Look, I'm a big Biden fan. But looking at this post-debate performances objectively, he's not cutting it, whether it's the Sunday oval office or Lester Holt. It's barely a C - not much energy and the verbal stumbles continue. Yes, he can give a energized rally speech off a teleprompter, but he did plenty of those pre-debate (remember STO…
Look, I'm a big Biden fan. But looking at this post-debate performances objectively, he's not cutting it, whether it's the Sunday oval office or Lester Holt. It's barely a C - not much energy and the verbal stumbles continue. Yes, he can give a energized rally speech off a teleprompter, but he did plenty of those pre-debate (remember STOU) and the polls barely budged. He's behind and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that rally speeches will turn it around. Yes, he might be able to do the job, but that's not the question. Can he turn the "too old" perception around? That's it. And the cement is hardening.
Agree fully. I sponsor a private political discussion group of friends on FB, totaling around 50 and ranging from center-right to center-left, with a few more leftward folk included. Two members are firmly in the "only Biden" camp. Their reasoning is largely grounded in the record of his administration, also noting that he beat Trump before. They don't look at the situation through the eyes of an undecided voter . They may think that diligent analysis of policy differences will bring said voters to Biden. But it's not the diligent voter that will decide the election, it's the casual one who might not vote but decides to late in the campaign. And they just don't seem to get the attractiveness of the "Trump show", compared to the kind and well-meaning old man. This blindness will install the oligarchy of the far right.
The undecided will consider what they hear about Biden. If they hear about the great past 4 years and all of his experience they will vote for him. if they hear whiney indecisive voices from Democrats they won't. It's as simple as that.
I was wondering if I was the only one who was hearing Joe's habit of saying "anyway" when he seems to lose his train of thought, and that it has been happening more often lately. Or, if it isn't happening more often, it has become more magnified because we are listening more closely and carefully. Either way, at this moment where optics seem to matter more than substance, it is an unwelcome tell that something is not quite right, and it is what people will continue to hear and talk about after the fact. I'm not advocating for him to stay or leave the ticket, as I don't think I have enough detailed information to make that call, and my opinion doesn't matter to those with power of influence. But it would be naive to think that others are not picking up on this and factoring it into their decision on how to vote. The DNC and Team Biden need to plan accordingly, and sooner rather than later. It matters.
For a medical perspective listen to the last episode (11?) of Shrinking Trump podcast and fast forward to the guest who is an expert on stuttering. I came away with the idea that anyway is biden's stutter corrective phrase. Stuttering is not related to cognitive ability, but I'm not sure that fact is relevant for undecided voters who have to guess what he is trying to convey.
I have moved from defender to skeptic to converted in terms of the need for Biden to step down. He is simply not able to argue the case. He is losing the confidence of people like me. How can be possibly gain people on the fence?
If it is only in his refusal to step down that he can exhibit strength and vigor, that is not enough
He has lost the confidence of some people because evety article I read about is questioning his ability. But Trump spouts nonsense and lies for 20 min and you will not hear one media outlet complain about his cognitive ability. He was a horrible president. He will turn the country fascist. There will be no more honest elections again. Biden has 50 years of experience and had one of the best first terms in history. But omg! he stutters. He looks old. He is not a good speaker. Did the Bulwark folks complain about George W, talking about bad speakers?
I totally agree and think it sucks. But it's different. This has gone beyond speech. I haven't been reading the articles, because I've felt they haven't been adding anything to the conversation. I got here because I'm afraid we are seeing the best we're going to see, and believe we will see things like the debate again.
I also got here because fair or not, this topic simply will no go away unless he opts not to run, and unless it goes away there won't be any oxygen to campaign *against* the SOB on the other side
I still hope Biden will come around, It's very hard for anyone to give up on power. I'm hoping he is going through a deliberative process of his own behind the scenes and at some point will realize there is no path forward if he's lost the confidence of the vast majority of the electorate.
You took yourself through a thinking process. You deliberated. Isn't that what our elected representatives do? Our Constitution is designed for that. And when we citizens do so, we strengthen our democracy. Props to you!
Me, too, Tupper. Joe has to come to grips with letting the past go and the future come. A slogan, depending upon the VP pick assuming Harris is the top nominee, could be "Democratic Diversity versus Republican Repression."
