If I were Bill Clinton ... well, I would've confessed what I saw there 10 years ago, but the second best time to plant a tree is now. I don't suppose anyone is going to be talking to law enforcement, though, who have managed to wriggle completely out of the story even though this is about their failure to go after child rapists.
Anyway, I am much too busy for Christmas to read much news this week, lucky me. I want to wish you all a warm holiday surrounded by your family and friends. If you need a little encouragement this season, I'm here to say you are worth good things and good things can happen. Change is inevitable. Love is real. And the days are getting longer and sunnier. Go Bills.
In a just, principled world, Epstein's clients would be prosecuted regardless of their status. But in this sick, depraved country, important, rich, white men can commit crimes against powerless, young girls whose only purpose is to wait on and please rich men. Nothing will be done, because in their minds there is no crime. And its always been this way.
Merry Christmas to you, Kate. It does look as though the ship may finally be going down. The regime can't even get their non-release release straight and the rats are already leaving, starting with the smartest ones; Greene and Stefanik. It's been a long, cold, lonely winter but here comes the sun.
"Hey Jude" for me. I still remember the first time I heard it at a friend's house when I was a teenager. He played two new 45s(!) that he just bought, "Hey Jude" and "Hush" by Deep Purple. I remember asking him about "Hey Jude" - does it just keep going on like that?
I've always enjoyed reading your comments and your writings Kate. Let us all take a breather to enjoy our families, loved ones, and friends. I'm quite sure all the dysfunction going on will be there when we get back from celebrating what's supposed to be a joyous occasion.
May you and your family have a Merry Christmas and a Happier New Year. I wish this for all The Bulwark writers, and this wonderful comment section. You guys are the best!
What a perfect 3-line summation of Trump’s World! And I am going to give that world minimal attention until, oh, I’d say Epiphany. Current events seem perversely dark and cruel, and nature adds to it by shrinking our daylight and warmth. To counter that, we have people not cursing the darkness, but lighting candles, for Hanukkah and Advent, humans are engaged in concerted acts of love and kindness, and “the moon, on the breast of the new-fallen snow, gives a luster of midday to objects below”. Recharge your batteries, peeps, it’s gonna be a long hard slog, but for now, celebrate life! Blessings, Kate!
Enjoy your time with family and friends, Kate. Eat some good food, drink some good wine, toast to the coming new year. Each day we are a little closer to the end of this...
Says everyone but addicted Trump worshippers. Of which there are fewer than the 30% of eligible voters who gave him a slight plurality in '24. And there will be fewer still in '28, regardless who the MAGA candidate is. And all MAGA politicians, lawyers, etc., if not most of the addicted base, are astutely aware of that. Which makes one issue - assuring free and fair elections - priority 1 for at least the next 3 years. More important than every other issue combined.
Last week, in a comment I wrote for a False Flag article, I referred to Bari Weiss as a right-wing journalist. A fellow Bulwark community member said that just showed how much in the bubble I was because he insisted that Weiss was center-left. In light of what has just happened at "60 Minutes" and the disgusting article Weiss published about the starving kids in Gaza, I invite that community member to reassess which of us is in the bubble.
Bari Weiss should wear a t-shirt that say ‘The Left Made Me Do It’ as that has always been her grift and money maker. She would be left but …. You can fill in the blank with almost any issue because TFP has probably covered it. Granted it works because the left takes her and its *sins* seriously unlike the right. For the record, Bari, honest journalism is running the story, and if the administration didn’t respond for comment you note that as part of the coverage and move on.
One would think that Weiss is noticing that the other women are flooding the exits. One would ask oneself, what have Greene and Stefanik (and don't forget Dan Bongino) seen that is causing them to run away from the grift?
I think Greene and Stefanik is more of a spite thing. Bongino on the other hand, I think he saw things that his instinct for self-preservation told him to get the hell out while he still has some safer options
I'd posit, with all due respect and no aspersions of any kind directed at you or the Bulwark member of whom you speak, that you're both wrong... about Weiss being a *journalist*, that is.
A stretch as an op-ed and book review editor at the WSJ and a stint spent bitching and whining at the NYT does not a real *journalist* make. Weiss is, vis a vie "journalism", at her very core a noisy blogger with a chip on her shoulder who likes to present herself as anything but what she actually is: an opportunist seeking $$$ and attention while attempting to hoodwink her audience with a so-called policy of nonpartisan fairness and accuracy. Which is anything but.
But I'll certainly give her full credit for being very, very successful at her chosen endeavor.
Agreed. There are not a lot of actual journalists left these days--because actual journalism is not a path to wealth, influence, and power.
There are a lot of people out there pretending to be fair and balanced. A whole network dedicated to that (if you believe them). Of course, they got caught in a (almost) billion dollar lie.
What fair and balanced seems to work out to be these days is telling THIS particular group (that feels underserved by the media) that they are right-thus securing an audience share.
One could only call Weiss "center left" if one trusted Weiss to honestly describe her own political position and ignores the cynical reasons Weiss might claim "center left" for benefits other than self-actualization and honest disclosure.
She's a goober and a right of center troll. If she ever was left of center in her heart of hearts, that is no longer the case now. How far to the right she drifts is purely a matter of transactional benefit.
At my most generous, I will grant she probably grew up and came of age in a milieu that was culturally and politically left of center often without thinking about it — or at least mostly influenced by liberal values. Whether she believed that or not I cannot say. Her drift to the right is driven by Israel which is the only thing that seems to matter to Bari, and in that regard there is still a lot of room left for her to drift towards.
"For a minute there, Blanche thought he could get away with lying about it. He forgot that the boss had already spilled the beans."
The real problem for the front line liars, bobbers and weavers is that no matter what they know the Felon said yesterday, they have no forking clue what he will say tomorrow. That is the basic problem with having an increasingly obvious dementia victim as your boss.
Tom, I am personally convinced that he and I know all there is to know in the world. He knows everything except that he is a flaming assh--e, and I know that.
I used to know a flaming narcissist who perpetually was passed up for promotion. To cover for and anticipate failure, he would begin interviews regarding a pending promotion by informing the panel that he knew more than they did; and that they, therefore, were not qualified to sit in judgement. It's Narcissism 101.
I'll admit that I'm not well informed on the gory details of Epstein and Maxwell's depredations. I can't be the only one shocked that the "masseuse list" contained 254 names. The scale here is much larger than is commonly understood.
Epstein and Maxwell are reported to have furnished up to 1000 different girls world-wide to various people in return for...gratitude? Esteem? Money? It's not 100% clear.
