You think the "he's too old" attacks are ugly, wait until we move into racism and misogyny devised by Mr. Swift Vets for Truth! It's gonna be great!
Also -- if you -- obviously not you, Mike -- think a brokered convention or "flash primary" isn't going to completely break the Dem coalition apart, take a look at this comments section for the past two weeks and think again.
And if you think that politicians who want to be POTUS are going to pull their punches "for the greater good" I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
1. I think Biden is too old. I think he did shitty at the debate. However I think America would rather vote for an old white guy in a wheel chair than a smart aggressive black woman. I hope IтАЩm wrong
2. The people imagining that a brokered convention will be some type of good look for dems. IтАЩm honestly just shocked by such a myopic take. There is no chance it will be тАЬgoodтАЭ for dems. It will be one big shit sando. It will be so awful with people attacking each other and debating Medicare for all.
We keep saying a smart aggressive black woman can't get elected but we forget it really depends on the candidate. Al Sharpton would never be elected president, but Barack Obama was. Hillary Clinton didn't get elected, but maybe Nikki Haley or Gretchen Whitmer could. It needs to be the right candidate. Michelle Obama could get elected if she wanted the job, if we're to believe the polls!
Michelle couldnтАЩt get elected now. She popular precisely because she isnтАЩt political. The moment she becomes political her fav/unfavs will look like every other politician.
Obama was a generational politician but even he couldnтАЩt get elected today. Timing matters just as much as political talent. A black man couldnтАЩt be elected in the 1950s and I donтАЩt think he could be elected now. We are partially here because of a backlash to Obama (not his fault).
Yep, there was a backlash to Obama that certainly helped Trump, but these things go in cycles. At some point there will be a backlash against Trump and Trumpism, hopefully this year but it's not looking good at the moment.
Of course Michelle's numbers would go down if she actually decided to run, but as you say that's what happens to every politician. It doesn't mean her race would prevent her from being elected.
Absolutely fair. My point is that people like Michelle precisely because she isnтАЩt political and they can project their hopes and dreams on her. Once she comes out with positions everything flips.
There will be a backlash to Trump eventually. When? Who knows.
My prediction: Michelle will play the same role Eleanor Roosevelt played at the 1940 convention where the Dems were in revolt and coming apart on the 4th night. Michelle will unify the Dems as Eleanor did.
Eleanor said: "We cannot tell from day to day what may come. This is no ordinary time. No time for weighing anything except what we can do best for the country as a whole, and that responsibility rests on each and every one of us as individuals" (https://fdrlibrary.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/found-in-the-archives-9/).
The only thing a brokered convention does is give the media another opportunity to feast on "Dems in Disarray!" while we are once again not focusing on the convicted felon/child rapist/Rule of Law destroyer who is the nominee of the GOP.
Granted, it is a possibility that it could be a shit show. As Linda Chavez suggested; it could also show which party is the democracy party, suck oxygen from Trump, create excitement and enthusiasm for a new candidate, regain donor money.You never know til it happens.
They've already voted for an old white guy in a wheelchair with a successful record once.
Biden is too old, and I love the guy and the results. Do I wish that he'd said he wasn't running for re-election after the midterms (particularly in hindsight)? Sure. But I think an open Dem primary combined with October 7 + losing incumbency would have been another roll of the dice, particularly against Trump and the GOP slime machine. I also wish that Nikki Haley had won the GOP primary so we wouldn't all be panicking and fearing for the end of America.
But this is the hand we've been dealt and the race we're running. Hate the GOP all you want, but they win 50% of elections even though we win 70% of the electorate with our ideas. They know how to fight and drive a narrative, while the Dems get bullied by the mainstream press. This Biden should drop out story has gone on longer than the coverage of Trump's 34 felony convictions.
If I had faith in voters to vote for Kamala I would be so down with switching Biden out.
I find people who think that a brokered convention as good for Dems living in a fantasy world. They create rules that canтАЩt be endorsed, many times canтАЩt happen, and create rules that just conflict with itself (we will have debates but they wonтАЩt be negativeтАжcome on. WhatтАЩs the point of a debate if you donтАЩt hammer out differences in policy)
I disagree, Holli. Why? Because the Dems united behind Biden after his SC win in 2020. Pete B won IA and Bernie NH & NV. They both did very poorly in SC. All the candidates dropped out and supported Biden because he was the best - the only - candidate to beat Trump.
My bet is the same thing happens in 2024 when Trump is even more of a threat. This comments section is a conversation, and it doesn't end until the third night of the convention. It might even end sooner than that.
Racism is a huge problem, and adding misogyny makes it even worse!
You think the "he's too old" attacks are ugly, wait until we move into racism and misogyny devised by Mr. Swift Vets for Truth! It's gonna be great!
Also -- if you -- obviously not you, Mike -- think a brokered convention or "flash primary" isn't going to completely break the Dem coalition apart, take a look at this comments section for the past two weeks and think again.
I still remember the Hillary Barak fights in 2008. A mini-primary will leave some factions feeling left out.
And if you think that politicians who want to be POTUS are going to pull their punches "for the greater good" I've got a bridge in Brooklyn you might be interested in.