That would incorporate race, gender, possibly even sexual orientation, versus white, old-fashioned male. The age factor would be obvious as CFT (Convicted Felon Trump) becomes the old man in the race, stumbling, mumbling, rambling and not being able to follow a train of thought.
If he does not chicken out of the already scheduled debate, it should be clear who has the brains and quickness for the job. If he tries to back out, "Look who's afraid of a woman" chants would haunt him, the macho male, into November.
No wonder Democrats always lose. We have no politicians with any guts. If Trump babbles on stage, which he has done, they praise him. Sleeps and farts in court and all the Rs praise him. He could get on stage and moon everyone and the Republucans would praise him because they are smart enough to know that the rotund baby huey is their best chance. Democrats are stupid and insecure. Remember George W. President during 9/11. Worst attack on the US and the Republicans praised him. Why because he gave a rambling speech and started the Iraq War. Biden gives a bad speech and he gets kicked to the curb.
Dems have been on winning streak since the loss in 2016. From the moment the debate ended I (not just me) advised calmness and waiting for more information. Instead we got hysteria and then stubborn post hoc rationalization of that hysteria. That hysteria may have irreparably damaged Biden's chances, necessitating the weaker plan B.
I assume your comment is in jest: Experience as what? Prosecutor? AG of the most populous state? Cultivating international relations throughout the world as the VP (I said "cultivating" not "capping")? Committing 34 Felonies? Sexual harassment/assault? Being held in contempt of court ten times in one trial?
Her experience in CA and I voted for her for Senate, does not compare with Trump's 4 years as President and 4 years as head of the Party. Yes, he is a convicted felon and yet his party would never say a bad thing about him and they praise him constantly. Biden has a great four years to be constantly talked about, but instead all the Ds and the media talk about is he is not a good speaker. Neither is Trump, and yet you never hear the Rs mention it or the media.
I understand your point about amount of time and seriousness of the office, but when did CFT ever act Presidential? When did he ever show he knew what it meant, other than a get-out-of-jail-free card to loot the Federal Treasury by only staying at properties he owned so that the required entourage's bills went directly in to his coffers?
What's CFT? What does it matter what Trump thinks. His party is behind him 100%. NYT endorses him. He has Fox News doing all his campaign work. And every Republican loves him. He can't do anything to make Rs not vote for him.
Exactly. Yet the Speaker sat behind him in court with other pols. They support him blindly no matter what. That makes voters want to vote for him. If the Democratic political machine isn't supporting Biden, why should voters?
Exactly, which is why it is way past time to change horses. The fact that the former GOP, now POT (Party of...) has no leaders, only followers, does not mean those who have not drunk the Kool-Aid should emulate them.
I'm with you in that she is the only realistic alternate for Biden at this point, and if that turns out to be the ultimate decision they make, the sniping HAS to then end. Period. Or all definitely will be lost.
CFT is a misogynist and a racist (he was not referring to Scandinavia when he talked about "shithole countries"), so a black woman would be his worst nightmare and the Ds biggest draw. She also is clearly his intellectual superior (OK, so is a hot dog), and it would show. She has also been Joe's surrogate on the overseas world stage for the past year or two getting to know those whose word overseas matters. The sniping will continue, but it will be from the Rs.
I agree. It's actually hard to understand his words now. He speaks fast and runs them together. And then he says things like "battle box" instead of ballot box, twice, while reading from the teleprompter. He's not selling himself, and he's up against the base conmen-salesmen out there.
You are correct he isn’t “selling” himself. But I continue to struggle with look what the republicans are hugging to their chest? A horrible, horrible man who wants to take all our freedoms and rights… even voting… there is no doubt if he wins he will stay - voters be damned. And we, democrats, can’t even “hug” an older man who is showing his age- one always ages in the WH and we all know he will do everything he can, he doesn’t fold to trump and the people with him will do the heavy lifting for our democracy. So, anyway I just struggle. There should be a Democrat or democrats who can guide us. We must win regardless… because we know the SC will take any case of state “fraud” or any suggestion of election mishandling or what about that old rule that is there are discrepancies the vote goes to one per state? I know I am doomsday… but…😳
Look, I'm a big Biden fan. But looking at this post-debate performances objectively, he's not cutting it, whether it's the Sunday oval office or Lester Holt. It's barely a C - not much energy and the verbal stumbles continue. Yes, he can give a energized rally speech off a teleprompter, but he did plenty of those pre-debate (remember STOU) and the polls barely budged. He's behind and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that rally speeches will turn it around. Yes, he might be able to do the job, but that's not the question. Can he turn the "too old" perception around? That's it. And the cement is hardening.