Many of them were promised entry into careers in modeling and art. In addition, most were paid between $200-300, per 'massage,' or for recruiting other girls. There was always a carrot offered, and sometimes partially given, as long as they were available to service men. This was not a haphazard operation, but a carefully managed one. Don't know the fee or perks given to girls who attended Epstein's sex parties.
Is anyone (a) surprised Bill Clinton features so prominently in the Epstein files or (b) find it ridiculously on-brand the administration considers that fact as cover for Trump? As much as I do very easily separate the two men in my head in terms of their character, our 42nd POTUS has never been someone I would uphold as a beacon of morality, especially in conversations about the treatment of (young) women.
Trumpland misunderstands that there is no cult of personality around any ex-Democratic president, certainly any living former president. Clinton can and should go to straight jail if he is guilty of any crime, and I'll be completely unbothered.
TBF I think we (on the left) would have more difficulty throwing Obama overboard than Clinton, but we’d still DO IT. It’s laughable that anyone thinks the left would go to the mattresses for Clinton.
That's correct. Trumpers assume that Democrats worship Clinton like they worship Trump. It's just not true. Most Democrats don't have a problem with Clinton being held accountable if he did something wrong. Things have changed since Clinton was in office.
You are 100% right. I voted for Clinton, but if he has committed crimes against young girls, then he should also be prosecuted. The real crime is that these guys think its about politics, and partially it is. But more importantly, this is about older rich men thinking have a right to molest powerless young girls just because they are powerful rich men.
I'm not aware of any specific allegations about Trump or Clinton pertaining to Epstein's criminal activities beyond the association itself as of now. If anything, it's more of a "where there's smoke, there's fire" assumption by many at this point. It may turn out to be not much beyond the optics in either case, though I think what you're seeing is nobody will be surprised should we learn of something more damning for either or both.
Felon Trump lies regularly. He knew Epstein for many years. They spent a lot of time together. Trump said the files should be released. Now he is fighting tooth and nail to keep them away from the public. I agree with Krystal, there is something in there he wants to hide, and it is very bad. He skated over a lot of bad things, but this one is bigger than everything else. Methinks he protest too much.
No Clinton was never a beacon of morality, but was the Republican reaction to the Monica Lewinsky affair ever about morally or merely scoring political points? It was never about the treatment of women which are lessons we can take away from what happened, but putting Trump in the White House twice demonstrates those who railed against Bill Clinton’s immorality never meant it.
💯 agreed, and one could argue these seeds were planted a generation ago. The American left did their best throughout the 90s to convince us a President's personal behaviors had nothing to do with their job performance. After all, look at how well the economy performed under Clinton.
Again, Bill is not Don by a country mile, but I've also never chosen to associate with a person who dishonored their family as often as we know he did. The womanizing aside (no easy task), it speaks to transactional approach to all relationships. We are all disposable at some point in theat reality. No thank you.
So the left needs to reconcile that in moving forward against Trump. He is by far a worse human being, and the right's entitlement to installing him as their savior was absolutely created by enabling Clinton for so long.
He never should have done it. It probably changed the course of history. In a similar spot, Trump would either: admit it; or claim that he had never met the intern--and that would be the end of it.
And Trump in general refuses to be put under oath, except that in Georgia he messed up and executed a written declaration under penalty of perjury that was complete and utter BS--one of the Georgia charges against him is perjury.
Yes, I remember hearing that one back in the 90s. It didn't age well (thankfully) by around 2017.
And yes, adultery has been taken out of the criminal code (also thankfully), and no it isn't healthy a culture should spend so much time seeking out those very private details.
However, I also remember many allegations against Clinton, including the sexual harassment claim that led to the Lewinsky scandal and a settlement out of court.
I'd really rather not relive all of that, but let's be honest when it comes to Bill Clinton's choices.
Do you mean by Bill Clinton or in general? I would say the press and the Republican party treated Monica horribly and objectified her sexually. Many have argued the power dynamics made the relationship inappropriate, and Bill should have known better. But younger women, and men, have been attracted to powerful older people since time immemorial— both sexually and otherwise. The attraction to an older powerful, mature male figure is understandable; even if we find aspects distasteful. If Hillary was mistreated it was by a husband, who like many, was unfaithful and dishonest with her. She seems to have made peace with that or decided the advantages of staying were worth more than a divorce.
The Republican Party treated Monica Lewinsky horribly? Are you kidding? It was Clinton and Democrats who discarded Monica Lewinsky like yesterday's rubbish. Lewinsky was a subordinate in the workplace. Clinton was effectively her boss. Clinton manipulated her, bestowing benefits on her, to have an affair with her. And you are blaming Lewinsky for Clinton's transgression that would have gotten him fired at virtually every company in the country that has an HR department? And let's not forget Clinton lied under oath about the affair. You don't get a pass to lie under oath because you are covering up a sexual affair.
Sorry I disagree. Clinton’s behavior did not pave the way for Felon Trump. Clinton wanted to keep his private life separate from his Presidency. With Felon Trump, power and power over anyone was more important than the Presidency, it was just the means to his ends. You can’t go back to the past and reassign conditions with current mores. There is a term for that action Cognitive Dissonance.
I don't know, I don't think an affair with an employee intern in the White House is private life. Take that to a private place with a person from private life if you want to be private.
Wait. Remember the time when it happened. It should have been a big deal then but it wasn’t. Clinton always said that he compartmentilized, if that is such a word, parts of his world. He saw it as private, not me; I say it was detestable then as now. He did this throughout his career, and would have continued until his heart issue probably stopped him. We have come along way from that time, and we need to go further so this never happens again.
Wait, Monica Lewinsky was a subordinate in the workplace. Clinton was effectively her boss. Clinton gave out favors to her in exchange for sex. It was not just Clinton being "immoral" or the Republicans scoring "political points." What Clinton did would get a person fired from pretty much any company with an HR Department.
And at the same time New Gingrich was having an affair with a congressional staffer who was 22 years younger than him who is now his 3rd wife. Which is exactly the same thing Bill Clinton did. I haven’t seen you making the same arguments or having the same outrage against him. But once again my comment about people wanting to have sex with and get favors from powerful older men stands. The incentives in these relationships go both ways. Arguments for morality don’t always play well with human nature and desires.
Are you kidding? Clinton was her boss. Lewinsky was a 22 year old intern. Clinton took advantage of the situation to have a sexual affair, bestowing benefits on Lewinsky in the process. Lewinsky was taken advantage off and discarded by the Clintons and Democrats. Today, most Democrats admit they were wrong in how they treated Lewinsky at the time.