I know. God I know. ItтАЩs like these people want an outcome so bad that they just completely ignore what will happen and create some fantasy world.
They did so in 2020. Why is 2024 different?
How about the London bridge in Arizona? :)
Honestly IтАЩm at a loss for the 2 things:
1. I think Biden is too old. I think he did shitty at the debate. However I think America would rather vote for an old white guy in a wheel chair than a smart aggressive black woman. I hope IтАЩm wrong
2. The people imagining that a brokered convention will be some type of good look for dems. IтАЩm honestly just shocked by such a myopic take. There is no chance it will be тАЬgoodтАЭ for dems. It will be one big shit sando. It will be so awful with people attacking each other and debating Medicare for all.
We keep saying a smart aggressive black woman can't get elected but we forget it really depends on the candidate. Al Sharpton would never be elected president, but Barack Obama was. Hillary Clinton didn't get elected, but maybe Nikki Haley or Gretchen Whitmer could. It needs to be the right candidate. Michelle Obama could get elected if she wanted the job, if we're to believe the polls!
Michelle couldnтАЩt get elected now. She popular precisely because she isnтАЩt political. The moment she becomes political her fav/unfavs will look like every other politician.
Obama was a generational politician but even he couldnтАЩt get elected today. Timing matters just as much as political talent. A black man couldnтАЩt be elected in the 1950s and I donтАЩt think he could be elected now. We are partially here because of a backlash to Obama (not his fault).
Just July opinion though
Yep, there was a backlash to Obama that certainly helped Trump, but these things go in cycles. At some point there will be a backlash against Trump and Trumpism, hopefully this year but it's not looking good at the moment.
Of course Michelle's numbers would go down if she actually decided to run, but as you say that's what happens to every politician. It doesn't mean her race would prevent her from being elected.
Absolutely fair. My point is that people like Michelle precisely because she isnтАЩt political and they can project their hopes and dreams on her. Once she comes out with positions everything flips.
There will be a backlash to Trump eventually. When? Who knows.
My prediction: Michelle will play the same role Eleanor Roosevelt played at the 1940 convention where the Dems were in revolt and coming apart on the 4th night. Michelle will unify the Dems as Eleanor did.
Eleanor said: "We cannot tell from day to day what may come. This is no ordinary time. No time for weighing anything except what we can do best for the country as a whole, and that responsibility rests on each and every one of us as individuals" (https://fdrlibrary.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/found-in-the-archives-9/).
The only thing a brokered convention does is give the media another opportunity to feast on "Dems in Disarray!" while we are once again not focusing on the convicted felon/child rapist/Rule of Law destroyer who is the nominee of the GOP.
Granted, it is a possibility that it could be a shit show. As Linda Chavez suggested; it could also show which party is the democracy party, suck oxygen from Trump, create excitement and enthusiasm for a new candidate, regain donor money.You never know til it happens.
Yep. Absolutely.
We use to have brokered conventions all the time. Do you know why we donтАЩt anymore? BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPLETE SHITSHOWS!!!
I canтАЩt understand why people canтАЩt see that the reason we went to primaries is because brokered conventions hurt the dems.
They've already voted for an old white guy in a wheelchair with a successful record once.
Biden is too old, and I love the guy and the results. Do I wish that he'd said he wasn't running for re-election after the midterms (particularly in hindsight)? Sure. But I think an open Dem primary combined with October 7 + losing incumbency would have been another roll of the dice, particularly against Trump and the GOP slime machine. I also wish that Nikki Haley had won the GOP primary so we wouldn't all be panicking and fearing for the end of America.
But this is the hand we've been dealt and the race we're running. Hate the GOP all you want, but they win 50% of elections even though we win 70% of the electorate with our ideas. They know how to fight and drive a narrative, while the Dems get bullied by the mainstream press. This Biden should drop out story has gone on longer than the coverage of Trump's 34 felony convictions.
Migs, you sound like Rick Wilson (via Mike Steele's podcast)
If I had faith in voters to vote for Kamala I would be so down with switching Biden out.
I find people who think that a brokered convention as good for Dems living in a fantasy world. They create rules that canтАЩt be endorsed, many times canтАЩt happen, and create rules that just conflict with itself (we will have debates but they wonтАЩt be negativeтАжcome on. WhatтАЩs the point of a debate if you donтАЩt hammer out differences in policy)
There is a line in a song by America, "You never know til you try" *Lonely People
But IтАЩm looking for people to make a case now if they want Biden to dropout. ThatтАЩs on bill
I disagree, Holli. Why? Because the Dems united behind Biden after his SC win in 2020. Pete B won IA and Bernie NH & NV. They both did very poorly in SC. All the candidates dropped out and supported Biden because he was the best - the only - candidate to beat Trump.
My bet is the same thing happens in 2024 when Trump is even more of a threat. This comments section is a conversation, and it doesn't end until the third night of the convention. It might even end sooner than that.
The racists aren't going to vote for Biden anyway.
They'd vote for Biden over Harris. You don't think there's closet racists and misogynists in the Democratic coalition?
There aren't enough of them. If Obama and HRC could get their votes, Harris can too. IF she is a strong candidate (that's a big if).