There are no good conservatives. As Marx says, they feel oppressed when their sense of entitlement is affronted. They do not do well in an inclusive, liberal society and will destroy it if liberals don't start fighting, hard.
What a great conversation, like an oasis in our cultural desert. One thing the interview did for me right off the bat was hearing from others how bad Taylor Swift's music is and how to explain her popularity in spite of it. It was also wonderful to hear from others something that I've been thinking about which is, what happened to serious criticism? David Marx's explanation makes perfect sense, in that popularity rather than quality has overtaken if not all aspects of our culture, it dominates it.
I'll write more later, but I just wanted to thank Sonny Bunch and David Marx for a fascinating look at how and why the avant garde, high culture, and excellence is in decline.
I was so tickled by everything in this conversation! My favorites: AI as polyester. And, gosh darn it, the explanation of how 24 did cliffhangers right before the commercial break and then resolved it within 5 minutes of coming back from the commercial break...explains SO MUCH. I watched 24 on streaming, and always found this plot mechanism so odd, of course, because there are no commercial breaks. Light bulb!
Just ordered the book and cannot wait to dig in. As a student of art and design and a lover of politics this discussion made sense of so many disparate loose ends, including Trump’s rise in popularity.
This was such a great conversation. I did an academic program in my youth with David for a few years, and now he pops up occasionally in my podcast feed. He is always insightful and a great listen.
I've been to cern in switzerland. And I saw Tim Berners-Lee's Next computer where he invented the modern internet (http and all that). And upon spying it, I took out my sledgehammer and smashed it to bits. Then got back into my time machine & whisked away ... (only then realizing in fact i had to go back even farther in time since that was in a museum)
Anyway -- it's a metaphorically based comment. Can we just admit -- this internet thing is a complete and horrible failure?
My family and I have been wondering about this cultural stagnation. There have never been so many creative people freed to make videos, music, and books and distribute them without barriers. So why is everything Marvel rehash and toxic nostalgia? I am very glad you're taking on this subject and I'm out looking for this book to read now.
Kate - everyone can be a creator and everything’s accesible. So who can find the “good stuff” and has the time to absorb it. In some ways, abundance is a problem 😊
Curation has value. But I’m not comfortable turning it over to AI. I appreciate Bulwarkers (staff & Commenters) who point stuff out. Trusted neighbors!
This pod gave me way more to think about than I thought it would. Ordered Marx's book to get deeper into it. Such a wide-ranging discussion, touched on some topics that first seemed unrelated then Marx tied them together. So, I'm an old. This book seemed like it's helping explain a pop culture much more recent than "my time" -a world which I often feel is unknown to me... e.g., how often when watching SNL intro, my spouse & I haven't heard of either the host or musical guest 🤔🤷♀️
Recently reread Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. Got some hints of some similar analysis from Marx here. Postman came from an earlier high culture, writing in the early 1980s as an academic. Marx sounds more steeped in pop/commercial culture but does some reflecting on wider implications for politics and social cohesion, our sense of attention. I think these are big elements in our current fracturing (if not the overall collapse of civilization).
Especially appreciated the disc re: norms & transgression ~ 20-30 minute period. Sonny's theory of the Internet: "once upon a time there were lots of weirdos & they were all separate & they had mimeograph machines..." A+, and you get extra credit for knowing what a mimeograph was! I can still smell that purple ink
Mimeographs...yes 40 years ago I worked in a radio station. The station would receive mimeographed or Xerox'd copies of a letter laying out a conspiracy theory. Many times there was handwritten prose in the margins, between the lines, underlining or exclamation points added. All of them beseeched the station to publish this stuff, to talk about it on the air. Now the authors of such things just go online, upload a video without having to ask a radio or tv station, or a newspaper to talk about their theories.
There are no good conservatives. As Marx says, they feel oppressed when their sense of entitlement is affronted. They do not do well in an inclusive, liberal society and will destroy it if liberals don't start fighting, hard.
