372 Comments

Jenna Ellis' court-read teary excuse for her actions essentially boils down to "I was too young, ambitious, and starry-eyed to worry my pretty little Christian head about truth."

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She falls back on her Christian values in her statement, like that somehow makes her a more sympathetic figure. It makes her look worse.

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Twisted belief in 'God' will be the death of us all.

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So true. What does Christian values mean nowadays? Hate all non-whites and all non-"Christians". Lie, cheat and steal to achieve your goals. Complete disregard for Democratic values.

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Don't they all do that, though? They're basically required to by the base.

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I always fall back on Tom Nichols' take of The Screwtape Letters: "Convincing humans to do evil in the name of the Enemy is still one of our finest maneuvers, and you will find it highly enjoyable."

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"Karma is only a bitch if you are."

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Come to think of it, Anakin would be at home in today's GOP: resentful, arrogant, appreciates nothing, Manichean thinking, etc.

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“Cloying” might be a good word.

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Many of these White evangelicals need a hard slap by reality to realize Trump is the piper who led them away from the flock.

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Psalm 10 gives the perfect description of Donald J. Trump. Sad!

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Completely agree. See my previous comment in re Huckabee Sanders and McEnany. But it's also important -- and dare I say, just and fair -- to remember that there are many people of faith -- Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist -- who are routinely and without fanfare feeding people, helping immigrants, providing affordable or free healthcare, teaching ESL classes, visiting lonely people in nursing homes, being camp counselors for disadvantaged kids, advocating for prisoners, and working for peace. If anyone thinks they don't know any "religious" people like that, it might be because *these* religious people are not calling attention to themselves. They're too busy.

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Yeah it’s what makes her look so much worse in my eyes. I lack belief but if she is such a believer, she should have been better than to do what she was doing. Don’t hide behind your claims of piety when you’re confessing your wickedness.

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

I have heard these hypocrites referred to as "ChristianISTS." As good a word as any to differentiate them from the many Christians who still do obey the 10 Commandments, and have no problem calling Trump "evil."

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Exactly. It’s nauseating and completely predictable.

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Jenna Ellis, and Mike Johnson, have no Christian values. Christianity is what you do ("Love thy neighbor"), not what you say. By their deeds ye shall know them.

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Yea, we’ll mark meadows was also a pretend Christian, I know as he was my supposed rep

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Or, as "I'm sorry I got caught and didn't think I'd actually have to accept responsibility for my actions." Like the others who have flipped, it's safe to assume she is caving only because she can find no other way out of the box that she got herself into. If it were a class it would be Conservatism 101: Choices and Consequences.

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Fighting off tears, she still was trying to ditch responsibility by saying “those older, wiser guys I deferred to got me into this”. Her tears were for herself having been caught. Maybe she’ll one day grow up morally. Maybe. Or, she’ll wipe the glycerin out of her eyes and rejoice that she dodged THAT bullet. Her call.

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She said that if she knew then what she knows now, she wouldn't have done it. My immediate thought (after the facepalm) was the only thing she knows now and not then was the risk of getting caught.

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Truly, "Tears from Heaven" *Eric Clapton

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Maybe caving because she’s out of money and Trump threw her under the bus. But she’d sell herself again given a chance, as all the flippers would.

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"I've committed a crime.I've broken the law" *Simon and Garfunkel "Wednesday morning 3 A.M."

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"Was it something that somebody said? Honey you know I broke the rules". *The Band "Ophelia"

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I need your Playlist!

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Its quite vast.

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The great orange god hasn’t faced any consequences yet!

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Tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock, ...

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Ellis is pushing 40. She is not young.

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All the more reason to consider her "excuse" as lame and essentially dishonest. I cannot believe that she was unaware of all the legal objections WITHIN the Trump administration to what she had to have known were objectively dodgey assertions publicly made by herself. Christian forgiveness is predicated on an honest confession of one's sins followed by repentance, i.e., an honest effort to change one's behavior. It is clear she has not yet met those conditions.

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Don't forget, true repentance also requires restitution. Don't see any of that. :)

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I'm thinking of a phrase; a non apology, apology.

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At 72, I suggest we consider redefining adulthood as occurring later in life and in stages. I suggest assigning 1/2 an adult voice at age 29, the 3/4 at 39 and only at 50 as full voice.

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And Jenna Ellis is 1/4 (sorry, not to scale)

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Funny how badly these professed Christians behave.

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Susan Huckabee Sanders and Kayleigh McEnany both got on my last nerve in the worst way with their professions of faith and wearing their little crosses, and their rudeness (Sanders) and their constant lying (McEnany). And I'm a Christian.

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I am a Catholic, so feel that many Christians don't actually count us. Still, thinking especially of the sermon on the mount, they all would benefit from meditating on the meaning of blessed are the poor in spirit.

