There was no saving her, unfortunately. Not unless someone on site had a package of quick-clot to instantly staunch an arterial bleed.
One of the videos I saw, in which the camerawoman goes to the wreckage, you can clearly see the bright red arterial blood in discrete patches on the snow. Almost certainly spurts from a nicked artery. Based on the video, I’d say she got hit in the neck and her carotid artery was expelling that blood through the open window as the vehicle careened out of control.
That’s not to say that the nonchalance of the Border Patrol officers is justified. The apparent shooter himself seemed to calmly walk past the camerawoman screaming obscenities at him and calling him a murderer, adjusting his gaiter to better conceal his face. He seemed more concerned to get himself off the scene ASAP.
I’m simply pointing out that the shooting was inevitably fatal, as you would expect when three hot 9mm rounds are fired into a person’s head and neck at point-blank range.
I don't think we should give up on this. The videos of George Floyd's murder made a difference. It was only after the propaganda machine got to work with videos of businesses burning in protests of that murder that the impact was blunted. The hard core MAGAites will never be convinced but a decent government can be elected without them.
You can bet on that, Linda! I do have some very conservative family members. And I do know what the first thing that they will say. It will go like this: if stopped by the law, put your hands where they can be seen and don't flee...... The trouble is when you have multiple masked people trying to open the door while saying (at the same time) get the fuck out! (no identifying as police) what can one think?
The problem with that is that they were yelling at her and telling her to get out of there. She was trying to comply. No one can safely navigate a vehicle with their hands in the air.
Except whether or not the physician could have saved her is irrelevant. It is that they could both not be bothered to rend her aid after shooting her, and forbade someone who could have assisted her from rendering assistance. Those on the scene including the ICE agents may not of known how bad the injuries were — though based on the evidence, I would say he intended to kill her. But next time they shoot someone, the injuries may not be as bad, and rendering treatment on the scene might well save them. Do we want the precedent to be that when ICE shoots people they aren’t entitled to immediate potential treatment and care.
That's already the precedent, and is kind of the point. These people (ICE, and "agents" from any other federal law enforcement agency who wear masks) are cosplaying like children with their toy guns, tanks, and other WMD. Only these people are not using toys.
The point is that, in order to play with Noem, Miller, Patel, Gabbard, JD and Trump, you must check whatever humanity you may have at the door. They have no training; they have no professional standards. They are state-sponsored vigilantes; THEY are the "homegrown terrorists" the right is always talking about.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING OUTRAGE??? Not just at the murder itself (which is intolerable and beyond outrageous) but at the instant cover-up, the instant lies - *completely* fabricated- the complete and utter disrespect and disregard for the victim, for the community, for any consequences to anybody at all. Must we wait for this to grind its way through the criminal justice system? Must we wait for Congress to offer its "thoughts and prayers"? Must we wait until the victim's name is published and her life story known? THIS IS TRAGIC, OUTRAGEOUS AND INTOLERABLE REGARDLESS OF WHO THE VICTIM WAS OR WHAT THE WEATHER WAS LIKE IN MINNEAPOLIS! It must be made COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE! The Democrats, anybody and everybody who is pro-democracy, who does want this to happen to their son, daughter, neighbor, friend, parent or fellow citizen need to follow the example of the Minneapolis mayor and emote! Express your outrage loudly and in no uncertain terms. If it means dropping some f-bombs or other "salty language", so be it. It is time for the majority of the people in this country to speak-up and to DEMAND that our lawmakers and the judicial system begin to function and represent the rest of us already, and you know, DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS!!!!
I remember reading that it's worth buying and carrying quick-clot: even if you yourself don't know how to use it yourself, chances are there may be trained medical personnel or veterans who do know how, as was the case here.
The ICE agents held off the physician at gunpoint, and also didn't allow paramedics in emergency vehicles to drive to Renee Good, forcing them to get to her on foot. Ten minutes passed before any of them reached her body. Conclusion: the ICE agents wanted to make sure she was dead.
Which, to be clear, makes all of the agents present equally guilty of murder. Thats not just puffer either, denying someone the ability to recieve lifesaving medical aid is sufficient to be brought up on murder charges. Aiding someone in doing so is being an accessory after the fact.
And lets not pretend this is the FIRST time ICE has attacked or murdered people in the last year. BUT GOOD NEWS!
Guess who's budget is being negotiated, right now.
I was astonished when I woke up today and the killing in Minneapolis was NOT among the top headlines in NYT digital edition. I felt like Rip Van Winkle. Plus, they keep referring to it as a “shooting”. No; it was a killing. It was state-murder.
My hope is fading that this horror could be a turning point.
I'm seeing a fair amount of coverage by other mainstream outlets. And remember that in the social media era, we as individuals aren't merely passive spectators -- we can push out content to our own networks. Kimmel's rehiring didn't happen by accident. We have agency.
Yes, and when it comes to content on our own networks, I am thankful every day for Substack. Just participating in this forum is a balm to the pain that’s looking for a place to land.
Am hoping it could be a James Reeb moment. Many people forget that the trigger for passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act was the killing of Reeb, a white Unitarian Minister, in Selma … by a bunch of racist thugs. Maybe someone in Congress can push a bill to end ICE.
People were on the streets, peacefully, holding vigils in nearly every city last night. Some people who met out there have now formed local resistance groups or joined existing ones, and they’re strategizing how to push back (peacefully) in the real world. The news doesn’t report on this and it’s not posted on social media. But Renee Good wasn’t killed on social media or in the news, she was killed on the street, and the turning point you’re looking for is happening there too.
You are right. Just before I turned everything off last night I was watching a Fox News feed on YouTube which mentioned plans underway for protests in multiple cities. Not for the first time, I’m disappointed in NYT’s deprioritizing this event, insofar as their editorial choices of leading stories.
That’s another consistent pattern; minimizing the protests. It’s all part of something nefarious because they also are consistently more laser focused on any wrongdoing by Democrats than the glaring lawlessness of the GOP. In the 2016 election, they all but endorsed Trump just by virtue of their bizarrely critical coverage of Hillary, even the assessment of her laugh, which was essential to describe as our future hung in the balance.
Same for Kamala. Whenever something outrageous like this happens (alright, everyday), I think sarcastically to myself, "Well, at least we don't have to hear Kamala laugh." What a bunch of wangs these people are.
And Social Media like Facebook, Youtube, Instagram and even TikTok are covering this and started immediately. This is where Social Media gets messages out very quickly.
agreed, that is why I go to the Bulwark and other sources instead. NYT does some good investigative reporting, but for stuff like this they give way too much credence to a lying, violent regime.
I agree, and I am adopting that important need now. I just watched a Jesse Welles YouTube video titled “Good vs ICE”.
As a side note and a fan of Welles’ protest-music and lyrics, he seemed deflated. Which reflects how I feel. I know the anger will resurface and give the fuel I need. It’s a roller coaster and we can’t get off.
It is a shift in emotional states that is wearing this 76-year-old mind and body down that is requiring all my determination to calm, to meditate, and to rediscover all my necessary equanimity to carry on in the fight against this incipient fascism.
Agree. ”Keeping on” is a daily practice requiring conscious effort. I keep focusing on our young, who have so much more at stake. My son is parenting very young children; how?
Is this why the NYT didn't cover the killing of Renee Good, an American citizen, by a masked ice agent in Minneapolis ,as the major story it is--did they pull their punches because The NYT did an interview with Trump last evening. Four reporters spent two hours with Trump at the White House. In the wide ranging interview, Trump tried to sell them his version -complete with footage purportedly backing him up--of the killing of Renee Good by a masked ice agent in Minneapolis yesterday. The NYT should have reported the killing of Renee Good by Ice with the seriousness it deserved and just not done that interview at the White House with Trump.
We can debate all day about whether she should have been blocking traffic, whether she clipped the officer, or whether he feared for his life.
What is absolute is that none of these officers attempted to render aid. Further, they denied a physician's request to try to assess her and render aid. This is cruel, sociopathic, and immoral. In many states, it is a crime not to render aid when it is necessary. Every Jesus-professing, MAGA voting American should be on the record as to how they can justify this.
She was not blocking traffic; she was there as a legal observer. You can see another vehicle pass by her before the ICE vehicle stopped. They had no business getting out and harassing her in the first place. As to whether he feared for his life, riddle me this: if the only way to avoid being run over was to shoot, then why didn't shooting stop the car?
If she was blocking traffic, the ICE people should have requested that she move her car. Instead, they attacked her and tried to open the door and drag her out, which they had no right to do.
The people are not police, they are an attack force sent by Stephan Miller to intimidate and control the population. I expect they will return in force two weeks before the midterm elections.
She had waved the previous 2 ICE vehicles through before the third stopped and aggressively approached her and surrounded her car giving conflicting orders.
Thanks for providing this info. I keep reading that she was "blocking traffic" but I said to my husband, "Sure looks like from the video that there was plenty of room to just drive around her."
Our town (Dover NJ) was involved in a police shooting. A fleeing traffic offender. Even for police it is still not allowed. Our town paid a lot of money to the deceased's family.
I completely agree with you--on every single point.
However, the Bulwark post raised the issue of blocking traffic, and I misstated my first point. I should have said ."..whether she was blocking traffic" instead of should have.
Well, it's hearsay so kind of casual. The bit about the legal observer was widely reported yesterday but I think we're going to have to wait a few days to find out how solid any of this info about the circumstances is.
At the very, very end of the video, one of the ICE crew (perhaps the actual shooter) is shown nonchalantly walking away from Good's (murder victim) crashed suv with her inside it- not administering aid at all. Yes,-a cruel, dim-witted, and immoral human being from our country.
"Cruel dim-witted and immoral..." Exactly the way Trump likes'em. Would not surprise us to learn that this standard is a part of the vetting process for ICE applicants.
And I'd like to hear how these people think shooting the driver of a moving 4,000-pound vehicle is justifiable to protect people in the vicinity, ICE agent, bystanding member of the public or anyone in a nearby house sipping coffee. Perhaps they give presumed "violent domestic terrorists" shot in the head the capacity to be able to step on the brakes and put the vehicle in park to avoid careening into anyone or anything in its path before bleeding out.
I read that shooting a fleeing vehicle is against DHS policy. I also read that DHS now says the officer who shot the victim had been dragged by a vehicle some months ago. DHS’s story is evolving.
What is also scary are the endless, cruel replies from those agreeing with what the ICE agents did. Having seen various comments on Social Media, news media and other sources, it astounds me how many people have reacted after seeing video of Renee Good being killed. It truly is immoral. How did we get here as a people?
