A lot here was telling, thanks for the detail. Game recognizes game. ZoMa is a very dangerous young man, Trump senses it, Trump likes it. The meeting showed both a very temporary shift in Trump's tone (goldfish brain) and a major scoop of sand in the gears of the Nazis wanting to scream "Socialist under every bush!"
You properly called out the Liberal bullshit about 'normalizing'. We've been whining for a decade about how 'dangerous' everything is and how helpless we are. Horseshit. "Don't talk about Trump because it will normalize him! Don't ignore Trump because it will normalize him!" Jesus Christ, we're a bunch of pansies. But it's getting better, we're in the process of being mugged by reality, as it were.
We're not simultaneously innocent, helpless puppies in a box and infinitely powerful enough to 'prevent' something. Like something 'dangerous' that might happen, for instance. The only way to defeat this Fascism is to not fear it and push back on it. Might Trump call in the Marines and slaughter 100 citizens on the Kent State green? Sure. But he's been jonesing to do that shit since forever. If it happens, things will move to a new level, and we'll have new conversations. All of a sudden "being smart" will stop being 'just pretend things aren't that bad and it'll all blow over' and become something a little more... active.
The democrats have offered nothing but criticism of Trump for 10 years. Biden won the electoral college in 2020 by 43,000 votes, a fluke win. Trump won the presidency twice, the house, senate and Supreme Court. Mamdani is offering a vision for the future. He destroyed the party’s hand picked candidate- a disgraced old pervert. It’s easy to see what works.
With no core set of beliefs except personal advantage, Trump is completely flexible in tactics - on of his strengths. His followers are drawn by disillusion with the establishment and Trump's powerful personality. He leads no real movement. It's a one-man show. Mamdani is also flexible, but also has fundamental commitments that can potentially lead a movement.
My jury is still out on how Mamdani managed the meeting with Trump. I think he had to do it and probably came away the best anyone can. But I don’t think anyone goes into the Oval Office and owns the day. Initially I thought it looked good for Mamdani but as time has gone on I think Trump is very likely to use it later to get something Mamdani doesn’t want to give up. And for me personally, the more I’ve watched this, the slimier it feels. And to speak to the comparison with Whitney that JVL, Sarah, and Tim noted in their last discussion, I think those differences may have more to do with Trump’s sexism than Mamdani’s skill with a fellow New York politainer bro.
I'm sure that Trump knows one thing that limits any threats Mamdani might pose: not being born in the US, although a citizen, he can never become President. But another dynamic that will play out over the next few years is that in part due to Trump's tariff and immigration policies, housing and home care and service costs will rise. Immigrants play a huge role in the construction, home care and many service industries (e.g. food and hotel services)- they are being thrown out of the country, and especially comprise huge parts of the work forces in NY and Florida. I'm not sure what Mamdani is thinking regarding health care but the triple assault on Medicaid, Medicare and SNAP will present new threats to New Yorkers, and everyone else.
Ok, well- get to making life in NY more affordable. I'm not exactly sure how the president, let alone mayor of NY, does that... economic populism is tricky to deliver on.
They both seem to be indulging in electoral realpolitik from very different viewpoints and value systems. If what Mamdani does works, if it trammels the heavy handed self dealing and this unitary nonsense I'll be delighted. It all seems a bit hucksterish. Glad to see him try. Nothing to lose. I can't help feeling he is normalizing the organ grinders monkey enroute to efforts at economic justice. That the monkey is smitten. . .Well, no suprise.
The thing about trump is he really just doesn't care about who his audience is as long as he has one. He sees his followers leaving and so just as he went through all the N.Y. banks to land with Deutsche Bank he will run through maga followers on to Mamdani followers. He really is a dog, barking at female reporters and going belly up to the strongmen and anyone whose mojo he wants a piece of.
Brilliantly put, as is so often the case with Will's columns.
