Came here to say this exact thing — Platner is not accused of breaking laws or professional ethical standards …. This is a total false equivalency piece that is beneath the bulwark
I disagree there are so many vile Republicans that haven’t broken the law. J.D. Vance is unfit to serve on a school board much the less as senator and now Vice-President. Just because he hadn’t broken the law before becoming VP doesn’t mean anything.
Character matters and Platner has a lot of shortcomings. If he was running the primary against Susan Collins for the Republican nomination, I doubt the comments here would be so forgiving of him.
Yep. You can tell when a democrat gets caught sending steamy texts. Then the “both sides” starts coming out. The other side’s led by a friggin’ sadistic child molester for f##k’s sake.
I'm very bulwarkian in background. Grew up in TX, very conservative, was first a never trumper who hoped his defeat would get the GOP back on track, who reluctantly voted for Biden....
People who are still on the right policy wise but CHOOSE to vote for left of center politicians and refuse to further the MAGA cause should be applauded for being able to understand that rule of law/democracy is a higher value than policy.
Some of us have become more liberal in policy preference over time, as we've all pushed back against this crap. But the most important thing is the pushing back, the refusal to continue contributing to the breakdown of our constitutional order.
I am an ex-Republican and I am sick and tired of the partisan sh*t whereby Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans.
I am also old enough to remember when Clinton's entire second term was eaten up by Republicans who were quick enough to declare then that "Character matters," and so he was impeached for lying regarding his relations with Monika Lewinsky.
Considering the loathsome allegations against Trump (which make Clinton's infidelities look like a game of "Spin the Bottle" by comparison), I can see that character certainly doesn't matter to the RINO MAGA Trump party now!
I don’t believe they should but it matters. Democrats had an option to choose a non-controversial governor who stood up to Trump in reality not on a keyboard.
They chose the guy with the Nazi tattoo. Now it’s in for a penny in for a pound. They will have to use this same argument no matter what drops from now till then.
They pissed away a seat with Cal Cunningham in 2020 lost to Thom Tillis because of the late breaking affair news. If they piss away this seat everyone here will blame everybody but Platner.
Do you genuinely think he holds Nazi beliefs? Because I don't think anyone whinging about the tattoo does. It's just pearl clutching and a character attack. The guy was a drunk Marine who pointed to one of a dozen skull and crossbones variations on a tattoo parlor wall. If you're going to claim that picked out of a lineup, you would know that that particular one was problematic, you are lying.
Enough. The tattoo just flat out is not a character issue. Actual Nazi beliefs would be. But Collins is the one who votes to support those.
No I do not believe he has straight out Nazi beliefs. Nor do I believe Trump or Vance do. But they cosplay in an ugly way to extremists.
But my observations show he’s a compulsive liar who acts closer to a proud boy than a normal caring human.
It’s not a character attack to call out a candidate’s flaws. Especially when Democrats had a candidate that is far more electable now than he is.
One tattoo isn’t disqualifying for me. But one tattoo, some horrendous comments about women and their complacency in their own sexual assaults, dumb stereotypes on black voters, sexting scandals outside of marriage (I care least about this one) and then the violence against women coupled with the lying about the Nazi tattoo is far too much for me.
My original complaint against Platner was he will fundraise more in an election but get less votes than a safer candidate like Mills. And then when I found out about his character flaws I’ve seen this before that the tattoo isn’t the end. And then it’s been scandal after scandal and so I keep asking Bulwark commenters how much is too much? I believe that he was physically abusive toward women that’s a red line for me.
But the part that is so angering is that if he drops now the Dems basically bank this seat. Democratic voters abandoned people like Wiener knowing his seat was automatic Democrat. But rather than abandon Platner which would be a big increase in odds for Dems, the commenters here have decided to act very Trumpian and minimize everything against him or pretend a man with his past can’t attack a woman because she’s a Republican involved operative.
I think people are naive if they don’t think that something is being held back to nail him in the general once he can’t drop out. The leak on Swallwell made perfect sense from a Democratic campaign given the timing. This one could line up in the general.
Certain elements of the coalition brought us Fetterman, & now Platner, except it doesn’t look like Platner is even getting over the finish line. A different candidate would’ve been great in both states, wish we could be talking about Senator Connor Lamb from Pennsylvania, and any other Maine democrat.
Odds are plummeting, awful internal pole, just released.
The election markets are not scams. They have been more accurate than anyone wants to give them credit for. They are nothing like crypto.
Back in 2016 the prediction markets were giving Trump 35+% chance to win while polling like the NYT was giving him <1% chance to win. Polling had Harris a slight 50+% to win but prediction markets had her a significant underdog.
Kalshi may be an awful concept when it goes away from traditional outcomes like elections or sports results but it’s likely gonna nail these elections.
Democrats are brilliant at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Nazi tattoo, extra-marital affairs, bad treatment of lovers. I doubt if this would get the GOP into a tizzy over a candidate who might actually win an election.
I became an Independent, not a Democrat, when I quit the GOP; the Democrats' desire to find reasons to lose was one of my motivators.
Makes no difference. Susan Collins is 73. Janet Mills is a +8 favorability with an appeal like Susan Collins. Janet Mills fought ICE better than virtually every Democratic governor. And she represents Maine well.
If you add the fact that Maine is moving more Democratic state wide combined with the tough year Republicans face it gives Mills probably around the 80% chance that Roy Cooper has currently (his us a redder state).
Politically involved people think too much about energy and ideas when in reality it’s not an all star game where the passionate people vote 20+ times.
Janet Mills against Collins is like running a race car where you have the same model that’s been tested and you know you have a better engine and car than the opponent. You race it steady and you win the race. Planner is an untested theory even without the baggage. Now his odds are a coin flip because it is a very MAGAesque coalition you need to cobble together.
No, the real problem is that there’s asymmetric propaganda and a 500 mph headwind for Democrats because of Fox News and all the other stuff around it. That’s the real problem. So if you can flip a republican incumbent who has won five times previously does it really matter who you’re voting for? Because all of the reforms that are going to save our country require Democratic control of the Senate. I just don’t get the way people are thinking. You don’t ask for references when the fire department shows up at your burning house.
This is why our country is being captured by these criminals. You r right! the asymmetry of the moral expectations is astounding, while the Repubs accept all sins and take no accountability, the Dems (and allies) reject on any semblance of moral fragility, even if there is contrition and accountability, the so called purity test. I am frankly tired of this nonsense, if we can’t allow for minor moral fragility, we will only be able to elect Saints, cuz not even the clergy will be spotless, man, not even my grandma was spotless.