To Andrew's question of how people like McLaughlin and Noem and all the other trump mouthpieces live with themselves - they have no issues at all with lying for money because they are, each and every one, sociopaths. People, and there has always been a certain percentage of humans like this, people who have no conscience. They simply don't ever feel the sensation of guilt about lying that the rest of us do. And we all know someone in our lives like this. It's just that the sociopath trump has found and concentrated hundreds of them into his administration.
Noem killed her dog who she raised from a puppy. They say sociopaths often start on animals. Noem should be in a psychiatric unit not the Federal government.
While we with a moral center were all horrified at Noem’s dog shooting story (I recall the “why did her Editor let her keep it in the book” discussion), ICE Barbie knew who the story was for. From one sociopath to another. And it worked.
She deserves to be a warning we tell our children about how she and other monsters like her followed a fascist felon until we dragged them out of our house and our government and gave them the Justice our government refuses to.
Hell, if he did it right before the '28 election, like early October, he'd dominate the news cycle for weeks in our present-day infotainment culture, and might drive a last-minute surge of MAGA's to turn out on election day
I had an abusive alcoholic father. But I was blessed with a wonderful mother. My family was poor. My mom worked nights as a cocktail waitress so she could be home in the day with her 5 kids. That’s where she met my alcoholic dad—go figure!! 😂 But my point is, I’m an adult. I have responsibility for my own choices and actions. Having a hard childhood shaped me, but it doesn’t define me. Those adults like Vance and Noem are just a-holes. Horrific humans. That have no business governing anyone.
Basically, we tend to associate the label with serial killers, but folks who are sociopaths who are properly socialized and exist in loving and supportive environments do not normally go on to be criminals. Like any of us, they can go on to become effective lawyers and innovative CEOs and ballsy financiers and successful bankers, all sorts of stuff.
But the thing is that they can do a lot of damage when things go wrong. Especially in abusive environments. Especially when given the wrong incentives. Especially when their diagnosis of sociopathy is exasperated by other psychoses, like malignant narcissism.
I recall a book title, “The Sociopath Next Door”. I was curious, but oddly too scared to read it. I thought it would lead to me seeing sociopathy everywhere and feeling overwhelmed.
It is excellent. The first chapter alone will help you decide whether to read it or not -- especially if you are a dog lover.
As I remember, the statistics the author presents in the book is 5% of all Americans are diagnosable as sociopaths. That's one in twenty. I used to think about that with every classroom of twenty students I had, and the number was usually right on target.
Thanks for the review. It does sound too on point for me, especially right now. I remember hanging out with a group of elementary school teachers when my own kids were students, who claimed (I believe correctly) that they could predict with high accuracy which young students would end up in prison.
Yep. It's a combination of factors that can determine (within a range of probability, of course) those young lives that are likely to go off the rails.
As teachers, we try to give just that extra level of support and pro-social role-modeling to them, but it is mostly just a Sisyphean exercise.
I’m not sure that the numbers have spiked. I think that many sociopaths have been able to run successful businesses without demonstrating evil sociopathic tendencies. Since Trump’s first election, and even more so with the second, his sociopathy has normalized sociopathic behaviors. 🤬 Humanity is in danger in the United States!
Not that it will matter, but in my personal dealing with this impotent rage we all feel now, I sent an email to FLETC in Brunswick, GA. expressing my disgust at their clear failure to properly train their recruits in firearm discharges. Will be moving back to the Brunswick coast region soon, lived in the area, mostly Jekyll Island and St.Simons Island, for near 30 years, and I think there needs to be some sort of national media attention , maybe organized protest daily outside the FLETC entrance, something
I think in general you are correct about their training, but I had a distincly different impression about this particular shooter. I don't think he was panicked at all and his accuracy was way beyond that of a panicked novice. I don't think it was by the grace of God he missed the passenger. He knew exactly where he was aiming.
In what way? I'm saying the opposite, that there was no indication that he feared for his life. Therefore, there was no justifaction for him to draw his gun, let alone kill her.
I came to the sad realization this morning that we are already in a Civil War. The Federal went to Minneapolis against the wishes of the Governor of the State and the Mayor of the City to conduct immigration sweeps. As they have in other cities in America, the operations are performed provocatively. People in Minneapolis protest their opposition as well. This horrible event occurs. The Federal Government not only falsely insists that they are not to blame in any way for the incident, showing little or no remorse for the death of a citizen of the State and Country but continues their operation and insists that they will continue despite more forceful opposition from State and City officials and concerned citizens.
Lincoln did all that he could to avoid direct confrontation with citizens and states opposed to him and his administration. The current US Federal Government is seeking out confrontation. When we look back, lets remember that it wasn't us that started this.
Yes specifically to your last sentence. Trump has always advocated for violence and death. He likes chaos and watching people fight. And now he seems to be determined to have this occur more often.
It has been speculated that they want to create violence so Trump can send in the military (not National Guard) and suspend our elections. I suspect this is true.
The military has proven it is very comfortable executing illegal orders to murder civilians without legal justificationor even pretense, and comfortable in doing so at the orders of a drunk political commentator and a traitor, felon, and pedophile who says that members of the military are "losers and suckers". I expect they will be equally enthusiastic about dropping bombs on American cities, and i look forward to the reckoning that meets them and all the rest of the people supporting this administration.
I equally look forward to revoking the military service benefits and pensions of everyone who has supported Trump, as Trump is so eager to do to Senator Kelly.
I have worked school carpool lines and been more endangered than that so called agent ever was. They want escalation. Vance's post proves that. I am so impressed with those MN citizens that continued to protest, because clearly our government currently wants us to feel scared. I hope I'm quoting correctly, but as Benjamin Franklin said, We must all hang together, or we will surely hang separately. We may just be there once again. As our founders were under threat from their government, so are we all now. I look forward to joining with other fellow patriots to rise up. (yes, now I'm quoting the musical Hamilton.)
I agree with you! I am filled with admiration for the bystander who can be heard in the video screaming at ICE after the murder.
I’m sorry to admit that I wouldn’t have had the courage to keep swearing at masked thugs who had just proven that they were happy to shoot and kill if they felt like it.
I'd say day-to-day women exhibit more courage than men. Men are taught that "courage" is a form of giant one-off actions, the stuff of heroes. If you're someone who thinks of courage in this way, then it's a big hill to climb and you're likely to hedge, because it comes with a lot of risk.
The women I know do what they need to do, when they need to do it. Often it is quite. Other times it's screamed out loud, as in "You're a fucking murderer."
They did that to the young woman they shot 5 times in Chicago after they rammed her vehicle. They wanted her to "make my day" so they could shoot her dead.
"In doing so, she turned past another agent standing near the front of her vehicle, possibly clipping him—the angle of the various videos makes it difficult to tell—with the corner of her front bumper."
Sorry Andrew, hard disagree. His legs were clearly on the side of the car when she went past him. I've had closer calls with cars when I worked at a gas station without "fearing for my life". If that made that scumbag fear for his life then he needs to go into another line of work. Seems like you're afraid to go against the magat propaganda line.
I understand the desire not to jump to conclusions and also not to assume we can know what is in the head of another person, but we have also seen way too many times law enforcement officers using the magic words, "I feared for my life" to avoid any liability for their actions. The use of deadly force has become far too reflexive followed immediately by the reflex to claim "self-defense" and "fear for my life." (We don't even know what this agent said, if anything, about his mindset although we can clearly see he is basically uninjured as he walked up the street to the car he shot into. McLaughlin and Noem may have simply just made this up themselves knowing that those are the magic words.) We have become inured to seeing video of law enforcement immediately drawing their gun and shooting someone who, the entire time before, was not a threat to them.
Renee Nicole Good was not a suspect in a crime, she was a 37-year-old mom driving in a residential neighborhood. Instead of approaching her calmly and asking her to move, the ICE agents escalated the encounter, grabbing at her door handle and yelling at her. It is unclear if they were all saying the same things. We have seen ICE and CBP agents violently assaulting people, dragging them out of their cars, beating and arresting them. You know what's really unsettling? Having a bunch of masked, armed federal agents surrounding your car and shouting at you. Has anyone bothered to ask if she feared for her life? Because she's the only one who ended up having that fear confirmed.
Regardless of any investigation, legality, technical analysis by law enforcement experts, blah, blah, blah, what we saw was wrong. Just wrong.
Let's keep in mind as well that ICE method of dealing with people filming them has been to point firearms at them and mimic shooting them. This is behavioral, and I guarantee that the coward who fled the scene after murdering Renee Good was bragging to his buddies just like the officer who executed the woman in Chicago under VERY similar circumstances.
"This is how you intimidate reporters, now watch carefully, you have to do the next one."
"See that pastor over there? Aim for the head. "
"This is how you make it "look like" someone might be trying to hit you with thier car" just remember its very important to shoot them BEFORE they spot you or have a chance to react to your presence. Remember the Donroe doctrine is counting on you. Donnie got off scot free after 34 counts of fraud and basically living on Epstein island for years, we'll back you up. This is your chance to be a MAN!"
ICE is protecting the wealth and power of the billionaire ruling class from the peasants, (We The People)! Minneapolis is just the beginning.
The ruling class doesn’t want protesters disrupting their control of commerce. They want starving, stupid, sad workers they can exploit without consequences.
The Independent UK is reporting on elderly Americans dying from malnutrition in record numbers. This is textbook class warfare.
It's sophistry to nitpick the hyperbole of "afraid to go against the magat propaganda line". What you did was grant credulity to a grossly false interpretation of the visual evidence offered by ICE apologists without bothering to critically examine that evidence. It is, in fact, not possible that Good clipped Ross with the corner of her bumper, and as the NYT and Bellingcat have demonstrated, the main video we've seen over and over makes that absolutely clear if you break it down.
What you wrote was wrong. How about dropping the snide come-back and taking some fucking responsibility?
I have seen a lot of this, with people bending over backward to avoid seeming too knee-jerk. Infuriating, and part of the problem. Trump et al have no nuance. We on this side seem to revel in it. The guy was not clipped. And what some call an agent I call a Jack-Booted Thug.
I have to quarrel with "accelerated." To me it looks like the car continued at the speed and in the direction she set it on, slowing gradually before stopping. She never intended harm to him and the path of the car demonstrates that.
I had high hopes for Jeffries, but now he and Schumer act like this is just an unfortunate phase we're going through now. When the democrats win next year, everything will return to normal. That's not going to happen!! We might be able to have an election and actually win without another J6. But it won't be easy, and it looks grimmer by the day.
I always felt that Schumer was a mush. Jeffries is turning out to be his twin. I was disappointed to hear Pelosi say he's so very ready to be a leader. He's no Pelosi.