I was impressed with Mamdani's decision to meet with Trump, and how he handled himself. This does feel different than say Gretchen Whitmer I guess because the danger felt much more real, almost existential. Trump's threatened some pretty extreme things, cutting funding and just not letting NYC "go socialist." This charm offensive was a way of fighting for New Yorkers, even if it just buys a little time.
I'm stuck on Will's line: "Why did Trump laugh off these words? Because to him words mean nothing. The only thing he respects is power." I don't want to give Trump too much power (the man is clearly in decline), but it's at least as plausible he understands that words *do* matter, and and this is about shaping how we define them. Fascism means something, or should. Mamdani calling Trump a fascist was important; Trump acting like it didn't need to be addressed implicitly drained it of its strength.
I really wish Mamdani had found a way to both work with Trump (meaning, protect New Yorkers from Trump) and still stick to the idea that Trump's a fascist and that's a serious enough accusation Trump we shouldn't just be able to shrug it off. I don't know what that would look like. Maybe it just points to the danger of people who will have to work with Trump using labels highlighting just how awful he is. But I don't think letting Trump act like the label doesn't matter is the way to do it.
That point aside, though, he really did spectacularly well in this meeting. So much better than most other people trying to work with Trump. Not bad for a first go.
I truly appreciated how Mamdani interacted with the president. Rather than focusing on issues that divide (which gets you nowhere), he focused on areas of agreement. As Mayor-elect, his role is to improve conditions in the city. Federal support is needed for that to happen. You don't get that support by encouraging divisiveness.
I don’t mean any disrespect toward Lauren, Will, but you should definitely have the Dem beat, and Lauren’s numbers show it. Make the change, Sam! Is it Sam?
A lot here was telling, thanks for the detail. Game recognizes game. ZoMa is a very dangerous young man, Trump senses it, Trump likes it. The meeting showed both a very temporary shift in Trump's tone (goldfish brain) and a major scoop of sand in the gears of the Nazis wanting to scream "Socialist under every bush!"
You properly called out the Liberal bullshit about 'normalizing'. We've been whining for a decade about how 'dangerous' everything is and how helpless we are. Horseshit. "Don't talk about Trump because it will normalize him! Don't ignore Trump because it will normalize him!" Jesus Christ, we're a bunch of pansies. But it's getting better, we're in the process of being mugged by reality, as it were.
We're not simultaneously innocent, helpless puppies in a box and infinitely powerful enough to 'prevent' something. Like something 'dangerous' that might happen, for instance. The only way to defeat this Fascism is to not fear it and push back on it. Might Trump call in the Marines and slaughter 100 citizens on the Kent State green? Sure. But he's been jonesing to do that shit since forever. If it happens, things will move to a new level, and we'll have new conversations. All of a sudden "being smart" will stop being 'just pretend things aren't that bad and it'll all blow over' and become something a little more... active.
good analysis of the power dynamic
The democrats have offered nothing but criticism of Trump for 10 years. Biden won the electoral college in 2020 by 43,000 votes, a fluke win. Trump won the presidency twice, the house, senate and Supreme Court. Mamdani is offering a vision for the future. He destroyed the party’s hand picked candidate- a disgraced old pervert. It’s easy to see what works.
With no core set of beliefs except personal advantage, Trump is completely flexible in tactics - on of his strengths. His followers are drawn by disillusion with the establishment and Trump's powerful personality. He leads no real movement. It's a one-man show. Mamdani is also flexible, but also has fundamental commitments that can potentially lead a movement.
My jury is still out on how Mamdani managed the meeting with Trump. I think he had to do it and probably came away the best anyone can. But I don’t think anyone goes into the Oval Office and owns the day. Initially I thought it looked good for Mamdani but as time has gone on I think Trump is very likely to use it later to get something Mamdani doesn’t want to give up. And for me personally, the more I’ve watched this, the slimier it feels. And to speak to the comparison with Whitney that JVL, Sarah, and Tim noted in their last discussion, I think those differences may have more to do with Trump’s sexism than Mamdani’s skill with a fellow New York politainer bro.
