    He kind of penetrated into the mega influencer in media world pretty well early. What are those people doing now? Is is that starting to dissipate or are they flailing? You know, what what’s your sense for for that?
  • Speaker 4
    0:38:52

    No. I mean, look, the flirtation was they’re looking for a successor to Trump eventually. I mean, they were all pretty strong, like, We love DeSantis. We think he’s great. We this was prior to him announcing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:04

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:04

    We think he’s great. We love him. We want him to run-in twenty twenty eight or we want him to be Trump’s running mate, which never happen, but we wanted to be Trump’s running mate or we wanted to run a twenty twenty eight. But that they all had the caveats. You know, but if he tries to run against Trump, then he’s being a disloyal piece of shit and we’re out.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:25

    So I think that he really, really fundamentally shot himself in the foot here. If he had just kept his mouth shut or back trump or whatever, he didn’t even not have to campaign for him. And just run-in twenty twenty eight. It just seems like everything was there for him. And in terms of being the heir apparent, I truly believe in not enough people have talked about this, I believe that Ron DeSantis is running against Donald Trump partially out of spite because Trump Jonathan Last reminds DeSantis and the public over and over Ron DeSantis would be nothing without Ron DeSantis would be working at a pizza hut without me, he said, or working at a fast food place.
  • Speaker 4
    0:40:07

    He’d be he’d be nowhere. He’d be nothing. I made him. And if you know Ron DeSantis personality, he cannot handle things like that. Look, Disney dared to criticize one of his policies and he’s dismantling a fifty year old, you know, precedent with them.
  • Speaker 4
    0:40:25

    So If you poke him, if you jab, look, he removed a state an elected state attorney because he said he wouldn’t arrest women for getting an abortion. I mean, that’s Ron DeSantis. So so I believe partially what’s behind DeSantis’s run is the fact that he is pissed off that Trump won’t leave him alone about the fact that he made him who he is today.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:47

    So you seem to dismiss my sense that there’s a little bit of vive ache momentum in the Magga world. You’re not feeling that.
  • Speaker 4
    0:40:53

    I think you know this if you look historically, that Republican presidential candidates of color always poll higher than their vote totals. And I think the reason for that is because Republicans who are talking to pollsters like to say you know, I like the black guy or I like the Indian guy or this Latino guy, but when they get in the voting booth, they don’t vote for him. Yeah. So and I think we’ve seen this with so many candidates, whether it’s Ben Carson or Larry Elder, time and time again, they pull better than their vote totals. And I think with Vivec look, I think part of it too is that the influencer clasp ignored him and didn’t pay much attention to him and lightly praised him But now he’s gotten their attention for the first time, and they’re turning on him now.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:42

    I saw the anti Hindu stuff just yesterday.
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:45

    They just posted a wrap, a wrap video that he did in college where he was doing M and M — Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:51

  • Speaker 4
    0:41:51

    on the stage. They just put that out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:53

    It was really bad. We might have to put we’ll put the video in the show notes for people. I I have to admit I clicked on that because I was intrigued. And I was hoping that he was gonna be good and was very offbeat. I think I could have done a better, lose yourself to karaoke than this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:07

    My expectations were not met. That’s all I wanna say.
  • Speaker 4
    0:42:10

    But he’s a guy who who’s been all over the place on the issues over the last fifteen years. And they’re starting to go dig that stuff up and put it out. You know how that works. I mean, They kind of ignored him for a while, but now they’re gonna train their guns on him and a lot of stuff’s gonna come out that is not good.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:26

    Yeah. This shows you where the Republican primary is, that the Santis is is worried about Vivig and Tim Scott on his heels as he should be. And so just in the last week, we’ve seen two pieces of APO come out. The APO on Vivig is that he’s tendu. Actually, and he’s not admitting it enough in Iowa.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:41

    He saw this in DeSantis world yesterday. And on Tim Scott, it was that he had a quote about, like, twenty years ago about how the Republican Party, like, didn’t understand the Bulwark experience and, like, He didn’t use the word systemic racism. I don’t I don’t have to quote in front of me, but it was, like, it was a synonym of systemic racism, really, that he was arguing about twenty years ago, and now you’re starting to see this quote pop up. And it’s like acknowledging that racism is a problem and not being a white evangelical Christian are the pieces of APO. Like that that tells you a lot about where the the state of play.
  • Speaker 4
    0:43:17

