Jim Clyburn’s annual fish fry remains a pilgrimage site for ambitious Democrats. Whether its political world survives the redistricting frenzy is an open question.
I'm a Jersey transplant to Ga, and a white woman, and I was not in any shocked that white men (yes, I know there are women Republicans, too, but it's still mostly white men) took voting power away from black communities with such alacrity. The Confederacy has been festering down here for a long, LONG time.
Eugene Daniels had a good interview with Mr. Clyburn this weekend over at MSNOW. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQe7GWD34Q) He (Clyburn talked about his decision to run again and tied it to other people (he claimed) telling him they'd lose the seat if he wasn't the candidate. I didn't take that as pride so much as feeling like an institution.
At the same time, the way he talked about political success and how he downplayed the necessity to control the news cycle struck me as being out of touch. He said success meant head*way* not head*lines. I grew up in SC & NC, the man is a well-respected institution and to my mind a good man and a good public servant, but he also came off as out of touch with what it took to hold on to power these days. He still seemed quite sharp, just out of touch with the way things are.
I do wish we had a way for older politicians to get involved. Some of them still have some life in them! And most have the wisdom and history to speak to what matters to a lot of people. I enjoyed hearing Clyburn talk in the video about why it mattered that SC was the first primary in the south, both practically and also showing respect for the state's high participation from Afr-Am voters in particular. What he said seemed true. I just don't think you need to be an actual Congressman to do it. Presidents serve their terms and still get to have an impact; it's a shame that so many congressmen can't see a way to step back from actual elected office without that meaning it's the end of their ability to make a difference.
I am from the detroit area and we had a person in the 13th congressional district who was essentially on life support and they kept reelecting him that man was John Conyers and because he did not step down he was forced from office as with our last redistricting we had a seat removed I am in this redrawn district. I think South Carolina Figured out that having him in that safe seat means they can keep the majority they enjoy as when these opportunity majority Minority districts where created that gave one democratic solid vote but gave the GOP 2 additional votes and that is why the legislatures in the south voted overwhelmingly for these districts as they kept seats that used to be competitive with blue dog democrats occasionally winning with this more leftist lean districts being made they got 2 solidily red districts to 1 solidly blue district which is why we lost control of the house so often.
Thank you for tramping around the South to see and hear what people are doing as we head to the midterms. Go Bulwark Team! I was born in Iowa many years ago, and knew nothing of Jim Crow until I enlisted in the Air Force during the Korean War. I had five tours in the South and I've lived nearly all my life there. I was in Mississippi and Alabama during the Civil Rights struggles and knew Black people were fighting against just about everybody else. I've seen change as new people have moved in, but deep in the DNA of the South is the tribal need to keep the Black people down. So, I wasn't surprised by how quickly representation was taken from them. How many decades will it take to restore what they've lost?
Pope Leo's 'Magnificent Humanity' contrasts virtual characters to humans, but sidesteps man's inhumanity to man. I accept that racism/tribalism is inherent in our nature, and won't fundamentally change in my lifetime. Thanks again,
Oh cmon. Americans claim they want change after 30+ years of status quo politics. I hear "term limits!" all over social media. Then this? Keep voting for 85 year old corporate establishment candidates folks and we'll go down in flames.
I’ve never been for term limits. I understand the argument but my argument has always been go win the seat.
James Clyburn is the example of a congressman who can be old and still be both effective and iconic. It’s a shame that because of Trump we never got to have the normal hero send off for icons like John Lewis and Elijah Cummings. Hopefully Clyburn will see another Democratic President. He did the hard work to defeat Trump in 2020. He will be instrumental in 2028.
I live in SC. There's a renewed energy happening. Don't count us out so fast- we may just borrow a bunch of that time back in November. Enough to get us on a firmer track towards a more just and progressive future. Way too late, but nonetheless...
I am glad Clyburn will be able to leave office with one last victory. The inevitable gerrymander was merely delayed not stopped. The SC Republicans wisely just let this election slide. We all need to get used to the reality that redistricting will now be an every two year process rather than every 10 years and that ultimately every state will end up zeroing out the representation of the party that doesn't control the 50 state governments.
What this says to me is that both Democrats and Republicans need to get over their Red/Blue State psychosis and start earnestly competing for state legislative bodies and governorships. I also see an opportunity for centrist independents making headway as the polarized insanity of the two party system starts to crumble. Were enough "good faith" independents (not independents in name only) elected to the US Senate (say 6) they could form their own caucus and actually influence whichever party is in the majority. Independent influence in the House could be even greater when it seems that House majorities are going to be tight in the future.