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Jenna Ellis will be 40 next year.

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She's not a child, but she's old enough to know better.

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What she is is a dope.

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"Stupid is as stupid does" That great philosopher Forrest Gump

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She's actually old enough to be the parent of an adult child. So there's that.

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She's reprehensible. And I'm past the point of being sick and tired of degenerates like Ellis evoking Christ to provide a veneer of respectability for their other deplorable actions.

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While she may be pretty old for an NFL quarterback, in lawyer years, she would meet the eligibility requirements for my state’s young lawyer division (which, of course, assumes she gets to keep her bar card)

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Say that again when you're 65. ;D

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Or 71

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Evangelicals love themselves a sinner. They will forgive Jenna.

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The "Evangelicals" who support Trump will not forgive her for the lies she told. They will condemn her for abandoning those lies and betraying their Orange Messiah.

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Snippet of an actual conversation with a "friend" who turned evangelical.

She: "I'm sorry you lost your faith in God".

Me: " I didn't lose my faith in God. I lost my faith in people who call themselves Christian and support Trump and MAGA."

I haven't heard from her in over a year.

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I think that the MAGAS don't care about what Trump is (a truly despicable human being). That is what happen with cults. Remember all the other evangelist cults in the past: they were rotten to the core, but they became millionaires due to their followers. Now, the thing is that they can see a possibility for a Theocracy. A Theocracy where women would lose all their rights, the same as blacks, other minorities and gays. Just because "it is in the Bible". I forgot, they would like to abolish science and great literature. Gosh, I feel as if we were going back to the Middle Ages and The Inquisition. However, there has been a lot of water under the bridge, and I hope that these forces don't succeed.

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"Father of Lies" is a nickname of a supernatural entity. I'm not sure these evangelicals are actually worshipping who they think they are.

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That's always struck me about the Evangelicals. What would they call a group of people who worshipped a person (an entity, a being) who promises them everything they want on Earth, who will smite their enemies in their name and who asks nothing of them but their love?

And what might that being's name be?

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Actual Christians' guy was offered this very choice. He turned down wordly power. I'm sure there's a lesson there somewhere. :)

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No. It might help if you consulted the primary sources.

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This!

They already forgave (championed, disseminated, embellished, weaponized) the lies. Her ticket to excommunication from both MAGA and evangelical Christianity was bought when she appeared disloyal and unfaithful.

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With apologies to Peter Wehner and David French, who appear to be genuinely good people, Evangelicals are horrendous and have done more damage to the Church than any atheist or liberal.

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I think that more non-MAGA evangelicals need to speak up. Much like most moderates when extremists in their midst are too many, too vocal and too deleteriously active.

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Doing my best, though I no longer call myself that. "Evangelical" used to refer to a set of Christian beliefs that were more moderate and scientifically informed than "Fundamentalist", but the term "Evangelical" was coopted by Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson etc. since "Fundamentslist" was not, as Falwell would say, "Media savvy."

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Same here. It's hard going, sometimes. Your Evangelical family and friends think you have "fallen away" and everyone else already knows what they know about Christians and Christianity, or religion generally.

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Thank you. I will admit a certain level of discomfort to say Evangelical because there are many that do not subscribe to the MAGA position. But my experience has been that they can be rather passionate and a bit insular and vocal in their views. I'd say MAGA evangelicals, but I don't even know what they believe, with respect to religion. Good with dealing with the coopting of that term.

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"Will You still love tomorrow" *Carol King

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Ambition and the lack of a moral compass typically leads to where Ellis has landed.

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These are the sort of people drawn to Trump: mediocrities with more ambition than talent, self-awareness, or integrity.

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Or intelligence, or common sense.

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Exactly.

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Too bad it doesn't land her in Ellis island.

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Right. Apparently that whole "Christian" thing, in her minds, does not require actually knowing what Christ stood for.

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That's very true as their evangelical theology only requires that they profess their faith - no other action or knowledge is required. Their faith will excuse any immorality, sin, or crime as long as they say they are Christians. An atheist, like myself, who lives a largely moral life - faithful in marriage, responsible financially, charitable, law-abiding, etc. is inherently evil and irredeemable but a professed "Christian" can continually commit heinous crimes (Josh Dugger) and/or public immorality (Roy Moore, Ted Haggard and innumerable others) and be considered "good people." It works much like the MAGA cult, loyalty and faith is all, principle means less than nothing, and moral and courageous acts are equivalent to shitting on the altar.

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I agree Cynthia: My husband and I live a moral life and are happy, free of religious dogmas. I am a scientist and prefer to know than to believe. We adhere to humanistic values. I raised my daughter with my ex-husband, her father without any religion. She is also agnostic or atheist at 42 and very successful in her career. Her coworkers love her for her humanity and empathy.