Agree fully. I sponsor a private political discussion group of friends on FB, totaling around 50 and ranging from center-right to center-left, with a few more leftward folk included. Two members are firmly in the "only Biden" camp. Their reasoning is largely grounded in the record of his administration, also noting that he beat Trump before. They don't look at the situation through the eyes of an undecided voter . They may think that diligent analysis of policy differences will bring said voters to Biden. But it's not the diligent voter that will decide the election, it's the casual one who might not vote but decides to late in the campaign. And they just don't seem to get the attractiveness of the "Trump show", compared to the kind and well-meaning old man. This blindness will install the oligarchy of the far right.
The undecided will consider what they hear about Biden. If they hear about the great past 4 years and all of his experience they will vote for him. if they hear whiney indecisive voices from Democrats they won't. It's as simple as that.
Well said, Mark. Good point about his March SOTU - very well performed, and the polls didn't budge.
I was wondering if I was the only one who was hearing Joe's habit of saying "anyway" when he seems to lose his train of thought, and that it has been happening more often lately. Or, if it isn't happening more often, it has become more magnified because we are listening more closely and carefully. Either way, at this moment where optics seem to matter more than substance, it is an unwelcome tell that something is not quite right, and it is what people will continue to hear and talk about after the fact. I'm not advocating for him to stay or leave the ticket, as I don't think I have enough detailed information to make that call, and my opinion doesn't matter to those with power of influence. But it would be naive to think that others are not picking up on this and factoring it into their decision on how to vote. The DNC and Team Biden need to plan accordingly, and sooner rather than later. It matters.
For a medical perspective listen to the last episode (11?) of Shrinking Trump podcast and fast forward to the guest who is an expert on stuttering. I came away with the idea that anyway is biden's stutter corrective phrase. Stuttering is not related to cognitive ability, but I'm not sure that fact is relevant for undecided voters who have to guess what he is trying to convey.
"Anyway" has become a drinking game.
I have moved from defender to skeptic to converted in terms of the need for Biden to step down. He is simply not able to argue the case. He is losing the confidence of people like me. How can be possibly gain people on the fence?
If it is only in his refusal to step down that he can exhibit strength and vigor, that is not enough
He has lost the confidence of some people because evety article I read about is questioning his ability. But Trump spouts nonsense and lies for 20 min and you will not hear one media outlet complain about his cognitive ability. He was a horrible president. He will turn the country fascist. There will be no more honest elections again. Biden has 50 years of experience and had one of the best first terms in history. But omg! he stutters. He looks old. He is not a good speaker. Did the Bulwark folks complain about George W, talking about bad speakers?
I totally agree and think it sucks. But it's different. This has gone beyond speech. I haven't been reading the articles, because I've felt they haven't been adding anything to the conversation. I got here because I'm afraid we are seeing the best we're going to see, and believe we will see things like the debate again.
I also got here because fair or not, this topic simply will no go away unless he opts not to run, and unless it goes away there won't be any oxygen to campaign *against* the SOB on the other side
It won't go away because the Relublican echo chamber is making sure it won't go away. And weak Democrats are letting them.
I still hope Biden will come around, It's very hard for anyone to give up on power. I'm hoping he is going through a deliberative process of his own behind the scenes and at some point will realize there is no path forward if he's lost the confidence of the vast majority of the electorate.
You took yourself through a thinking process. You deliberated. Isn't that what our elected representatives do? Our Constitution is designed for that. And when we citizens do so, we strengthen our democracy. Props to you!
Me, too, Tupper. Joe has to come to grips with letting the past go and the future come. A slogan, depending upon the VP pick assuming Harris is the top nominee, could be "Democratic Diversity versus Republican Repression."
That would incorporate race, gender, possibly even sexual orientation, versus white, old-fashioned male. The age factor would be obvious as CFT (Convicted Felon Trump) becomes the old man in the race, stumbling, mumbling, rambling and not being able to follow a train of thought.