And this is no normal Congress. We can't afford to wait for this vaunted 'bipartisanship' they keep whining about. We've lost so much already.
As long as you need 60 Senate votes to get things done, they will be singing bipartisanship--and I think they lack the courage to do away with the filibuster.
Well, getting rid of the filibuster is fascism, whereas unknown masked assailants shooting citizens in the face is just good government done the right way.
This line resonated with me, because it's true for all regimes that became totalitarian: "Fantastical lying over killing by the state is always a prelude to more killings — and inevitably war." We are all in danger from a regime that wants us dead.
Previous to yesterday, I would have said that was hyperbole, but now it just rings true. The biggest failure of Donald Trump is not to acknowledge that he is the President of ALL Americans, not just his followers. His only job is to improve the lives of ALL Americans. Every President seems to have known this. Trump does not, in fact, he defies the sentiment and rules only for his MAGA stans and rich cronies. I believe this will be key to his downfall because he doesn't have enough followers to form a majority. I still believe that there are more of us than there are of them and we will not stand being labeled "leftist lunatics who hate our country" for much longer. There is only so much you can take before an explosion is inevitable. Let's use that power for "Good." Maybe the next national protest should be about "Good" trouble. Remember her name.
As always, Schmidt is pushing for Democrats to stand up and do something. He then itemizes what steps can be taken right now to mobilize the opposition. Share his list with your Reps and Senators. They obviously need some sort of plan of action to follow since they are incapable of making one themselves. The sooner Schumer and Jeffries are replaced with people who can speak more passionately and forcefully about some positive plans, the better off we will be. We cannot just sit and wait until the midterms. Democrats need to act now. Steve's plan to gather the governors and form a coalition of action is smart. Dems in Congress should be pushing for things like this. Words are not going to change the system we find ourselves enmeshed in. Actions are required.
Yeah I was quite upset by Andrew’s characterization. She never saw the murderer come around the car she was engaged with the agent trying to film her and drag her out of her car for no crime!
I made the exact same point myself yesterday, that she likely didn't even see the officer they're accusing her of having tried to run down. How anyone could be taking me to be saying she was culpable in some way here is beyond me.
I’m sorry Andrew, I really respect your work. Just worked up living in south Minneapolis. I understand it’s so hard to accurately call out all the HHS bullshit. I was too hard on you. honestly it’s got to tough covering the administration and writing about it everyday and commend it.
Legal: when a subject submits a written declaration that is proven to be false, you dont just throw out the statement, you throw out the whole witness, because nothing they say can be trusted. This is equally if not doubly true of officers of the court. We know ICE and DHS have been lying for months at this point, so believing anything they say without significant corroboration from multiple TRUSTWORTHY sources is grounds for malpractice. One maybe view from a camera angle is not sufficient. Not saying that ICE has consistently lied about its previous extrajudicial murders is collaborative.
Journalistic: take everything i just said about the law, and triple it. If your sources lie to you, they arent sources anymore, they are using you to create a narrative. See Bush and "WMDs". If you are selling yourself as a journalist (and you are) learn how it works.
Historic: a table full of friends are sitting in a restaurant having a good time. A nazi walks into the restaurant and joins them. Now you have a table full of nazis. It doesn't matter where on the spectrum you fall, if you make room at your table for nazis, you are a nazi. If you are offended bybthis I suggest you familiarize yourself with Popovs paradox of tolerance.
This is a pretty accurate statement. Hell, most of us watching the different videos didn't see the the shooter at the front of her car until she started pull forward
Yeah I agree, I give Andrew a lot of props for an otherwise powerful piece. It's mostly super solid and I agree with a lot of what he wrote. But this hedging on this was an unnecessary failure. There's no evidence to support the narrative Noem et al. immediately deployed, especially since they deployed it **before*** any evidence had been gathered or examined.
We need to call the lies lies. The Trumpists weaponize nuance.
I am doing no "hedging" except describing what I myself see in the footage. I've watched the various videos many, many times, read various analyses, and find myself unable to say with certainty whether the vehicle made slight contact with the officer or not. So I wrote as much.
Andrew I appreciate you, I really do. Thanks for sticking up for yourself too and your explanation. I guess I am describing how it read/looked to me in turn, though I initially phrased it pretty directly.
It looks an awful lot like the both-sidism that is an all-too-common failure of journalism in the Trump Era. I respect that this is not what you meant as you've explained. I offer the commentary then as an explanation for why you got some pushback from readers. Keep going, especially in reporting what you know to be true. We're going to be a bit spicy if we see y'all do anything that even looks a bit less than that, the toothlessness of other coverage is why we're hear reading your work.
He either was bumped by the car as it turned past him or he stepped back to narrowly avoid it. Really, really hard to tell from the footage, in my opinion.
Noem had instantly reported from wherever she was coz-playing at the time with big hat on that the shooter who "allegedly was hit bu the suv" had to be hospitalized. The video that I watched showed him upright and moving with no harm being done to him. Suv did not come close to hitting him.....
How did all these chicken-shits end up in law enforcement? I don't go looking for trouble, but my god, I've never head a group more afraid to walk down the street than cops who take to murdering people....
Late last night I saw a video clip during Jake Tapper’s segment that showed a lot of blood on the deployed air bag. I let out an involuntary scream. Then I couldn’t stop crying. It was a life taken. I’m so angry and lost.
What else is there to say about the murder of Nicole Good. Masked agents of the state are now summarily executing American citizens in broad daylight. Only blocks from the murder of George Floyd, also by an agent of the state. With Floyd, the right waited for a few years before attempting to smear the victim and minimize the incident. Now, they won’t even wait a day.
Separately, last night, the President sent out a bleat telling private corporations how to spend their money. Sure it was the much despised defense industrial complex, but according to Trump, stock dividends and executive pay are no way for a company to spend its money. I know we are still in a tizzy over the “warmth of collectivism,” but let’s keep an eye out for the actual socialism.
I have been puzzled why Kirk’s death has been termed an assassination but the deaths of others, like Melissa and Mark Hortman (Minnesota) have been termed murders.
Thought exercise, not a call for action: this appears to be the exact kind of federal tyranny the 2nd amendment exists to deter. So if the armed citizens of Minnesota decide to invoke their 2nd amendment rights against federal government tyranny, is that a federal crime to shoot at the perpetrators murdering citizens of their state or is it what The Founders envisioned?
Who gets to decide when it’s ok to cite the 2nd amendment as grounds to literally fight an oppressive federal government? Because I’ve heard from alleged 2nd amendment absolutists for decades now that the reason we are allowed to keep and bear arms is exactly for this moment and they are nowhere to be seen other than licking the boots of the thugs doing the federal government sanctioned killing. Interesting.
I've been thinking about this because yesterday there were **a lot** of calls to not "give Trump what he wants" i.e., "do not shoot back at the ICE agents when they engage in arbitrary and lawless violence towards US citizens."
The argument is that Trump wants a pretext. He wants an even more violent crackdown, so he's trying to provoke protestors into taking it too far resisting ICE and DHS.
But... like... let's say that's true... do they know that they are going to get "their" agents (JD's words) killed? Do the agents know that they're being used as bait? Because if there isn't accountability, if the ICE agents really do lawlessly kill people and there is no justice, that is going to get more people killed. And there's a lot more gun owners in Minneapolis than there are ICE agents.
I'm not saying it's good or it should happen and I'm not making a call to action. I'm wondering if the folks who say, "They want to provoke you!," realize they're suggesting that the Trumpists view the ICE/DHS agents themselves as disposable and worthless -- cut bait, on a hook.
That's also an awful thought. I don't have a ton of sympathy for ICE agents, but I believe in the sanctity of all human life and so I'm distraught by a system that discards even people engaged in wrongdoing as disposable... No human being is disposable...
"Do the agents know that they're being used as bait?"
My point exactly. But no they don't, because they are drunk on the power that has been given them. And yes, one or more of them will be killed during one of these altercations. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't even the score.
None of us know where this headed, but it ain't where any of us want to be.
Decades of creative sociological research have demonstrated the incredible dehumanizing/anti-civilized effect of anonymity. Give a gang masks and guns and the probability of gross trespass goes way up.
I'm uncomfortable saying this, but I think our way forward (AT THIS POINT) is to take on the anonymity rather than the guns, and then exploit the information in an asymmetrical fashion. If you can dox me despite my mask, and then raise my stakes by sending pizza to my child by name at school, I might decide that I don't want to play this game anymore. Ugly tactic, but now you have my attention.
In an amazing feat of crowdsourcing armchair sleuths identified hundreds of J6 rioters sufficiently to send them to prison. This will be harder, but the effort is equally important. To collect other useful info, set up game cameras to catch license plates turning off the public road into Glenco. Recruit desk clerks to report on large blocks of government-rate rooms being let at the local Days Inn by the Interstate. Get a bunch of your favorite flavor of AirTag-like trackers and glue them to a small magnet; attached to an ICE vehicle they will reveal end-of-day rally points. They can also provide beginning of day intel on where vehicles are staging and which neighborhoods need to lock up. Peel the onion and someplace find where the government vehicles meet up with agents' private vehicles.
The eventual, "I know where your family lives" may be the come-to-Jesus moment wherein someone decides to be a "former ICE agent". Yuck. Now I have to wash my brain out with soap.
One of the things that our modern society in the US has killed (to a degree and in certain ways) is the idea of people enforcing social norms.
What used to be a common (and, frankly) necessary tool in the functioning of civilization has been derided, vilified, and deemed as being something beyond the pale. Something worthy of punichment, in and of itself.
There are good, legitimate reasons to keep some things hidden. To keep some identities hidden.
There are also good and legitimate reasons for some things to NOT be hidden and for some things to NOT be put up with.
I understand how and why you feel like you state. It somehow feels "dirty" in our contemporary social setting. I see it as enforcing a legitimate social norm WRT the behavior of law enforcement.
Note, for the record, that I use my actual name here. I think anonymity in social media is something that should not be allowed. Never should have been allowed. A lot of the truely nasty stuff that goes down would go down less often if there was no anonymity.
I've heard a lot of lies from a lot of people, but the lie that people wanted guns in case of a tyrannical government was always the most transparently laughable and false. Right up there with "I'd vote for a woman, just not one that's ever run for anything."
People want guns because they fantasize hurting others or because they are aware that others fantasize about hurting them.
Several years ago I saw an article that said something to the effect of, as if the 2nd amendment means that a guy in his basement with a rifle is going to be able to take on the 101st Airborne Division.