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I have confidence that a Sydney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro will abide by the terms of their plea agreement: they seem to be looking out for their own best interests.

With Jenna Ellis, I'm not so sure. She plays up being a "Christian" so much that it makes me doubt her sincerity. (Having spent 20 years in the Charismatic movement, I saw how the gospel got perverted.) Christianity SHOULD be about truth, equity and justice. However, American Christianity has become more about "Facts don't matter; it's what you BELIEVE!"

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"Cry me a river"

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Well said

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What could possibly go wrong?

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I think the castigation is justified. I also think your points about the people around the former president are well thought out. I just read a Politico article about Mitt Romney and the former president, why he had a campaign event during his own presidential run in a Trump hotel in Las Vegas, and why he entertained the idea that he could be Secretary of State in the Trump Administration. Different reasons for different events. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/24/orphaned-by-mccarthy-california-republicans-stand-alone-00123390?nname=california-playbook&nid=00000150-384f-da43-aff2-bf7fd35a0000&nrid=69dafda7-cfc0-4b1e-90dc-b63392b2048d&nlid=641189

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Is it time for Weird Al?

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It's always time for Weird Al!

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"And another one gone, and another one gone, and another one bites the dust."

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Everything’s strange when you’re a stranger.

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As the mother of four (!) college students who are Gen Z, I have to say that the barrage of coverage by the Bulwark regarding their generation's pro Hamas position is troubling to me.

What I worry most about is that all of this coverage seems to uplift what I believe to be a minority in their generation.

Regarding the Harvard nonsense that's been covered widely in the news, I think we all understand today that Harvard is... what's the word again? Oh yes, overrated. I mean, how.many bat shit crazy attorneys have graduated from this supposed elite institution?

You see the parallels?

We cannot blanket an entire generation (or a university) with what are gross generalizations that are derived from a small number.

Oh yes, and the human brain is not fully formed until the mid twenties. Let's give these people time to experiment and learn. That's something this Gen Xer got (thank God) prior to social media and doxxing.

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Exactly. There is a danger in trying to turn the exception into the rule, especially when others take that ball and run with it from their own personal passions. I got flogged in this space yesterday by someone for daring to suggest that freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Constitution, even when we find the message abhorrent, to the point that he got worked up into a lather in labeling me anti-Jewish ("you don’t like Israel and ... you think the Palestinian cause is just; that their attack on Israel was justified.") -- which, of course, I never said, much less even thought. It was a case study in a discussion going off the rails when someone can't accept truth over opinion.

For the record, I am as appalled by the pro-Hamas positions and statements as anyone else and do not subscribe to them in any way, shape, or form. But I also wonder how many respondents to a poll, young people in particular, know and understand exactly what Hamas is, what they represent, what their tactics have been over time, and how that impacts the Middle East peace process. I'd wager that, to some, Palestine = Hamas = Arafat = it's all the same. We shouldn't assume knowledge on their part just because they answer some questions. I've argued for taking these issues on a case-by-case basis and trying to engage in productive dialogue rather than going off on them with a "you're wrong, and here's why" approach. Anyone who has endured raising teenagers, and sees college kids in their natural environment, understands that one of those approaches is more likely to get them to cooperate and the other is more likely to get them to dig in their heels, fight harder, and engage more in the behavior that is objectionable. Let's all be smarter than that and use our maturity and intelligence to give guidance as the best tools in our belt.

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This, exactly. My kids are 23 & 27. It’s easy to make Israel/Palestine a black & white issue, until you really study the history, and the actors (which most youth have not). Then it all gets very murky, until something like Sabra/Shatila (Israel’s invasion of Lebanon in 1978 & the Lebanese Falange slaughter of refugee Palestinians) or Hamas’ actions on 10/7 occurs. However wrong Israeli treatment of Palestinians may be, nothing justifies Hamas’ actions. 10/7 was the definition of a war crime, and it’s cowardly not to admit it.

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There is a very good reason I don't touch this topic with a ten foot pole.

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I may have to buy another membership to ‘like’ this comment a second time. We send our kids off to college but don’t want them to develop new opinions (again we may all feel those opinions are wrong but that’s not the point.)

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Wait...weren't we told repeatedly that the youths were the ones to listen to about BLM, the environment, etc?

Always fun to see the same people who claim the youth movement is the correct one, turn on a dime and say...No, they're wrong on this, they're just young, don't listen to them.

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I don't see how it's a contradiction to say the majority polled response of young people is right sometimes and wrong sometimes. It also seems like most of the commenters here agree that we have a responsibility here to learn and teach. I don't comment much on international geopolitics because what I know about it could fit into a thimble. It doesn't take a lot of education to say "Police brutality is bad."

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And climate change is real.

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Police brutality is bad? What? But what about crime, people murdered, children killed, “my uncle being knocked down in a parking lot and almost dying for the $7.00 in his wallet.” Are you supporting all of that?

