it's impressive how despite all the evidence to the contrary, chuck schumer continues to talk as if the ancien regime still had any meaning; i suppose it's something about old dogs and new tricks, but these completely pro forma empty statements about bipartisanship, once a staple of political dialogue, just sound insane in the age of trump.
Trump may not believe in bipartisan work for the good of the People, but the rest of us do. Schumer is not wrong to hold that up as the ideal to work toward, in spite of knowing Donald will never, never let anyone take centre stage but himself. As in nixing a perfectly sensible bipartisan immigration bill so he could run on stoking immigration lies and fears. Note he did not resurrect that much-needed bill post election. It would have meant sharing the limelight.
In short, the faults here lie squarely with the Trumpers and the GOP.
You can't work in a bipartisan manner with an opponent who will not act in good faith. You cannot work with an authoritarian regime in a bipartisan manner
For many reasons, you must try. Right off the top, what choice do you have when you do not hold the balance of power? In these situations, where one party is dealing in bad faith, no intention at all of doing the work they are supposed to do, the temptation is to be as bad, as uncivilized as they are. Doesn't get you anything and they laugh at you.
Set the proper tone and let the GOP fail....then relentlessly hold them to account for that failure.
You don't need to be just as bad as the other side, but you don't beg to have a seat at the table to legitimize them! You say, "You have not given me a single reason to trust you, the last time we negotiated you didn't uphold half your end of the bargain and what you did do you retroactively undid, so you can do this without my support. Good luck." That is the proper tone. That outlines the history and what has been done. This isn't a time for bipartisanship. There is a pro-democracy, pro-America side and an authoritarian side. You cannot compromise with them, they will not allow it.
I completely disagree! Respectfully, what have you accomplished? Your opponent can now say you are impossible to please and refuse to bargain in good faith..."they didn't even try, the cowards...they know their demands are ridiculous". That leaves you open for all kinds of corrosive messaging. You also fail to model how responsible government should look...an exchange of ideas resulting in a compromise that is intended to benefit the citizenry.
It is *always* time for bipartisanship. The fault lies not with those who choose to take adult, composed, responsible measures, but those who both refuse to use those measures, who sweep the pieces off the board and say "my way or the highway" and vilify any possible action you take...actions taken in the interest of the citizenry.
Compromise may not be on the table. It is not on the Trump table, that we know. But unless you are seen to attempt to follow the sane rules of engagement, you have nothing at all. You may fail...with this admin you WILL fail. But you cannot let them knock you off your pins. You need to keep working for the betterment of the people.
What did we get out of the last shutdown negotiation? The DC funding never came up in the House and what "compromises" did happen were quickly rescinded. What bipartisan compromises did the GOP make with their big spending bill, knowing they were going to need Democrat votes to raise the debt ceiling? That's right, none. We need to face the facts that the GOP hasn't been interested in bipartisan governing since at least the Tea Party. They don't give, they don't negotiate. They take and they take and they take.
You say that the GOP would claim that Democrats "aren't acting in good faith and are impossible to please.", but Schumer and Jeffries embarrassed themselves begging for a bipartisan that would literally save the Republican voters from the people they elected, and they're still saying that! Heck, the HUD website had a pop up and a huge banner declaring that before the shutdown even began!
What bipartisan compromises should we be making with the people who want to send random people to foreign torture prisons (including citizens), think the executive can spend money how they want and fire whoever they want, who thinks that the military can kill whoever they want, and also wants to use the military against their political opponents? What "betterment for the people" can be accomplished while this is happening? What wins do we hand them?
Bravo. Finally, a realistic assessment of how best to deal with a intransigent and fundamentally dishonest political leadership. It is not a sign of weakness to ask for a White House Meeting, as Schumer and Jeffries did when you know perfectly well that nothing is going to come of it. It simply sets the proper tone, makes it impossible for the White House to legitimately claim that the Democrats caused the shut down, and places the burden on making concessions to get the Government back up and running where it belongs. The Democrats are not in the majority in the House and the Senate but they surely are in the majority when it comes to correcting the evils of the Big Bad Bill. So, stick to the merits which is something that THIS Administration of Dipsh#$ts never has done
Of course that's where fault lies, what i'm talking about is messaging and impact. Democratic voters are desperate for signs of active resistance to trumpism, not pointless encomiums to a bipartisan past that has disintegrated in the face of trump and his gop enablers.
I think Democratic party supporters/those who disapprove of Trump's bid for dictatorship all want the same thing: loud fingerpointing.
I disagree that there is not a rule of order in politics. There is at least an adherence to the law and the Constitution. The problem we have is that Trump and his cabal of fanatics realized that if you break all the rules, folks will be so stunned you can get away with anything before the courts catch you up....and the GOP seeded the Supreme Court not with just right wing justices, but corrupt justices. There is a big difference between "conservative" and "lawless".
There is great peril in this moment. But it is not yet time to abandon the law, in spite of the abuses of this "administration". I agree that time may come. But it is not now.
who's talking about abandoing law? i'm simply saying that i think the messaging right now needs to be resistance, not bipartisanship with people who have made it perfectly clear they despise not only bipartisanship but democrats in general.
