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MAP's avatar

But we do have control and so many of these posts just signal—and encourage—capitulation. For God’s sake we have agency. We can get out there and talk to people about what lies ahead if the “law and order party”—which just means we won’t hesitate to crack the skulls of our enemies—led by a convicted criminal, takes power.

We get it you don’t like Biden and want him gone! God knows all you republicans and former republicans know how to spin the positive—you stayed silent about the fools and miscreants in your (former) party for years. Newt? Hastert? Rush? There are just too many to name. Come on. Regardless of who the Dem nominee is you are either on board to stop the Christian nationalist authoritarians from taking over or you aren’t. It’s as simple as that.

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rlritt's avatar

Thank you! That really is point. Dissing Biden, who is the only Democrat with both experience and money, or wishing on a star that some unicorn is going show up and beat Trump.

The Republicans are smarter and realize Trump is horrible person but they have a payed off media that keeps telling us he is really a prince and we will buy it. On other words, they don't shit where they eat.

I'm sure the Republicans are very grateful for your help.

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Bruce's science says's avatar

We can quote the Stones "you can't always get what you want, but if you try some times you can get what you need" let's stop the Biden bashing

,as it's killing us. That's why the poles are tanking. Why should voters want Biden when his own party does nothing but trash him. GET A CLUE?!

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Deutschmeister's avatar

I don't like Joe Biden? Where on Earth do you get that from? I've never said such a thing. Because it isn't true. Simple as that. Interpretation otherwise is mistaken. And as I've said multiple times in these pages, even today (see below), I have no position on Joe staying or going. I am leaving that to people better informed than I am and hoping that they get it right.

I've made clear over time that I will vote Democratic in this election, no matter who is atop the ticket, because the GOP as now constituted is a non-starter. I certainly don't expect that everyone here memorizes my many verbose posts. But regular readers surely know that much by now.

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Kevin P's avatar

Our "loyalty" or lack of it towards Joe Biden matters not one whit.

Nearly everyone in these forums, pro-Joe vs Joe must go, will vote for Joe if he leads the Democrat ticket.. and that also won't matter one whit.

Our shared problem is the supposedly undecided 5-8% of the American electorate who's votes will decide this election.

Joe Biden IS BEHIND, he doesn't have his former "mojo", and he isn't selling the goods to THOSE folks.

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Terry Hilldale's avatar

If 2016 is any guide it was only one half of one percent that decided the election. But whatever the percentage of marginal voters, all this public panic is only driving them away and possibly to Trump. It may already be too late and the self -fulfilling prophecy is all but fulfilled. For that reason Biden may have to step down and let Harris and her VP pick try to attract them (back) even though Biden is cognitively fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQo23H4pP8o

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MAP's avatar

I should have been clearer. Not you specifically. Many of the Bulwark folk—you want names? Kristol for one; JVL likes Joe but has gone very dark—and so many of the commenters here. I do like Joe and think many of the takes are overblown. Joe is handling the presidency right now and if something happens in six months or a year or never, we have a solid veep (who people say they are behind) and she can step up. We have to stop the doomsday navel gazing and get our eyes back on the prize—and talk about the damn stakes every day through 11/5.

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rlritt's avatar

I'm with you 100%.

Take a look at the Republicans who back Trump. Trump could piss on the Bible to a million fawning voters and the NYT, Fox News would spin it. The Republican voters wouldn't say a word against him. I wish the anti Trump group would show a fraction of that loyalty.

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Double-A's avatar

Huge difference between Joe as current and recent president (few here would not like all that he has been able to achieve in the last 3.5 years) vs. Joe as the sensible side's nominee for president from Jan 2025 onward for 4 years. Given age, recent performance (uneven at best, very concerning on 6/27), swing-state polling, etc, we have to take a pragmatic approach precisely because we are not a cult or personality like the other side is.

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rlritt's avatar

One God Damn bad night and everyone's panties are in a bunch!

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MAP's avatar

Stop the fantasy football BS. This isn’t the West Wing. Joe is still pretty damn effective for an old guy even if you think he is “senile.” Any Dem who steps in—and tell me who is gonna do it? Adam Schiff?—will start out with a party in shambles, no campaign infrastructure, little voter recognition (who did they pick, hun? Never heard of em), no war chest, and NO TIME. And just wait until the media get through with their “vetting.” And the potential for red state lawsuits and ballot access.

Yep, that a a sure path to victory because anybody is better than Biden, right?

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