Oh, wait, you mean having two opposing ideas in your head at the same time. Can we even do that?

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Police brutality is bad. That doesn't mean that anything else that is brutal is good. Why try to start an argument about something that wasn't said in that first sentence?

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I agree.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of saying the youth are absolutely the correct ones on one subject - simply because of their youth - but not the other.

You can’t insist that they are “enlightened” and “morally better” and “more knowledgable of issues”(which was thrown around by many on the left on BLM, how to deal with the environment, etc) and then spin around and say “They’re young, they don’t know anything so don’t listen to them.”

Examples:

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/22/the-guardian-view-on-us-gun-laws-listen-to-teenagers-not-trump

https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/2021/11/30/listen-to-the-youth-how-global-leaders-can-solve-climate-chaos/

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I’ve really enjoy a lot of your comments. I find them judicious and informed. I just wanted to tell you as I am not renewing my subscription for several reasons. I find JV and Tim very entertaining and like them, but I basically see the world a little differently than they do. I moved to Italy 15 years ago at age 63 to get away from politics(mostly conservatives😊) ,and after a year I’m going back to my pre bulwark existance. Keep up the good work.

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Arrivederci e buona fortuna, signor!

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Thanks for the compliment, Mark, and for your explanation. We're sorry to lose you but understand also that as circumstances change and lives evolve, other doors open up and sometimes take us down alternative pathways, other times full-circle toward where we started. I've enjoyed and appreciated your participation in our group.

Noting that you have some living experience in Germany in your background ... Ihnen wünsche ich alles Gute für den Übergang in den nächsten, erfüllten Lebensabschnitt und hoffe sehr, dass sich unsere Wege wieder kreuzen werden, wenn sich die Gelegenheit ergibt.

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I would venture that the Freedumb Caucus holds Hamas up as its inspiration and template for what it thinks governing is supposed to look like.

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Now you know how Mr. Guteres feels.😊

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I’m not one to criticize the UN here.

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Charlie also writes about this as if nothing is happening and there are no consequences. These dopes at Harvard are losing employment opportunities. An actual full-fledged adult who sent a trove of anti-Semitic garbage to a Jewish biglaw social media influencer was instantly fired by the Illinois state comptroller's office. Donors are pulling checks from universities. So....in many ways, the F*ck Around and Find Out system is working pretty well when it comes to voicing support for Hamas.

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Yeah, I think Charlie in particular leans on the moral depravity of young people waaaay too much, esp re Israel/Palestine.

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He could at least be balanced and cover young conservatives as well. Wouldnt you like to know what they think about Jewish people? Spoiler, it can be pretty disturbing. But we don’t pretend those people represent all republicans right?

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I don’t think most Americans understand just why Evangelicals support Israel so much. And they might be horrified if they did.

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I’m not sure I understand that well enough either to be honest

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If we could only get Ron D. in the presidency he’d clam down on all these bad ideas warping our youth on these illiberal left breeding grounds we call college campuses.

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New College grad here.

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This castigating the college leftie young ‘uns reminds me a bit of how all Democrats got tarred with the “Defund The Police” slogan, even though it was fairly fringe.

I wonder if the college students are recycling a rebellious anti-establishment rhetoric, familiar through history.

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Yep,tarring and feathering your political opponents with simplistic campaign slogans and soundbites.Has worked pretty well for Republicans for lets say, about 30 years.

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Which brings up my inner monologue of ethical quandary: should the Democrats try the same strategy of short, simplistic, memorable slogans, since it seems to be effective? It seems like dumbing down the debate, but winning is an existential necessity.

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I think the Dems base is too diverse. It reminds me of someone saying (in the day) that you couldn’t buy Bill Clinton because he took money from everyone on every issue.

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Hmm, I hadn’t thought about the advantages of a homogeneous audience for effectiveness of slogans . . . and the inverse. Diversity does present a quandary for Democrats, on many levels. I think a Parliamentary system might be more flexible in that regard.

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YES. Plus, unlike when I was on campus 35 years ago, Palestinians are being taken more seriously, often by Jewish students, who support Palestinian equity and justice.

I think 10/7 is still surrounded by information, misinformation, and disinformation, and people, esp pro-Pal young people, need to sort through what’s real and what isn’t. That’s partly why the fight over the “baby question” both matters and is so repugnant.

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I’m not sure what the “baby question” is, but I can guess.

I haven’t heard any assessment of what information about 10/7 is being received by Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere. It seems relevant.

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Yes. American media coverage of the issues are an inch wide and 1/4 inch deep.

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Batshit Crazy Harvard grads Sounds like an "Animal House"type movie in the making! Starring Ted Cruz,Josh Hawley and John K.Kenedy

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"Our voters have spoken! They want us to make it harder for them to vote!"