We are actually on the edge of a post-partisan era where individual "brands" can become far more powerful than their party affiliation. I know no MAGA person (and I know many) that would not say that BOTH parties are corrupt and that part of their allegiance to Trump is based on the fact that he will walk over Republicans and Democrats to "get things done." That is Trump's brand.
Don't forget that there were a significant number (11% - 15%) of Obama voters who switched to Trump in 2016 and stayed with Trump in 2020 and 2024. Also remember that in the swing states Trump beat Harris and still rejected MAGA wackadoodles down the ballot. The Trump brand beat the Harris brand.
The reason the Democratic 2024 "autopsy" is so unimportant, aside from the fact that it was never really finished, is that it fails to understand the power of brands in marketing. It isn't just messaging and policies and visions. Obama came into office with a powerful brand.
The fact that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by ONLY 77,000 votes spread across 3 states should have been a warning sign. Her campaign was just fine--- but her brand was wrong. The fact that Biden's victory was possible by ONLY 44,000 votes in 3 states should have triggered 5 alarms.
The problem with running VPs to succeed their President is that they can never distance themselves from their predecessors sufficiently to establish their own brands. If they distance themselves they look disloyal or they look disingenuous. That is why in modern times there has only been 1 VP elected to succeed the President under whom they served. Nixon and Biden were elected some years after they served as VP. Harris was handicapped by Biden no matter how much distance she could ethically (truthfully) put between them.
So look for candidates with brands or brand potential... but be careful because in doing so they might turn out to be a Fetterman or a Platner. However Democrats COULD save Platner if they figure out that having Susan Collins is worse for Maine and the rest of the country than having a flawed human being with a troubled online history in the Senate.
I disagree. We should not just accept the gerrymander wars as reality. We need to start working towards a better democracy with fairer and more equal representation across the board. We should not just succumb to Trump-style marketing or social media style branding just because our system has become corrupted. We need to do the opposite and reject all of this nonsense. Sincerely work towards a more civic minded government and stop with all the anti-democratic noise.
Well, obviously everyone with any rational sense would reject the things you point out.
BUT, sadly, the majority of American voters, especially most of those under 40, have surrendered themselves heart and soul over to the ANTISOCIAL media influencer/follower culture. Unless there is a collapse of the antisocial media universe this trend will only get worse as more rational (analog) voters age out. So those who do not adapt to that cultural shift will become extinct.
That said we do have examples of successful branding among Democrats already. Branding does not have to be negative. And if a candidate doesn't establish and defend their own brand their opponents will do the branding for them.
We are all at the mercy of content creators, influencers, podcasters, foreign bot farms, news aggregators, etc. and there is no way to "work our way to something better" because there is too much money to be made and none of it can be touched by old fashioned 20th century campaign finance reform.
Now with AI, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle.
Maybe it's more about how people feel and how branding ties into those feelings. American have had the luxury of of attacking politics and politicians (without understanding how that approach is actually a scam on them) because we are such a rich country without understanding they need politics and politicians ruled by better laws governing campaign finance.
Despite the desegregation efforts in the 50s and all the the federal legislation of the 1960s, the federal courts were only thing holding back the revenge of most white Southerners (including Texas). They never changed and they never will. Governor Bilbo and most of today's white evangelicals were/are fanatics and representatives of an evil place and evil intent. Trump is their "God(Devil)-send." How long it goes on is anyone's guess.
Great piece Lauren! In a podcast a week or two ago, JVL and Sarah were discussing Jim Clyburn's seat. One of the arguments for keeping Clyburn in the house is that, no matter who is in the White House, Jim Clyburn can deliver for South Carolina. JVL suggested that if/when Dem's take power, they should punish red states by withholding federal funding and /or moving investment from red states. I don't know how serious JVL is, but now that Clyburn's seat wasn't gerrymandered out, I'd love for JVL to comment on this again.
@JVL - if you're reading this - there are a lot of reasons South Carolina did not gerrymander Clyburn's seat out of existence. But now that they kept him, can you revisit the question of Democrats investing in red states if/when they take power? We disagree on this. I think Dems should invest federal dollars equitably and efficiently, regardless of a state or district's partisan leaning. I really hate any president withholding or redirecting federal spending as political retribution (and I think Sarah agrees). Would love to hear you two discuss this on another secret show.