    You know, the guy to watch is Byron Donald’s in this discussion because he the congressman from Florida.
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:25

    But he was a guy that the Freedom caucus put up as a Patsy to be the speaker. You know, because — That’s
  • Speaker 4
    0:43:31

    right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:31

  • Speaker 3
    0:43:31

    they didn’t want McCarthy. And so they’re like, who do you who is your alternative? And they’re like, oh, we’re gonna put up Byron Donald’s and you know, not so subtly bring up the fact that, you know, we’re also nominating a black man and we’re not racist anyway. So there was that element to it. But anyway, go ahead.
  • Speaker 4
    0:43:45

    I think the Maga Movement has embraced him as somebody, you know, in Congress that’s a person of color more than anybody else. They love byron Donald’s. I cannot find any person the Magam Movement who doesn’t like him. And they all wanted to be Trump’s running mate. Now I don’t think that that necessarily works.
  • Speaker 4
    0:44:04

    I mean, there’s some electoral college issues when you’re from the same state, which I’m sure you know, you know, it can present an issue. He’s also really young. He’s very young. I don’t think he will be, but I mean, he’s he’s definitely a rising star to keep an eye on and somebody who is universally liked in the movement Tim Scott, on the other hand no. I mean, they they don’t take Tim Scott seriously.
  • Speaker 4
    0:44:26

    He’s a guy that they think he’s a decent guy. He’s a nice guy. They like him. They respect his background, but they’re not gonna vote for them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:32

    What else are you watching? One thing I don’t do is I don’t truth social. I just I don’t wanna have it on my phone. I don’t care. But occasionally, I see Trump’s crazy bleats come across my screen.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:42

    Sometimes from you, like, what’s something that that people who are not in that world might not realize far as kind of the messaging they’re starting to employ or, you know, some latest crazy conspiracy theory, anything that’s caught your eye.
  • Speaker 4
    0:44:54

    Yeah. I mean, the Hunter Biden stuff I’ve been following since, you know, Rudy first rolled it out in twenty twenty. I saw all of it back then, and I saw all this hundred the laptop stuff and all these platforms. And my advice has always been the same to Democrats, which is, you know, please do not try and defend Hunter Biden. You know, Hunter Biden did a lot of bad stuff, did a lot of shady stuff.
  • Speaker 4
    0:45:18

    He was out of his mind on drugs, He clearly was using at that time his father’s name to get money. And I don’t think that Joe knew about it. I don’t think that Joe was involved in any way, but Hunter clearly that was his game. And so I don’t like when Democrats go out of their way to sort of defend Hunter Biden because they just don’t know the truth about a lot of the crap that he was doing. So I think that what Democrats’ energy needs to be is focused on separating Joe from Hunter, even though for whatever reason, Joe will not allow that to happen physically, He continues to have hunter at the White House and around him, which drives me crazy right now.
  • Speaker 4
    0:46:04

    I don’t think that that’s good optics in the middle of trying to run for reelection. But I get that he’s a son, but I just don’t think he should be in the White House. But this star witness that they’ve been hyping for months and months and months This was the third time he was supposed to testify. Was this past Monday, and he backed out again. And this is the guy who was supposedly hunter’s business partner.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:24

    Devin, whatever?
  • Speaker 4
    0:46:25

    Yeah. Who overheard a phone call where Hunter put his dad on speaker phone with someone in Ukraine.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:32

    Yeah. This story is such a nothing. So I I’m pretty diligent about reading all the hunter stories because I wanna know. I don’t wanna be out there making our it’s not true. I agree with you.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:40

    I think Hunter’s done a lot of bad shady stuff and You know, it it’s always best to have full information awareness, you know, of vulnerabilities. And, you know, if Biden did something that he shouldn’t have, I I’ll say it. But this phone call story, it’s, like, Devin Archer is a guy named. Just came to me. It’s, like, it’s nothing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:56

    Right. Even on face value, like, This might not be true. Right? But, like, even if this guy’s claim is true. It’s like Hunter is in Ukraine with some oligarchs at Burisma.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:07