"There are no rules that say we can't nominate the ghost of Jeb Stuart!"

"Quick, check Cruz's briefcase for plane tickets to Mexico!"

"Sorry, I don't answer calls that originate from Florida."

Damn, this thing writes itself.

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The news today sure ripe for the picking.

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I agree. Young people need a cause, they want to rebel and try to be "different". I am not condoning their ignorant position. Let them be though. They don't really understand what HAMAS is. They think that it is the same as all Palestinians. They don't understand that Palestinians would do better without HAMAS. HAMAS only want to kill all Israelis no matter the cost. And yes, it is true that Israel in order to survive has done things that are not commendable. I am pro-Israel, pro-Palestinian and against HAMAS. I am also not fond of Bibi.. Human suffering should never be acceptable.

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If they don’t know what or who Hamas is, then should that really be their “cause”? One would think if they wanted a cause they would learn about the cause in advance and not support Hamas who would have zero respect for anyone who’s not willing to live in their culture.

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51% is not exactly a minority. Ahh, yes, lets protect our children and let them grow into democracy. They'll come around!

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In fact many do, as they get more out into the real world and assume adult responsibilities. How many things did you say and do when you were 18 that you'd look back on now and, if you're honest about it, say were pretty dumb or immature? Welcome to the club.

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

The thing is, 18 year olds that may grow up to look back on their prior views can still vote *today* based on those yet-to-regret views. As we've seen particularly recently, each vote can have drastic and lasting consequences.

We don't need to create an overhyped moral panic about every bad idea a teenager or college student has, but if we don't talk about it, we can't organize to address it. Youth are entitled to their opinions and to vote accordingly. Likewise, we are all entitled to share our opinion about their opinions with a hope of opening their eyes to facts and perspectives they may not have been exposed to or given much consideration. In that regard, someone has to say something.

The beauty of it all is that youth say what they think, Charlies says what he thinks about it, you say what you think regarding his thoughts, and the rest of us weigh-in on all of it. Everyone should continue to express their ideas so that everyone can learn and grow.

P.S. - Personally, while I experienced my share of exposure to radical ideas during college, I think social media (coupled with poor understanding of government and history) has more to do with the rapid spread of bad ideas. The internet + social media has and will continue to have substantial influence over the direction of humanity and societal cohesion.

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Completely correct on the social media and poor understanding of history / civics. I'd also add in the lack of real consequences for their actions throughout much of their life thus far. Actions have consequences and I hope those who have made some of these extremely poor decisions learn from them. That being said, it takes all of us as a society (family, friends, colleagues, teachers ect) to inform them that they made poor decisions and WHY they made them. I fear we have far too few people willing to do that.

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"the lack of real consequences for their actions throughout much of their life thus far"

Yeah, I've long though of college as "Adult Light". It's where heretofore children that are now technically adult get to live a pseudo-independent life with the appearance and impression of adulthood (e.g., may no longer live at home, get to choose whether to go to class, etc.) while often having little to no life responsibility yet. It's not until the rubber meets the road that the true realities of adulthood show themselves.

Of course, there are mature 16-year olds, immature 50-year olds; educated youth and ignorant elderly; morally depraved Christians and deeply moral atheists. Humanity runs the gamut of it all. When it comes to humans, valid generalizations are hard to make. To quote Moe Szyslak, "Call this an unfair generalization if you must, but old people are no good at everything." Likewise with youth and ignorance/foolishness.

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Some folks are born much older (sometimes much, much older) than their chronological age. In general they are not happy people, not having had to learn how to play well with others.

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I call them old souls. They often feel out of place among their own age groups but when they get out into the more adult world they find their places and come to recognize and maybe even celebrate the fact that their old souls helped them to navigate the world easier than those without them.

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Didn't Dan Drezner say that kids that go to college are making their mistakes in public and then correct course later?

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Dan is right in my experience, especially with this issue.

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But they can vote now.

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And so could we, in our idiot youth.

I’m not trying to wish away a problem. I’m just tired of division and blame and judgment. Probably cave people, at the ripe old age of 25, sat around and bitched about the moral rot of 14 y.o.s because the kids preferred to spend their time cave painting instead of hunting.

Israeli/Palestinian issues are really easy to take righteous moral stands (on either side!) until you take a deep dive into the context of the last 100 years. Then it gets murky as hell until a war crime occurs. 10/7 is one such.

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It's really unfortunate that Palestinian women have essentially no power because the endless sectarian war in Northern Ireland was essentially ended by the 'mothers movement'. It stopped when mothers on both sides said 'enough!' and showed they had overwhelming support to end the murderous nonsense.