Schumer and Jeffries are absolutely terrible communicators; it is so hard to believe that House and Senate Democrats looked at their respective memberships and thought “these are the best people to sell the electorate a winning 2026 election strategy.” They are the absolute pits. Jeffries is the anthropomorphic personification of a focus group and if he has ever had an original thought that was spoken without being poll tested I’ll eat my hat. Throw them over and put people of vision in their places.
here is the problem: since we don't have a parliamentary system, we don't have a "leader of the opposition." schumer and jeffries weren't selected to be the best people to sell the electorate anything; they were picked because their caucuses trusted them to keep things organized, which is, after all, their actual job!
here's a thought exercise: what minority leaders can you think of that were the best people to sell the electorate anything?
which isn't to say that they are good communicators or that your critique in that regard isn't on the money, it's just that the problem is structural, not down to two specific personalities.
That is a very fair point (your thought exercise). McConnell and McCarthy were a good pair in the minority from 21-22. But they had the advantage of Trump providing them with constant talking points.
True, but "Independents" who are the fastest growing "party," say they want both sides to negotiate and compromise. So its not useless for Democrats to make gestures in that direction. Plus, the only possible solution here is a compromise. Schumer has no power, but has enough to push his agenda.
I was against a shutdown because I know the Democrats will take the blame. On the other hand, maybe having Republican voters feel the pain on the ACA subsidies will cause a few to reevaluate their priorities. At this point, I'm all in on a shutdown.
I think the frustrating because there are a number of ways Dem leadership could've approached this that wouldn't have taken direct ownership of a shutdown. Heck, I've heard multiple people here on the Bulwark outline them! I like to imagine that Schumer and Jeffries have better things to do than listen to the Bulwark all day, but clearly they don't! They've begged Trump to meet with them and the big communication push as Trump is calling the military to invade cities is "use 'because' when you go talk to the press about how Democrats are about to shut down the government, not 'unless'". They're doing everything they can to own it, all so they can save Republican voters from the people they keep voting for!
I don't know how any of them could vote for it after this last month.
But why do you think the right wing information space won't find a way to blame the Ds on ACA issues--and basically any bad thing that happens to the government or economy?
Right says "black" and Left says "white"-->large number of Americans don't know who to believe. As a result, large numbers of Americans don't blame Trump and Rs for the problems that will likely occur involving government and the economy.
If "giving in" = keeping the government open and "fighting back as loud as you can" = shutting it down and blaming Trump/Rs loudly--I think this is a false choice.
I get the frustration of allowing the gov't to stay open--but shutting down could send be a life-saver for Trump and Rs....There are two plausible ways of defeating Trump:
1. A handful of congressional Rs, former/current Trump officials, and/or right wing media folks speak out against Trump. You're probably smirking at that, so let's go to scenario #2.
2. A lot of bad things happen in the country--because of Trump and Rs actions in government. Another pandemic hits, the economy tanks, a natural disaster strikes and FEMA is inept...etc. etc. This is the hot stove theory.
If Ds shutdown gov't and then one or move these bad things happen, Trump and the right wing machine with blame this on Ds shutting down the gov't. D's can loudly protest, but Trump et al will respond just as loudly. As a result, many inattentive voters are confused--they don't know what to believe. And many end up not really blaming Trump and Rs.
i guess i just do not understand which alternative you are saying they should do or what third alternative there is. i apologize, i guess i'm just not following.
I guess I just don't think anything will work at this point. The half the voters inthe country favor the Rs (Trump's approval rating has actually ticked up recently), the courts are too slow and/or biased in favor of executive power and the Dem leadership is feckless. What's left except to just say no (quoting Nancy Reagan)?
What's left to do? First, do everything to insure that voters understand and believe that many bad outcomes came from Trump and Rs. Don't do anything to weaken or blur that link. I think this is critical.
Second, I think Ds can vigorously urge Rs, conservative pundits, former/current Trump officials to speak out against Trump's un-American/authoritarian actions/rhetoric. Make a case for why no president should behave this way. Exert as much pressure on these groups to join Ds.
I hear you but IMHO I don't think these strategies will work. 1/2 of the voters already voters understand and believe that many bad outcomes came from Trump and Rs.The other half just deny it (listen to some of Sarah's most recent FGs if you doubt that). Most Rs, conservative pundits, former/current Trump officials refuse to cross Trump, whether because deep down they share his autocratic nature, love that it's payback time for them, or are scared of Trump retribution. I'm a centrist like you. I wasn;t in favor of a shutdown because I know the Republicans will blame the Dems, and the ignorant/biased Trump voters will believe the lies. At this point I just want to fight and show some backbone and go down swinging.
I don't agree with the notion of 2 groups of voters. I think there are 3: strong supporters of Trump; strong opponents of Trump and voters who are neither. My sense is that the third group is the largest--and the least engaged with politics and attentive to news. I believe these voters don't know a lot of what's going on and/or they really don't know what to believe is true.
D's have to reach these voters--get them to see the link between bad outcomes and Trump/R's actions. I fear that the shutdown will now allow Trump/Rs to muddy the waters for these folks. Additionally, I'm worried that some of these voters will just feel frustration with the shutdown and blame both sides.