    And Devin Archer is there. And he says a hunter calls his dad and puts him on speaker phone. And he’s like, hey, dad. I’m here with you know, Oleg and whatever. And Joe’s like, yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:18

    Great. Hey. Good to, you know, good to see you, Jack. Like, and like then he hangs up. Like, that’s the story.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:25

    And it’s like, okay. I mean, to me,
  • Speaker 4
    0:47:26

    the best case scenario.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:28

    Yeah. It’s like, yeah. It’s like, okay. Great. You know, dad answers son’s phone call and, like, gives nice pleasantries.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:36

    And then, like, they hang up It’s like, that’s what you got. That’s I was like, come back to you and you got something better. I think that they’re gonna really go after this daughter. Well, here’s what go ahead.
  • Speaker 4
    0:47:45

    All the information that they have is whether it’s emails, text messages, whatever, phone calls is is all hunter bragging about how much influence he has over his dad. Right. The problem is you never have anything proving that he ever did have any
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:01

    info. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:48:02

    You never have anything back from Joe saying Yes, son. I will do this for you — Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:08

  • Speaker 4
    0:48:08

    to help out your business partner. Like, there’s none there is that disconnect.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:13

    Drug level grifter, like, brags about influence. Right. It’s like, okay. Great.
  • Speaker 4
    0:48:17

    Brags about his dad to get money. So what? I mean, okay, hundreds of pieces of shit. Okay. So what?
  • Speaker 4
    0:48:23

    Who cares? You know?
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:25

    Alright, brother. Well, do you have any glimmers of hope for wanna shut this thing down. Anything that, you know, should make us feel good about Joe Biden reelect or about, you know, the the crazy burning itself out. Like, eventually, it’s gotta be, like, one of those I’m not an astrologist. So I don’t know what kind of stars they are.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:43

    Like, one of those hot stars that just, like, eventually burns themselves out and become a black hole. Like, that’s eventually gonna happen in this world. Right?
  • Speaker 4
    0:48:50

    Yeah. January sixth indictment in the Georgia indictment. You know, I mean, I know we all talk about it, and I know a lot of Democrats pin all their hopes on the criminal prosecutions. You know, to be the solution, the final answer to Trump. And and I feel the same way too.
  • Speaker 4
    0:49:05

    I mean, I just think, like, You have to ignore all the noise, all the crying, all the screaming of election interference from Congress, from the grassroots, from around the country. Cause I mean, what we both know is A lot of those people who are out there publicly, you know, crying about it secretly, they’re happy — Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:24

  • Speaker 4
    0:49:24

    that Jack Smith and Merrick Garland are gonna rid them of their Donald Trump problem. Because think about it as a Republican poll. The ideal scenario is for, like, DeSantis to be out there railing against Jack Smith and condemning Merrick Garland for this these horrible political prosecutions while at the same time going home and saying, isn’t this great? You know, they’re taking out Trump for us because they don’t have the guts to stand up to trump themselves. So they want the Democrats to take him out.
  • Speaker 4
    0:49:54

    That’s what they’re doing. You know, so the glimmer of hope to me are these criminal prosecutions which I think will be the end of Trump. I really do.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:02

    That’s a good place to end it, Ron, Philipkowski. It’s been such an honor. I’m so happy you decide send in that video after a few days of rumination. I still feel like I owe your wife one because had you decided not to send it you know, maybe maybe you wouldn’t be looking both ways when you open the car door in, in Michael Flynn Country. So I’m, very grateful.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:21

    People can follow you, Ron, Philkowski on Twitter at if they don’t already, which, you know, I’m sure, most folks do, and we’ll keep this conversation going with Kelly Clarkson of Arvat. Ronald Philip Kaus Thanks so much for doing this.
  • Speaker 4
    0:50:34

    Thank you, Tim. Thanks for inviting me. Alright.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:35

    I appreciate you, man. We’ll be back on Wednesday with the next level. I’ve got I’ve got a good one coming next Sunday for you as well. So, make sure to head back to the Bork dot com. Sign up for our newsletters.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:47

    Head over. Listen to Charlie on the on the main feed. I’ll be back with him next Friday. And, we’ll be doing this all over again. Peace.