While an argument can be made to support the use of firearms against an oppressive government, it would just play into the hands of the domestic terrorists who populate the current Executive Brach of the US Government. The Stephen Miller/Russell Vought/Kevin Roberts triumvirate is the ideological force behind this tragedy. They want violent confrontation in order to use the US Military to quell any demonstrations. As Stephen Miller so succinctly stated "It's all about power". They have it. They will use it.
As this administration has publicly stated, the only true law is brute force and the ability to impose will. Getting away with it is the only necessary condition to make it legitimate.
What I've seen on Facebook are the several comments from people of color saying something to the effect of "Now you see what we go through with respect to interactions with federal agents." Very sad that this is true to some degree. Also, very sad to see a gulf growing much larger between law enforcement and the governed, to everyone's detriment. Trump wants this and revels in it.
I was thinking last night how this reminded me of George Floyd's murder: it's not rare at all for law enforcement to overreact and bully like this. We would never even have known it happened if there hadn't been video. Law enforcement is trying to lie and gaslight their way out of it even though there IS video. There is a tendency for media to accept police descriptions of shootings as credible, because we SHOULD be able to consider law enforcement credible, but unfortunately that's not always the case. Ken White, who posts on bluesky as Popehat, writes about nearly every day.
And clearly it's far, far worse for people of color and low-income people.
They didn’t use her name because they want to dehumanize her. This is why people use racial epithets too. They don’t want people to feel empathy for her or horror at her death by the Trump Death Squad.
It's a terrifying thought, but I imagine Trump all alone in his room at night, watching TV and posting incessantly on Truth Social while smiling malignantly. He really does ENJOY the mayhem and strife he creates. We must not let his pure evil take over our country. Fight, Fight, Fight must become OUR motto now, stripped from the Pretender.
"it is possible that the officer who fired the shots had indeed feared for his life." No. I realize there's a journalistic obligation to be objective and evenhanded, but let's be real. Even if she had slightly clipped him with her car (highly doubtful) he had *no* reason to fear for his life at the point when he fired three shots into her.
Cops don't get to execute a person because they're pissed that she didn't comply. Even if we want to go out of our way to be generous and say the ICE guy panicked, that doesn't make the shooting justifiable. Cops don't get a special exemption for killing people in a fit of rage or panic. The fact that they often get away with doing just that is down to our insane deference to law enforcement in this country, and a lot of well-meaning journalism helps feed that deference by giving credence to their bullshit excuses. Please don't do that.
Also if you're fearing for your life, why would you APPROACH the source of danger rather than getting the heck out of the way? What if the driver had had a gun and fired first?
I don't believe all ICE agents are racist thugs. There aren't many decent jobs at that education level, let alone jobs that offer signing bonuses and excellent benefits. If you have debts to pay or a family to support, how could you resist applying? They are clearly being inadequately trained and badly led, with a culture that's going to turn even the best into their worst selves.
What are we going to do with these people if our democracy survives and we get a chance to eliminate ICE? It will be like trying to rehabilitate the child soldiers in post-civil war Liberia.
If you look at the video that captures the scene from above and slightly in front of Good's car, it looks like the shooter actually leans over the hood slightly, as if he thinks he can physically stop the car. It's the kind of reflexive move you'd do if you have no training and you're amped up for confrontation. I think the kindest thing you can say about this guy is that he's a gun-happy idiot.
I have a little bit of sympathy for ICE agents who were already on board before this campaign of terror started. It's hard to walk away from a job with good pay and benefits if you have responsibilities beyond yourself and you've built a life around that livelihood. And if they walk away now, they're always going to be tainted with that Trump stink. But I have zero respect or sympathy for anyone who signed up over the past year. They all knew exactly what they were being hired for and said, "Yeah, sounds good." The lure of the money is no excuse for selling your soul.
"Cops don't get to execute a person because they're pissed that she didn't comply" says it all. Yet the likes of Stephen Miller would argue that point.
“The rest of McLaughlin’s statement was pure invention. McLaughlin accused Good of deliberately attempting to run down “ICE agents, a statement completely at odds with the clear video evidence. (One video shows Good waving at ICE vehicles to drive around her prior to the incident taking place.) Her accusation that Good was guilty of “domestic terrorism” was an unbelievable, outrageous smear—a baldfaced lie about an American citizen killed by her own government, before her body was even cold on the ground.2”
The statement is irrelevant; it’s all semantics!
Don’t forget that Trump signed NSPM-7 which designates anyone who interferes with ICE agents in the line of duty, or protests ICE while in the process of making an arrest, or has the audacity to Dox and agent; they would be considered domestic terrorists. Bottom line, if you sneeze in the wrong direction, you could be a domestic terrorist!
Obviously, this is in direct contradiction of the 4th and 5th amendments, but considering all of the other unconstitutional actions by this administration, in which no price has been paid, then we must conclude that whatever democracy has ever existed, is no more!
I’m waiting for the lawsuits, because if we do nothing, then ICE will have a license to Kill; a goon squad answerable to no one except Trump and Miller. Let that sink in! IMHO…:)
It seems important to remember that the incursion of 2,000 ICE thugs into Minneapolis is due to the fake “reporting” on Somali daycare centers by a junior MAGA from elsewhere. He was on a mission to stir trouble and he succeeded. Now I’m guessing he has a bright future within the regime.
What most commentaries fail to mention is that the ICE agents did the exact opposite of good police procedure. Cops are supposed to de-escalate the situation. These guys escalated the situation and quickly. Really bad police work with tragic consequences.
They were never trained in police procedure. They were trained to bust car windows, break into homes and abuse people, There's nothing "police" about them.
They were trained to intentionally escalate situations. It's obvious from how they are almost always the initial aggressors. Peaceful protests won't give Trump his excuse to bring in the military or declare martial law.
The footage also captured a physician's request to tend to the victim, which ICE agents denied.
There was no saving her, unfortunately. Not unless someone on site had a package of quick-clot to instantly staunch an arterial bleed.
One of the videos I saw, in which the camerawoman goes to the wreckage, you can clearly see the bright red arterial blood in discrete patches on the snow. Almost certainly spurts from a nicked artery. Based on the video, I’d say she got hit in the neck and her carotid artery was expelling that blood through the open window as the vehicle careened out of control.
That’s not to say that the nonchalance of the Border Patrol officers is justified. The apparent shooter himself seemed to calmly walk past the camerawoman screaming obscenities at him and calling him a murderer, adjusting his gaiter to better conceal his face. He seemed more concerned to get himself off the scene ASAP.
I’m simply pointing out that the shooting was inevitably fatal, as you would expect when three hot 9mm rounds are fired into a person’s head and neck at point-blank range.
Photos of the guy are being circulated, trying to identify him. If they do, he’ll be lionized by the right like Kyle Rittenhouse was.
I don't think we should give up on this. The videos of George Floyd's murder made a difference. It was only after the propaganda machine got to work with videos of businesses burning in protests of that murder that the impact was blunted. The hard core MAGAites will never be convinced but a decent government can be elected without them.
The vide of this shooting, just 1 mile from the scene of George Floyd’s murder, may indeed make a difference.
You can bet on that, Linda! I do have some very conservative family members. And I do know what the first thing that they will say. It will go like this: if stopped by the law, put your hands where they can be seen and don't flee...... The trouble is when you have multiple masked people trying to open the door while saying (at the same time) get the fuck out! (no identifying as police) what can one think?
The problem with that is that they were yelling at her and telling her to get out of there. She was trying to comply. No one can safely navigate a vehicle with their hands in the air.
The ceremony is already in the planning stages. It's a key piece in cementing the demonization of Renee Nichole Good.
Except whether or not the physician could have saved her is irrelevant. It is that they could both not be bothered to rend her aid after shooting her, and forbade someone who could have assisted her from rendering assistance. Those on the scene including the ICE agents may not of known how bad the injuries were — though based on the evidence, I would say he intended to kill her. But next time they shoot someone, the injuries may not be as bad, and rendering treatment on the scene might well save them. Do we want the precedent to be that when ICE shoots people they aren’t entitled to immediate potential treatment and care.
That's already the precedent, and is kind of the point. These people (ICE, and "agents" from any other federal law enforcement agency who wear masks) are cosplaying like children with their toy guns, tanks, and other WMD. Only these people are not using toys.
The point is that, in order to play with Noem, Miller, Patel, Gabbard, JD and Trump, you must check whatever humanity you may have at the door. They have no training; they have no professional standards. They are state-sponsored vigilantes; THEY are the "homegrown terrorists" the right is always talking about.
WHERE IS THE FUCKING OUTRAGE??? Not just at the murder itself (which is intolerable and beyond outrageous) but at the instant cover-up, the instant lies - *completely* fabricated- the complete and utter disrespect and disregard for the victim, for the community, for any consequences to anybody at all. Must we wait for this to grind its way through the criminal justice system? Must we wait for Congress to offer its "thoughts and prayers"? Must we wait until the victim's name is published and her life story known? THIS IS TRAGIC, OUTRAGEOUS AND INTOLERABLE REGARDLESS OF WHO THE VICTIM WAS OR WHAT THE WEATHER WAS LIKE IN MINNEAPOLIS! It must be made COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE! The Democrats, anybody and everybody who is pro-democracy, who does want this to happen to their son, daughter, neighbor, friend, parent or fellow citizen need to follow the example of the Minneapolis mayor and emote! Express your outrage loudly and in no uncertain terms. If it means dropping some f-bombs or other "salty language", so be it. It is time for the majority of the people in this country to speak-up and to DEMAND that our lawmakers and the judicial system begin to function and represent the rest of us already, and you know, DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS!!!!
But what about having someone care for her as she dies? That matters.
Physicians may have known her fate, but ICE didn't. Which is the point -- they are heartless, cruel bastards.
I remember reading that it's worth buying and carrying quick-clot: even if you yourself don't know how to use it yourself, chances are there may be trained medical personnel or veterans who do know how, as was the case here.
The ICE agents held off the physician at gunpoint, and also didn't allow paramedics in emergency vehicles to drive to Renee Good, forcing them to get to her on foot. Ten minutes passed before any of them reached her body. Conclusion: the ICE agents wanted to make sure she was dead.
Which, to be clear, makes all of the agents present equally guilty of murder. Thats not just puffer either, denying someone the ability to recieve lifesaving medical aid is sufficient to be brought up on murder charges. Aiding someone in doing so is being an accessory after the fact.
And lets not pretend this is the FIRST time ICE has attacked or murdered people in the last year. BUT GOOD NEWS!
Guess who's budget is being negotiated, right now.
Is it possible that Congress may be regrowing a few cells of its spine?
