As a Dem, it brings me no pleasure in reaffirming how dense and misplaced this student loan relief order is - it is literally Ds snatching defeat from the jaws of potential victory. Right when Biden is mounting momentum before the midterms, his advisors convince him this is the time for a moronic hand out. Come on people. You have 1 job. Don’t hand the country back to insane, corrupt, lunatics that already tried to take down democracy. This will not turn out your base. Folks need to be fired for this reckless negligence.
Interestingly the Congress people yelling about student debt forgiveness got the most PPP loan forgiveness. The problem with student loans is the interest that was and is so high people never get the debt paid off.
Can anyone tell me why Rs are/were convinced no-one would vote *for* abortion rights? When we know, consistently, that Americans support abortion rights with restrictions?
While the $10,000 student loan debt cancellation will inflame the combustible right, they are not going to vote for Biden first nor last. They aren’t the ones likely to value education. It’s the left and centre left that has the higher percentage of post-secondary education, the greater amount of student debt and now will have one more reason to vote Democrat all the way.
If you could step back and get some perspective, you might be cynical enough to see that Biden made a canny, double-think move.
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
And I thought the constitution left Congress with the power of the purse. Can the President legally move billions of $ of debt from individuals to the government with an executive order?
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
And I thought the constitution left Congress with the power of the purse. Can the President legally move billions of $ of debt from individuals to the government with an executive order?
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
Ted Cruz: Why are we bailing out upper-middle class Americans at the expense of the non-college educated working class. It is another elitist program by the Democrats. I am outraged and we will fix it if Americans vote Republican!
Journalist: How will you fix it?
Cruz: By passing another tax cut for the rich, of course.
Charlie, I’m shocked at your response and the other responses by politicians to President Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan.
As Robert Hubble contends, “While the Post’s objection is technically true, it is also true for the following subsidies and credits: Trump’s 2017 tax cut for millionaires, oil company subsidies, export subsidies for US manufacturers, auto industry subsidies, lower tax rates for hedge fund managers (“carried interest deduction”), 100% deductibility for yachts purchased for “business purposes,” and deduction for 100% of the future depreciation for private jets in their first year of service.
All of the above subsidies, credits, and deductions are regressive because—as the Post notes—“the broader tax base is mostly made up of workers” who are not millionaires, who do not manage hedge funds, who do not own oil wells, and who do not purchase yachts or private jets. And yet, the Post and others reserve peevish indignation for a program that helps middle- and lower-income earners who took a chance by investing in their futures and themselves.
And there were complaints about “unfairness” by those who paid their loans or who do not qualify for loan forgiveness. Biden did what he could given the limits on the Department of Education’s ability to modify its loan programs. The fact that Biden crafted a plan that targets middle- to low-income earners was a reasonable compromise. Was it perfect? Of course not. But when that becomes the standard for achieving progress, all forward movement will cease. We should celebrate another promise kept by Biden.”
And I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Hubble! Just think about the amount of money that businesses have received during the pandemic and the amount of money that the wealthy have received over decades.
Imho, you’re not seeing the right (correct) side of this issue, Charlie.
How is it that someone can sign a contract which comes with an agreement to repay a debt, for any purpose, can suddenly be saved from that debt by the government?
I don’t disagree that millions of young people have huge college debt. Why did they sign up for it?
Charlie, Biden’s loan forgiveness is a unforced error of idiocy. The problem defined is the excessive cost of college education. The solution: eliminate tuition for community college. It is unquestionably good for America that we have more college graduates. A college degree today is the equivalent of a high school diploma fifty years ago. We must evolve or become non competitive. My daughter is senior faculty at CUNY: John Jay and the Graduate Center. The system is clogged with very highly paid “administrators” who make the contribution of tits on a bull and burden the system with their very special bureaucratic edicts. This problem exists to benefit the politicians who create the administrators as political patronage to ensure their re-election. It’s time to make this pork into bacon: administrator BLT’s for the table!
My personal take - a lot of the outrage against the student loan forgiveness is performative. The folks on the right pulling out their tried and trusted tropes ("We can't BELIEVE you're asking THIS truck driver to just GIVE YOU $10,000 of his hard-earned money! Have you no shame? Learn to take some responsibility!") while those who've been championing this cause are going to their safe spaces ("We cannot understand how someone who has suffered through hardship is pissed off about other people NOT suffering through the same. Why can't you be happy that future generations don't have to bear the same burdens you did? What about the PPP loans? How is this different from bailing out farmers in Iowa?"). I do not, however, see any of the smart people explaining how or why the tuitions of the public universities got so insanely expensive in the first place? Why something that was being funded by state and federal grants for the longest time kept losing those funds and hence pushing the burden of the cost on to the student year after year. We've managed to keep K-12 public education free and available to students across the board (ignore the loonies trying to destroy that, for a moment). Isn't there a way that we could keep public universities the same way? They don't have to be entirely free, but at the very least, can they not be affordable for those who desire to advance their education? (And also crack down on predatory lending - but that's a whole other show, as they say!)