There is absolutely no way to know who came on to who. We don't know what people do or say behind closed doors. I wouldn't know this about a couple I knew well, so there's no way we could know it about someone we've never met personally.
We can start by examining the power dynamics and why any respectable workplace has policies against a boss/employee relationship. "Inappropriate" is probably the kindest way to put it.
You can then take a look at the lives each were allowed to lead once the dust had settled. Clinton has gone on to receive accolades, ran alongside his wife for multiple public offices, and has been made a very rich man. All this while Lewinsky was mostly a pariah and lived a life of shame until finding her voice and an audience that recognized the power structures that enable men to use (young) women and throw them to the wolves.
Have you ever offered to fellate your boss? I haven't. Why would Monica not blame that horrible woman who convinced her to publicize the blue dress? That you land on "inappropriate" makes my case. Yes it was.
The right wing is thrilled to pass around pictures of Clinton, and I believe if he has done anything prosecutable, let them prosecute. I joked to my Trump friend when she did that that now I’ll have to get rid of my Clinton hat, my Clinton shirt, my Clinton Bible, my $2,000 Clinton Bible, and my Clinton crypto coins. She has apparently blocked me on Facebook. Oh well, we’ve only been friends since we were 3.
For me, someone who watched closely 8 years of how Fox News covered for Trump and vilified the Dems, there are some Holy Grails in the GOP belief system. One is that Bill Clinton is patient zero of the liberal black plague that invaded our country. Therefore, he can be brought up as an example, blamed for nearly everything in our country, the poster child for characterless political leaders....etc.
Bill and Hillary are the black holes of the GOP...where the truth or light can never escape. They will always be there, like a security blanket, for the MAGA faithful to blame and feel better about themselves and still be supporting Trump.
I didn't really even know who George Soros was until I started interacting with Fox News viewers posting on their articles. The funny thing is that in about 30 minutes of researching him, I ended up knowing more about him than they did. All they know is what everyone else in their media silo tells them or alludes to knowing about him. So willfully ignorant the MAGAs are.
You've been keeping up on the history of this guy named Jeffrey Epstein, right? You've seen the photos of him with both Trump and Clinton (separately), yes? And you're aware both men have very public histories of womanizing, no?
NOBODY has said they have proof that either Trump or Clinton are guilty of the same or similar crimes as Epstein. The close associations look bad. If that's all it turns out to be, ok, they're just sleezy, just not criminally in this case. Hang your hat on that, I suppose...
I couldn't say what, if anything, Trump has a problem with in his choices, but I am also unaware of him having ever admitted to any wrongdoing under any circumstances.
The specific stories had to do with Karen McDougall, which Pecker paid to spike--partially at least because part of her story was that she had become pregnant by Trump and had had an abortion. Stormy Daniels was the other. Both were in the context of a political campaign.
I will have to go back and see what stories were spiked, and by whom. There was a time, perhaps prior to his political involvement, when Trump revelled in publicity of his affairs.
One of the stories were from the Playboy bunny, MacDonald. She sold her story to The Enquirer and they spiked it. The owner testified he did it as a favor for Felon Trump.
The right wing is thrilled to pass around pictures of Clinton, and I believe if he has done anything prosecutable, let them prosecute. I joked to my Trump friend when she did that that now I’ll have to get rid of my Clinton hat, my Clinton shirt, my Clinton Bible, my $2,000 Clinton watch, and my Clinton crypto coins. She has apparently blocked me on Facebook. Oh well, we’ve only been friends since we were 3.
I followed the Clinton years closely. On two occasions there were very rich men looking for dirt on Clinton, and they found plenty. Remember Paula Jones? But I never heard any story about him and young girls. Ken Starr was investigating any and everything he could use against Clinton. The Republicans and their cronies would have plastered any story, real or not, about Clinton and young girls. They wanted blood. If he is figured so prominently in the Epstein Files, I smell a foul Republican odor. Another distraction better than Gates, or Summers.
My understanding is the photos of Clinton and Trump with Epstein are circa late 90s/early 2000s, which would be right around when Jones/Lewinsky scandal(s) had either kicked off or ended. Part of the coverup concern has always been the blind eye many turned when it came to Epstein. It's also difficult to be too precise in what happened when given the incomplete public record.
Which means we wait until more information comes to light. I still go back to my above statement that the GOP was sticking to Clinton like white on rice. If there was even a whiff of talk about underage girls, there would have been an investigation by Ken Starr. And there wasn’t.
Probably. But Clinton had spent years in politics and knew a lot about how things worked. He was a political animal. Felon Trump was not then and not today. Clinton’s friendship was not the same as Trump’s.
The Bari Weiss takeover of 60 Minutes hits me hard. I’ve watched the show regularly since the 1970s (saying this in my best raspy old-man voice), and I’ve always considered it to be rock solid as the best of truthful and in-depth investigative journalism. With 60 Minutes corrupted, that type of journalism has taken a huge hit. And the problem goes well beyond just 60 Minutes as Trump and his allies work to reshape all media to be sympathetic to him.
My 2026 prediction is that it will be a rough year for Bari Weiss. Playing with the tiger behind bars at the Free Press is a bit different than trying to ride the tiger.
I always watched 60 minutes as well. I especially enjoyed A Few Minutes with Andy Rooney. The problem is, 60 Minutes paved the way for the monetization of the news which plagues the media today. The news used to be more of a public service, but 60 Minutes showed that people would actually pay. Add in saint Ronnie’s dismantling of the fairness doctrine and voilà, we got Fox “News” et al. Trump is taking that to new lows.
Mike Wallace, Ed Bradley and crew along with Edward R Murrow and Walter Cronkite are turning in the graves over what has happened to the once Tiffany network of news.
Well, if you're the sniveling head of an international sports organization wishing to gain influence and favor with this Nobel Prize poseur, you could conjure up a cheap, phony peace prize and give it to him.
I thought the FIFA Peace Prize Ceremony (cough, cough) the perfect Trumpian moment. Trump seized the medallion and hung it around his own neck. The only person great enough to bestow an honor on Trump is Trump.
I watched 60 minutes on Sunday and enjoyed the story from Nepal (having done the Everest trek myself as well as being a longtime mountaineer). However it seemed a bit odd that this was the lead story (was filmed 7 months ago) while there were major news events in the last week. Even more suspicious finding out they pulled the deportation story.
It's become abundantly clear over the last month - no department in this administration can be considered telling the truth. Not the Dept of Labor (employment, etc statistics), not the FDA/CDC/HHS, and certainly not the DOJ.