As to the Rs, conservative pundits, et al.---I believe there are those who know what Trump is doing is completely un-American/authoritarian. Ds should really try to activate their consciences and make them feel pressure to do the right thing. In Congress, a few Rs would make a huge difference.
I don't pretend to think this is such an easy path. It's not. But I don't see other good alternatives.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I agree there are 3 groups, but IMHO that 3d group is the smallest. Sadly, after listening to too many of Sarah's FGs and reading too many pieces about "swing" voters I've concluded that group is too ignorant, self-interested, greivanced and/or biased to be swayed from their Orange Strong Man.They will drone on about "they/them" while their rural hospitals are gutted and their Medicaid is taken away. They are, quite frankly, beyond redemption. I agree with you that there are conservative pundits et al. that probably, deep in their self-interested hearts, know "what Trump is doing is completely un-American/authoritarian." But they will remain silent.
Honestly, this government has been shut down since January, hollowing out every federal agency in a lawless takeover. A REAL government shut down might actually stop the takeover. I'm all in on a shutdown. STOP THE MADNESS.
Schumer is lost in a political era that died in November of 2016. I would hope that if I was so hapless as he, I would have the insight to realize it, and step down. Ya know, for the good of the country. You remember the country, right Chucky?
Schumer is an old fool. Asking Trump for a meeting betrayed weakness. Trump and congressional lackeys need votes. Chucky could have said “You need votes huh? We want something first. Other than that, I ain’t got shit to say to you and your flunkies. Call my office if you wanna talk. Adios!”
Schumer thinks voters still give a rat’s ass about bipartisanship. I’m not sure if he’s stupid and out of touch or just complicit. Either way, I hope AOC runs against him and destroys him when he’s up for reelection.
Oh piffle. Schumer is correct to continue to ask for bipartisanship, and measures that benefit the citizenry. It is not his fault that Trump does not do cooperation, only domination.
Trump cannot agree to anything that walks back anything in the big fleecing bill. He would see that as weakness, or admitting he was wrong. Not gonna happen.
The Democrats are asking for reasonable concessions. Trump refuses. Shut it down.
Democrats need to remember that their supporters melt away when they appear to fold.
Trump/MAGA/GOP do not do bipartisanship. At all. Donald cannot bear to share the limelight. So any deal that benefits the electorate is impossible for him to agree to.
Shut it down. Talk loud, proud and in everyday vernacular about why it happened and whose fault it is.
You are mis-stating the case. "The leadership" does not want to sit down and negotiate whether the military should turn on the citizenry: they have clearly stated they are opposed to that and many other of the Trump/GOP overreaches.
They would like to negotiate for keeping the health care budgets Trump axed in his big fleecing bill.
Sure, but they are trying to negotiate on the one to fund the other. That isn't their goal, obviously, but that is the effect. It feels like a totally reasonable ask of leadership to say there are certain lines that if the other side cross you don't give them money.
Negotiations haven't 'broken down.' Instead, Trump doesn't want and has no capacity to negotiate anything he can't control. The limp dick House Speaker is manipulating the House so as to block votes and discussion. How the GOP think this is a winning strategy is unconditionally beyond me. How the GOP think that knocking millions of Americans off of health care roles - many of whom are their own voters - while dramatically jacking up the cost of health insurance for most others is a winning strategy is also beyond me. How they think this will end the demand for the Epstein Files or that bringing an entire nation down in the attempt to do so is ok is delusional
The media keeps focusing on Trump’s still dropping poll numbers across this nation in about every category while simultaneously losing interest in the Epstein Files. The media presents poll numbers as if Trump - and Trump’s handlers from Russell Vought to Stephen Miller - give a damn. They don’t.
Trump is done this time around and is nothing but an idiot front for the violent Christian Nationalist of Project 2025. Vought and those so aligned which includes Pete KEGseth and JD Vance want to have a point of control by the time Trump leaves the White House. They don’t give a rat’s ass about poll numbers - just cementing their control as best they can.
At the batshit crazy meeting today with hundreds of Generals and Admirals, Trump talked about himself along, more notably, with the ‘enemy within’ meaning Democrats, Democratic controlled cities and states and anybody else not on board. There was no discussion about foreign or military policy; nothing about China or Russia. Instead, we heard about grooming, exercise and ‘fat generals.’ Trump talked about using Blue cities as ‘training’ grounds for the National Guard and our military
KEGseth also launched another direct attack on the women in our military. The entire shitshow at Quantico was not for the convened officers who had to leave their day jobs many traveling thousands of miles with their most senior enlisted staff to be insulted and demeaned by their ‘president’ and incompetent, unqualified Secretary of Defense. This dog and pony show was for Trump’s whacked #MAGA voters and, more importantly, Project 2025’s fundamentalist and Seven Mountain base.
The Seven Mountains mandate is from the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) which seeks unconditional control over:
1. Religion
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government (to include our military)
5. Media
6. Arts and entertainment
7. Business
The NAR is far more deeply embedded in DC and the GOP Congress than most citizens are aware. I encourage those not familiar with the NAR to check them out a bit further. Their strength and influence, which was already substantial, exponentially increased on January 20th.