The Red State/Blue State dichotomy is an illusion. Some facts to consider:
1) Most states are split pretty evenly as far as how people vote across the board. The state where I live is 50/50, but our gerrymandering is so bad it has led to our state legislature being controlled completely by one party by an insanely large margin. For years!
2) There are more people registered independent than for either makor party right now in The USA
3) In every election, many people don't vote and some can't for various reasons, but they still live in states. We don't know whether they would be classified as leaning "red" or "blue," but what does that even matter when we are talking about infrastructure funding and social services? Isn't the premise of responsible governance to ensure that all people are treated equally and fairly?
4) Retributive funding practices are just wrong on every level you can imagine. In a democratic nation of states in which every population center is a mixed bag, it makes no sense at all, especially since it has been proven that poor messaging practices or false messaging always has the power to override the facts on the ground (see: Biden; see: Trump). Personally, I think it's better to strive for well run, well taken care of places than to quibble about who gets the credit and/or how to "punish" those who you think vote "wrong."
5) The people in every place are always going to be diverse in different ways, but they are all always going to be human with the same needs and support from the federal government. We shouldn't root for our politicians', through horrible practices, to do things that make people's lives worse out of anger and frustration with the various levels of ignorance we perceive among them. That will only maintain, prolong, and sustain the ignorance, which arguably is at least part of what got us here.
We really need to address the reconfiguration of our public education funding system that got re-jiggered under Reagan. We have a long row to hoe.
To be clear - I am not trying to taunt you JVL. You and Sarah really hash this stuff out in a thoughtful way. Even when I disagree with you, I like to hear your thoughts. I'd love to hear both of you dig into this.
Kahanna better read what happened to FDR's Supreme Court packing attempts. Beshear seems like a pragmatic candidate who could capture the South. Remember these bumper stickers which were prevalent in the South for many years: FORGET? HELL1 and Get your Heart in Dixie or your ASS out
I'm a Jersey transplant to Ga, and a white woman, and I was not in any shocked that white men (yes, I know there are women Republicans, too, but it's still mostly white men) took voting power away from black communities with such alacrity. The Confederacy has been festering down here for a long, LONG time.
Eugene Daniels had a good interview with Mr. Clyburn this weekend over at MSNOW. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reQe7GWD34Q) He (Clyburn talked about his decision to run again and tied it to other people (he claimed) telling him they'd lose the seat if he wasn't the candidate. I didn't take that as pride so much as feeling like an institution.
At the same time, the way he talked about political success and how he downplayed the necessity to control the news cycle struck me as being out of touch. He said success meant head*way* not head*lines. I grew up in SC & NC, the man is a well-respected institution and to my mind a good man and a good public servant, but he also came off as out of touch with what it took to hold on to power these days. He still seemed quite sharp, just out of touch with the way things are.
I do wish we had a way for older politicians to get involved. Some of them still have some life in them! And most have the wisdom and history to speak to what matters to a lot of people. I enjoyed hearing Clyburn talk in the video about why it mattered that SC was the first primary in the south, both practically and also showing respect for the state's high participation from Afr-Am voters in particular. What he said seemed true. I just don't think you need to be an actual Congressman to do it. Presidents serve their terms and still get to have an impact; it's a shame that so many congressmen can't see a way to step back from actual elected office without that meaning it's the end of their ability to make a difference.
I am from the detroit area and we had a person in the 13th congressional district who was essentially on life support and they kept reelecting him that man was John Conyers and because he did not step down he was forced from office as with our last redistricting we had a seat removed I am in this redrawn district. I think South Carolina Figured out that having him in that safe seat means they can keep the majority they enjoy as when these opportunity majority Minority districts where created that gave one democratic solid vote but gave the GOP 2 additional votes and that is why the legislatures in the south voted overwhelmingly for these districts as they kept seats that used to be competitive with blue dog democrats occasionally winning with this more leftist lean districts being made they got 2 solidily red districts to 1 solidly blue district which is why we lost control of the house so often.
Lauren,
Thank you for tramping around the South to see and hear what people are doing as we head to the midterms. Go Bulwark Team! I was born in Iowa many years ago, and knew nothing of Jim Crow until I enlisted in the Air Force during the Korean War. I had five tours in the South and I've lived nearly all my life there. I was in Mississippi and Alabama during the Civil Rights struggles and knew Black people were fighting against just about everybody else. I've seen change as new people have moved in, but deep in the DNA of the South is the tribal need to keep the Black people down. So, I wasn't surprised by how quickly representation was taken from them. How many decades will it take to restore what they've lost?