No she didn’t. In no way did she have a chance. Look at the polling and focus groups. Mills had no chance. She was polling so bad she suspended her campaign. This is a fantasy that Mills would win. It’s shows you don’t understand where the nation is. I am not talking about left or right. I am talking about working and failing. Mills is a product of an old broken system that has been failing people. Mills is better only in the margin that she would support a return to the old corrupt system. That system created Trump and returning to it will create another Trump or Huey Long. If we continue on that path, someone will cross the Rubicon. Someone will seize power and the consequences will be awful.
I think you’re right, that Mills would lose the election 57 to 43. But I don’t think that Mills is from a broken system that created Trump. I think Trump rose from system that was broken by Fox News. And I think the Democrats have have been slaughtered electorally for 30 years now. The press has us be believing that we live in a world that’s polarized, but in reality, 30% of the population has been brainwashed while the majority of independent voters have shown susceptibility to propaganda. Donald Trump has half the country believing that the Democrats are radical and obsessed with DEI and trans rights when none of that is actually true. Donald Trump would have you believe there’s an existential threat at the border when in fact it’s primarily administrative. Now that the border is sealed everyone’s life is great? It’s just the opposite. This wasn’t really a threat to the United States to begin with. Republicans with the aid of Fox News or maybe Fox News with the eight of Republicans have owned the narrative cycle after cycle after cycle. And they’ve done this with relentless clever pernicious propaganda. Appear like a news channel when in fact, you spew endless untruths and spin the news in a way that informs a narrative beneficial to conservative causes.
So I think you misunderstood what I meant by failed system. The legislature has not been representing or working for the common people for a long time. Multiple studies have shown public opinion has little effect on what is passed or pursued in Congress. Studies of this go back to 2014. Mills is from and apart of that system and that system did lead to Trump. Trumps initial appeal is and was true. The system is rigged, it is not responsive to voters and the swamp is putrid. I understood the appeal of Trump, I also knew Trump was a liar and a con man. That does not change the core truth of his appeal. The propaganda is just how they hide the ball on how much of a swamp monster Trump is. It is how they enable the attacks on the Democrats. It doesn’t change that the system, and Mills was very much apart of it, is broken. Same way Susan Collins is. Broadly speaking the difference between establishment Democrats and Republicans on policy has been narrow since the 1980s. Both prioritize capital over labor, Republicans just go 100% Democrats 80%. Broadly both have been interventionists as well, the words may change but the action and reason are directionally the same. These arch’s are how we got here. Platner represents and departure from that broken system, Mills did not.
> Right now, each party is dealing with a high-profile candidate in a key race who has significant fidelity issues: Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton in Texas and Democratic Senate primary challenger Graham Platner in Maine. I asked lawmakers in both parties if they are second-guessing their respective dudes.
I'm going to stop you right there.
Paxton's issues aren't in any way, shape, or form limited to infidelity. Yes, there is apparently an infidelity angle, but it pales in comparison to the corruption, abuse of power, and bribery that got him impeached. If Paxton's *only* issue was infidelity it wouldn't rate, except insofar as Paxton's claim to moral high ground based on Christian traditional values exposes him as a hypocrite.
There is not a shred of validity to trying to put Platner and Paxton in the same category.
I'm not going to bother reading the rest of this article; I have better things to do with my time. Someone can reply to this with a comment if there's anything of value I miss.
Of course everyone is concerned about character. Of course, in the past, being gay was considered disqualifying for office, so as times change, so do the things that matter.
Platner sexted on his wife. They worked it out through counseling. They even told his campaign about it so they would be forewarned. That is a lot different from someone who cheats on their spouse and never tells them; who allegedly assaults a woman in a hotel room (can't ever remember which rep that was), who allegedly commits the felonies that Paxton did.
Swalwell had to drop out of the governor's race following severe allegations of sexual misconduct and assault made by multiple women, including former associates. That was good that he dropped out and then resigned.
As far as we know - Platner's character flaws do not reach that level AND he worked on it with his wife and revealed it to his campaign team. I'd say those last two things show decent character.
Al Franken shouldn't have had to leave the Senate for the photos he took, tasteless as they were.
Let Maine voters decide. I'm not clutching my pearls over this (even though I have other concerns about Platner, I'll still take him over Collins who has done so much damage to this country with her votes).
I bet the Platner campaign is holding that one in reserve. I think that being expelled from Hotchkiss is probably the best possible thing a candidate in 2026 could have on their resume.
The problem you lay out is what is also behind so many people equating Trump's intentional middle-finger-up withholding of classified documents with Biden's unintentional and quickly/voluntarily remedied taking of classified documents. Platner and Paxton are just as different. Yeah, ok both stepped out on their wives and said intemperate things. Which one is taking responsibility for it? Platner, yes, Paxton, no. Sheesh!
Funny about those photos. A photographer was interviewed soon afterwords and gave a cogent description of one photo being “shopped.’ Said he would have liked to see the negative to be certain. Never heard anything after that, but I did wonder who was being truthful.
Can The Bulwark please stop calling it a “Nazi Tattoo”? It was a skull and crossbones. Even the NYTs calls it “a tattoo that resembles a Nazi symbol”. I guarantee 99.9% of us here would not have known this skull and crossbones was anything other than a skull and crossbones unless someone had told us otherwise.
Yes, I didn't know it was a Nazi symbol. I though it was about pirates, and that seemed a pretty reasonable choice for someone who was in the Marines, grew up in Maine and wanted to seem like a badass.
So it is not EXCLUSIVELY a Nazi symbol. Multipke military and paramilitary have had a death heads totenkopf as its symbol. The German use goes back to Prussia and the Death Head Hussars. The Chetnik’s also used it as a symbol. Also not “good guys”. Never having seen it not sure if it’s the SS totenkopf, which is very similar to the Hussars totenkopf
Totenkopf is the name of the symbol. Deaths heads is a literal translation of toten kopf. The 5th Hussars were the Totenkopf hussars, and go back to the seven years war, aka The French-Indian war. Calling it a totenkopf is in no way evidence of knowing it is a Nazi symbol associated with the SS. Furthermore when did he call it a totenkopf? After he declared and decided that run and was informed about what it was? In and interview explaining his decision? I have not see and interviewed or evidence he was calling it a totenkopf prior to that period. It really feels like you want to make a moral judgement based on little evidence either because it makes you feel morally superior or you don’t like Platner.
He called it "my totenkopf", told his associate he new what it is was and defended military personnel having SS tattoos in his reddit posts.
So yes, he knew. And lied.
Now Pod Save Bros and Platner are attempting muddy the waters that he didn't know about it. Maybe he didn't when he took it but certainly did later on.