What a great conversation, like an oasis in our cultural desert. One thing the interview did for me right off the bat was hearing from others how bad Taylor Swift's music is and how to explain her popularity in spite of it. It was also wonderful to hear from others something that I've been thinking about which is, what happened to serious criticism? David Marx's explanation makes perfect sense, in that popularity rather than quality has overtaken if not all aspects of our culture, it dominates it.
I'll write more later, but I just wanted to thank Sonny Bunch and David Marx for a fascinating look at how and why the avant garde, high culture, and excellence is in decline.
I was so tickled by everything in this conversation! My favorites: AI as polyester. And, gosh darn it, the explanation of how 24 did cliffhangers right before the commercial break and then resolved it within 5 minutes of coming back from the commercial break...explains SO MUCH. I watched 24 on streaming, and always found this plot mechanism so odd, of course, because there are no commercial breaks. Light bulb!
"creative invention is a social good"
YES!!
thank you very much for this, can't wait to read the book
Just ordered the book and cannot wait to dig in. As a student of art and design and a lover of politics this discussion made sense of so many disparate loose ends, including Trump’s rise in popularity.
I'm not sure I can reconcile listening to Pear Jam as meaning I'm old....
look it is what it is, the icy hand of death comes for us all
I recall Joni Ernst's proclamation nearly every day: "We're all going to die."
This was such a great conversation. I did an academic program in my youth with David for a few years, and now he pops up occasionally in my podcast feed. He is always insightful and a great listen.
Best episode of BGTH yet!
I've been to cern in switzerland. And I saw Tim Berners-Lee's Next computer where he invented the modern internet (http and all that). And upon spying it, I took out my sledgehammer and smashed it to bits. Then got back into my time machine & whisked away ... (only then realizing in fact i had to go back even farther in time since that was in a museum)
Anyway -- it's a metaphorically based comment. Can we just admit -- this internet thing is a complete and horrible failure?
My family and I have been wondering about this cultural stagnation. There have never been so many creative people freed to make videos, music, and books and distribute them without barriers. So why is everything Marvel rehash and toxic nostalgia? I am very glad you're taking on this subject and I'm out looking for this book to read now.
Kate - everyone can be a creator and everything’s accesible. So who can find the “good stuff” and has the time to absorb it. In some ways, abundance is a problem 😊
Curation has value. But I’m not comfortable turning it over to AI. I appreciate Bulwarkers (staff & Commenters) who point stuff out. Trusted neighbors!
This pod gave me way more to think about than I thought it would. Ordered Marx's book to get deeper into it. Such a wide-ranging discussion, touched on some topics that first seemed unrelated then Marx tied them together. So, I'm an old. This book seemed like it's helping explain a pop culture much more recent than "my time" -a world which I often feel is unknown to me... e.g., how often when watching SNL intro, my spouse & I haven't heard of either the host or musical guest 🤔🤷♀️
Recently reread Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. Got some hints of some similar analysis from Marx here. Postman came from an earlier high culture, writing in the early 1980s as an academic. Marx sounds more steeped in pop/commercial culture but does some reflecting on wider implications for politics and social cohesion, our sense of attention. I think these are big elements in our current fracturing (if not the overall collapse of civilization).
Especially appreciated the disc re: norms & transgression ~ 20-30 minute period. Sonny's theory of the Internet: "once upon a time there were lots of weirdos & they were all separate & they had mimeograph machines..." A+, and you get extra credit for knowing what a mimeograph was! I can still smell that purple ink
Mimeographs...yes 40 years ago I worked in a radio station. The station would receive mimeographed or Xerox'd copies of a letter laying out a conspiracy theory. Many times there was handwritten prose in the margins, between the lines, underlining or exclamation points added. All of them beseeched the station to publish this stuff, to talk about it on the air. Now the authors of such things just go online, upload a video without having to ask a radio or tv station, or a newspaper to talk about their theories.
I'm of the age where I both had mimeographed worksheets and print-at-home pdfs. Truly a hinge generation.
Thanks to you both. Fascinating and important conversation