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It is a vanishingly small, but loud minority. There is however, a tendency to conflate opposition to Israel's current form of government, occupation of Palestinian territories, and general brutal opposition to any form of two or one state solution with support for Hamas and antisemitism. It's reflexive, and honestly unsurprising from Charlie. Others have somewhat more nuanced approaches.

I find myself skimming over much of what he has to say on the subject as his tendency is to harangue the entirety of the left for the actions of its most radical activists. I think of it as a learned response from years of operating in right wing media, where this is just what you do. Support for Israel is so automatic and uncritical that any opposition is labeled as support for terrorism.

For what it's worth, I find the explicitly pro-Hamas views at best ill-conceived. I think Israel has a right to exist - but not as an apartheid state, no state DOES. I hope for a one-state solution in which Palestinians are granted equal citizenship and rights as their Israeli neighbors, complete with full participation in the political process. If that is impossible, which I doubt, they deserve a country of their own, with contiguous borders and control over their own destiny. No people, no matter how significant their historical suffering, have the right to keep another imprisoned and disenfranchised within their own land. Hamas is a horrific organization whos actions I unreservedly condemn, one that Netanyahu and his allies have explicitly propped up as part of their strategy to render a two-state solution impossible. My source for that claim is not some far-flung blog, but Haaretz, and Netanyahu's own words on the matter as he funneled billions in Qatari money to Hamas for those specific ends. Israelis did not deserve 10/7, but their government, through ill-conceived policies aimed at perpetuating an untenable status quo, helped it happen. If you listen to many Israelis who are opposed to the occupation, they will tell you the same.

I'd like to see more acknowledgment of that uncomfortable reality, and less monomaniacal focus on bashing kids whose frontal lobes haven't even fully developed yet.

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THANK YOU for such a thoughtful comment!

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A minority?

Polls show those under 35 support for Palestinian actions as well above 40%, and in some cases above 50%. Hardly the tiny fraction you are suggesting.

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Now this is what democracy looks like

Not what you all had in mind for tonight

Mr. Mayor, shell-shocked for 5 days straight

Press conference, lookin' constipated and pale

Tossed a homie in jail, wasn't even protesting

Wrong place, wrong time, learned a quick lesson

-Blue Scholars (50 Thousand Deep)

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No one has a clue what the word genocidal means. Let's start with that premise.

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

Kudos to Will Saletan for his analysis of our treatment of the Gaza Health Ministry as a news source. It breaks a big issue down into small chunks and goes through them step by step. It emphasizes facts and logic rather than emotion. And it focuses on our responsibility in interpreting sources like this, rather than trying to find saints and bogeymen in Gaza. Not only a good explainer, but also a good role model -- just the sort of thing we need more of.

(That I couldn't figure out for myself in the early days that "Gaza Health Ministry" meant "Hamas" -- with or without the guidance of the MSM -- still feels sobering. So I can use all the help I can get.)

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I notice that news outlets are starting to say "Hamas-led" or equivalent as a modifier for any Gaza organization. They seem to have gotten the message about meaningful sourcing.

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Some have, but not all (cough cough Washington Post...)

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How do we treat the Israelis,” there’s no humanitarian crisis in Gaza,they’re fine.” There is always propaganda in war. When is Will going to cover Israel’s propaganda,and there is enough beside trying to intimidate anyone who has some sympathy for Palestinian suffering. Most people commenting,including the bulwark,have limited knowledge or are biased.

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(1) I don't know who you think you're quoting; nobody that I know of has said that and it certainly wasn't in this article.

(2) Why people expect every single article to cover every single possible point all at once is beyond my ability to comprehend.

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Where have you heard that?

I've seen the Israelis discuss what Hamas has stockpiled. I've not heard from them or anyone that the average Gazan has what they need.

The civilians in Gaza - Palestinians and anyone else - need and deserve help, but I can't "both sides" this. Israel's target is Hamas, not Palestinians as a people. Hamas needs to be fought and, if possible, destroyed as a threat, and the Israelis are attempting to do that.

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51% of 18-24 year olds believe the slaughtering of Israeli citizens is justified. Remind me again how the left doesn't have a problem with illiberalism? Remind me how we can ignore this, because something, something, MAGA(!), look the other way? Yes, the far-right is a clear and present danger to democracy, and MAGA must be vanquished. But, but, we can pay no attention to these numbers, because why? Isn't this place the Bulwark? You know, the place where people from the center-left and center-right can come together and reject all forms of illiberalism? Are we on the side of democracy, or on the side of partisans here?

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I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I am alarmed at the propaganda being aimed at young people through TikTok and Snapchat. I hate to talk about banning TikTok, but I am constantly alarmed by how young people source their news.

Yes, I think it's our job to pay attention and educate where we can. Young people are full of passion and impatience, but not necessarily full of facts.