The point here is which one is the actual Platnet:
The reddit-version, the scumbag
The campaign-version, who has matured, is remorseful and has learned his lessons.
You are absolutely correct. I am also a Republican and i have my policy preferences and biases. Only there's a note of hostility in your observation that a lot of Dems make much more explicitly hostile. I'm trying to be your ally in reclaiming the rule of law and the constitutional order, so that we can get back to arguing in good faith over ideals and policy. That's my agenda. Full stop. Divisiveness, making people feel unwelcome in the tent, doesn't help advance it.
I'm a Never-Trump Republican and I support this website financially. I want to win elections. Enough with the bullshit that Republicans are trying to remake the Dem party in their own image. May be true for some of the MAGA Putinistas, but not for the broad range of Rs who are tired of Trump, or never supported him even in 2016.
"The hostility you correctly sense is directed at Republicans who want to remake the Democratic Party in their own image. " As a disappointed Democrat who has seen how effective the Republican hate machine has been at demonizing us, facts be damned, I think we had better listen to anti-Trump Republicans have to say. They've worked for the winning side (even when Dems have won, the support has not been 'sticky', always precarious and short-lasting) and can see what we are unable to. They know first-hand how much better Republicans are at the messaging war, and what Democrat's vulnerablities are. In essence, they really want to smarten the Democrats up so they don't grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
I wish people would shut up about the tattoo already. Most young Marines end up with one or two stupid tattoos and they don't always know what they're getting. It took my friend two days before he realized the artist had misspelled Semper Fi.
I wish the dems would heartily endorse Platner. This is a war. We need power to change anything. Collins is bad! I’ve head dems criticizing Platner and it really pisses me off. We have a president who was convicted of sexual assault! Come on dems get it together!
While the Bulwark is at this, why not also bring up Obama’s tan suit?
What is the biggest issue facing America today, for which The Bulwark was founded? The preservation of America’s democracy and Constitutional order.
“ The Bulwark was founded to provide analysis and reporting in defense of America’s liberal democracy.”
What has Platner done that goes against this? AFAIK, nothing.
What has Paxton done? One example: “In a last-ditch effort to forestall the outcome of the 2020 presidential election, Texas {Paxton} sought late Monday to file a lawsuit directly in the Supreme Court, attempting to delay the Electoral College vote and prevent four states – Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – from casting their Electoral College votes for President-elect Joe Biden, who won the popular vote in each state.”
What is The Bulwark doing? At a minimum, taking their eye off the ball. Also, IMO, reverting to the usual Republican gaslighting, which is their political upbringing.
You missed the point. The point is your focus in this article is on things that are not relevant. This type of article is the mainstream media cr*p - using a technical term here - that utterly failed to stop Trump. You are pretending - pretending because as a Bulwark person you know better - that the party of Trump is a normal party that wants to uphold a liberal democracy. You equate them to the only viable opposition party and try to make them equivalent. If these are people who cannot say “Biden won the 2020 election” and you write about them with anything other than contempt, you too have fallen.
I know, and it goes against JVL's "accept those opposing Trump where they are, even if they are MTG". Only a big tent can defeat authoritarianism. Authoritarians thrive on turning groups against each other and picking them off one by one.
I know of no authoritarian actions by Platner. Unlike Paxton! If it were up to him, he'd rig the Texas vote to see that he won. I'm sure he'll sue the state if Talarico prevails.
And, in fairness, the comparison isn't to Paxton. The comparison should be to Susan Collins.
Did Susan Collins vote to put a man credibly accused of attempted sexual assault to a lifetime on SCOTUS? Did Collins vote to put serial sex predator and also vaccine denialist to HHS? Did Collins vote to confirm Noem with her sex cabin on a government funded plane and allow actual Gestapo activity on the streets of the US?
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Collins might not have done the creepy stuff that Platner did, but she's allowed it, and worse, every step of the way.
At least we can get rid of Platner in the next cycle. We can't ever get rid of Kavenaugh and nothing is going to bring back Alex Pretti and Nicole Good.
so first of all a lot of times, it’s not the scandal that’s relevant. It’s how they respond to the scandal. I don’t like how Platner has responded to the scandal. He has lied about it or ant least has been very Clinton like in his comments and his wife suggested that since her husband is trying to do so much good for the people of Maine that no one should even ask questions like this. As for Paxton, his character issues have bled into actual public corruption. That’s an easy line to draw right there. You can cheat on your wife and be a perfectly good public servant. But both these guys suck basically for different reasons
Platner: sexting with other women, still married and has addressed the population. Probably 30M Americans have been in this situation. I know 2 of my great grandfathers and my father in law fall into this boat; accusations of at least considering an affair if not outright having one. And a tatoo that most wouldn't recognize as Nazi. I didn't. Does it have a swastika or image of Hitler?
Paxton: corruption felony indictment, paid off whistleblowers after firing them with taxpayer money, wants to deport all Muslims, unrepentent. Probably less than 10,000 people a year are indicted for corruption. Corruption is also a stain on our governance; it affects all citizens. Plus the unrepentant affairs; enough to get divorced.
Uh in no way did I equate the two situations. Other than saying they both suck. Which they do. I complained about how Platner responded to the allegations and pointed out that Paxton’s corruption was different. I know people love to argue but damn
Well ok let me be clear. They both suck. For different reasons. Planter’s texting habits is a tiny part of the reason he sucks. Paxton sucks more mostly because he is corrupt in the job and is a total pos. Platner is just a f@ckup. So while they both suck, they are not equal in the amount in which they suck. Better?
I don't know Joe...you write,"In truth, I have a hard time thinking of a dumber policy proposed by a member of any president’s cabinet since I started working in political journalism." Yes, unquestionably dumb, but the dumbest policy proposed?Not by a long shot. I mean,the DHS policy of testing an anti-drone weapon near an airport w/o notifying the FAA, is one the quickly comes to mind.
Platner's wife confronted him, early in their marriage, about the sexting. He agreed to go to counseling!! They went to marriage counseling, worked things out, and he quit the behavior. Shouldn't that count for something? In my mind, it does. It counts for a lot. It takes character to confront one's behavior, to admit one has done something wrong and hurtful (which I assume was part of the counseling at some point!), and then do something about it and continue working, with a loved one, to change. The person who lacks character in this whole saga is the campaign aide, who betrayed a confidence and furthermore, did not do her job.
I know right; Platner is the EXACT SAME as Paxton. He was impeached by the Maine House of Representatives, investigated by the FBI/DOJ for corruption, and even let a child molester out of prison.