Pope Leo's 'Magnificent Humanity' contrasts virtual characters to humans, but sidesteps man's inhumanity to man. I accept that racism/tribalism is inherent in our nature, and won't fundamentally change in my lifetime. Thanks again,
Jerome
Oh cmon. Americans claim they want change after 30+ years of status quo politics. I hear "term limits!" all over social media. Then this? Keep voting for 85 year old corporate establishment candidates folks and we'll go down in flames.
I’ve never been for term limits. I understand the argument but my argument has always been go win the seat.
James Clyburn is the example of a congressman who can be old and still be both effective and iconic. It’s a shame that because of Trump we never got to have the normal hero send off for icons like John Lewis and Elijah Cummings. Hopefully Clyburn will see another Democratic President. He did the hard work to defeat Trump in 2020. He will be instrumental in 2028.
I live in SC. There's a renewed energy happening. Don't count us out so fast- we may just borrow a bunch of that time back in November. Enough to get us on a firmer track towards a more just and progressive future. Way too late, but nonetheless...
Lauren Egan standing up for democracy thanks
I am glad Clyburn will be able to leave office with one last victory. The inevitable gerrymander was merely delayed not stopped. The SC Republicans wisely just let this election slide. We all need to get used to the reality that redistricting will now be an every two year process rather than every 10 years and that ultimately every state will end up zeroing out the representation of the party that doesn't control the 50 state governments.
What this says to me is that both Democrats and Republicans need to get over their Red/Blue State psychosis and start earnestly competing for state legislative bodies and governorships. I also see an opportunity for centrist independents making headway as the polarized insanity of the two party system starts to crumble. Were enough "good faith" independents (not independents in name only) elected to the US Senate (say 6) they could form their own caucus and actually influence whichever party is in the majority. Independent influence in the House could be even greater when it seems that House majorities are going to be tight in the future.
We are actually on the edge of a post-partisan era where individual "brands" can become far more powerful than their party affiliation. I know no MAGA person (and I know many) that would not say that BOTH parties are corrupt and that part of their allegiance to Trump is based on the fact that he will walk over Republicans and Democrats to "get things done." That is Trump's brand.
Don't forget that there were a significant number (11% - 15%) of Obama voters who switched to Trump in 2016 and stayed with Trump in 2020 and 2024. Also remember that in the swing states Trump beat Harris and still rejected MAGA wackadoodles down the ballot. The Trump brand beat the Harris brand.
The reason the Democratic 2024 "autopsy" is so unimportant, aside from the fact that it was never really finished, is that it fails to understand the power of brands in marketing. It isn't just messaging and policies and visions. Obama came into office with a powerful brand.
The fact that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by ONLY 77,000 votes spread across 3 states should have been a warning sign. Her campaign was just fine--- but her brand was wrong. The fact that Biden's victory was possible by ONLY 44,000 votes in 3 states should have triggered 5 alarms.
The problem with running VPs to succeed their President is that they can never distance themselves from their predecessors sufficiently to establish their own brands. If they distance themselves they look disloyal or they look disingenuous. That is why in modern times there has only been 1 VP elected to succeed the President under whom they served. Nixon and Biden were elected some years after they served as VP. Harris was handicapped by Biden no matter how much distance she could ethically (truthfully) put between them.
So look for candidates with brands or brand potential... but be careful because in doing so they might turn out to be a Fetterman or a Platner. However Democrats COULD save Platner if they figure out that having Susan Collins is worse for Maine and the rest of the country than having a flawed human being with a troubled online history in the Senate.
I disagree. We should not just accept the gerrymander wars as reality. We need to start working towards a better democracy with fairer and more equal representation across the board. We should not just succumb to Trump-style marketing or social media style branding just because our system has become corrupted. We need to do the opposite and reject all of this nonsense. Sincerely work towards a more civic minded government and stop with all the anti-democratic noise.
Well, obviously everyone with any rational sense would reject the things you point out.
BUT, sadly, the majority of American voters, especially most of those under 40, have surrendered themselves heart and soul over to the ANTISOCIAL media influencer/follower culture. Unless there is a collapse of the antisocial media universe this trend will only get worse as more rational (analog) voters age out. So those who do not adapt to that cultural shift will become extinct.
That said we do have examples of successful branding among Democrats already. Branding does not have to be negative. And if a candidate doesn't establish and defend their own brand their opponents will do the branding for them.