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I don't share with you the call to limit what can be said in some of the instances you've described, but I do share that propaganda has become a threat. I think calling it what it is and laying out examples, educating, is better than limiting speech. But I will admit some misinformation will be embedded for a long time even in the presence of concrete facts.

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Dare say no better time than the present to have those conversations.

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Given what we know about the difficulties of polling, why are you placing such faith in that 51% figure?

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Got it. No illiberalism to see here. polling errors!

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Polling accuracy in the age of cell phones is a well-documented problem. But feel free to hate on the youth all you want.

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

I'm not hating on the youth. I'm looking clear eyed at data. I have three teens at home, all currently being bombarded by antisemitic messaging on social media and at school. I'm not irrational. I'm not a both-sider either. I live in the real world. Jokers to the left of me and clowns to the right. I still find it amazing how people like me have our blinders off and can clearly see the dangers on the right, but remain slack-jawed at people who keep their blinders on from the left. I support Joe Biden affirmatively. That doesn't mean I can ignore threats from the left flank. This is an issue that we must push back against, and help educate the youth. The problem doesn't go away by ignoring it.

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Well, you started out with nothing and you're proud that you're a self-made man. At least there's that.

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lols. I play the piano at home, and find myself playing this song pretty frequently lately :)

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I’m not ignoring it, and I hope Biden isn’t either, but I do think on this issue in particular, “the moral rot of youth” is being exaggerated.

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who said anything about "the moral rot of youth"? What is being discussed is 51% of 18-24 year olds in this poll believe the genocide of Israeli citizens is justified. What can we do about this should be the question, not, ahhh, they're just kids.

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Well, it's certainly not 5%.

The fact is it is a very significant portion of the younger aged population. Claiming "difficulties of polling" to dismiss it is just wishful thinking.

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This leftie does want to wish away the illiberal part of the left; its existence is hard to accept.

How do we explain to young people that we proudly threw off English rule, with the blood of many, but Palestine should fall in line to the British causing their displacement?

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Yes! Blame the messenger!

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Oct 25, 2023·edited Oct 25, 2023

If elected, Johnson's tenure won't last until Christmas. He will have to engage with the real world when the appropriations deal has to be renegotiated in November. The crazies don't do real world and, once he has to negotiate with the Senate and President, he will be forced to rely on Democratic votes to stop whatever government shutdown we have (and we 100% will have a shutdown). Once that happens, he's out. The boys (and girls) in the plastic bubble die when they are exposed to the real world.

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If you think they are concerned with whether or not they can actually govern competently, I have a bridge to see you. Johnson will be first in line to set his torch to the kindling under whatever "witches" he and the other crazies want to burn. It's been said here before: the cruelty is the point.

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We already know the guy puts his name on embarrassing lawsuits and the like. But at some point the government shutdown will become too problematic and reality will slap them.

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That's just it. Eventually the shutdown will hurt big money entities. They won't quietly roll-over for culture war nonsense.

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They have so far. They're all back to donating to insurrectionists. Disney may be winning suits in Florida, but they also got very quiet about how their employees are treated by Florida. Target and Budweiser are educational.

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Big picture, I agree 100%. I'm more thinking of short-term during a single shut-down. Big money wants things predictable.

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Like JVL likes to do, game theory it. If business really had such power they would have pushed a bipartisan candidate through by now. Instead we keep going back to populists.

Wait and see, I guess, but I don't think prior results, as in the Republicans won't screw up the economy, will predict future performance.

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Also, it will impact DOD and seniors. Never a good combo.

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"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.Here I am stuck in the middle with you". *Steelers Wheel

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Is the point to achieve near anarchy, inflict more suffering on the just and unjust alike, so that Orange Jesus can save us?

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From you lips to Gods ears!

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I think Nick Cattagio's comments, "Forgiving Jenna Ellis?" bear remembering. "Ellis and her co-conspirators tried to nullify my vote by overturning the election on preposterously flimsy and conspiratorial pretenses." Trump and his gang wanted (and would still) steal my vote and your vote!

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They have pre-declared victory, or fraud, in all future elections.

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He did just bleat that people don't have to worry about voting. "We got all the votes."

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Yeh that sure worked like gangbusters in Georgia.They then elected two Democratic senators.

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His comment does make me wonder just what is up MAGA's sleeves. The current efforts to disenfranchise voters? State Secretaries of State and election officials actively meddling in the elections? Armed "monitors" at polling stations?

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Exactly. They behave as if there are no consequences for their actions. So we should assume they have no intention of suffering such consequences. We should be asking, every minute of everyday, what are they planning to do to avoid the consequences?

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I don't know how it is in your state, but in mine the wild eyed armed monitors are confined to certain extremely red counties while the rest of the state seems to be ready to have a normal election. But I'm not in one of the swing states.