It is THEY, along with White Nationalist Christian Nationalist groups to include the proud boys and sovereign citizens (among many others) who are primary members of the true ‘enemy within.’
And the psychopath who shot up a Mormon church this past Sunday in Michigan then torched it before being taken down by police was yet another violent #MAGA/Trump supporter
We'll see what happens with a shut down. Dems may not be the best messengers, but so far sticking to their point about needing health care funded. This is on Republicans - they have House, Oval, and Senate. Dems have made an effort to work on it. The Republicans - who control it all - have not. They don't care about health care for our fellow citizens. Tell the story that way.
Every article I've read lately has had some allusion to Trump not being aware of what is happening. He's completely non compos mentis. I'd say the country is being run by Grampa Simpson, but that's an insult to Grampa Simpson.
For the first time this year, they have leverage to honor the base's pleading that they do something, do anything. And they've done everything they can to pass the hot potato instead of striking while the iron is hot.
Stick to ACA subsidies. Shut it down. Make the Republicans negotiate. They insisted on power politics, and now they need you. So give them a taste of them power politics.
Except that 90% of those money begs are just some scam PAC that grifts you harder than a TPUSA alum. ACT Blue needs to do a lot better at vetting the orgs using their platform.
I am. Just not to Dems. Yet. Mediocre is not good. I've given thousands in past years. Project 2025 caught the Dems by surprise! It's certainly nihilistic of me to give money to food banks, battered women's shelters and PBS. Give your judgment of me a rest.
Project 2025 caught no one by surprise. It was up on the internet for all to see, and was mentioned often during the lead up to and during the campaign. The problem is, voters failed to skim through it. I did, and it was horrifying.
I too am tired of being asked for donations. It never ends.
Forgive my impatience. I am tired of people complaining that the Democratic party is not "doing enough", didn't do enough in the past etc. etc.
Believe me, I am sick of Trump. I have Trump PTSD from his first, lamentable admin. I am deeply afraid at how fast he and his cabal of fanatics have torn apart the fabric of your country, upended global trade, and laid the USA bare to its enemies.
Trump is a cancer on the body politic. He invites us to be our least selves, so he can enrich himself at will.
But what alternative is there but to rally behind those Democrats, state and federal, who seek to oppose him and his ideology?
Do I want them to just get elected and let things go back to how they were? No, your country needs its democracy strengthened and protected. You have all been asleep at the switch for too long. But elected they must be to forge a path back to civility, normality, peace, security and prosperity.
Picking holes in the party for the perfidy of Trump is counter-productive.
Nobody's saying we shouldn't rally behind the Democrats. What people are asking is: do the Democrats currently have the right leadership/ So far the indications are that they don't, and they need to course-correct with a leadership change before the midterms. Maybe this shutdown fight will change my mind.
It's just as well not to give, most of your money goes, not to GOTV efforts or voter education, but to line the pockets of the consultants and pollsters whose hideously tin-eared advice has turned the Democratic Party into, potentially, a permanent irrelevancy.
Donald Trump has set up this impasse by all but declaring the Democratic Party a terrorist organization, and you don’t negotiate with terrorists. Republicans have shown themselves to be dishonorable, duplicitous people who renege on agreements and don’t bargain in good faith. Norms and “regular order” are not backed up with actual law; they are tissue paper.
"Republicans control all 3 branches of the government, if they can't figure out how to fund it, that's their fault."
There you go Chuck and Hakeem I did it for you. Every Democrat should be in front of a camera saying this till they are blue in the face. The Health Care fight is a good one but maybe not everyone cares or gets it. Saying the above, gets right to the core of general Republican incompetence in a way everyone understands. Not sure why this is so hard.
it's impressive how despite all the evidence to the contrary, chuck schumer continues to talk as if the ancien regime still had any meaning; i suppose it's something about old dogs and new tricks, but these completely pro forma empty statements about bipartisanship, once a staple of political dialogue, just sound insane in the age of trump.
I was just reading about how Qanon Shaman is suing Trump for $40,000,000 and claiming that he is the rightful president.
He seems more in touch with reality than Schumer.
Trump may not believe in bipartisan work for the good of the People, but the rest of us do. Schumer is not wrong to hold that up as the ideal to work toward, in spite of knowing Donald will never, never let anyone take centre stage but himself. As in nixing a perfectly sensible bipartisan immigration bill so he could run on stoking immigration lies and fears. Note he did not resurrect that much-needed bill post election. It would have meant sharing the limelight.
In short, the faults here lie squarely with the Trumpers and the GOP.
You can't work in a bipartisan manner with an opponent who will not act in good faith. You cannot work with an authoritarian regime in a bipartisan manner
For many reasons, you must try. Right off the top, what choice do you have when you do not hold the balance of power? In these situations, where one party is dealing in bad faith, no intention at all of doing the work they are supposed to do, the temptation is to be as bad, as uncivilized as they are. Doesn't get you anything and they laugh at you.
Set the proper tone and let the GOP fail....then relentlessly hold them to account for that failure.