It's almost like they are intentionally making government as dysfunctional and untrustworthy as possible so that the public will demand its termination. Norquist's "drown it", but not in a bathtub.
Like George Conway said in his last Podcast with Sarah: Big government was always the number one argument of conservatism. In Trump, that is what they got.
I saw him saying that, and never thought it possible that anyone with an absolute degradation of character could ever become President, that surely only good and honorable men would ever reside in the White House. Trump hasn’t made government smaller, unless by that you mean hobbled by ethics and responsibility to its electorate who do not head corporations.
One difference between Nixon’s situation and the Donald J. Trump Epstein files: Many more people have seen some or all of the Epstein documents - teams of prosecutors, representatives of the Epstein estate, victims and their lawyers. Between them, they can discern what is being held back. Keep the pressure going.
Exactly what I was going to say! There are many people who know what is in those files and what has been whitewashed. The cover-up is going to draw more attention, not less. It screams from the rooftops that Trump committed some horrendous acts if they take this path to try and hide it. This is just dumb.
Even if he did it wouldn't matter, crimes this big dont just get to be waved away. You dont get to carry out a modern day trail of tears+holocaust-lite and just walk away no matter the pardon.
I don't know. If Trump goes down there is no way he will pardon those that should sink in the ship with him. However if he survives this, he will pardon them just to keep their mouths shut so they don't write a book afterwards.
If Trump pardons them, then everything should be released to the public and let the chips fall where they may
"Their (the victims, ed.) ongoing effect on unraveling this coverup shouldn’t be underestimated. And in any case, we owe them our continued and unsparing effort to uncover the truth and achieve justice." ...to help tear down the wall of obfuscation, lies, and classic Trumpian Bull Shit that is the shifting wall of coverup and fabrications being dribbled out, bit by salacious bit.
Let's not forget their legal team or teams or reams of teams, because, Shakespeare be damned, do NOT kill all the lawyers. Is there a crowd-funding for the EVLF (Epstein Victims Legal Fund) somewhere? Or at least for one or the other victim who can not come up with enough money to join whatever law suit may become necessary to, as Ronnie Reagan said in another time and place, but also dealing with an autocratic monster, "Tear Down This Wall".
Tired: Demanding a peace prize because you solved 7 wars
Wired: Starting a new war to distract from the ongoing unsolved wars
Inspired: Starting a new war at Christmas while your base sings about the Prince of Peace
Speaking of Wired, I wanted to share their Epstein files summary. I'm not sure if this will work as a gift article. https://www.wired.com/story/epstein-files-whats-in-doj-release-december-19/
If I were Bill Clinton ... well, I would've confessed what I saw there 10 years ago, but the second best time to plant a tree is now. I don't suppose anyone is going to be talking to law enforcement, though, who have managed to wriggle completely out of the story even though this is about their failure to go after child rapists.
Anyway, I am much too busy for Christmas to read much news this week, lucky me. I want to wish you all a warm holiday surrounded by your family and friends. If you need a little encouragement this season, I'm here to say you are worth good things and good things can happen. Change is inevitable. Love is real. And the days are getting longer and sunnier. Go Bills.
In a just, principled world, Epstein's clients would be prosecuted regardless of their status. But in this sick, depraved country, important, rich, white men can commit crimes against powerless, young girls whose only purpose is to wait on and please rich men. Nothing will be done, because in their minds there is no crime. And its always been this way.
Plus a preemptive pardon is coming for all anyway.
None for Clinton or any Democrats.
Merry Christmas to you, Kate. It does look as though the ship may finally be going down. The regime can't even get their non-release release straight and the rats are already leaving, starting with the smartest ones; Greene and Stefanik. It's been a long, cold, lonely winter but here comes the sun.
I join with Steve in my good wishes for you and yours, Kate.
My favorite Beatles song, Steve!
And I say, It's all right.
"Hey Jude" for me. I still remember the first time I heard it at a friend's house when I was a teenager. He played two new 45s(!) that he just bought, "Hey Jude" and "Hush" by Deep Purple. I remember asking him about "Hey Jude" - does it just keep going on like that?
Some say that it's still going on to this day...
I've always enjoyed reading your comments and your writings Kate. Let us all take a breather to enjoy our families, loved ones, and friends. I'm quite sure all the dysfunction going on will be there when we get back from celebrating what's supposed to be a joyous occasion.
May you and your family have a Merry Christmas and a Happier New Year. I wish this for all The Bulwark writers, and this wonderful comment section. You guys are the best!
I concur, and Happy Holidays, Jeri and fellow Bulwarkers!
Merry Christmas back at you Kate. Winter Solstice has come and gone and now things will get brighter and lighter. Go Lions...oh wait....Go Bears.
Jared Goff was robbed last night! I say with the confidence of someone who watched only the last 5 minutes of the game. Merry Christmas!
The days now get longer. The days are getting warmer.(at least in a few months) Those Bears are playing with horse shoes under those jerseys!
All the horse shoes belong to Ben Johnson. He packed them all up when he left the Lions.
What a perfect 3-line summation of Trump’s World! And I am going to give that world minimal attention until, oh, I’d say Epiphany. Current events seem perversely dark and cruel, and nature adds to it by shrinking our daylight and warmth. To counter that, we have people not cursing the darkness, but lighting candles, for Hanukkah and Advent, humans are engaged in concerted acts of love and kindness, and “the moon, on the breast of the new-fallen snow, gives a luster of midday to objects below”. Recharge your batteries, peeps, it’s gonna be a long hard slog, but for now, celebrate life! Blessings, Kate!
Merry Christmas, Kate! I always love your comments.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you Kate!
I'm sure Willie Jeff was grateful that there was an expectation that he as a former POTUS should keep his mouth shut. No more.
You had me until the last line...
Enjoy your time with family and friends, Kate. Eat some good food, drink some good wine, toast to the coming new year. Each day we are a little closer to the end of this...
And go Pats!
GO BILLS!!!
The Epstein class is completely bipartisan. The evil done, allowed, and ignored goes way beyond politics. Take them all down.
Let the sunshine in...
Fifth Dimension
Only when the MAGAts abandon...they are beginning to consume one another. But until they all look askance at the Felon....
Says everyone but addicted Trump worshippers. Of which there are fewer than the 30% of eligible voters who gave him a slight plurality in '24. And there will be fewer still in '28, regardless who the MAGA candidate is. And all MAGA politicians, lawyers, etc., if not most of the addicted base, are astutely aware of that. Which makes one issue - assuring free and fair elections - priority 1 for at least the next 3 years. More important than every other issue combined.