Oh, hold on, no that was only Paxton. Strange that the Bulwark has stopped screaming "democrats need to dump the "purity" test bullshit!" Of course that doesn't fit the current narrative.
Is Joe Perticone becoming the new Andrew Eggar? I don't know if I can take two of them.
Dem establishment going hard at Platner is just alienating them more. I'm livid about it and really want Schumer gone. The old guard's time is over. Get out of the way.
Yes, actually, they are. Read Dan Pfeiffer's Message Box. Mill's was out today telling people she's still on the ballot. The old folks are a problem. Platner is an honorable vet. Many like him. I will take it over some slimy do gooder who has no idea what war looks like and won't push back on Trump.
Telling someone you are the ballot? You can't be serious. He is having problems because LAST Year he sent gross texts. Mills did not make him do that. That is all him. Same with all the gross stuff in his past. Look, you support him, fine but cut the BS.
C'mon! The people making a big deal of this are establishment Dems who also didn't back Mamdani because they are out of touch. Gross to whom? Were they consensual? If so, why is this anyone's business but his and his wife's? Why do we even need to know about this? Again, if nothing illegal I don't think it's our business.
Sorry, no. This is just a lot of excuses and deflection. If you actually want to build support for him you need to understand that. It is not remotely OK to say racist and sexist shit. Sexting shows impulse control issues and impaired judgment. Bleating about how only "such a person" cares about stuff like that makes you sound like a racist, sexist creep yourself (or at the very least like someone who does take those things seriously).
You think those are mistakes he has grown past, then make that case but this constant "his bad behavior is only only a problem because people are calling him on his bad behavior" does not make either him or you persuasive or appealing.
His comments were a long time ago and when he was dealing with post war trauma. HE HAS SAID THIS A MILLION TIMES and apologized. Furthermore, he hasn't made similar comments in a very long time. Are people, especially vets allowed to grow and change post war? As someone who has volunteered with vets certainly hope so. It is 100% prudish and highly weird to care about what someone does in their sex life or think you are the arbiter of what is acceptable. What about candidates who have kids but aren't married or have multiple partners. Are they out of bounds because in your world everyone should be in a committed relationship? The GOP loves that you are harping on this issue and trying to divide people based on your traditional values. Congratulations.
How about we stop judging candidates (both Democrats and and Republicans) on "character flaws" that don't rise to the level of criminal conduct and forget about all this stupid moralizing. I care more about what a candidate says about issues I care about, and couldn't care less about anything else.
I view the normalization of Bill Clinton's behavior as part of the roadway to Trump. Ditto Ted Kennedy.
I guess I'm old fashioned for a thirty some year old, but I don't trust a man who cheats on his wife. If he was willing to betray her, I see him as willing to betray his voters Fetterman style.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for him over Susan Collins, but I wouldn't expect good things out of him.
I'm not saying that you were! It's just once you have a president openly act in such away, and the party rose to his defense, it created a world in which it was acceptable for the other party to do the same. And it's not just the extramarital affair with Lewinski, it was that he was credibly accused of sexual assault. TBH though, having Ted Kennedy as a Senate leader was even worse. I mean someone freaking died.
I'll say this, the Clinton Presidency never really had any major crisis. No attacks on American soil, no major natural disasters, pandemic, or global financial meltdown. We'll never know, but I have a harsh enough opinion of the man's character to wonder if he would have risen to the moment. I suspect he would have done whatever was...gratifying for his ego in a moment of crises.
Clinton set the stage for a lot of things...the export of American jobs, the continued decline of the working class, bombing other countries to distract from political crises, and obviously, 9/11 happened less than 9 months after he left office.
Clinton stands out as a decent president only because we've had so many terrible ones after him.
The steel man case: If someone lacks the character to do the right thing in normal life with normal consequences, how can you trust them to do a good job following through with good judgement when they are in a place with far more opportunity to let their bad character shine through...and also with the means to cover up.
I'm inclined to think that Collins' bad character judgement is pretty disqualifying...but it doesn't mean I have to trust a guy who's stories just keep getting worse.
I'm not suggesting Platner should be trusted or not trusted. I'm saying trust doesnt enter it for me. It's about what he says about what his policy priorities are. I couldn't care less if he or anybody else is sexting, cheating on their spouse or whatever
Platner’s not a child molesting thief out to undermine our freedoms. That’s a biggly difference with Republicans.
In this craphole digital age, you’re not going to get perfection. We’re all imperfect human beings. Get over it.
Agreed, this comparison is another example of Democrats being held to a much different standard than Republicans. I expected better from the Bulwark.
Came here to say this exact thing — Platner is not accused of breaking laws or professional ethical standards …. This is a total false equivalency piece that is beneath the bulwark
I could not agree with your comment more vehemently.
I disagree there are so many vile Republicans that haven’t broken the law. J.D. Vance is unfit to serve on a school board much the less as senator and now Vice-President. Just because he hadn’t broken the law before becoming VP doesn’t mean anything.
Character matters and Platner has a lot of shortcomings. If he was running the primary against Susan Collins for the Republican nomination, I doubt the comments here would be so forgiving of him.
Platner isn't perfect, but Susan Collins has outlived her usefulness. I'd vote for Platner if I lived in Maine.
In case you're wondering, Opheodrys, I'm a Never-Trump Republican, not a Democrat.
Agreed. I’m so tired of this bullshit.
lot of Bulwark people used to be (still are?) Republican.
Yep. You can tell when a democrat gets caught sending steamy texts. Then the “both sides” starts coming out. The other side’s led by a friggin’ sadistic child molester for f##k’s sake.
We’re here for commentary not mindless cheerleading. That would the level of Fox.
I don't hold that against them unless they still are.
I'm very bulwarkian in background. Grew up in TX, very conservative, was first a never trumper who hoped his defeat would get the GOP back on track, who reluctantly voted for Biden....
People who are still on the right policy wise but CHOOSE to vote for left of center politicians and refuse to further the MAGA cause should be applauded for being able to understand that rule of law/democracy is a higher value than policy.
Some of us have become more liberal in policy preference over time, as we've all pushed back against this crap. But the most important thing is the pushing back, the refusal to continue contributing to the breakdown of our constitutional order.
See? And I totally don't hold that against you!
I am an ex-Republican and I am sick and tired of the partisan sh*t whereby Democrats are held to a higher standard than Republicans.
I am also old enough to remember when Clinton's entire second term was eaten up by Republicans who were quick enough to declare then that "Character matters," and so he was impeached for lying regarding his relations with Monika Lewinsky.
Considering the loathsome allegations against Trump (which make Clinton's infidelities look like a game of "Spin the Bottle" by comparison), I can see that character certainly doesn't matter to the RINO MAGA Trump party now!