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I'm in WI, where the state GOP is currently planning to enshrine their "election integrity" laws in the state constitution, because the state Supreme Court is now tilted liberal. This process will take a few years and will not effect the 2024 election. There was recently a guy with a gun wanting to talk to the governor at the state capitol. He was arrested, posted bail, and went back again, with a different firearm. So who knows what might be next?

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Too bad Jenna isn't going to Ellis Island.Now Trump,,,"Wouldn't it be Nice" *Beach Boys

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Thanks, Charlie. Our country is truly screwed, and we absolutely did it to ourselves. Your entire column describes insanity from every angle, and now it is normal. I fear we “not the crazy ones” have fully lost this war. It is impossible to imagine, but it is about to happen.

Also, JMFK, you nailed Jenna Ellis! As a Christian myself, she makes me literally ill. But the fact anyone even knows who she is, and that she and her cohorts pursued nonsensical, immoral, unethical and truly criminal positions with a straight face, and got away with it, is OUR problem. Our country is morally, spiritually and politically bankrupt.

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"If only we were warned".

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We have moral monsters amongst us.

Johnson is almost a textbook definition of a little Eichmann.

And anyone who thinks that Hamas slaughtering civilians is justifiable should be shunned.

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Jenna's best defense would be claiming Rudy's farts stopped her from thinking straight.

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So she's a victim of biological warfare?

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Chemical, she got hit with custard gas.

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That would explain the rotten egg aroma...

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Maybe laughing gas.

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LOL

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I barely swallowed my coffee in time to avoid soaking my keyboard. Thank you for the laugh!

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Considering how Rudy conducts himself around the ladies less than half his age, clearly he thinks they're an aphrodisiac.

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Maybe in the sense of, "Fine, I'll do it if you promise to get out of smell range right after!"

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The thought of having to travel around with Rudy makes my toes squinch up.

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He takes after his boss.I mean former boss.I'm sure Trump doesn't know now,like the three other (ahem) lawyers.

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Nah, I think his looks and Elmer Fudd voice did that

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Nah,his looks and Elmer Fudd like voice did that.

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Trump should not have veto power over who gets to be Speaker of the House. The only reason he has this power is cuz the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is behind him. Per Viktor Orban's 12-Point Recipe for Christian Conservative Success: "The fourth point is that we must have the media".

Trump says "Voting for a Globalist RINO like Tom Emmer would be a tragic mistake!" Voting for a narcissist con man like Donald Trump was the tragic mistake. Voting to give MAGA/AF/GOP control of the House was another tragic mistake. Let's stop making tragic mistakes!

#SaveAmerica #NeverMAGA #NeverDeniers #NeverFraudsters

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With Jenna Ellis, the Christian Jenna Ellis, in the news representing the Xn faith as tinted lipgloss on a domesticated Suidae, I thought I’d share a bit of (much needed) good news Mr. Mel ladi and I got yesterday.

We took our new, young (evangelical, Pentecostal) pastor and his wife out for breakfast finally. Mr. Mel ladi launched into talking about his struggle with the political yak that happens in our congregation. Bottom line, come to find out our new pastor didn’t vote for Trump and will never vote for Trump and is baffled by Xn support of the orange tub.

Hallelujah! Got to take our wins where we can find ‘em, right?

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I'm truly happy for you, sister!

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Thank you, sister. We’ve been very tempted to walk and not look back.

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Well, this kind of ruined my morning. Republican antics have started to actually turn my stomach. People say 'I'm sick of this' all the time, but it's come to the point where I really am, physically, sick of this. I thought maybe the news of another conspirator taking a plea might ameliorate the issue a little, but no, it didn't. Even in, finally, doing something right, it's still sickening that she thinks she has reasons, or even excuses for what she did. Why doesn't she just admit "We thought we could put Mr. (yes, Mr.) Trump back into the White House and get away with it"? And I need some Alka-Seltzer....

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Today is the day the normies collapse of exhaustion and their MAGA Resistant Anti-bodies fail. This jackass Mike "Chauncey Gardner" Johnson , will be elected Speaker today as a result of this exhaustion.

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You, sir, win the trophy for pundit of the day. You absolutely nailed it.

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"[Rep. Mike] Johnson was involved directly in the campaign to invalidate the election results.

Those efforts include objecting to the certification of the election and playing a key role in getting signatures for an amicus brief in the long-shot Texas lawsuit that sought to overturn the election results in several states."

Are any of these mf-ers in legal jeopardy for these things down the road or is this all legit?

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Hey a game show;This is JEOPARDY,,,,MAGA Legal edition

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The photo of House Speaker nominee Rep. Mike Johnson speaking beside fellow members is pathetic and infuriating. Applauding, pumping their firsts, waving their hats, smiling like they've just won a Major Award. It's the legislative equivalent of a football team being crushed 72-0 while losing their first, second and third string QBs for the season, but celebrating because they managed to beat the point spread.

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