Don't be silly. If they could grow a spine they'd use the stairs in front of the capitol instead of oozing to work through the fucking plumbing.
I'll believe that when I see it, or when Hell freezes over, whichever comes first.
The one ICE 'officer' (I hate calling them that) said "I don't care", very clearly, when the doctor said "I'm a physician".
I was astonished when I woke up today and the killing in Minneapolis was NOT among the top headlines in NYT digital edition. I felt like Rip Van Winkle. Plus, they keep referring to it as a “shooting”. No; it was a killing. It was state-murder.
My hope is fading that this horror could be a turning point.
They didn't even report the Minneapolis Mayor's actual words, which were "... to ICE, get the fuck out of Minneapolis".
I give Mayor Frey many"Likes" for the language he used.
I'm seeing a fair amount of coverage by other mainstream outlets. And remember that in the social media era, we as individuals aren't merely passive spectators -- we can push out content to our own networks. Kimmel's rehiring didn't happen by accident. We have agency.
Yes, and when it comes to content on our own networks, I am thankful every day for Substack. Just participating in this forum is a balm to the pain that’s looking for a place to land.
Me, too, and it is.
Remember every person with a smart phone becomes a video/documentarian. Every person becomes a journalist/ reporter.
It is a turning point that they have proven they can murder citizens with impunity.
I don't know about that. You could be right.
I'm stuck asking myself again, what kind of moment is this? Is it a Kent State moment? A Joe McCarthy moment? A Watergate moment?
If Renee Good's family will allow it, is it an Emmett Till moment? That courage by Emmett's mother changed our country for the better.
We know it doesn't matter if it is a Parkland moment or a Uvalde moment. Nothing came of those massacres of little children.
Am hoping it could be a James Reeb moment. Many people forget that the trigger for passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act was the killing of Reeb, a white Unitarian Minister, in Selma … by a bunch of racist thugs. Maybe someone in Congress can push a bill to end ICE.
People were on the streets, peacefully, holding vigils in nearly every city last night. Some people who met out there have now formed local resistance groups or joined existing ones, and they’re strategizing how to push back (peacefully) in the real world. The news doesn’t report on this and it’s not posted on social media. But Renee Good wasn’t killed on social media or in the news, she was killed on the street, and the turning point you’re looking for is happening there too.
You are right. Just before I turned everything off last night I was watching a Fox News feed on YouTube which mentioned plans underway for protests in multiple cities. Not for the first time, I’m disappointed in NYT’s deprioritizing this event, insofar as their editorial choices of leading stories.
They also vastly underestimated the crowd size of the NYC protest. I was there.
That’s another consistent pattern; minimizing the protests. It’s all part of something nefarious because they also are consistently more laser focused on any wrongdoing by Democrats than the glaring lawlessness of the GOP. In the 2016 election, they all but endorsed Trump just by virtue of their bizarrely critical coverage of Hillary, even the assessment of her laugh, which was essential to describe as our future hung in the balance.
Same for Kamala. Whenever something outrageous like this happens (alright, everyday), I think sarcastically to myself, "Well, at least we don't have to hear Kamala laugh." What a bunch of wangs these people are.
And they also attacked Kamala’s laugh. That’s all they got?
My imaginary response is similar to yours; “At least there aren’t any trans women on my volleyball team ball team!” I don’t play volleyball.
Same for the WaPo. If "democracy dies in darkness" WaPo is one of the chief suspects in democracy's murder.
Nicely put.
And Social Media like Facebook, Youtube, Instagram and even TikTok are covering this and started immediately. This is where Social Media gets messages out very quickly.
agreed, that is why I go to the Bulwark and other sources instead. NYT does some good investigative reporting, but for stuff like this they give way too much credence to a lying, violent regime.
The Bulwark is worth every penny. Especially this thoughtful comments community. Very unique.
I would only amend your astonishment by saying
"I was astonished when I woke up today and the killing of Renee Nichole Good in Minneapolis..."
I don't think you can say her name enough.
I agree, and I am adopting that important need now. I just watched a Jesse Welles YouTube video titled “Good vs ICE”.
As a side note and a fan of Welles’ protest-music and lyrics, he seemed deflated. Which reflects how I feel. I know the anger will resurface and give the fuel I need. It’s a roller coaster and we can’t get off.
numb:fury numb;fury numb;fury numb;fury numb;fury....
It is a shift in emotional states that is wearing this 76-year-old mind and body down that is requiring all my determination to calm, to meditate, and to rediscover all my necessary equanimity to carry on in the fight against this incipient fascism.
Agree. ”Keeping on” is a daily practice requiring conscious effort. I keep focusing on our young, who have so much more at stake. My son is parenting very young children; how?
Exactly
Is this why the NYT didn't cover the killing of Renee Good, an American citizen, by a masked ice agent in Minneapolis ,as the major story it is--did they pull their punches because The NYT did an interview with Trump last evening. Four reporters spent two hours with Trump at the White House. In the wide ranging interview, Trump tried to sell them his version -complete with footage purportedly backing him up--of the killing of Renee Good by a masked ice agent in Minneapolis yesterday. The NYT should have reported the killing of Renee Good by Ice with the seriousness it deserved and just not done that interview at the White House with Trump.
We’re getting immune to this, all of us, including the times
That’s what is so scary. It’s a true slippery slope.
Headlines aside, I want to highlight this video they did analyzing the footage to disprove the admin's claims: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html. This is one of the best videos showing what happened that I've seen so far.
We can debate all day about whether she should have been blocking traffic, whether she clipped the officer, or whether he feared for his life.
What is absolute is that none of these officers attempted to render aid. Further, they denied a physician's request to try to assess her and render aid. This is cruel, sociopathic, and immoral. In many states, it is a crime not to render aid when it is necessary. Every Jesus-professing, MAGA voting American should be on the record as to how they can justify this.
She was not blocking traffic; she was there as a legal observer. You can see another vehicle pass by her before the ICE vehicle stopped. They had no business getting out and harassing her in the first place. As to whether he feared for his life, riddle me this: if the only way to avoid being run over was to shoot, then why didn't shooting stop the car?
If she was blocking traffic, the ICE people should have requested that she move her car. Instead, they attacked her and tried to open the door and drag her out, which they had no right to do.
The people are not police, they are an attack force sent by Stephan Miller to intimidate and control the population. I expect they will return in force two weeks before the midterm elections.
She had waved the previous 2 ICE vehicles through before the third stopped and aggressively approached her and surrounded her car giving conflicting orders.
Thanks for providing this info. I keep reading that she was "blocking traffic" but I said to my husband, "Sure looks like from the video that there was plenty of room to just drive around her."
Even if they are police, shooting is not the way.
Our town (Dover NJ) was involved in a police shooting. A fleeing traffic offender. Even for police it is still not allowed. Our town paid a lot of money to the deceased's family.
I look forward to 100% of ICEs budget being paid out to victims of thier violence. Every fucking cent.
I completely agree with you--on every single point.
However, the Bulwark post raised the issue of blocking traffic, and I misstated my first point. I should have said ."..whether she was blocking traffic" instead of should have.
This post also gave a pass to Noem.
Very odd. I couldn't tell just whom Egger was even writing about.
Was she there as a legal observer?
I've read a report that her ex-husband said she was on her way home after dropping her 6 year old at daycare.
And she had two older kids as well.
Are those two functions mutually exclusive?
I'd think "on her way home" would mean straight home, but I don't insist on it.
Well, it's hearsay so kind of casual. The bit about the legal observer was widely reported yesterday but I think we're going to have to wait a few days to find out how solid any of this info about the circumstances is.
At the very, very end of the video, one of the ICE crew (perhaps the actual shooter) is shown nonchalantly walking away from Good's (murder victim) crashed suv with her inside it- not administering aid at all. Yes,-a cruel, dim-witted, and immoral human being from our country.
Yes. May he rot in hell.
"Cruel dim-witted and immoral..." Exactly the way Trump likes'em. Would not surprise us to learn that this standard is a part of the vetting process for ICE applicants.
And I'd like to hear how these people think shooting the driver of a moving 4,000-pound vehicle is justifiable to protect people in the vicinity, ICE agent, bystanding member of the public or anyone in a nearby house sipping coffee. Perhaps they give presumed "violent domestic terrorists" shot in the head the capacity to be able to step on the brakes and put the vehicle in park to avoid careening into anyone or anything in its path before bleeding out.
Every single law enforcement officer interviewed yesterday stated how irresponsible it is to shoot at a moving car.
Well, remember that ICE agents are not actually law enforcement officers except in name.
Many are probably proud boys, three percenters with a Dirty Harry attitude.
I read that shooting a fleeing vehicle is against DHS policy. I also read that DHS now says the officer who shot the victim had been dragged by a vehicle some months ago. DHS’s story is evolving.
Even if Rene Good was doing all of those things, SHOOTING TO KILL HER IS IN NO WAY AN ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE.
🎯. It is murder.
What is also scary are the endless, cruel replies from those agreeing with what the ICE agents did. Having seen various comments on Social Media, news media and other sources, it astounds me how many people have reacted after seeing video of Renee Good being killed. It truly is immoral. How did we get here as a people?
To Andrew's question of how people like McLaughlin and Noem and all the other trump mouthpieces live with themselves - they have no issues at all with lying for money because they are, each and every one, sociopaths. People, and there has always been a certain percentage of humans like this, people who have no conscience. They simply don't ever feel the sensation of guilt about lying that the rest of us do. And we all know someone in our lives like this. It's just that the sociopath trump has found and concentrated hundreds of them into his administration.
Noem killed her dog who she raised from a puppy. They say sociopaths often start on animals. Noem should be in a psychiatric unit not the Federal government.
While we with a moral center were all horrified at Noem’s dog shooting story (I recall the “why did her Editor let her keep it in the book” discussion), ICE Barbie knew who the story was for. From one sociopath to another. And it worked.
You are so right.
No. She belongs in prison.
She deserves to be a warning we tell our children about how she and other monsters like her followed a fascist felon until we dragged them out of our house and our government and gave them the Justice our government refuses to.
I believe she is the product of an abusive father, too. That cycle continues in adulthood and repeats itself....
The signature trait for a lot of MAGA is generational addiction and abuse. JD Vance wrote the book on it.
Vance proves himself to be (I wasn't completely sure before) a complete sociopath too with his comment listed above.
Even if Trump dies in office before 2028, we will still be stuck with a psychopathic leader in the WH.
I was sure. Reconsider what you are saying. We will not be stuck with Vance if all good people push back.
Vance is really unlikable and does not have the blind loyalty that Trump does.
Unless.......he divorces his current wife and marries Charlie Kirk's widow. That might help his chances.