Wasn’t it the serial adulterer Newt Gingrich making a huge fuss over Clinton?
Yes, cementing his reputation as a loathsome hypocrite.
I don’t believe they should but it matters. Democrats had an option to choose a non-controversial governor who stood up to Trump in reality not on a keyboard.
They chose the guy with the Nazi tattoo. Now it’s in for a penny in for a pound. They will have to use this same argument no matter what drops from now till then.
They pissed away a seat with Cal Cunningham in 2020 lost to Thom Tillis because of the late breaking affair news. If they piss away this seat everyone here will blame everybody but Platner.
Do you genuinely think he holds Nazi beliefs? Because I don't think anyone whinging about the tattoo does. It's just pearl clutching and a character attack. The guy was a drunk Marine who pointed to one of a dozen skull and crossbones variations on a tattoo parlor wall. If you're going to claim that picked out of a lineup, you would know that that particular one was problematic, you are lying.
Enough. The tattoo just flat out is not a character issue. Actual Nazi beliefs would be. But Collins is the one who votes to support those.
No I do not believe he has straight out Nazi beliefs. Nor do I believe Trump or Vance do. But they cosplay in an ugly way to extremists.
But my observations show he’s a compulsive liar who acts closer to a proud boy than a normal caring human.
It’s not a character attack to call out a candidate’s flaws. Especially when Democrats had a candidate that is far more electable now than he is.
One tattoo isn’t disqualifying for me. But one tattoo, some horrendous comments about women and their complacency in their own sexual assaults, dumb stereotypes on black voters, sexting scandals outside of marriage (I care least about this one) and then the violence against women coupled with the lying about the Nazi tattoo is far too much for me.
My original complaint against Platner was he will fundraise more in an election but get less votes than a safer candidate like Mills. And then when I found out about his character flaws I’ve seen this before that the tattoo isn’t the end. And then it’s been scandal after scandal and so I keep asking Bulwark commenters how much is too much? I believe that he was physically abusive toward women that’s a red line for me.
But the part that is so angering is that if he drops now the Dems basically bank this seat. Democratic voters abandoned people like Wiener knowing his seat was automatic Democrat. But rather than abandon Platner which would be a big increase in odds for Dems, the commenters here have decided to act very Trumpian and minimize everything against him or pretend a man with his past can’t attack a woman because she’s a Republican involved operative.
I think people are naive if they don’t think that something is being held back to nail him in the general once he can’t drop out. The leak on Swallwell made perfect sense from a Democratic campaign given the timing. This one could line up in the general.
Certain elements of the coalition brought us Fetterman, & now Platner, except it doesn’t look like Platner is even getting over the finish line. A different candidate would’ve been great in both states, wish we could be talking about Senator Connor Lamb from Pennsylvania, and any other Maine democrat.
Odds are plummeting, awful internal pole, just released.
https://kalshi.com/markets/senateme/maine-senate-race/senateme-26
If I was you, I would not put a lot of stock in these prediction markets. They're borderline scams, just like crypto and bitcoin.
The election markets are not scams. They have been more accurate than anyone wants to give them credit for. They are nothing like crypto.
Back in 2016 the prediction markets were giving Trump 35+% chance to win while polling like the NYT was giving him <1% chance to win. Polling had Harris a slight 50+% to win but prediction markets had her a significant underdog.
Kalshi may be an awful concept when it goes away from traditional outcomes like elections or sports results but it’s likely gonna nail these elections.
This Independent was hoping the Democrats would have selected Conor Lamb instead of "The Purple Masquerade."
Democrats are brilliant at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Nazi tattoo, extra-marital affairs, bad treatment of lovers. I doubt if this would get the GOP into a tizzy over a candidate who might actually win an election.
I became an Independent, not a Democrat, when I quit the GOP; the Democrats' desire to find reasons to lose was one of my motivators.
Janet Mills also is 77 years old.
Makes no difference. Susan Collins is 73. Janet Mills is a +8 favorability with an appeal like Susan Collins. Janet Mills fought ICE better than virtually every Democratic governor. And she represents Maine well.
If you add the fact that Maine is moving more Democratic state wide combined with the tough year Republicans face it gives Mills probably around the 80% chance that Roy Cooper has currently (his us a redder state).
Politically involved people think too much about energy and ideas when in reality it’s not an all star game where the passionate people vote 20+ times.
Janet Mills against Collins is like running a race car where you have the same model that’s been tested and you know you have a better engine and car than the opponent. You race it steady and you win the race. Planner is an untested theory even without the baggage. Now his odds are a coin flip because it is a very MAGAesque coalition you need to cobble together.
Agreed. I am "only" 75, and I think I'm too old.
Platner has done a lot of bad stuff and Dems wanted him over Janet Mills who would’ve been a better chance to beat Collins. That’s the real problem.
No, the real problem is that there’s asymmetric propaganda and a 500 mph headwind for Democrats because of Fox News and all the other stuff around it. That’s the real problem. So if you can flip a republican incumbent who has won five times previously does it really matter who you’re voting for? Because all of the reforms that are going to save our country require Democratic control of the Senate. I just don’t get the way people are thinking. You don’t ask for references when the fire department shows up at your burning house.
This is why our country is being captured by these criminals. You r right! the asymmetry of the moral expectations is astounding, while the Repubs accept all sins and take no accountability, the Dems (and allies) reject on any semblance of moral fragility, even if there is contrition and accountability, the so called purity test. I am frankly tired of this nonsense, if we can’t allow for minor moral fragility, we will only be able to elect Saints, cuz not even the clergy will be spotless, man, not even my grandma was spotless.
You’re right. Right now Fox is carrying: “Chuck Schumer sidesteps Platner scandals, confirms support for controversial Dem”
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/watch-schumer-sidesteps-platner-scandals-confirms-support-controversial-dem
How do you fight that?
Note that Fox has almost completely ignored Epstein.
Exactly
No she didn’t. In no way did she have a chance. Look at the polling and focus groups. Mills had no chance. She was polling so bad she suspended her campaign. This is a fantasy that Mills would win. It’s shows you don’t understand where the nation is. I am not talking about left or right. I am talking about working and failing. Mills is a product of an old broken system that has been failing people. Mills is better only in the margin that she would support a return to the old corrupt system. That system created Trump and returning to it will create another Trump or Huey Long. If we continue on that path, someone will cross the Rubicon. Someone will seize power and the consequences will be awful.