Mamdani is afforded the respect of any person who runs for office in a functioning 2+ party system.
It’s a heavy lift to break a boundary and then get back to business. So far, so good!
Diplomacy is always good.
NYC- I might have been there a dozen times, probably 3 dozen. And I never return without a story about the genuine uniqueness of New Yorkers.
I may live in a ‘flyover’ state, but I do love that city.
Both are hucksters who came to power because the Dem party establishment fielded weak candidates. No mystery as to why they got along.
Game knows game.
I'm sure that Trump knows one thing that limits any threats Mamdani might pose: not being born in the US, although a citizen, he can never become President. But another dynamic that will play out over the next few years is that in part due to Trump's tariff and immigration policies, housing and home care and service costs will rise. Immigrants play a huge role in the construction, home care and many service industries (e.g. food and hotel services)- they are being thrown out of the country, and especially comprise huge parts of the work forces in NY and Florida. I'm not sure what Mamdani is thinking regarding health care but the triple assault on Medicaid, Medicare and SNAP will present new threats to New Yorkers, and everyone else.
Ok, well- get to making life in NY more affordable. I'm not exactly sure how the president, let alone mayor of NY, does that... economic populism is tricky to deliver on.
They both seem to be indulging in electoral realpolitik from very different viewpoints and value systems. If what Mamdani does works, if it trammels the heavy handed self dealing and this unitary nonsense I'll be delighted. It all seems a bit hucksterish. Glad to see him try. Nothing to lose. I can't help feeling he is normalizing the organ grinders monkey enroute to efforts at economic justice. That the monkey is smitten. . .Well, no suprise.
The thing about trump is he really just doesn't care about who his audience is as long as he has one. He sees his followers leaving and so just as he went through all the N.Y. banks to land with Deutsche Bank he will run through maga followers on to Mamdani followers. He really is a dog, barking at female reporters and going belly up to the strongmen and anyone whose mojo he wants a piece of.
Did he say specifically how he agreed with Trump on business regulations given that Trump doesn't believe in them at all?
Brilliantly put, as is so often the case with Will's columns.
I was impressed with Mamdani's decision to meet with Trump, and how he handled himself. This does feel different than say Gretchen Whitmer I guess because the danger felt much more real, almost existential. Trump's threatened some pretty extreme things, cutting funding and just not letting NYC "go socialist." This charm offensive was a way of fighting for New Yorkers, even if it just buys a little time.
I'm stuck on Will's line: "Why did Trump laugh off these words? Because to him words mean nothing. The only thing he respects is power." I don't want to give Trump too much power (the man is clearly in decline), but it's at least as plausible he understands that words *do* matter, and and this is about shaping how we define them. Fascism means something, or should. Mamdani calling Trump a fascist was important; Trump acting like it didn't need to be addressed implicitly drained it of its strength.
I really wish Mamdani had found a way to both work with Trump (meaning, protect New Yorkers from Trump) and still stick to the idea that Trump's a fascist and that's a serious enough accusation Trump we shouldn't just be able to shrug it off. I don't know what that would look like. Maybe it just points to the danger of people who will have to work with Trump using labels highlighting just how awful he is. But I don't think letting Trump act like the label doesn't matter is the way to do it.
That point aside, though, he really did spectacularly well in this meeting. So much better than most other people trying to work with Trump. Not bad for a first go.
What a great insightful piece! Sounds like Mamdani read the assignment exactly right.
I truly appreciated how Mamdani interacted with the president. Rather than focusing on issues that divide (which gets you nowhere), he focused on areas of agreement. As Mayor-elect, his role is to improve conditions in the city. Federal support is needed for that to happen. You don't get that support by encouraging divisiveness.
I don’t mean any disrespect toward Lauren, Will, but you should definitely have the Dem beat, and Lauren’s numbers show it. Make the change, Sam! Is it Sam?