Hell, if he did it right before the '28 election, like early October, he'd dominate the news cycle for weeks in our present-day infotainment culture, and might drive a last-minute surge of MAGA's to turn out on election day
It comes from the top, DJT
I had an abusive alcoholic father. But I was blessed with a wonderful mother. My family was poor. My mom worked nights as a cocktail waitress so she could be home in the day with her 5 kids. That’s where she met my alcoholic dad—go figure!! 😂 But my point is, I’m an adult. I have responsibility for my own choices and actions. Having a hard childhood shaped me, but it doesn’t define me. Those adults like Vance and Noem are just a-holes. Horrific humans. That have no business governing anyone.
I agree,
No excuses
I’ve read that there are many more sociopaths walking among us than we think. MAGA has eliminated any doubt.
Yeah, there's an interesting memoir by a diagnosed sociopath by Patric Gagne: https://www.elliottbaybook.com/item/gQpiPqSJBXiNa-XVIExjhQ. It's a fascinating read. Gagne has gone on to become a clinical psychologist.
Basically, we tend to associate the label with serial killers, but folks who are sociopaths who are properly socialized and exist in loving and supportive environments do not normally go on to be criminals. Like any of us, they can go on to become effective lawyers and innovative CEOs and ballsy financiers and successful bankers, all sorts of stuff.
But the thing is that they can do a lot of damage when things go wrong. Especially in abusive environments. Especially when given the wrong incentives. Especially when their diagnosis of sociopathy is exasperated by other psychoses, like malignant narcissism.
I recall a book title, “The Sociopath Next Door”. I was curious, but oddly too scared to read it. I thought it would lead to me seeing sociopathy everywhere and feeling overwhelmed.
It is excellent. The first chapter alone will help you decide whether to read it or not -- especially if you are a dog lover.
As I remember, the statistics the author presents in the book is 5% of all Americans are diagnosable as sociopaths. That's one in twenty. I used to think about that with every classroom of twenty students I had, and the number was usually right on target.
Jesus, that's frightening...
Thanks for the review. It does sound too on point for me, especially right now. I remember hanging out with a group of elementary school teachers when my own kids were students, who claimed (I believe correctly) that they could predict with high accuracy which young students would end up in prison.
Yep. It's a combination of factors that can determine (within a range of probability, of course) those young lives that are likely to go off the rails.
As teachers, we try to give just that extra level of support and pro-social role-modeling to them, but it is mostly just a Sisyphean exercise.
Don’t get stuck making these sociopaths victims.
Oh good grief! That’s a massive mis-reading.
Don’t excuse this by making them victims.
I didn't do that. In fact, the opposite. A medical diagnosis alone does not make them monsters is my point.
I agree. I think I got my threads twisting. Sorry.
Years ago, the estimate was about 1 in 10 are sociopaths, and another 1 in 10 are alcoholics. But I suspect the numbers have spiked.
There seems to be a concentration of them in the Trump Administration.
I bet those shocking numbers would be even more extreme if the population being evaluated were Trump supporters.
I’m not sure that the numbers have spiked. I think that many sociopaths have been able to run successful businesses without demonstrating evil sociopathic tendencies. Since Trump’s first election, and even more so with the second, his sociopathy has normalized sociopathic behaviors. 🤬 Humanity is in danger in the United States!
Not that it will matter, but in my personal dealing with this impotent rage we all feel now, I sent an email to FLETC in Brunswick, GA. expressing my disgust at their clear failure to properly train their recruits in firearm discharges. Will be moving back to the Brunswick coast region soon, lived in the area, mostly Jekyll Island and St.Simons Island, for near 30 years, and I think there needs to be some sort of national media attention , maybe organized protest daily outside the FLETC entrance, something
I think in general you are correct about their training, but I had a distincly different impression about this particular shooter. I don't think he was panicked at all and his accuracy was way beyond that of a panicked novice. I don't think it was by the grace of God he missed the passenger. He knew exactly where he was aiming.
That definitely gets to the heart of the quality of volunteer recruits ICE is getting. Lots of aggression and eagerness to wear an official uniform
He didn't act panicked at all. Or upset. And definitely not injured, at least not badly.
This thread is excusing the behavior.
In what way? I'm saying the opposite, that there was no indication that he feared for his life. Therefore, there was no justifaction for him to draw his gun, let alone kill her.
Didn't mean as reply to you. Sorry.
I agree.
I call her a monster but sociopath works too.
None of them are free of sociopathy.
💯
Ty I’m
I came to the sad realization this morning that we are already in a Civil War. The Federal went to Minneapolis against the wishes of the Governor of the State and the Mayor of the City to conduct immigration sweeps. As they have in other cities in America, the operations are performed provocatively. People in Minneapolis protest their opposition as well. This horrible event occurs. The Federal Government not only falsely insists that they are not to blame in any way for the incident, showing little or no remorse for the death of a citizen of the State and Country but continues their operation and insists that they will continue despite more forceful opposition from State and City officials and concerned citizens.
Lincoln did all that he could to avoid direct confrontation with citizens and states opposed to him and his administration. The current US Federal Government is seeking out confrontation. When we look back, lets remember that it wasn't us that started this.
Yes specifically to your last sentence. Trump has always advocated for violence and death. He likes chaos and watching people fight. And now he seems to be determined to have this occur more often.
It has been speculated that they want to create violence so Trump can send in the military (not National Guard) and suspend our elections. I suspect this is true.
The military has proven it is very comfortable executing illegal orders to murder civilians without legal justificationor even pretense, and comfortable in doing so at the orders of a drunk political commentator and a traitor, felon, and pedophile who says that members of the military are "losers and suckers". I expect they will be equally enthusiastic about dropping bombs on American cities, and i look forward to the reckoning that meets them and all the rest of the people supporting this administration.
I equally look forward to revoking the military service benefits and pensions of everyone who has supported Trump, as Trump is so eager to do to Senator Kelly.
Exactly what I am thinking. Especially after reading this from JVL. What else can it be when one side wants to destroy the other?
I have worked school carpool lines and been more endangered than that so called agent ever was. They want escalation. Vance's post proves that. I am so impressed with those MN citizens that continued to protest, because clearly our government currently wants us to feel scared. I hope I'm quoting correctly, but as Benjamin Franklin said, We must all hang together, or we will surely hang separately. We may just be there once again. As our founders were under threat from their government, so are we all now. I look forward to joining with other fellow patriots to rise up. (yes, now I'm quoting the musical Hamilton.)
I agree with you! I am filled with admiration for the bystander who can be heard in the video screaming at ICE after the murder.
I’m sorry to admit that I wouldn’t have had the courage to keep swearing at masked thugs who had just proven that they were happy to shoot and kill if they felt like it.
No kidding. Talk about the guts!
Like you, I'm not sure I'd do it either. The killer was strutting around confidently and clearly felt entitled to shoot people.
Moments of courage like hers seem to come from women more than men these days. Or am I missing the men who are also acting with courage and integrity?
I'd say day-to-day women exhibit more courage than men. Men are taught that "courage" is a form of giant one-off actions, the stuff of heroes. If you're someone who thinks of courage in this way, then it's a big hill to climb and you're likely to hedge, because it comes with a lot of risk.
The women I know do what they need to do, when they need to do it. Often it is quite. Other times it's screamed out loud, as in "You're a fucking murderer."
Beautiful, if sigh-inducing, analysis. Yes, I agree completely with it.
"They want escalation" - that's it.
They did that to the young woman they shot 5 times in Chicago after they rammed her vehicle. They wanted her to "make my day" so they could shoot her dead.
"In doing so, she turned past another agent standing near the front of her vehicle, possibly clipping him—the angle of the various videos makes it difficult to tell—with the corner of her front bumper."
Sorry Andrew, hard disagree. His legs were clearly on the side of the car when she went past him. I've had closer calls with cars when I worked at a gas station without "fearing for my life". If that made that scumbag fear for his life then he needs to go into another line of work. Seems like you're afraid to go against the magat propaganda line.
That's me, as a rule afraid to go against the MAGA propaganda line.
I understand the desire not to jump to conclusions and also not to assume we can know what is in the head of another person, but we have also seen way too many times law enforcement officers using the magic words, "I feared for my life" to avoid any liability for their actions. The use of deadly force has become far too reflexive followed immediately by the reflex to claim "self-defense" and "fear for my life." (We don't even know what this agent said, if anything, about his mindset although we can clearly see he is basically uninjured as he walked up the street to the car he shot into. McLaughlin and Noem may have simply just made this up themselves knowing that those are the magic words.) We have become inured to seeing video of law enforcement immediately drawing their gun and shooting someone who, the entire time before, was not a threat to them.
Renee Nicole Good was not a suspect in a crime, she was a 37-year-old mom driving in a residential neighborhood. Instead of approaching her calmly and asking her to move, the ICE agents escalated the encounter, grabbing at her door handle and yelling at her. It is unclear if they were all saying the same things. We have seen ICE and CBP agents violently assaulting people, dragging them out of their cars, beating and arresting them. You know what's really unsettling? Having a bunch of masked, armed federal agents surrounding your car and shouting at you. Has anyone bothered to ask if she feared for her life? Because she's the only one who ended up having that fear confirmed.
Regardless of any investigation, legality, technical analysis by law enforcement experts, blah, blah, blah, what we saw was wrong. Just wrong.
Let's keep in mind as well that ICE method of dealing with people filming them has been to point firearms at them and mimic shooting them. This is behavioral, and I guarantee that the coward who fled the scene after murdering Renee Good was bragging to his buddies just like the officer who executed the woman in Chicago under VERY similar circumstances.
I wonder if they're teaching them this at their "training" at FLETC in Brunswick Ga.
Nah, on the job training:
"This is how you intimidate reporters, now watch carefully, you have to do the next one."
"See that pastor over there? Aim for the head. "
"This is how you make it "look like" someone might be trying to hit you with thier car" just remember its very important to shoot them BEFORE they spot you or have a chance to react to your presence. Remember the Donroe doctrine is counting on you. Donnie got off scot free after 34 counts of fraud and basically living on Epstein island for years, we'll back you up. This is your chance to be a MAN!"
Giving fascists the benefit of the doubt has always worked out well for liberals.
ICE is protecting the wealth and power of the billionaire ruling class from the peasants, (We The People)! Minneapolis is just the beginning.
The ruling class doesn’t want protesters disrupting their control of commerce. They want starving, stupid, sad workers they can exploit without consequences.