You don't need to be just as bad as the other side, but you don't beg to have a seat at the table to legitimize them! You say, "You have not given me a single reason to trust you, the last time we negotiated you didn't uphold half your end of the bargain and what you did do you retroactively undid, so you can do this without my support. Good luck." That is the proper tone. That outlines the history and what has been done. This isn't a time for bipartisanship. There is a pro-democracy, pro-America side and an authoritarian side. You cannot compromise with them, they will not allow it.
love it holmes im with you
I completely disagree! Respectfully, what have you accomplished? Your opponent can now say you are impossible to please and refuse to bargain in good faith..."they didn't even try, the cowards...they know their demands are ridiculous". That leaves you open for all kinds of corrosive messaging. You also fail to model how responsible government should look...an exchange of ideas resulting in a compromise that is intended to benefit the citizenry.
It is *always* time for bipartisanship. The fault lies not with those who choose to take adult, composed, responsible measures, but those who both refuse to use those measures, who sweep the pieces off the board and say "my way or the highway" and vilify any possible action you take...actions taken in the interest of the citizenry.
Compromise may not be on the table. It is not on the Trump table, that we know. But unless you are seen to attempt to follow the sane rules of engagement, you have nothing at all. You may fail...with this admin you WILL fail. But you cannot let them knock you off your pins. You need to keep working for the betterment of the people.
What did we get out of the last shutdown negotiation? The DC funding never came up in the House and what "compromises" did happen were quickly rescinded. What bipartisan compromises did the GOP make with their big spending bill, knowing they were going to need Democrat votes to raise the debt ceiling? That's right, none. We need to face the facts that the GOP hasn't been interested in bipartisan governing since at least the Tea Party. They don't give, they don't negotiate. They take and they take and they take.
You say that the GOP would claim that Democrats "aren't acting in good faith and are impossible to please.", but Schumer and Jeffries embarrassed themselves begging for a bipartisan that would literally save the Republican voters from the people they elected, and they're still saying that! Heck, the HUD website had a pop up and a huge banner declaring that before the shutdown even began!
What bipartisan compromises should we be making with the people who want to send random people to foreign torture prisons (including citizens), think the executive can spend money how they want and fire whoever they want, who thinks that the military can kill whoever they want, and also wants to use the military against their political opponents? What "betterment for the people" can be accomplished while this is happening? What wins do we hand them?
Bravo. Finally, a realistic assessment of how best to deal with a intransigent and fundamentally dishonest political leadership. It is not a sign of weakness to ask for a White House Meeting, as Schumer and Jeffries did when you know perfectly well that nothing is going to come of it. It simply sets the proper tone, makes it impossible for the White House to legitimately claim that the Democrats caused the shut down, and places the burden on making concessions to get the Government back up and running where it belongs. The Democrats are not in the majority in the House and the Senate but they surely are in the majority when it comes to correcting the evils of the Big Bad Bill. So, stick to the merits which is something that THIS Administration of Dipsh#$ts never has done
I feel like we need a new Larry David op-ed piece here called "We must try to work with hitler"
And that is what worries me. Hitler/Trump/GOP/Project 2025...fanatics cannot be worked with. Compromise is not possible.
Much depends on the midterms. If they happen, and are free, fair, and verified accurately counted.
Of course that's where fault lies, what i'm talking about is messaging and impact. Democratic voters are desperate for signs of active resistance to trumpism, not pointless encomiums to a bipartisan past that has disintegrated in the face of trump and his gop enablers.
You do the right thing, let them do the wrong thing and then let your constituents know who caused the terrible outcomes.
It is communicating that message, who let the people down and how badly, that needs to be done in plain, everyday vernacular.
I'm sorry, this is a complete misreading of what dem voters want: there is no roberts rules of order in politics.
I think Democratic party supporters/those who disapprove of Trump's bid for dictatorship all want the same thing: loud fingerpointing.
I disagree that there is not a rule of order in politics. There is at least an adherence to the law and the Constitution. The problem we have is that Trump and his cabal of fanatics realized that if you break all the rules, folks will be so stunned you can get away with anything before the courts catch you up....and the GOP seeded the Supreme Court not with just right wing justices, but corrupt justices. There is a big difference between "conservative" and "lawless".
There is great peril in this moment. But it is not yet time to abandon the law, in spite of the abuses of this "administration". I agree that time may come. But it is not now.
who's talking about abandoing law? i'm simply saying that i think the messaging right now needs to be resistance, not bipartisanship with people who have made it perfectly clear they despise not only bipartisanship but democrats in general.
Schumer and Jeffries are absolutely terrible communicators; it is so hard to believe that House and Senate Democrats looked at their respective memberships and thought “these are the best people to sell the electorate a winning 2026 election strategy.” They are the absolute pits. Jeffries is the anthropomorphic personification of a focus group and if he has ever had an original thought that was spoken without being poll tested I’ll eat my hat. Throw them over and put people of vision in their places.
here is the problem: since we don't have a parliamentary system, we don't have a "leader of the opposition." schumer and jeffries weren't selected to be the best people to sell the electorate anything; they were picked because their caucuses trusted them to keep things organized, which is, after all, their actual job!
here's a thought exercise: what minority leaders can you think of that were the best people to sell the electorate anything?
which isn't to say that they are good communicators or that your critique in that regard isn't on the money, it's just that the problem is structural, not down to two specific personalities.