I think you’re right, that Mills would lose the election 57 to 43. But I don’t think that Mills is from a broken system that created Trump. I think Trump rose from system that was broken by Fox News. And I think the Democrats have have been slaughtered electorally for 30 years now. The press has us be believing that we live in a world that’s polarized, but in reality, 30% of the population has been brainwashed while the majority of independent voters have shown susceptibility to propaganda. Donald Trump has half the country believing that the Democrats are radical and obsessed with DEI and trans rights when none of that is actually true. Donald Trump would have you believe there’s an existential threat at the border when in fact it’s primarily administrative. Now that the border is sealed everyone’s life is great? It’s just the opposite. This wasn’t really a threat to the United States to begin with. Republicans with the aid of Fox News or maybe Fox News with the eight of Republicans have owned the narrative cycle after cycle after cycle. And they’ve done this with relentless clever pernicious propaganda. Appear like a news channel when in fact, you spew endless untruths and spin the news in a way that informs a narrative beneficial to conservative causes.
So I think you misunderstood what I meant by failed system. The legislature has not been representing or working for the common people for a long time. Multiple studies have shown public opinion has little effect on what is passed or pursued in Congress. Studies of this go back to 2014. Mills is from and apart of that system and that system did lead to Trump. Trumps initial appeal is and was true. The system is rigged, it is not responsive to voters and the swamp is putrid. I understood the appeal of Trump, I also knew Trump was a liar and a con man. That does not change the core truth of his appeal. The propaganda is just how they hide the ball on how much of a swamp monster Trump is. It is how they enable the attacks on the Democrats. It doesn’t change that the system, and Mills was very much apart of it, is broken. Same way Susan Collins is. Broadly speaking the difference between establishment Democrats and Republicans on policy has been narrow since the 1980s. Both prioritize capital over labor, Republicans just go 100% Democrats 80%. Broadly both have been interventionists as well, the words may change but the action and reason are directionally the same. These arch’s are how we got here. Platner represents and departure from that broken system, Mills did not.
You forget that Janet Mills also is, what, 77 years old?
> Right now, each party is dealing with a high-profile candidate in a key race who has significant fidelity issues: Republican Senate candidate Ken Paxton in Texas and Democratic Senate primary challenger Graham Platner in Maine. I asked lawmakers in both parties if they are second-guessing their respective dudes.
I'm going to stop you right there.
Paxton's issues aren't in any way, shape, or form limited to infidelity. Yes, there is apparently an infidelity angle, but it pales in comparison to the corruption, abuse of power, and bribery that got him impeached. If Paxton's *only* issue was infidelity it wouldn't rate, except insofar as Paxton's claim to moral high ground based on Christian traditional values exposes him as a hypocrite.
There is not a shred of validity to trying to put Platner and Paxton in the same category.
I'm not going to bother reading the rest of this article; I have better things to do with my time. Someone can reply to this with a comment if there's anything of value I miss.
Also, one candidate claims Christian values that prohibit infidelity and divorce. So he should be judged by the standard he judges others.
No. But you missed a laugh when author located San Fran and San Jose in SOUTHERN California.
Of course everyone is concerned about character. Of course, in the past, being gay was considered disqualifying for office, so as times change, so do the things that matter.
Platner sexted on his wife. They worked it out through counseling. They even told his campaign about it so they would be forewarned. That is a lot different from someone who cheats on their spouse and never tells them; who allegedly assaults a woman in a hotel room (can't ever remember which rep that was), who allegedly commits the felonies that Paxton did.
Swalwell had to drop out of the governor's race following severe allegations of sexual misconduct and assault made by multiple women, including former associates. That was good that he dropped out and then resigned.
As far as we know - Platner's character flaws do not reach that level AND he worked on it with his wife and revealed it to his campaign team. I'd say those last two things show decent character.
Al Franken shouldn't have had to leave the Senate for the photos he took, tasteless as they were.
Let Maine voters decide. I'm not clutching my pearls over this (even though I have other concerns about Platner, I'll still take him over Collins who has done so much damage to this country with her votes).
The worst oppo won't be dropped until the primary is over. The GOP most likely aren't morons in that regard.
Someone should ask something like why Platner was expelled from Hotchkiss.
I bet the Platner campaign is holding that one in reserve. I think that being expelled from Hotchkiss is probably the best possible thing a candidate in 2026 could have on their resume.
Even if it happened because of sexual assaults?
Theres zero evidence to even suggest that. Given Platners history, it would be more than a little shocking if any of his picadillos involved assault.
This should be obvious, but he should be Swallwelled if thats the case.
My bet is that he was a douche to a teacher or one of the rich students.
The problem you lay out is what is also behind so many people equating Trump's intentional middle-finger-up withholding of classified documents with Biden's unintentional and quickly/voluntarily remedied taking of classified documents. Platner and Paxton are just as different. Yeah, ok both stepped out on their wives and said intemperate things. Which one is taking responsibility for it? Platner, yes, Paxton, no. Sheesh!
Funny about those photos. A photographer was interviewed soon afterwords and gave a cogent description of one photo being “shopped.’ Said he would have liked to see the negative to be certain. Never heard anything after that, but I did wonder who was being truthful.
Can The Bulwark please stop calling it a “Nazi Tattoo”? It was a skull and crossbones. Even the NYTs calls it “a tattoo that resembles a Nazi symbol”. I guarantee 99.9% of us here would not have known this skull and crossbones was anything other than a skull and crossbones unless someone had told us otherwise.
Didn’t that picture fly in all the pirate movies I saw as a kid?
Yes, I didn't know it was a Nazi symbol. I though it was about pirates, and that seemed a pretty reasonable choice for someone who was in the Marines, grew up in Maine and wanted to seem like a badass.
It's a Totenkopf and Platner called it that.
Most people probably has no idea it's a SS tattoo but Platner certainly did.
So it is not EXCLUSIVELY a Nazi symbol. Multipke military and paramilitary have had a death heads totenkopf as its symbol. The German use goes back to Prussia and the Death Head Hussars. The Chetnik’s also used it as a symbol. Also not “good guys”. Never having seen it not sure if it’s the SS totenkopf, which is very similar to the Hussars totenkopf
Platner using the word "Totenkopf" himself tells he new exactly what the tattoo was.
He covered it up after it became public knowledge and a political liability.
Totenkopf is the name of the symbol. Deaths heads is a literal translation of toten kopf. The 5th Hussars were the Totenkopf hussars, and go back to the seven years war, aka The French-Indian war. Calling it a totenkopf is in no way evidence of knowing it is a Nazi symbol associated with the SS. Furthermore when did he call it a totenkopf? After he declared and decided that run and was informed about what it was? In and interview explaining his decision? I have not see and interviewed or evidence he was calling it a totenkopf prior to that period. It really feels like you want to make a moral judgement based on little evidence either because it makes you feel morally superior or you don’t like Platner.