If he does not chicken out of the already scheduled debate, it should be clear who has the brains and quickness for the job. If he tries to back out, "Look who's afraid of a woman" chants would haunt him, the macho male, into November.
How can Harris be the top nominee if she has less experience than Trump? This is not a beauty contest.
Problem is that it is a beauty contest or a third grade class president contest because so many people have not grown up.
No wonder Democrats always lose. We have no politicians with any guts. If Trump babbles on stage, which he has done, they praise him. Sleeps and farts in court and all the Rs praise him. He could get on stage and moon everyone and the Republucans would praise him because they are smart enough to know that the rotund baby huey is their best chance. Democrats are stupid and insecure. Remember George W. President during 9/11. Worst attack on the US and the Republicans praised him. Why because he gave a rambling speech and started the Iraq War. Biden gives a bad speech and he gets kicked to the curb.
Dems have been on winning streak since the loss in 2016. From the moment the debate ended I (not just me) advised calmness and waiting for more information. Instead we got hysteria and then stubborn post hoc rationalization of that hysteria. That hysteria may have irreparably damaged Biden's chances, necessitating the weaker plan B.
I agree, and I bet $100 that it was started by Republicans. And the Democrats became scared.
I assume your comment is in jest: Experience as what? Prosecutor? AG of the most populous state? Cultivating international relations throughout the world as the VP (I said "cultivating" not "capping")? Committing 34 Felonies? Sexual harassment/assault? Being held in contempt of court ten times in one trial?
Her experience in CA and I voted for her for Senate, does not compare with Trump's 4 years as President and 4 years as head of the Party. Yes, he is a convicted felon and yet his party would never say a bad thing about him and they praise him constantly. Biden has a great four years to be constantly talked about, but instead all the Ds and the media talk about is he is not a good speaker. Neither is Trump, and yet you never hear the Rs mention it or the media.
I understand your point about amount of time and seriousness of the office, but when did CFT ever act Presidential? When did he ever show he knew what it meant, other than a get-out-of-jail-free card to loot the Federal Treasury by only staying at properties he owned so that the required entourage's bills went directly in to his coffers?
What's CFT? What does it matter what Trump thinks. His party is behind him 100%. NYT endorses him. He has Fox News doing all his campaign work. And every Republican loves him. He can't do anything to make Rs not vote for him.
Convicted Felon Trump
Ah. I like it. Can I use it, pls?
Most certainly, especially since it is not original with me but from another, faster Bulwark reader whose permission I obtained.
Exactly. Yet the Speaker sat behind him in court with other pols. They support him blindly no matter what. That makes voters want to vote for him. If the Democratic political machine isn't supporting Biden, why should voters?
Exactly, which is why it is way past time to change horses. The fact that the former GOP, now POT (Party of...) has no leaders, only followers, does not mean those who have not drunk the Kool-Aid should emulate them.
I'm with you in that she is the only realistic alternate for Biden at this point, and if that turns out to be the ultimate decision they make, the sniping HAS to then end. Period. Or all definitely will be lost.
CFT is a misogynist and a racist (he was not referring to Scandinavia when he talked about "shithole countries"), so a black woman would be his worst nightmare and the Ds biggest draw. She also is clearly his intellectual superior (OK, so is a hot dog), and it would show. She has also been Joe's surrogate on the overseas world stage for the past year or two getting to know those whose word overseas matters. The sniping will continue, but it will be from the Rs.
I agree. It's actually hard to understand his words now. He speaks fast and runs them together. And then he says things like "battle box" instead of ballot box, twice, while reading from the teleprompter. He's not selling himself, and he's up against the base conmen-salesmen out there.
You are correct he isn’t “selling” himself. But I continue to struggle with look what the republicans are hugging to their chest? A horrible, horrible man who wants to take all our freedoms and rights… even voting… there is no doubt if he wins he will stay - voters be damned. And we, democrats, can’t even “hug” an older man who is showing his age- one always ages in the WH and we all know he will do everything he can, he doesn’t fold to trump and the people with him will do the heavy lifting for our democracy. So, anyway I just struggle. There should be a Democrat or democrats who can guide us. We must win regardless… because we know the SC will take any case of state “fraud” or any suggestion of election mishandling or what about that old rule that is there are discrepancies the vote goes to one per state? I know I am doomsday… but…😳