If there are any resources that can provide answers beyond the outrage, would love to see those.
I'm not sure this is the political loser Charlie and most of the Bulwark writers think it is. Yes, the crazy wing of the GOP will cry elitism and class warfare, conveniently forgetting the PPP loan forgiveness debacle that is a whole hell of a lot more money. What's left of the fiscal conservative crowd will have the same arguments about bailouts, responsibility, etc. Bottom line, it is targeted to the people that really need the relief (and I'd have targeted it further-- increasing threshold to say $100K). My biggest criticism is that it does nothing to address the bigger issue, which is higher education cost. In the end, it probably does get the Dem coalition another reason to go vote-- but I think it's way overshadowed by Dobbs and other threats to democracy.
Debt forgiveness? Where was all this concern when Trump forgave $1.5 trillion in tax debt? This is only <checks notes> $300 billion. P.S. If you thought the tax forgiveness would lead to inflation, you were right. Thomas D. Penfield, San Diego
Further to my last post, when you think about it, had he paid it back, and not had the taxpayers absorb his default, that would have essentially wiped out the Student Loan Forgiveness. Add into that, courtesy of the Lincoln Project, Deadbeat Newt Gingrich:
As a Dem, it brings me no pleasure in reaffirming how dense and misplaced this student loan relief order is - it is literally Ds snatching defeat from the jaws of potential victory. Right when Biden is mounting momentum before the midterms, his advisors convince him this is the time for a moronic hand out. Come on people. You have 1 job. Don’t hand the country back to insane, corrupt, lunatics that already tried to take down democracy. This will not turn out your base. Folks need to be fired for this reckless negligence.
Interestingly the Congress people yelling about student debt forgiveness got the most PPP loan forgiveness. The problem with student loans is the interest that was and is so high people never get the debt paid off.
Can anyone tell me why Rs are/were convinced no-one would vote *for* abortion rights? When we know, consistently, that Americans support abortion rights with restrictions?
While the $10,000 student loan debt cancellation will inflame the combustible right, they are not going to vote for Biden first nor last. They aren’t the ones likely to value education. It’s the left and centre left that has the higher percentage of post-secondary education, the greater amount of student debt and now will have one more reason to vote Democrat all the way.
If you could step back and get some perspective, you might be cynical enough to see that Biden made a canny, double-think move.
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
And I thought the constitution left Congress with the power of the purse. Can the President legally move billions of $ of debt from individuals to the government with an executive order?
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
And I thought the constitution left Congress with the power of the purse. Can the President legally move billions of $ of debt from individuals to the government with an executive order?
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
Rushing and botching the Afghanistan withdrawal was Biden's first major unforced error and it has cost him and the Dems dearly for more than a year. This massively expensive, narrowly focused debt forgiveness plan will be his second self-destructive mistake--and likely fatal should he choose to run again. Even if he doesn't, this albatross will hang on the neck of the Democratic nominee in '24. Right up there with defund the police on the stupidity meter.
Wisconsin, out-drinking your state since 1848. Brandy old fashioned, anyone?
Ted Cruz: Why are we bailing out upper-middle class Americans at the expense of the non-college educated working class. It is another elitist program by the Democrats. I am outraged and we will fix it if Americans vote Republican!
Journalist: How will you fix it?
Cruz: By passing another tax cut for the rich, of course.
Charlie, I’m shocked at your response and the other responses by politicians to President Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan.
As Robert Hubble contends, “While the Post’s objection is technically true, it is also true for the following subsidies and credits: Trump’s 2017 tax cut for millionaires, oil company subsidies, export subsidies for US manufacturers, auto industry subsidies, lower tax rates for hedge fund managers (“carried interest deduction”), 100% deductibility for yachts purchased for “business purposes,” and deduction for 100% of the future depreciation for private jets in their first year of service.
All of the above subsidies, credits, and deductions are regressive because—as the Post notes—“the broader tax base is mostly made up of workers” who are not millionaires, who do not manage hedge funds, who do not own oil wells, and who do not purchase yachts or private jets. And yet, the Post and others reserve peevish indignation for a program that helps middle- and lower-income earners who took a chance by investing in their futures and themselves.