He called it "my totenkopf", told his associate he new what it is was and defended military personnel having SS tattoos in his reddit posts.
So yes, he knew. And lied.
Now Pod Save Bros and Platner are attempting muddy the waters that he didn't know about it. Maybe he didn't when he took it but certainly did later on.
The point here is which one is the actual Platnet:
The reddit-version, the scumbag
The campaign-version, who has matured, is remorseful and has learned his lessons.
I saw a photo of it and would have thought “Nazi.”
You are absolutely correct. I am also a Republican and i have my policy preferences and biases. Only there's a note of hostility in your observation that a lot of Dems make much more explicitly hostile. I'm trying to be your ally in reclaiming the rule of law and the constitutional order, so that we can get back to arguing in good faith over ideals and policy. That's my agenda. Full stop. Divisiveness, making people feel unwelcome in the tent, doesn't help advance it.
I'm a Never-Trump Republican and I support this website financially. I want to win elections. Enough with the bullshit that Republicans are trying to remake the Dem party in their own image. May be true for some of the MAGA Putinistas, but not for the broad range of Rs who are tired of Trump, or never supported him even in 2016.
"The hostility you correctly sense is directed at Republicans who want to remake the Democratic Party in their own image. " As a disappointed Democrat who has seen how effective the Republican hate machine has been at demonizing us, facts be damned, I think we had better listen to anti-Trump Republicans have to say. They've worked for the winning side (even when Dems have won, the support has not been 'sticky', always precarious and short-lasting) and can see what we are unable to. They know first-hand how much better Republicans are at the messaging war, and what Democrat's vulnerablities are. In essence, they really want to smarten the Democrats up so they don't grab defeat from the jaws of victory.
I wish people would shut up about the tattoo already. Most young Marines end up with one or two stupid tattoos and they don't always know what they're getting. It took my friend two days before he realized the artist had misspelled Semper Fi.
I wish the dems would heartily endorse Platner. This is a war. We need power to change anything. Collins is bad! I’ve head dems criticizing Platner and it really pisses me off. We have a president who was convicted of sexual assault! Come on dems get it together!
While the Bulwark is at this, why not also bring up Obama’s tan suit?
What is the biggest issue facing America today, for which The Bulwark was founded? The preservation of America’s democracy and Constitutional order.
“ The Bulwark was founded to provide analysis and reporting in defense of America’s liberal democracy.”
What has Platner done that goes against this? AFAIK, nothing.
What has Paxton done? One example: “In a last-ditch effort to forestall the outcome of the 2020 presidential election, Texas {Paxton} sought late Monday to file a lawsuit directly in the Supreme Court, attempting to delay the Electoral College vote and prevent four states – Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – from casting their Electoral College votes for President-elect Joe Biden, who won the popular vote in each state.”
What is The Bulwark doing? At a minimum, taking their eye off the ball. Also, IMO, reverting to the usual Republican gaslighting, which is their political upbringing.
Improve, or I am out of here.
What makes you think I of all people would be anti-tan suit?
You missed the point. The point is your focus in this article is on things that are not relevant. This type of article is the mainstream media cr*p - using a technical term here - that utterly failed to stop Trump. You are pretending - pretending because as a Bulwark person you know better - that the party of Trump is a normal party that wants to uphold a liberal democracy. You equate them to the only viable opposition party and try to make them equivalent. If these are people who cannot say “Biden won the 2020 election” and you write about them with anything other than contempt, you too have fallen.
I know, and it goes against JVL's "accept those opposing Trump where they are, even if they are MTG". Only a big tent can defeat authoritarianism. Authoritarians thrive on turning groups against each other and picking them off one by one.
I know of no authoritarian actions by Platner. Unlike Paxton! If it were up to him, he'd rig the Texas vote to see that he won. I'm sure he'll sue the state if Talarico prevails.
And, in fairness, the comparison isn't to Paxton. The comparison should be to Susan Collins.
Did Susan Collins vote to put a man credibly accused of attempted sexual assault to a lifetime on SCOTUS? Did Collins vote to put serial sex predator and also vaccine denialist to HHS? Did Collins vote to confirm Noem with her sex cabin on a government funded plane and allow actual Gestapo activity on the streets of the US?
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Collins might not have done the creepy stuff that Platner did, but she's allowed it, and worse, every step of the way.
At least we can get rid of Platner in the next cycle. We can't ever get rid of Kavenaugh and nothing is going to bring back Alex Pretti and Nicole Good.
Don't let the door hit you in the rear end.......
Just wanted to say I appreciated all of the Lonely Island references
Seconded!
so first of all a lot of times, it’s not the scandal that’s relevant. It’s how they respond to the scandal. I don’t like how Platner has responded to the scandal. He has lied about it or ant least has been very Clinton like in his comments and his wife suggested that since her husband is trying to do so much good for the people of Maine that no one should even ask questions like this. As for Paxton, his character issues have bled into actual public corruption. That’s an easy line to draw right there. You can cheat on your wife and be a perfectly good public servant. But both these guys suck basically for different reasons
It's pure false equivalence to compare these 2.
Platner: sexting with other women, still married and has addressed the population. Probably 30M Americans have been in this situation. I know 2 of my great grandfathers and my father in law fall into this boat; accusations of at least considering an affair if not outright having one. And a tatoo that most wouldn't recognize as Nazi. I didn't. Does it have a swastika or image of Hitler?
Paxton: corruption felony indictment, paid off whistleblowers after firing them with taxpayer money, wants to deport all Muslims, unrepentent. Probably less than 10,000 people a year are indicted for corruption. Corruption is also a stain on our governance; it affects all citizens. Plus the unrepentant affairs; enough to get divorced.
Uh in no way did I equate the two situations. Other than saying they both suck. Which they do. I complained about how Platner responded to the allegations and pointed out that Paxton’s corruption was different. I know people love to argue but damn
I mean...a kick in the nuts sucks...and my favorite bar not having the NBA game on also sucks.
You kind of equated the two things.
Well ok let me be clear. They both suck. For different reasons. Planter’s texting habits is a tiny part of the reason he sucks. Paxton sucks more mostly because he is corrupt in the job and is a total pos. Platner is just a f@ckup. So while they both suck, they are not equal in the amount in which they suck. Better?
So you're supporting Collins for re-election?
I don’t live in Maine, so no.
Just look who they all support as the leader of this country - need I say more..