Completely bipartisan? Not sure about that, but it certainly is spread around.
Last week, in a comment I wrote for a False Flag article, I referred to Bari Weiss as a right-wing journalist. A fellow Bulwark community member said that just showed how much in the bubble I was because he insisted that Weiss was center-left. In light of what has just happened at "60 Minutes" and the disgusting article Weiss published about the starving kids in Gaza, I invite that community member to reassess which of us is in the bubble.
Bari Weiss should wear a t-shirt that say ‘The Left Made Me Do It’ as that has always been her grift and money maker. She would be left but …. You can fill in the blank with almost any issue because TFP has probably covered it. Granted it works because the left takes her and its *sins* seriously unlike the right. For the record, Bari, honest journalism is running the story, and if the administration didn’t respond for comment you note that as part of the coverage and move on.
One would think that Weiss is noticing that the other women are flooding the exits. One would ask oneself, what have Greene and Stefanik (and don't forget Dan Bongino) seen that is causing them to run away from the grift?
I think Greene and Stefanik is more of a spite thing. Bongino on the other hand, I think he saw things that his instinct for self-preservation told him to get the hell out while he still has some safer options
I'd posit, with all due respect and no aspersions of any kind directed at you or the Bulwark member of whom you speak, that you're both wrong... about Weiss being a *journalist*, that is.
A stretch as an op-ed and book review editor at the WSJ and a stint spent bitching and whining at the NYT does not a real *journalist* make. Weiss is, vis a vie "journalism", at her very core a noisy blogger with a chip on her shoulder who likes to present herself as anything but what she actually is: an opportunist seeking $$$ and attention while attempting to hoodwink her audience with a so-called policy of nonpartisan fairness and accuracy. Which is anything but.
But I'll certainly give her full credit for being very, very successful at her chosen endeavor.
Got $150m for a two-bit on-line publication that she gave up immediately. She fits right in with her current masters.
Reportedly, 60 Minutes reporters are threatening to walk.
Yeah... wish they would...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/60-minutes-staff-threaten-to-quit-over-pro-trump-censorship/ar-AA1SPogn?ocid=BingNewsSerp
I don't think that would bother her much.
It only would if the viewership and hence the advertisers walked
I'd like 60 Minutes to show up elsewhere. I wouldn't think it would be hard for them to land at another network.
Isn't "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" the new 60 Minutes? <<insert smirk emoji here since I don't know how to do it on substack>>
I don't know, I have only seen him on YouTube. Is he a late night guy? Work keeps me from seeing any of those shows live.
He's an HBO series on Sundays. He reminds me of a very snarky version of the old 60 Minutes - but one-man show.
That may be her plan.
Agreed. There are not a lot of actual journalists left these days--because actual journalism is not a path to wealth, influence, and power.
There are a lot of people out there pretending to be fair and balanced. A whole network dedicated to that (if you believe them). Of course, they got caught in a (almost) billion dollar lie.
What fair and balanced seems to work out to be these days is telling THIS particular group (that feels underserved by the media) that they are right-thus securing an audience share.
One could only call Weiss "center left" if one trusted Weiss to honestly describe her own political position and ignores the cynical reasons Weiss might claim "center left" for benefits other than self-actualization and honest disclosure.
She's a goober and a right of center troll. If she ever was left of center in her heart of hearts, that is no longer the case now. How far to the right she drifts is purely a matter of transactional benefit.
At my most generous, I will grant she probably grew up and came of age in a milieu that was culturally and politically left of center often without thinking about it — or at least mostly influenced by liberal values. Whether she believed that or not I cannot say. Her drift to the right is driven by Israel which is the only thing that seems to matter to Bari, and in that regard there is still a lot of room left for her to drift towards.
She's another Bill Maher, masquerading as a lib calling out lesser libs as an exercise in branding and self-promotion.
Left/right, conservative/liberal, these terms have lost their “before time” meanings. Now it’s all scrambled eggs.
It's democracy v autocracy: We all on one side and MAGA is on the other.
A number of years ago,that's how she defined herself to Joe Rogan but there doesn't appear to be anything about her that leans to the left.
In the last hour, I've been fully vindicated by none other than Adam Kinzinger!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MDLruLgsQI
"For a minute there, Blanche thought he could get away with lying about it. He forgot that the boss had already spilled the beans."
The real problem for the front line liars, bobbers and weavers is that no matter what they know the Felon said yesterday, they have no forking clue what he will say tomorrow. That is the basic problem with having an increasingly obvious dementia victim as your boss.
The fool who (effectively) represents himself becomes senile.
Or already is, as shown by self-representation/aggrandizement through much of his life.
Yep. He knows more than: the lawyers, the generals, the doctors, the architects, the Kennedy Center programmers... ... etc. etc.
Tom, I am personally convinced that he and I know all there is to know in the world. He knows everything except that he is a flaming assh--e, and I know that.
Heh heh...
I used to know a flaming narcissist who perpetually was passed up for promotion. To cover for and anticipate failure, he would begin interviews regarding a pending promotion by informing the panel that he knew more than they did; and that they, therefore, were not qualified to sit in judgement. It's Narcissism 101.
Nice story, Tom, but unfortunately for us all, this flaming narcissist was not passed up for promotion, unless you count his stint as Cadet Bonespur.
I'll admit that I'm not well informed on the gory details of Epstein and Maxwell's depredations. I can't be the only one shocked that the "masseuse list" contained 254 names. The scale here is much larger than is commonly understood.
Epstein and Maxwell are reported to have furnished up to 1000 different girls world-wide to various people in return for...gratitude? Esteem? Money? It's not 100% clear.
Many of them were promised entry into careers in modeling and art. In addition, most were paid between $200-300, per 'massage,' or for recruiting other girls. There was always a carrot offered, and sometimes partially given, as long as they were available to service men. This was not a haphazard operation, but a carefully managed one. Don't know the fee or perks given to girls who attended Epstein's sex parties.
And that number of course presumes that the Department of Lies, once known as Justice, did not delete some of the more salacious names.
When they age out in their mid-teens you've got to roll 'em over to keep the enterprise moving forward.
I’m not shocked, the victim’s list is in the thousands…:)
Is anyone (a) surprised Bill Clinton features so prominently in the Epstein files or (b) find it ridiculously on-brand the administration considers that fact as cover for Trump? As much as I do very easily separate the two men in my head in terms of their character, our 42nd POTUS has never been someone I would uphold as a beacon of morality, especially in conversations about the treatment of (young) women.