We are all at the mercy of content creators, influencers, podcasters, foreign bot farms, news aggregators, etc. and there is no way to "work our way to something better" because there is too much money to be made and none of it can be touched by old fashioned 20th century campaign finance reform.
Now with AI, the genie cannot be put back in the bottle.
Maybe it's more about how people feel and how branding ties into those feelings. American have had the luxury of of attacking politics and politicians (without understanding how that approach is actually a scam on them) because we are such a rich country without understanding they need politics and politicians ruled by better laws governing campaign finance.
Beautiful writing. Your coverage of the fish fry brings to life the pathos of puny Democratic “wins” these days.
Clyburn’s backward looking book doesn’t sound like it uses history to fuel a better future but to glorify the past. That’s a shame.
Despite the desegregation efforts in the 50s and all the the federal legislation of the 1960s, the federal courts were only thing holding back the revenge of most white Southerners (including Texas). They never changed and they never will. Governor Bilbo and most of today's white evangelicals were/are fanatics and representatives of an evil place and evil intent. Trump is their "God(Devil)-send." How long it goes on is anyone's guess.
I wonder how many of these voters that love Clyburn would also say career politicians suck and that there should be an age cap for politicians?
Great reporting. This kind of event represents much of what got us here—a ritual frozen in time. Clyburn just can’t move on.
And remember, just a few weeks ago, Clyburn suggested his daughter should succeed him. Tells you a lot.
Yeah for now the confederacy has prevailed , Roger Taney would be thrilled with little johnny Roberts and his 5 stooges .
Great piece Lauren! In a podcast a week or two ago, JVL and Sarah were discussing Jim Clyburn's seat. One of the arguments for keeping Clyburn in the house is that, no matter who is in the White House, Jim Clyburn can deliver for South Carolina. JVL suggested that if/when Dem's take power, they should punish red states by withholding federal funding and /or moving investment from red states. I don't know how serious JVL is, but now that Clyburn's seat wasn't gerrymandered out, I'd love for JVL to comment on this again.
@JVL - if you're reading this - there are a lot of reasons South Carolina did not gerrymander Clyburn's seat out of existence. But now that they kept him, can you revisit the question of Democrats investing in red states if/when they take power? We disagree on this. I think Dems should invest federal dollars equitably and efficiently, regardless of a state or district's partisan leaning. I really hate any president withholding or redirecting federal spending as political retribution (and I think Sarah agrees). Would love to hear you two discuss this on another secret show.
The Red State/Blue State dichotomy is an illusion. Some facts to consider:
1) Most states are split pretty evenly as far as how people vote across the board. The state where I live is 50/50, but our gerrymandering is so bad it has led to our state legislature being controlled completely by one party by an insanely large margin. For years!
2) There are more people registered independent than for either makor party right now in The USA
3) In every election, many people don't vote and some can't for various reasons, but they still live in states. We don't know whether they would be classified as leaning "red" or "blue," but what does that even matter when we are talking about infrastructure funding and social services? Isn't the premise of responsible governance to ensure that all people are treated equally and fairly?
4) Retributive funding practices are just wrong on every level you can imagine. In a democratic nation of states in which every population center is a mixed bag, it makes no sense at all, especially since it has been proven that poor messaging practices or false messaging always has the power to override the facts on the ground (see: Biden; see: Trump). Personally, I think it's better to strive for well run, well taken care of places than to quibble about who gets the credit and/or how to "punish" those who you think vote "wrong."
5) The people in every place are always going to be diverse in different ways, but they are all always going to be human with the same needs and support from the federal government. We shouldn't root for our politicians', through horrible practices, to do things that make people's lives worse out of anger and frustration with the various levels of ignorance we perceive among them. That will only maintain, prolong, and sustain the ignorance, which arguably is at least part of what got us here.
We really need to address the reconfiguration of our public education funding system that got re-jiggered under Reagan. We have a long row to hoe.
To be clear - I am not trying to taunt you JVL. You and Sarah really hash this stuff out in a thoughtful way. Even when I disagree with you, I like to hear your thoughts. I'd love to hear both of you dig into this.
Kahanna better read what happened to FDR's Supreme Court packing attempts. Beshear seems like a pragmatic candidate who could capture the South. Remember these bumper stickers which were prevalent in the South for many years: FORGET? HELL1 and Get your Heart in Dixie or your ASS out
🫱🏼🫲🏾 The Lantern of Partnership: Sharing the Light
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