And there were complaints about “unfairness” by those who paid their loans or who do not qualify for loan forgiveness. Biden did what he could given the limits on the Department of Education’s ability to modify its loan programs. The fact that Biden crafted a plan that targets middle- to low-income earners was a reasonable compromise. Was it perfect? Of course not. But when that becomes the standard for achieving progress, all forward movement will cease. We should celebrate another promise kept by Biden.”
And I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Hubble! Just think about the amount of money that businesses have received during the pandemic and the amount of money that the wealthy have received over decades.
Imho, you’re not seeing the right (correct) side of this issue, Charlie.
How is it that someone can sign a contract which comes with an agreement to repay a debt, for any purpose, can suddenly be saved from that debt by the government?
I don’t disagree that millions of young people have huge college debt. Why did they sign up for it?
Charlie, Biden’s loan forgiveness is a unforced error of idiocy. The problem defined is the excessive cost of college education. The solution: eliminate tuition for community college. It is unquestionably good for America that we have more college graduates. A college degree today is the equivalent of a high school diploma fifty years ago. We must evolve or become non competitive. My daughter is senior faculty at CUNY: John Jay and the Graduate Center. The system is clogged with very highly paid “administrators” who make the contribution of tits on a bull and burden the system with their very special bureaucratic edicts. This problem exists to benefit the politicians who create the administrators as political patronage to ensure their re-election. It’s time to make this pork into bacon: administrator BLT’s for the table!
My personal take - a lot of the outrage against the student loan forgiveness is performative. The folks on the right pulling out their tried and trusted tropes ("We can't BELIEVE you're asking THIS truck driver to just GIVE YOU $10,000 of his hard-earned money! Have you no shame? Learn to take some responsibility!") while those who've been championing this cause are going to their safe spaces ("We cannot understand how someone who has suffered through hardship is pissed off about other people NOT suffering through the same. Why can't you be happy that future generations don't have to bear the same burdens you did? What about the PPP loans? How is this different from bailing out farmers in Iowa?"). I do not, however, see any of the smart people explaining how or why the tuitions of the public universities got so insanely expensive in the first place? Why something that was being funded by state and federal grants for the longest time kept losing those funds and hence pushing the burden of the cost on to the student year after year. We've managed to keep K-12 public education free and available to students across the board (ignore the loonies trying to destroy that, for a moment). Isn't there a way that we could keep public universities the same way? They don't have to be entirely free, but at the very least, can they not be affordable for those who desire to advance their education? (And also crack down on predatory lending - but that's a whole other show, as they say!)
If there are any resources that can provide answers beyond the outrage, would love to see those.
Yesterday I learned just how concerned right-wing America was about the taxpaying plight of the truck driver and the plumber.
Man, those two subsets of America's working class sure got a lot of love, didn't they?
FYI, I piloted trucks for 37+ years.
Why didn't I feel that love during my career?
Of course, The Triad has by far the most cogent, rational, non-partisan take on all this. (JVL is my spirit animal and as a result - is always right!)
I'm not sure this is the political loser Charlie and most of the Bulwark writers think it is. Yes, the crazy wing of the GOP will cry elitism and class warfare, conveniently forgetting the PPP loan forgiveness debacle that is a whole hell of a lot more money. What's left of the fiscal conservative crowd will have the same arguments about bailouts, responsibility, etc. Bottom line, it is targeted to the people that really need the relief (and I'd have targeted it further-- increasing threshold to say $100K). My biggest criticism is that it does nothing to address the bigger issue, which is higher education cost. In the end, it probably does get the Dem coalition another reason to go vote-- but I think it's way overshadowed by Dobbs and other threats to democracy.
Debt forgiveness? Where was all this concern when Trump forgave $1.5 trillion in tax debt? This is only <checks notes> $300 billion. P.S. If you thought the tax forgiveness would lead to inflation, you were right. Thomas D. Penfield, San Diego
Further to my last post, when you think about it, had he paid it back, and not had the taxpayers absorb his default, that would have essentially wiped out the Student Loan Forgiveness. Add into that, courtesy of the Lincoln Project, Deadbeat Newt Gingrich:
https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1562513282178510849?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1562513282178510849%7Ctwgr%5E006051779cddcb69e95653c458b7fcb094feb126%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fjim-jordan-gop-loan-repayment_n_630705ffe4b0e323a25bcf33