Trumpland misunderstands that there is no cult of personality around any ex-Democratic president, certainly any living former president. Clinton can and should go to straight jail if he is guilty of any crime, and I'll be completely unbothered.
TBF I think we (on the left) would have more difficulty throwing Obama overboard than Clinton, but we’d still DO IT. It’s laughable that anyone thinks the left would go to the mattresses for Clinton.
Yes. The Right waddabout artists keep striving for some effort to protect Clinton and others, but there is no such thing.
That's correct. Trumpers assume that Democrats worship Clinton like they worship Trump. It's just not true. Most Democrats don't have a problem with Clinton being held accountable if he did something wrong. Things have changed since Clinton was in office.
You are 100% right. I voted for Clinton, but if he has committed crimes against young girls, then he should also be prosecuted. The real crime is that these guys think its about politics, and partially it is. But more importantly, this is about older rich men thinking have a right to molest powerless young girls just because they are powerful rich men.
What crimes against young girls?
I'm not aware of any specific allegations about Trump or Clinton pertaining to Epstein's criminal activities beyond the association itself as of now. If anything, it's more of a "where there's smoke, there's fire" assumption by many at this point. It may turn out to be not much beyond the optics in either case, though I think what you're seeing is nobody will be surprised should we learn of something more damning for either or both.
Felon Trump lies regularly. He knew Epstein for many years. They spent a lot of time together. Trump said the files should be released. Now he is fighting tooth and nail to keep them away from the public. I agree with Krystal, there is something in there he wants to hide, and it is very bad. He skated over a lot of bad things, but this one is bigger than everything else. Methinks he protest too much.
Yep. This. At best for Trump what is being hidden is that he knew all about it and then kept it quiet. At worst for Trump he is a direct participant.
There should be a bright line between dalliances with adult women and statutory rape.
For sure, it's just that there aren't multiple photos of most dalliance participants with young girls coming to light now.
No, but you heard their testimony on the steps of the Capital. That should outrank the mealy mouths output from Republicans.
No Clinton was never a beacon of morality, but was the Republican reaction to the Monica Lewinsky affair ever about morally or merely scoring political points? It was never about the treatment of women which are lessons we can take away from what happened, but putting Trump in the White House twice demonstrates those who railed against Bill Clinton’s immorality never meant it.
💯 agreed, and one could argue these seeds were planted a generation ago. The American left did their best throughout the 90s to convince us a President's personal behaviors had nothing to do with their job performance. After all, look at how well the economy performed under Clinton.
Again, Bill is not Don by a country mile, but I've also never chosen to associate with a person who dishonored their family as often as we know he did. The womanizing aside (no easy task), it speaks to transactional approach to all relationships. We are all disposable at some point in theat reality. No thank you.
So the left needs to reconcile that in moving forward against Trump. He is by far a worse human being, and the right's entitlement to installing him as their savior was absolutely created by enabling Clinton for so long.
Being a philanderer is an offense against marriage vows only, not the criminal code.
Clinton had sex with a subordinate in the workplace to whom he bestowed benefits. He wasn't just "philandering" against his marriage vows.
Oh, and he lied about the affair under oath. Let's not forget that.
He never should have done it. It probably changed the course of history. In a similar spot, Trump would either: admit it; or claim that he had never met the intern--and that would be the end of it.
And Trump in general refuses to be put under oath, except that in Georgia he messed up and executed a written declaration under penalty of perjury that was complete and utter BS--one of the Georgia charges against him is perjury.
Yes, I remember hearing that one back in the 90s. It didn't age well (thankfully) by around 2017.
And yes, adultery has been taken out of the criminal code (also thankfully), and no it isn't healthy a culture should spend so much time seeking out those very private details.
However, I also remember many allegations against Clinton, including the sexual harassment claim that led to the Lewinsky scandal and a settlement out of court.
I'd really rather not relive all of that, but let's be honest when it comes to Bill Clinton's choices.
Do you mean by Bill Clinton or in general? I would say the press and the Republican party treated Monica horribly and objectified her sexually. Many have argued the power dynamics made the relationship inappropriate, and Bill should have known better. But younger women, and men, have been attracted to powerful older people since time immemorial— both sexually and otherwise. The attraction to an older powerful, mature male figure is understandable; even if we find aspects distasteful. If Hillary was mistreated it was by a husband, who like many, was unfaithful and dishonest with her. She seems to have made peace with that or decided the advantages of staying were worth more than a divorce.
The Republican Party treated Monica Lewinsky horribly? Are you kidding? It was Clinton and Democrats who discarded Monica Lewinsky like yesterday's rubbish. Lewinsky was a subordinate in the workplace. Clinton was effectively her boss. Clinton manipulated her, bestowing benefits on her, to have an affair with her. And you are blaming Lewinsky for Clinton's transgression that would have gotten him fired at virtually every company in the country that has an HR department? And let's not forget Clinton lied under oath about the affair. You don't get a pass to lie under oath because you are covering up a sexual affair.
My initial comment below was meant for Tom D and accidentally got posted under your comment.
Sorry I disagree. Clinton’s behavior did not pave the way for Felon Trump. Clinton wanted to keep his private life separate from his Presidency. With Felon Trump, power and power over anyone was more important than the Presidency, it was just the means to his ends. You can’t go back to the past and reassign conditions with current mores. There is a term for that action Cognitive Dissonance.
I don't know, I don't think an affair with an employee intern in the White House is private life. Take that to a private place with a person from private life if you want to be private.
Wait. Remember the time when it happened. It should have been a big deal then but it wasn’t. Clinton always said that he compartmentilized, if that is such a word, parts of his world. He saw it as private, not me; I say it was detestable then as now. He did this throughout his career, and would have continued until his heart issue probably stopped him. We have come along way from that time, and we need to go further so this never happens again.
Wait, Monica Lewinsky was a subordinate in the workplace. Clinton was effectively her boss. Clinton gave out favors to her in exchange for sex. It was not just Clinton being "immoral" or the Republicans scoring "political points." What Clinton did would get a person fired from pretty much any company with an HR Department.
And at the same time New Gingrich was having an affair with a congressional staffer who was 22 years younger than him who is now his 3rd wife. Which is exactly the same thing Bill Clinton did. I haven’t seen you making the same arguments or having the same outrage against him. But once again my comment about people wanting to have sex with and get favors from powerful older men stands. The incentives in these relationships go both ways. Arguments for morality don’t always play well with human nature and desires.
Monica was not mistreated in any way. Hillary was.