The Independent UK is reporting on elderly Americans dying from malnutrition in record numbers. This is textbook class warfare.
https://www.the-independent.com/life-style/health-and-families/malnutrition-deaths-seniors-older-people-cdc-2026-b2894677.html
It's sophistry to nitpick the hyperbole of "afraid to go against the magat propaganda line". What you did was grant credulity to a grossly false interpretation of the visual evidence offered by ICE apologists without bothering to critically examine that evidence. It is, in fact, not possible that Good clipped Ross with the corner of her bumper, and as the NYT and Bellingcat have demonstrated, the main video we've seen over and over makes that absolutely clear if you break it down.
What you wrote was wrong. How about dropping the snide come-back and taking some fucking responsibility?
Mr. Egger, thank you so very much for the article. Please keep up the good work.
I have seen a lot of this, with people bending over backward to avoid seeming too knee-jerk. Infuriating, and part of the problem. Trump et al have no nuance. We on this side seem to revel in it. The guy was not clipped. And what some call an agent I call a Jack-Booted Thug.
The vehicle accelerated AFTER she was shot and "dead manned" the gas pedal.
I have to quarrel with "accelerated." To me it looks like the car continued at the speed and in the direction she set it on, slowing gradually before stopping. She never intended harm to him and the path of the car demonstrates that.
Exactly!
In addition, I saw a screenshot from a video that confirms my impression; he was reaching for his weapon while standing on two feet and unharmed.
Steve Schmidt's post this morning has a link to an analysis of the video. https://steveschmidt.substack.com/p/the-last-mask-has-dropped
I had high hopes for Jeffries, but now he and Schumer act like this is just an unfortunate phase we're going through now. When the democrats win next year, everything will return to normal. That's not going to happen!! We might be able to have an election and actually win without another J6. But it won't be easy, and it looks grimmer by the day.
I always felt that Schumer was a mush. Jeffries is turning out to be his twin. I was disappointed to hear Pelosi say he's so very ready to be a leader. He's no Pelosi.
And this is no normal Congress. We can't afford to wait for this vaunted 'bipartisanship' they keep whining about. We've lost so much already.
As long as you need 60 Senate votes to get things done, they will be singing bipartisanship--and I think they lack the courage to do away with the filibuster.
Well, getting rid of the filibuster is fascism, whereas unknown masked assailants shooting citizens in the face is just good government done the right way.
They lack the courage for a lot of things.
The republicans have torched many sacred cows, got evilly creative with the Constitution and laws. Again, rubber knife - AR15 fight.
Thanks for the link! Very interesting! Maybe Andrew should take a gander at it.
This line resonated with me, because it's true for all regimes that became totalitarian: "Fantastical lying over killing by the state is always a prelude to more killings — and inevitably war." We are all in danger from a regime that wants us dead.
Previous to yesterday, I would have said that was hyperbole, but now it just rings true. The biggest failure of Donald Trump is not to acknowledge that he is the President of ALL Americans, not just his followers. His only job is to improve the lives of ALL Americans. Every President seems to have known this. Trump does not, in fact, he defies the sentiment and rules only for his MAGA stans and rich cronies. I believe this will be key to his downfall because he doesn't have enough followers to form a majority. I still believe that there are more of us than there are of them and we will not stand being labeled "leftist lunatics who hate our country" for much longer. There is only so much you can take before an explosion is inevitable. Let's use that power for "Good." Maybe the next national protest should be about "Good" trouble. Remember her name.
As always, Schmidt is pushing for Democrats to stand up and do something. He then itemizes what steps can be taken right now to mobilize the opposition. Share his list with your Reps and Senators. They obviously need some sort of plan of action to follow since they are incapable of making one themselves. The sooner Schumer and Jeffries are replaced with people who can speak more passionately and forcefully about some positive plans, the better off we will be. We cannot just sit and wait until the midterms. Democrats need to act now. Steve's plan to gather the governors and form a coalition of action is smart. Dems in Congress should be pushing for things like this. Words are not going to change the system we find ourselves enmeshed in. Actions are required.
Yeah I was quite upset by Andrew’s characterization. She never saw the murderer come around the car she was engaged with the agent trying to film her and drag her out of her car for no crime!
I made the exact same point myself yesterday, that she likely didn't even see the officer they're accusing her of having tried to run down. How anyone could be taking me to be saying she was culpable in some way here is beyond me.
I’m sorry Andrew, I really respect your work. Just worked up living in south Minneapolis. I understand it’s so hard to accurately call out all the HHS bullshit. I was too hard on you. honestly it’s got to tough covering the administration and writing about it everyday and commend it.
No need to apologize! I'm just trying to make sure I'm understood.
I really appreciate it!
I think it's a case that it doesn't sound angry enough. Folks here are pissed off.
I noticed your phrasing too. I took it for journalistic tempering, but the sentiment at hand doesn't want that...
I can explain it in three points.
Legal: when a subject submits a written declaration that is proven to be false, you dont just throw out the statement, you throw out the whole witness, because nothing they say can be trusted. This is equally if not doubly true of officers of the court. We know ICE and DHS have been lying for months at this point, so believing anything they say without significant corroboration from multiple TRUSTWORTHY sources is grounds for malpractice. One maybe view from a camera angle is not sufficient. Not saying that ICE has consistently lied about its previous extrajudicial murders is collaborative.
Journalistic: take everything i just said about the law, and triple it. If your sources lie to you, they arent sources anymore, they are using you to create a narrative. See Bush and "WMDs". If you are selling yourself as a journalist (and you are) learn how it works.
Historic: a table full of friends are sitting in a restaurant having a good time. A nazi walks into the restaurant and joins them. Now you have a table full of nazis. It doesn't matter where on the spectrum you fall, if you make room at your table for nazis, you are a nazi. If you are offended bybthis I suggest you familiarize yourself with Popovs paradox of tolerance.
This is a pretty accurate statement. Hell, most of us watching the different videos didn't see the the shooter at the front of her car until she started pull forward
Yeah I agree, I give Andrew a lot of props for an otherwise powerful piece. It's mostly super solid and I agree with a lot of what he wrote. But this hedging on this was an unnecessary failure. There's no evidence to support the narrative Noem et al. immediately deployed, especially since they deployed it **before*** any evidence had been gathered or examined.
We need to call the lies lies. The Trumpists weaponize nuance.
I am doing no "hedging" except describing what I myself see in the footage. I've watched the various videos many, many times, read various analyses, and find myself unable to say with certainty whether the vehicle made slight contact with the officer or not. So I wrote as much.
Andrew I appreciate you, I really do. Thanks for sticking up for yourself too and your explanation. I guess I am describing how it read/looked to me in turn, though I initially phrased it pretty directly.
It looks an awful lot like the both-sidism that is an all-too-common failure of journalism in the Trump Era. I respect that this is not what you meant as you've explained. I offer the commentary then as an explanation for why you got some pushback from readers. Keep going, especially in reporting what you know to be true. We're going to be a bit spicy if we see y'all do anything that even looks a bit less than that, the toothlessness of other coverage is why we're hear reading your work.
The ICE thug could have stepped backward. He was standing within the range of her turning circle as she was turning away from him.
He either was bumped by the car as it turned past him or he stepped back to narrowly avoid it. Really, really hard to tell from the footage, in my opinion.
And certainly not justifying an extralegal execution in any case.
We need to call it Propaganda.
Noem had instantly reported from wherever she was coz-playing at the time with big hat on that the shooter who "allegedly was hit bu the suv" had to be hospitalized. The video that I watched showed him upright and moving with no harm being done to him. Suv did not come close to hitting him.....
How did all these chicken-shits end up in law enforcement? I don't go looking for trouble, but my god, I've never head a group more afraid to walk down the street than cops who take to murdering people....
The AP photo that I accidentally saw is seared into my brain. She had a glovebox full of stuffed animals.
Late last night I saw a video clip during Jake Tapper’s segment that showed a lot of blood on the deployed air bag. I let out an involuntary scream. Then I couldn’t stop crying. It was a life taken. I’m so angry and lost.
This is hard.
I think a lot of us feel the same exact way.
Bill ends his piece with, "I’m just one citizen. But I stand with Renee Nicole Good."
I second Bill. I'm just one citizen. But I stand with Renee Nicole Good too.
We all should.
Tim and Bill joked about the "warmth of collectivism," but ultimatley Bill correctly said that some things require collective action.
This is how it works. Bill, you're one person. MAP, you're one person. I'm one person, I will stand with Renee Nicole Good too with you two.
All of us will.
Now we're not just one person, we're an extremely powerful group of many people that can apply a lot of collective pressure.
And guess what, when it's cold, it's warmer to huddle together.
I stand with Renee Nicole Good
There's the catchphrase for our next national protest. I like it. I stand with Renee Nicole Good!
What else is there to say about the murder of Nicole Good. Masked agents of the state are now summarily executing American citizens in broad daylight. Only blocks from the murder of George Floyd, also by an agent of the state. With Floyd, the right waited for a few years before attempting to smear the victim and minimize the incident. Now, they won’t even wait a day.
Separately, last night, the President sent out a bleat telling private corporations how to spend their money. Sure it was the much despised defense industrial complex, but according to Trump, stock dividends and executive pay are no way for a company to spend its money. I know we are still in a tizzy over the “warmth of collectivism,” but let’s keep an eye out for the actual socialism.
It was an assassination!
I have been puzzled why Kirk’s death has been termed an assassination but the deaths of others, like Melissa and Mark Hortman (Minnesota) have been termed murders.
The Hortman murders are called an assassination here in Minnesota but nowhere else. It's all because of Trump and the media.
Murders which they wish to pin on Tim Walz and Dems.
Thought exercise, not a call for action: this appears to be the exact kind of federal tyranny the 2nd amendment exists to deter. So if the armed citizens of Minnesota decide to invoke their 2nd amendment rights against federal government tyranny, is that a federal crime to shoot at the perpetrators murdering citizens of their state or is it what The Founders envisioned?
Who gets to decide when it’s ok to cite the 2nd amendment as grounds to literally fight an oppressive federal government? Because I’ve heard from alleged 2nd amendment absolutists for decades now that the reason we are allowed to keep and bear arms is exactly for this moment and they are nowhere to be seen other than licking the boots of the thugs doing the federal government sanctioned killing. Interesting.
The anti government gun nuts have finally elected a government they may actually have to use their guns against…
And ironically they never would resist the actual tyrant, as long as it’s THEIR tyrant.
THIS!!!
Irony is not dead.
I've been thinking about this because yesterday there were **a lot** of calls to not "give Trump what he wants" i.e., "do not shoot back at the ICE agents when they engage in arbitrary and lawless violence towards US citizens."