That is a very fair point (your thought exercise). McConnell and McCarthy were a good pair in the minority from 21-22. But they had the advantage of Trump providing them with constant talking points.
Insane, or weirdly subversive.
True, but "Independents" who are the fastest growing "party," say they want both sides to negotiate and compromise. So its not useless for Democrats to make gestures in that direction. Plus, the only possible solution here is a compromise. Schumer has no power, but has enough to push his agenda.
I was against a shutdown because I know the Democrats will take the blame. On the other hand, maybe having Republican voters feel the pain on the ACA subsidies will cause a few to reevaluate their priorities. At this point, I'm all in on a shutdown.
I think the frustrating because there are a number of ways Dem leadership could've approached this that wouldn't have taken direct ownership of a shutdown. Heck, I've heard multiple people here on the Bulwark outline them! I like to imagine that Schumer and Jeffries have better things to do than listen to the Bulwark all day, but clearly they don't! They've begged Trump to meet with them and the big communication push as Trump is calling the military to invade cities is "use 'because' when you go talk to the press about how Democrats are about to shut down the government, not 'unless'". They're doing everything they can to own it, all so they can save Republican voters from the people they keep voting for!
I don't know how any of them could vote for it after this last month.
But why do you think the right wing information space won't find a way to blame the Ds on ACA issues--and basically any bad thing that happens to the government or economy?
who cares what the right says. the left hs a plaform too. use it
Right says "black" and Left says "white"-->large number of Americans don't know who to believe. As a result, large numbers of Americans don't blame Trump and Rs for the problems that will likely occur involving government and the economy.
of course. so there are two choices. give in or fight backas loud as you can
If "giving in" = keeping the government open and "fighting back as loud as you can" = shutting it down and blaming Trump/Rs loudly--I think this is a false choice.
I get the frustration of allowing the gov't to stay open--but shutting down could send be a life-saver for Trump and Rs....There are two plausible ways of defeating Trump:
1. A handful of congressional Rs, former/current Trump officials, and/or right wing media folks speak out against Trump. You're probably smirking at that, so let's go to scenario #2.
2. A lot of bad things happen in the country--because of Trump and Rs actions in government. Another pandemic hits, the economy tanks, a natural disaster strikes and FEMA is inept...etc. etc. This is the hot stove theory.
If Ds shutdown gov't and then one or move these bad things happen, Trump and the right wing machine with blame this on Ds shutting down the gov't. D's can loudly protest, but Trump et al will respond just as loudly. As a result, many inattentive voters are confused--they don't know what to believe. And many end up not really blaming Trump and Rs.
i guess i just do not understand which alternative you are saying they should do or what third alternative there is. i apologize, i guess i'm just not following.
I guess I just don't think anything will work at this point. The half the voters inthe country favor the Rs (Trump's approval rating has actually ticked up recently), the courts are too slow and/or biased in favor of executive power and the Dem leadership is feckless. What's left except to just say no (quoting Nancy Reagan)?
What's left to do? First, do everything to insure that voters understand and believe that many bad outcomes came from Trump and Rs. Don't do anything to weaken or blur that link. I think this is critical.
Second, I think Ds can vigorously urge Rs, conservative pundits, former/current Trump officials to speak out against Trump's un-American/authoritarian actions/rhetoric. Make a case for why no president should behave this way. Exert as much pressure on these groups to join Ds.
I hear you but IMHO I don't think these strategies will work. 1/2 of the voters already voters understand and believe that many bad outcomes came from Trump and Rs.The other half just deny it (listen to some of Sarah's most recent FGs if you doubt that). Most Rs, conservative pundits, former/current Trump officials refuse to cross Trump, whether because deep down they share his autocratic nature, love that it's payback time for them, or are scared of Trump retribution. I'm a centrist like you. I wasn;t in favor of a shutdown because I know the Republicans will blame the Dems, and the ignorant/biased Trump voters will believe the lies. At this point I just want to fight and show some backbone and go down swinging.
I don't agree with the notion of 2 groups of voters. I think there are 3: strong supporters of Trump; strong opponents of Trump and voters who are neither. My sense is that the third group is the largest--and the least engaged with politics and attentive to news. I believe these voters don't know a lot of what's going on and/or they really don't know what to believe is true.
D's have to reach these voters--get them to see the link between bad outcomes and Trump/R's actions. I fear that the shutdown will now allow Trump/Rs to muddy the waters for these folks. Additionally, I'm worried that some of these voters will just feel frustration with the shutdown and blame both sides.
As to the Rs, conservative pundits, et al.---I believe there are those who know what Trump is doing is completely un-American/authoritarian. Ds should really try to activate their consciences and make them feel pressure to do the right thing. In Congress, a few Rs would make a huge difference.