Are you kidding? Clinton was her boss. Lewinsky was a 22 year old intern. Clinton took advantage of the situation to have a sexual affair, bestowing benefits on Lewinsky in the process. Lewinsky was taken advantage off and discarded by the Clintons and Democrats. Today, most Democrats admit they were wrong in how they treated Lewinsky at the time.
I distinctly remember that she came on to him first. Yes, he absolutely shouldn't have gone there.
There is absolutely no way to know who came on to who. We don't know what people do or say behind closed doors. I wouldn't know this about a couple I knew well, so there's no way we could know it about someone we've never met personally.
If the government hires a guy named Ken Starr to find out the details? I seem to recall reading that detail somewhere.
At any rate, adult people, both married and unmarried, at work and not at work, of the same age and of different ages, do have sex on occasion.
Monica has framed that story differently. She was there.
She was a 23 year old intern who made the first moves in a workplace affair. Where do we feel sorry for her?
Whoah... lots to unpack.
We can start by examining the power dynamics and why any respectable workplace has policies against a boss/employee relationship. "Inappropriate" is probably the kindest way to put it.
You can then take a look at the lives each were allowed to lead once the dust had settled. Clinton has gone on to receive accolades, ran alongside his wife for multiple public offices, and has been made a very rich man. All this while Lewinsky was mostly a pariah and lived a life of shame until finding her voice and an audience that recognized the power structures that enable men to use (young) women and throw them to the wolves.
This, unlike Epstein, is all public record.
Thank you J S. I can't believe people are actually attacking Lewinsky.
Have you ever offered to fellate your boss? I haven't. Why would Monica not blame that horrible woman who convinced her to publicize the blue dress? That you land on "inappropriate" makes my case. Yes it was.
She was 22 and Clinton was 49. Clinton was her boss. Clinton took advantage of that fact. And you don't think that's wrong?
Please see my above comment which got attached to the wrong commenter on Hillary’s being mistreated.
The right wing is thrilled to pass around pictures of Clinton, and I believe if he has done anything prosecutable, let them prosecute. I joked to my Trump friend when she did that that now I’ll have to get rid of my Clinton hat, my Clinton shirt, my Clinton Bible, my $2,000 Clinton Bible, and my Clinton crypto coins. She has apparently blocked me on Facebook. Oh well, we’ve only been friends since we were 3.
It's so insane, isn't it? They definitely don't hold themselves to the same standard they expect of everyone else.
With friends like that.....
Exactly.
For me, someone who watched closely 8 years of how Fox News covered for Trump and vilified the Dems, there are some Holy Grails in the GOP belief system. One is that Bill Clinton is patient zero of the liberal black plague that invaded our country. Therefore, he can be brought up as an example, blamed for nearly everything in our country, the poster child for characterless political leaders....etc.
Bill and Hillary are the black holes of the GOP...where the truth or light can never escape. They will always be there, like a security blanket, for the MAGA faithful to blame and feel better about themselves and still be supporting Trump.
I threw up a little in my mouth typing this...
Don’t forget George Soros, their Moriarty.
I didn't really even know who George Soros was until I started interacting with Fox News viewers posting on their articles. The funny thing is that in about 30 minutes of researching him, I ended up knowing more about him than they did. All they know is what everyone else in their media silo tells them or alludes to knowing about him. So willfully ignorant the MAGAs are.
Where was Clinton supposed to have had relations with a minor? Monica was an adult woman in a consensual relationship.
You've been keeping up on the history of this guy named Jeffrey Epstein, right? You've seen the photos of him with both Trump and Clinton (separately), yes? And you're aware both men have very public histories of womanizing, no?
NOBODY has said they have proof that either Trump or Clinton are guilty of the same or similar crimes as Epstein. The close associations look bad. If that's all it turns out to be, ok, they're just sleezy, just not criminally in this case. Hang your hat on that, I suppose...
Trump worked at having his serial marital infidelities covered in the National Enquirer. Do you think he would have a problem with mere "womanizing"?
I couldn't say what, if anything, Trump has a problem with in his choices, but I am also unaware of him having ever admitted to any wrongdoing under any circumstances.
So far, the only publicity he seems to fear is something Putin has on him and the Epstein files.
By covering, did you mean spiked? That is what he did and the owner of The National Enquirer testified to that fact.
The specific stories had to do with Karen McDougall, which Pecker paid to spike--partially at least because part of her story was that she had become pregnant by Trump and had had an abortion. Stormy Daniels was the other. Both were in the context of a political campaign.
Thanks Tom. My spelling of her name was a mistake. I should have checked.
I will have to go back and see what stories were spiked, and by whom. There was a time, perhaps prior to his political involvement, when Trump revelled in publicity of his affairs.
One of the stories were from the Playboy bunny, MacDonald. She sold her story to The Enquirer and they spiked it. The owner testified he did it as a favor for Felon Trump.
The right wing is thrilled to pass around pictures of Clinton, and I believe if he has done anything prosecutable, let them prosecute. I joked to my Trump friend when she did that that now I’ll have to get rid of my Clinton hat, my Clinton shirt, my Clinton Bible, my $2,000 Clinton watch, and my Clinton crypto coins. She has apparently blocked me on Facebook. Oh well, we’ve only been friends since we were 3.
I followed the Clinton years closely. On two occasions there were very rich men looking for dirt on Clinton, and they found plenty. Remember Paula Jones? But I never heard any story about him and young girls. Ken Starr was investigating any and everything he could use against Clinton. The Republicans and their cronies would have plastered any story, real or not, about Clinton and young girls. They wanted blood. If he is figured so prominently in the Epstein Files, I smell a foul Republican odor. Another distraction better than Gates, or Summers.
My understanding is the photos of Clinton and Trump with Epstein are circa late 90s/early 2000s, which would be right around when Jones/Lewinsky scandal(s) had either kicked off or ended. Part of the coverup concern has always been the blind eye many turned when it came to Epstein. It's also difficult to be too precise in what happened when given the incomplete public record.
Which means we wait until more information comes to light. I still go back to my above statement that the GOP was sticking to Clinton like white on rice. If there was even a whiff of talk about underage girls, there would have been an investigation by Ken Starr. And there wasn’t.
Yes, but Clinton was friends with Epstein and Trump. They were all friends.
Probably. But Clinton had spent years in politics and knew a lot about how things worked. He was a political animal. Felon Trump was not then and not today. Clinton’s friendship was not the same as Trump’s.
Expect to see a lot more pics of Bill upcoming as the Trumpian way of deflection.