I don't know Joe...you write,"In truth, I have a hard time thinking of a dumber policy proposed by a member of any president’s cabinet since I started working in political journalism." Yes, unquestionably dumb, but the dumbest policy proposed?Not by a long shot. I mean,the DHS policy of testing an anti-drone weapon near an airport w/o notifying the FAA, is one the quickly comes to mind.
Or firing live ammunition over a freeway, and not closing the road or informing the governor as early as possible.
In fairness these were incidents not policies . Stupidity and disregard for safety - that was the policy
True. Thank you for the correction. Figured stupidity would play a part.
Platner's wife confronted him, early in their marriage, about the sexting. He agreed to go to counseling!! They went to marriage counseling, worked things out, and he quit the behavior. Shouldn't that count for something? In my mind, it does. It counts for a lot. It takes character to confront one's behavior, to admit one has done something wrong and hurtful (which I assume was part of the counseling at some point!), and then do something about it and continue working, with a loved one, to change. The person who lacks character in this whole saga is the campaign aide, who betrayed a confidence and furthermore, did not do her job.
Politicians and sports: I know first hand Sherrod Brown knows more about the Cleveland Guardians than any living person.
I'm glad to see that you've now got 2 OSU Beavs in the lineup!
If he's like my native Clevelander wife, he probably regrets knowing so much!
I know right; Platner is the EXACT SAME as Paxton. He was impeached by the Maine House of Representatives, investigated by the FBI/DOJ for corruption, and even let a child molester out of prison.
Oh, hold on, no that was only Paxton. Strange that the Bulwark has stopped screaming "democrats need to dump the "purity" test bullshit!" Of course that doesn't fit the current narrative.
Is Joe Perticone becoming the new Andrew Eggar? I don't know if I can take two of them.
It seems like the only problematic purity tests are the ones involving protecting the rights of trans people.
Dem establishment going hard at Platner is just alienating them more. I'm livid about it and really want Schumer gone. The old guard's time is over. Get out of the way.
Dem establishment is doing nothing to him. His problems are caused by his behavior. This constant deflection is really off putting.
Dude is creep. Even so, because of where we are, he is a creep we have to support. That is all that need be said.
Yes, actually, they are. Read Dan Pfeiffer's Message Box. Mill's was out today telling people she's still on the ballot. The old folks are a problem. Platner is an honorable vet. Many like him. I will take it over some slimy do gooder who has no idea what war looks like and won't push back on Trump.
Telling someone you are the ballot? You can't be serious. He is having problems because LAST Year he sent gross texts. Mills did not make him do that. That is all him. Same with all the gross stuff in his past. Look, you support him, fine but cut the BS.
C'mon! The people making a big deal of this are establishment Dems who also didn't back Mamdani because they are out of touch. Gross to whom? Were they consensual? If so, why is this anyone's business but his and his wife's? Why do we even need to know about this? Again, if nothing illegal I don't think it's our business.
Sorry, no. This is just a lot of excuses and deflection. If you actually want to build support for him you need to understand that. It is not remotely OK to say racist and sexist shit. Sexting shows impulse control issues and impaired judgment. Bleating about how only "such a person" cares about stuff like that makes you sound like a racist, sexist creep yourself (or at the very least like someone who does take those things seriously).
You think those are mistakes he has grown past, then make that case but this constant "his bad behavior is only only a problem because people are calling him on his bad behavior" does not make either him or you persuasive or appealing.
His comments were a long time ago and when he was dealing with post war trauma. HE HAS SAID THIS A MILLION TIMES and apologized. Furthermore, he hasn't made similar comments in a very long time. Are people, especially vets allowed to grow and change post war? As someone who has volunteered with vets certainly hope so. It is 100% prudish and highly weird to care about what someone does in their sex life or think you are the arbiter of what is acceptable. What about candidates who have kids but aren't married or have multiple partners. Are they out of bounds because in your world everyone should be in a committed relationship? The GOP loves that you are harping on this issue and trying to divide people based on your traditional values. Congratulations.
Janet Mills pushed back against ICE as effective as any governor in the country.
Platner types on a keyboard. Being a legislator and a soldier are two different things.
Oh, so we have some Mills people here. Mills is a Governor; it is her job. How would Platner do that as a common citizen? Ineffective comparison.
How about we stop judging candidates (both Democrats and and Republicans) on "character flaws" that don't rise to the level of criminal conduct and forget about all this stupid moralizing. I care more about what a candidate says about issues I care about, and couldn't care less about anything else.
bad character brings bad judgement for U&Me.
Meh. Bill Clinton certainly didn't have stellar character but he was a decent POTUS.
I view the normalization of Bill Clinton's behavior as part of the roadway to Trump. Ditto Ted Kennedy.
I guess I'm old fashioned for a thirty some year old, but I don't trust a man who cheats on his wife. If he was willing to betray her, I see him as willing to betray his voters Fetterman style.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for him over Susan Collins, but I wouldn't expect good things out of him.
I'm not normalizing his behavior. What I said was that despite being deeply flawed he was a decent POTUS. It's only the latter I care about.
I'm not saying that you were! It's just once you have a president openly act in such away, and the party rose to his defense, it created a world in which it was acceptable for the other party to do the same. And it's not just the extramarital affair with Lewinski, it was that he was credibly accused of sexual assault. TBH though, having Ted Kennedy as a Senate leader was even worse. I mean someone freaking died.
I'll say this, the Clinton Presidency never really had any major crisis. No attacks on American soil, no major natural disasters, pandemic, or global financial meltdown. We'll never know, but I have a harsh enough opinion of the man's character to wonder if he would have risen to the moment. I suspect he would have done whatever was...gratifying for his ego in a moment of crises.
Clinton set the stage for a lot of things...the export of American jobs, the continued decline of the working class, bombing other countries to distract from political crises, and obviously, 9/11 happened less than 9 months after he left office.
Clinton stands out as a decent president only because we've had so many terrible ones after him.
What Ifs R not a credible argument. 👍
You'd have to go back to JFK for that then. Then FDR. And probably back and back to the founding fathers.
Just as with intelligence, there are many kinds of character. This is painting with an overbroad brush.
paint with a broad brush so U R not wrong....
Kinds. Why can't I correct...
The steel man case: If someone lacks the character to do the right thing in normal life with normal consequences, how can you trust them to do a good job following through with good judgement when they are in a place with far more opportunity to let their bad character shine through...and also with the means to cover up.
I'm inclined to think that Collins' bad character judgement is pretty disqualifying...but it doesn't mean I have to trust a guy who's stories just keep getting worse.
I'm not suggesting Platner should be trusted or not trusted. I'm saying trust doesnt enter it for me. It's about what he says about what his policy priorities are. I couldn't care less if he or anybody else is sexting, cheating on their spouse or whatever