I don't pretend to think this is such an easy path. It's not. But I don't see other good alternatives.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I agree there are 3 groups, but IMHO that 3d group is the smallest. Sadly, after listening to too many of Sarah's FGs and reading too many pieces about "swing" voters I've concluded that group is too ignorant, self-interested, greivanced and/or biased to be swayed from their Orange Strong Man.They will drone on about "they/them" while their rural hospitals are gutted and their Medicaid is taken away. They are, quite frankly, beyond redemption. I agree with you that there are conservative pundits et al. that probably, deep in their self-interested hearts, know "what Trump is doing is completely un-American/authoritarian." But they will remain silent.
MAGA don’t care about the ACA. They complain about it constantly. They want to get rid of it.
Honestly, this government has been shut down since January, hollowing out every federal agency in a lawless takeover. A REAL government shut down might actually stop the takeover. I'm all in on a shutdown. STOP THE MADNESS.
Schumer is lost in a political era that died in November of 2016. I would hope that if I was so hapless as he, I would have the insight to realize it, and step down. Ya know, for the good of the country. You remember the country, right Chucky?
Schumer is an old fool. Asking Trump for a meeting betrayed weakness. Trump and congressional lackeys need votes. Chucky could have said “You need votes huh? We want something first. Other than that, I ain’t got shit to say to you and your flunkies. Call my office if you wanna talk. Adios!”
"sure we will give you the votes... when trump resigns"
Schumer thinks voters still give a rat’s ass about bipartisanship. I’m not sure if he’s stupid and out of touch or just complicit. Either way, I hope AOC runs against him and destroys him when he’s up for reelection.
imo hes stupid and feckless not intentionally complicit
That would be great. He’s been there for 50 years. Make way old man.
Oh piffle. Schumer is correct to continue to ask for bipartisanship, and measures that benefit the citizenry. It is not his fault that Trump does not do cooperation, only domination.
Trump cannot agree to anything that walks back anything in the big fleecing bill. He would see that as weakness, or admitting he was wrong. Not gonna happen.
The Democrats are asking for reasonable concessions. Trump refuses. Shut it down.
Sadly, I must concur with your appraisal of the situation.
You’re correctly citing, “country”, and he hears, “country club”….he’s not leaving while still vertical. He is only leaving when he gets carried out.
Democrats need to remember that their supporters melt away when they appear to fold.
Trump/MAGA/GOP do not do bipartisanship. At all. Donald cannot bear to share the limelight. So any deal that benefits the electorate is impossible for him to agree to.
Shut it down. Talk loud, proud and in everyday vernacular about why it happened and whose fault it is.
They're literally talking about using the military on us and leadership wants to sit down to negotiate.
You are mis-stating the case. "The leadership" does not want to sit down and negotiate whether the military should turn on the citizenry: they have clearly stated they are opposed to that and many other of the Trump/GOP overreaches.
They would like to negotiate for keeping the health care budgets Trump axed in his big fleecing bill.
Two different things.
Sure, but they are trying to negotiate on the one to fund the other. That isn't their goal, obviously, but that is the effect. It feels like a totally reasonable ask of leadership to say there are certain lines that if the other side cross you don't give them money.
Sometimes throwing a wooden shoe into the gears of the mill is your only option.
Schumer & Jeffries are the wrong voices during this time. So frustrating 😕
I disagree. They are asking for what anyone can see are reasonable concessions. But the mission is doomed as Trump does not do concessions.
It is not their style that is at fault, but Trump's vicious perfidy.
Negotiations haven't 'broken down.' Instead, Trump doesn't want and has no capacity to negotiate anything he can't control. The limp dick House Speaker is manipulating the House so as to block votes and discussion. How the GOP think this is a winning strategy is unconditionally beyond me. How the GOP think that knocking millions of Americans off of health care roles - many of whom are their own voters - while dramatically jacking up the cost of health insurance for most others is a winning strategy is also beyond me. How they think this will end the demand for the Epstein Files or that bringing an entire nation down in the attempt to do so is ok is delusional
Their actions say to me they don't care about voters/voting and plan to stay in power by any other means.
The media keeps focusing on Trump’s still dropping poll numbers across this nation in about every category while simultaneously losing interest in the Epstein Files. The media presents poll numbers as if Trump - and Trump’s handlers from Russell Vought to Stephen Miller - give a damn. They don’t.
Trump is done this time around and is nothing but an idiot front for the violent Christian Nationalist of Project 2025. Vought and those so aligned which includes Pete KEGseth and JD Vance want to have a point of control by the time Trump leaves the White House. They don’t give a rat’s ass about poll numbers - just cementing their control as best they can.
At the batshit crazy meeting today with hundreds of Generals and Admirals, Trump talked about himself along, more notably, with the ‘enemy within’ meaning Democrats, Democratic controlled cities and states and anybody else not on board. There was no discussion about foreign or military policy; nothing about China or Russia. Instead, we heard about grooming, exercise and ‘fat generals.’ Trump talked about using Blue cities as ‘training’ grounds for the National Guard and our military
KEGseth also launched another direct attack on the women in our military. The entire shitshow at Quantico was not for the convened officers who had to leave their day jobs many traveling thousands of miles with their most senior enlisted staff to be insulted and demeaned by their ‘president’ and incompetent, unqualified Secretary of Defense. This dog and pony show was for Trump’s whacked #MAGA voters and, more importantly, Project 2025’s fundamentalist and Seven Mountain base.