The Bari Weiss takeover of 60 Minutes hits me hard. I’ve watched the show regularly since the 1970s (saying this in my best raspy old-man voice), and I’ve always considered it to be rock solid as the best of truthful and in-depth investigative journalism. With 60 Minutes corrupted, that type of journalism has taken a huge hit. And the problem goes well beyond just 60 Minutes as Trump and his allies work to reshape all media to be sympathetic to him.
My 2026 prediction is that it will be a rough year for Bari Weiss. Playing with the tiger behind bars at the Free Press is a bit different than trying to ride the tiger.
Yes, it's another loss of our collective history and the cultural ties that bind us to reality. I'm not loving alot about this brave new world.
I always watched 60 minutes as well. I especially enjoyed A Few Minutes with Andy Rooney. The problem is, 60 Minutes paved the way for the monetization of the news which plagues the media today. The news used to be more of a public service, but 60 Minutes showed that people would actually pay. Add in saint Ronnie’s dismantling of the fairness doctrine and voilà, we got Fox “News” et al. Trump is taking that to new lows.
Mike Wallace, Ed Bradley and crew along with Edward R Murrow and Walter Cronkite are turning in the graves over what has happened to the once Tiffany network of news.
Amen to that.
Me thinks it's ' purposeful '. trump says , oh that is longstanding and respectful, not
anymore, he says with glee. I swear he is a child. Pretty obvious with creating some
' fake ' cover of TIME mag, with a fake photo, he loves to denigrate/tear down. walk on
AND get some extra attention, he's simply a very tiring human, he's almost done, some flu will get him, or sciatica or blood something. what an ass
Had a dream last night, he was prone, had fallen, you see, it's time for him to go
"the peace deal between Israel and Hamas might be working less well than the administration has hoped"
"I have... ended the war in Gaza, bringing for the first time in 3,000 years peace to the Middle East" (December 17, 2025, Address to the Nation).
What does one even begin to do with this?
Well, if you're the sniveling head of an international sports organization wishing to gain influence and favor with this Nobel Prize poseur, you could conjure up a cheap, phony peace prize and give it to him.
I thought the FIFA Peace Prize Ceremony (cough, cough) the perfect Trumpian moment. Trump seized the medallion and hung it around his own neck. The only person great enough to bestow an honor on Trump is Trump.
Yah...who could've predicted that a Middle East peace deal would have issues or that Trump would tout something that isn't true?
"Don't look at me" McCain thundered from above.
Same as his bizarre claims about voter fraud. "What????"
60 MINUTES has officially been renamed THE DONALD J. TRUMP POTUS NEWS HOUR. B O Y C O T T C B S
Under the influence of Weiss, I don't expect it will take too long for 60 Minutes to not be worth 30 seconds.
And make sure your DVR is not programmed to record the Kennedy Center Honors tomorrow night. Let's get those ratings down!
When Kerry Kennedy rips those letters off the wall three years from now, I’d like to hold the ladder.
Bigly
I watched 60 minutes on Sunday and enjoyed the story from Nepal (having done the Everest trek myself as well as being a longtime mountaineer). However it seemed a bit odd that this was the lead story (was filmed 7 months ago) while there were major news events in the last week. Even more suspicious finding out they pulled the deportation story.
It's become abundantly clear over the last month - no department in this administration can be considered telling the truth. Not the Dept of Labor (employment, etc statistics), not the FDA/CDC/HHS, and certainly not the DOJ.
Trump has corrupted every part of the government.
It's almost like they are intentionally making government as dysfunctional and untrustworthy as possible so that the public will demand its termination. Norquist's "drown it", but not in a bathtub.
Their idea is that government is only valid or trustworthy if Trump runs it.
Like George Conway said in his last Podcast with Sarah: Big government was always the number one argument of conservatism. In Trump, that is what they got.
I saw him saying that, and never thought it possible that anyone with an absolute degradation of character could ever become President, that surely only good and honorable men would ever reside in the White House. Trump hasn’t made government smaller, unless by that you mean hobbled by ethics and responsibility to its electorate who do not head corporations.
The question is who "they" are.
I would like to wish everyone the happiest of holiday seasons and the very best for the new year.
Fingers crossed for the New Year... .
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." Sir Walter Scott
But the Felon has no need to practice; it is in his blood and genes. Oh, you mean the Todd Blanches of Trumpworld. OK, they do need to work on it.
One difference between Nixon’s situation and the Donald J. Trump Epstein files: Many more people have seen some or all of the Epstein documents - teams of prosecutors, representatives of the Epstein estate, victims and their lawyers. Between them, they can discern what is being held back. Keep the pressure going.
The old saying about a secret between three people ...
Another difference is that Nixon at least hired similar- competent staff.
Exactly what I was going to say! There are many people who know what is in those files and what has been whitewashed. The cover-up is going to draw more attention, not less. It screams from the rooftops that Trump committed some horrendous acts if they take this path to try and hide it. This is just dumb.
My only solace in this mess is the fact that while Trump may never get his, JD, Bondi, Miller and Blanche are all fair game for long prison terms.
Will be pre-emtively pardoned unless DJT dies first. Eagle Ed probably has them in his desk drawer now, ready to release when needed.
Even if he did it wouldn't matter, crimes this big dont just get to be waved away. You dont get to carry out a modern day trail of tears+holocaust-lite and just walk away no matter the pardon.
I don't know. If Trump goes down there is no way he will pardon those that should sink in the ship with him. However if he survives this, he will pardon them just to keep their mouths shut so they don't write a book afterwards.
If Trump pardons them, then everything should be released to the public and let the chips fall where they may
My only regret is that, sadly, I don't have the proper license to go on the hunt once the season opens.
But their preemptive pardons are coming. Book it.
Do people who screw up a "modified limited hangout" go on double secret probation?
"Their (the victims, ed.) ongoing effect on unraveling this coverup shouldn’t be underestimated. And in any case, we owe them our continued and unsparing effort to uncover the truth and achieve justice." ...to help tear down the wall of obfuscation, lies, and classic Trumpian Bull Shit that is the shifting wall of coverup and fabrications being dribbled out, bit by salacious bit.
Let's not forget their legal team or teams or reams of teams, because, Shakespeare be damned, do NOT kill all the lawyers. Is there a crowd-funding for the EVLF (Epstein Victims Legal Fund) somewhere? Or at least for one or the other victim who can not come up with enough money to join whatever law suit may become necessary to, as Ronnie Reagan said in another time and place, but also dealing with an autocratic monster, "Tear Down This Wall".
Actually there is an EVLF. It's a major part of the Epstein estate.
What do you mean by "a major part of the" Estate? Are they supporting legal investigation into Big Jeff's victims?