The argument is that Trump wants a pretext. He wants an even more violent crackdown, so he's trying to provoke protestors into taking it too far resisting ICE and DHS.
But... like... let's say that's true... do they know that they are going to get "their" agents (JD's words) killed? Do the agents know that they're being used as bait? Because if there isn't accountability, if the ICE agents really do lawlessly kill people and there is no justice, that is going to get more people killed. And there's a lot more gun owners in Minneapolis than there are ICE agents.
I'm not saying it's good or it should happen and I'm not making a call to action. I'm wondering if the folks who say, "They want to provoke you!," realize they're suggesting that the Trumpists view the ICE/DHS agents themselves as disposable and worthless -- cut bait, on a hook.
That's also an awful thought. I don't have a ton of sympathy for ICE agents, but I believe in the sanctity of all human life and so I'm distraught by a system that discards even people engaged in wrongdoing as disposable... No human being is disposable...
"Do the agents know that they're being used as bait?"
My point exactly. But no they don't, because they are drunk on the power that has been given them. And yes, one or more of them will be killed during one of these altercations. Doesn't make it right. Doesn't even the score.
None of us know where this headed, but it ain't where any of us want to be.
Do you think that any of the people in the Administration care if some peons die?
Do you think any of these new ICE agents think or believe that THEY will possible be killed?
Decades of creative sociological research have demonstrated the incredible dehumanizing/anti-civilized effect of anonymity. Give a gang masks and guns and the probability of gross trespass goes way up.
I'm uncomfortable saying this, but I think our way forward (AT THIS POINT) is to take on the anonymity rather than the guns, and then exploit the information in an asymmetrical fashion. If you can dox me despite my mask, and then raise my stakes by sending pizza to my child by name at school, I might decide that I don't want to play this game anymore. Ugly tactic, but now you have my attention.
In an amazing feat of crowdsourcing armchair sleuths identified hundreds of J6 rioters sufficiently to send them to prison. This will be harder, but the effort is equally important. To collect other useful info, set up game cameras to catch license plates turning off the public road into Glenco. Recruit desk clerks to report on large blocks of government-rate rooms being let at the local Days Inn by the Interstate. Get a bunch of your favorite flavor of AirTag-like trackers and glue them to a small magnet; attached to an ICE vehicle they will reveal end-of-day rally points. They can also provide beginning of day intel on where vehicles are staging and which neighborhoods need to lock up. Peel the onion and someplace find where the government vehicles meet up with agents' private vehicles.
The eventual, "I know where your family lives" may be the come-to-Jesus moment wherein someone decides to be a "former ICE agent". Yuck. Now I have to wash my brain out with soap.
This is essentially correct.
One of the things that our modern society in the US has killed (to a degree and in certain ways) is the idea of people enforcing social norms.
What used to be a common (and, frankly) necessary tool in the functioning of civilization has been derided, vilified, and deemed as being something beyond the pale. Something worthy of punichment, in and of itself.
There are good, legitimate reasons to keep some things hidden. To keep some identities hidden.
There are also good and legitimate reasons for some things to NOT be hidden and for some things to NOT be put up with.
I understand how and why you feel like you state. It somehow feels "dirty" in our contemporary social setting. I see it as enforcing a legitimate social norm WRT the behavior of law enforcement.
Note, for the record, that I use my actual name here. I think anonymity in social media is something that should not be allowed. Never should have been allowed. A lot of the truely nasty stuff that goes down would go down less often if there was no anonymity.
Everyone is just a pawn in this obscene regime.
I've heard a lot of lies from a lot of people, but the lie that people wanted guns in case of a tyrannical government was always the most transparently laughable and false. Right up there with "I'd vote for a woman, just not one that's ever run for anything."
People want guns because they fantasize hurting others or because they are aware that others fantasize about hurting them.
Several years ago I saw an article that said something to the effect of, as if the 2nd amendment means that a guy in his basement with a rifle is going to be able to take on the 101st Airborne Division.
It makes them feel powerful.
While an argument can be made to support the use of firearms against an oppressive government, it would just play into the hands of the domestic terrorists who populate the current Executive Brach of the US Government. The Stephen Miller/Russell Vought/Kevin Roberts triumvirate is the ideological force behind this tragedy. They want violent confrontation in order to use the US Military to quell any demonstrations. As Stephen Miller so succinctly stated "It's all about power". They have it. They will use it.
As this administration has publicly stated, the only true law is brute force and the ability to impose will. Getting away with it is the only necessary condition to make it legitimate.
Thank you , Bill. Yes, say her name.
What I've seen on Facebook are the several comments from people of color saying something to the effect of "Now you see what we go through with respect to interactions with federal agents." Very sad that this is true to some degree. Also, very sad to see a gulf growing much larger between law enforcement and the governed, to everyone's detriment. Trump wants this and revels in it.
Thank you for bringing up this dimension.
I was thinking last night how this reminded me of George Floyd's murder: it's not rare at all for law enforcement to overreact and bully like this. We would never even have known it happened if there hadn't been video. Law enforcement is trying to lie and gaslight their way out of it even though there IS video. There is a tendency for media to accept police descriptions of shootings as credible, because we SHOULD be able to consider law enforcement credible, but unfortunately that's not always the case. Ken White, who posts on bluesky as Popehat, writes about nearly every day.
And clearly it's far, far worse for people of color and low-income people.
Yep.
If we can't sympathize with/support people who do not match our personal demographics and culture, whatever they experience will eventually befall us.
They didn’t use her name because they want to dehumanize her. This is why people use racial epithets too. They don’t want people to feel empathy for her or horror at her death by the Trump Death Squad.
Yes, which is why we need to always say the names of the victims. They are not so far from us.
I'm fine with not naming the perpetrators for the most part. But there are instances when they need to be explicitly and clearly identified.
It's a terrifying thought, but I imagine Trump all alone in his room at night, watching TV and posting incessantly on Truth Social while smiling malignantly. He really does ENJOY the mayhem and strife he creates. We must not let his pure evil take over our country. Fight, Fight, Fight must become OUR motto now, stripped from the Pretender.
I agree. From all the reading I did prior to his first run, he has always been this way - hateful, belligerent, cruel, manipulative.
"it is possible that the officer who fired the shots had indeed feared for his life." No. I realize there's a journalistic obligation to be objective and evenhanded, but let's be real. Even if she had slightly clipped him with her car (highly doubtful) he had *no* reason to fear for his life at the point when he fired three shots into her.
Cops don't get to execute a person because they're pissed that she didn't comply. Even if we want to go out of our way to be generous and say the ICE guy panicked, that doesn't make the shooting justifiable. Cops don't get a special exemption for killing people in a fit of rage or panic. The fact that they often get away with doing just that is down to our insane deference to law enforcement in this country, and a lot of well-meaning journalism helps feed that deference by giving credence to their bullshit excuses. Please don't do that.
Also if you're fearing for your life, why would you APPROACH the source of danger rather than getting the heck out of the way? What if the driver had had a gun and fired first?
I don't believe all ICE agents are racist thugs. There aren't many decent jobs at that education level, let alone jobs that offer signing bonuses and excellent benefits. If you have debts to pay or a family to support, how could you resist applying? They are clearly being inadequately trained and badly led, with a culture that's going to turn even the best into their worst selves.
What are we going to do with these people if our democracy survives and we get a chance to eliminate ICE? It will be like trying to rehabilitate the child soldiers in post-civil war Liberia.
If you look at the video that captures the scene from above and slightly in front of Good's car, it looks like the shooter actually leans over the hood slightly, as if he thinks he can physically stop the car. It's the kind of reflexive move you'd do if you have no training and you're amped up for confrontation. I think the kindest thing you can say about this guy is that he's a gun-happy idiot.
I have a little bit of sympathy for ICE agents who were already on board before this campaign of terror started. It's hard to walk away from a job with good pay and benefits if you have responsibilities beyond yourself and you've built a life around that livelihood. And if they walk away now, they're always going to be tainted with that Trump stink. But I have zero respect or sympathy for anyone who signed up over the past year. They all knew exactly what they were being hired for and said, "Yeah, sounds good." The lure of the money is no excuse for selling your soul.
"Cops don't get to execute a person because they're pissed that she didn't comply" says it all. Yet the likes of Stephen Miller would argue that point.
“The rest of McLaughlin’s statement was pure invention. McLaughlin accused Good of deliberately attempting to run down “ICE agents, a statement completely at odds with the clear video evidence. (One video shows Good waving at ICE vehicles to drive around her prior to the incident taking place.) Her accusation that Good was guilty of “domestic terrorism” was an unbelievable, outrageous smear—a baldfaced lie about an American citizen killed by her own government, before her body was even cold on the ground.2”
The statement is irrelevant; it’s all semantics!
Don’t forget that Trump signed NSPM-7 which designates anyone who interferes with ICE agents in the line of duty, or protests ICE while in the process of making an arrest, or has the audacity to Dox and agent; they would be considered domestic terrorists. Bottom line, if you sneeze in the wrong direction, you could be a domestic terrorist!
Obviously, this is in direct contradiction of the 4th and 5th amendments, but considering all of the other unconstitutional actions by this administration, in which no price has been paid, then we must conclude that whatever democracy has ever existed, is no more!
I’m waiting for the lawsuits, because if we do nothing, then ICE will have a license to Kill; a goon squad answerable to no one except Trump and Miller. Let that sink in! IMHO…:)
The coordinated and outrageous lying is from the tutelage of Roy Cohn; lie repeatedly and make ‘em whoppers and never back down.
Exactly! Repeat a lie often enough, and eventually people will believe it!
Hey, it worked extremely well on The Apprentice!…:)
It’s amazing to see how well it works in real time, right in front of our eyes. Some prescient authors knew . . .
It seems important to remember that the incursion of 2,000 ICE thugs into Minneapolis is due to the fake “reporting” on Somali daycare centers by a junior MAGA from elsewhere. He was on a mission to stir trouble and he succeeded. Now I’m guessing he has a bright future within the regime.
Well, yeah, he brought a gun to a day care center. A real Kyle Rittenhouse with a bright future.
I didn’t even know about the gun part of the story. Good grief.
What most commentaries fail to mention is that the ICE agents did the exact opposite of good police procedure. Cops are supposed to de-escalate the situation. These guys escalated the situation and quickly. Really bad police work with tragic consequences.
They were never trained in police procedure. They were trained to bust car windows, break into homes and abuse people, There's nothing "police" about them.
They were trained to intentionally escalate situations. It's obvious from how they are almost always the initial aggressors. Peaceful protests won't give Trump his excuse to bring in the military or declare martial law.
If only the police would say something. But they seem to be taking ICE's side here.