The Seven Mountains mandate is from the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) which seeks unconditional control over:
1. Religion
2. Family
3. Education
4. Government (to include our military)
5. Media
6. Arts and entertainment
7. Business
The NAR is far more deeply embedded in DC and the GOP Congress than most citizens are aware. I encourage those not familiar with the NAR to check them out a bit further. Their strength and influence, which was already substantial, exponentially increased on January 20th.
It is THEY, along with White Nationalist Christian Nationalist groups to include the proud boys and sovereign citizens (among many others) who are primary members of the true ‘enemy within.’
And the psychopath who shot up a Mormon church this past Sunday in Michigan then torched it before being taken down by police was yet another violent #MAGA/Trump supporter
We'll see what happens with a shut down. Dems may not be the best messengers, but so far sticking to their point about needing health care funded. This is on Republicans - they have House, Oval, and Senate. Dems have made an effort to work on it. The Republicans - who control it all - have not. They don't care about health care for our fellow citizens. Tell the story that way.
Every article I've read lately has had some allusion to Trump not being aware of what is happening. He's completely non compos mentis. I'd say the country is being run by Grampa Simpson, but that's an insult to Grampa Simpson.
For the first time this year, they have leverage to honor the base's pleading that they do something, do anything. And they've done everything they can to pass the hot potato instead of striking while the iron is hot.
Stick to ACA subsidies. Shut it down. Make the Republicans negotiate. They insisted on power politics, and now they need you. So give them a taste of them power politics.
Democrats keep wanting me to send them money. For what?
Whatever donations I have will go to those hurt by this administration.
The Pod Save guys say to NEVER give money to someone who asks for political donations by phone text. Just delete that text and block the number.
Agree! Tired of getting the emails & texts asking for donations
Except that 90% of those money begs are just some scam PAC that grifts you harder than a TPUSA alum. ACT Blue needs to do a lot better at vetting the orgs using their platform.
That nihilism serves no one. Grow up. It will take an enormous effort to put this country right. At least try to support the good guys.
I am. Just not to Dems. Yet. Mediocre is not good. I've given thousands in past years. Project 2025 caught the Dems by surprise! It's certainly nihilistic of me to give money to food banks, battered women's shelters and PBS. Give your judgment of me a rest.
Project 2025 caught no one by surprise. It was up on the internet for all to see, and was mentioned often during the lead up to and during the campaign. The problem is, voters failed to skim through it. I did, and it was horrifying.
I too am tired of being asked for donations. It never ends.
Don’t forget that Trump lied about Project 2025 and said he didn’t support it.
Yet you chastise me.
How were Democrats ready on inauguration day?
Forgive my impatience. I am tired of people complaining that the Democratic party is not "doing enough", didn't do enough in the past etc. etc.
Believe me, I am sick of Trump. I have Trump PTSD from his first, lamentable admin. I am deeply afraid at how fast he and his cabal of fanatics have torn apart the fabric of your country, upended global trade, and laid the USA bare to its enemies.
Trump is a cancer on the body politic. He invites us to be our least selves, so he can enrich himself at will.
But what alternative is there but to rally behind those Democrats, state and federal, who seek to oppose him and his ideology?
Do I want them to just get elected and let things go back to how they were? No, your country needs its democracy strengthened and protected. You have all been asleep at the switch for too long. But elected they must be to forge a path back to civility, normality, peace, security and prosperity.
Picking holes in the party for the perfidy of Trump is counter-productive.
I'm giving money to people who need it. You've taken a limited comment from me and gone to your assumptions.
Nobody's saying we shouldn't rally behind the Democrats. What people are asking is: do the Democrats currently have the right leadership/ So far the indications are that they don't, and they need to course-correct with a leadership change before the midterms. Maybe this shutdown fight will change my mind.
There's a real problem with text-based fundraising scams. Regardless of politics, common sense dictates deleting and blocking them.
It's just as well not to give, most of your money goes, not to GOTV efforts or voter education, but to line the pockets of the consultants and pollsters whose hideously tin-eared advice has turned the Democratic Party into, potentially, a permanent irrelevancy.
Donald Trump has set up this impasse by all but declaring the Democratic Party a terrorist organization, and you don’t negotiate with terrorists. Republicans have shown themselves to be dishonorable, duplicitous people who renege on agreements and don’t bargain in good faith. Norms and “regular order” are not backed up with actual law; they are tissue paper.
"Republicans control all 3 branches of the government, if they can't figure out how to fund it, that's their fault."
There you go Chuck and Hakeem I did it for you. Every Democrat should be in front of a camera saying this till they are blue in the face. The Health Care fight is a good one but maybe not everyone cares or gets it. Saying the above, gets right to the core of general Republican incompetence in a way everyone understands. Not sure why this is so hard.
just another distraction from Epstein
i think this is way overplayed. epstein matters but its not the only thing that matters/
Most MAGA have completely lost interest in Epstein.
Look at the swagger on Schumer! He's got his glasses pushed up and everything.
Hilarious! Yep, Schumer's a killer!
Look at the decency of Schumer! Jeepers, he actually asks for things that benefit the citizenry!
What has the other guy got?