Disneyland was much more affordable for medium income families in the 70s and 80s, even 90s. But then again, I didn't have kids and it was just for me and my friend/spouse. We stayed off property that was at the back end of their parking lot so we just walked over. But food and ticket prices did go up pretty fast in the 90s. I personally think the real increase of costs started in the 2000s. But again, that's when I had kids. Before kids I went several times a year and the park cost was $60 (late 90s) and they only had one park. Once they made California Adventure and downtown Disney it really went up.
It's just the way it goes with Disney and Universal. But it has made the other parks much more affordable for the medium income families. Legoland, Knott's Berry Farm, Wolf's water parks are all great options for us Californians now.
Now I like using fast passes and will do it when I can afford it because time is of the essence when going to the parks. We try to go when it's a low season so there are less people too. School schedule can be a bit of a problem with that though.
I would need to see a study of disney's ticket price elasticity to believe that the lightning lanes and other means of nickel and diming led to lower ticket prices. I'm sorry. I think they know they have a monopoly and can charge what they want regardless of tier. I see this more like the creep of baggage fees in air travel. They get you used to being nickel and dimed using some justification until slowly like a frog in boiling water you just accept them even when the rationale is no longer there.
First, let me thank you for saving me from Caught Stealing. I have no interest in such gratuitous violence.
Disney a corporation is like pro sports corporations and will charge whatever they can get away with to make money for their investors. Patrons are the product. These corporations do not exist to be part of the community fabric but they will market themselves as such to appeal to people.
Regarding Peter's claim that a lot of people have gotten richer, true for a few but not for the majority of the middle class:
What created our extensive middle class was the progressive income tax with high upper marginal rates because wealth NEVER trickles down, it aggregates as seen in EVERY civilization that did not control excessive earnings. Peter believes in the false claims of the flawed ideology known as libertarianism. Markets NEVER solved a problem, they create them, competent individuals and political will do. However, Disney's cost is not a problem that political will should address, it is truly the exclusive providence of the market.
Peter was correct in calling out the “Disney myth”; i.e., that it was previously an American middle class vacation destination.
Disney cultivated that myth through “The Wonderful World of Disney,” which showed average American families enjoying his parks.
Most Americans intrinsically grasp that international vacations and weekends yachting are for the wealthy, privileged, and connected.
But, because Disney has fed us a steady diet promoting the idea that the theme parks are a “typical family vacation,” parents will scrimp, save, and go into debt to take their children on a Disney vacation. Average American parents don’t feel the same need to sacrifice so that their kids can spend a week in France or sail off the coast of Mykonos.
Didn’t see this coming. Is Sonny becoming a commie? No judgement here given I once disliked Lil’ Marco for his support for child tax credit and now on my way to be voting for AOC if she is the alternative to MAGA.
So I am a big disney fan... but I am over the American parks. We used to go at least once year sometimes more frequently.... the last time I went to the USA park was 2022 and the amount of upcharges was just so annoying. The magic bands were no longer included in the price, the multiple lightning lane charges, getting decent seating at some of the shows... We stayed at the premium hotel - and we didn't get daily housekeeping, no room service was available. Anyway, I just felt so nickel and dimed while having to spend an insane amount of planning on my phone and the service was pretty awful.
This summer we went to the Tokyo parks and it was so much better.... yes there was a pay for fastpass option(s) but there was not the constant cost upgrades that you find at the Disney parks. Also, I wasn't constantly on my phone. It just was an all around better experience. We plan to do the Paris parks next. I would rather spend the money to go abroad and do more than the parks... then spend all the money at Orlando.
I'm a huge Disney fan. A few years ago, I almost died and was left disabled. I was heartbroken because it meant that I would never be able to go to Disneyland. While I was still in the hospital my friend promised me that when I got better we would go. We had to wait 2 years because of Covid. But we went and had the whole VIP experience. We spent half the time at the Contemporary and half at the Polynesian. We got the Lightning lanes for everything. Totally worth it. And there's a separate entrance, so people don't walk past all the others waiting in line. The rides were nice, but the park is an experience. The parades and shows. Shopping. Eating and drinking around the world at Epcot. I loved the safari at Animal Kingdom. It's a great vacation even without kids. There's a whole genre of YouTube influencers that go to all the parks and let you know what is new, what to ride, where to eat, what to buy.
If you can possibly afford it, the upgrades are worth it. Staying on property saves you driving, parking and walking. You get in early and get to stay late. The worst part about the Lightning Lanes isn't the money - it's the constant planning. I had to get up early every morning to try and book the first ride. You couldn't book another one until you either rode the first one, or 2 hours passed. It was very complicated. The one at Universal is so much easier because you can ride what you want when you want to. But after buying a plane ticket an paying hundreds of dollars per day for a hotel, you can either shell out another $100 a day or spend the whole day standing in line.
And Disney is very handicapped friendly. I've made several trips back because I can rent a scooter and that makes it easier for me. You can't do that anywhere else.
https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?feature=shared not to be annoying but this defunctland video which is a little dated but it still does a great job of explaining why the new fast pass system is so terrible specifically for line management and crowd control. Which I think is part of the reason people have reacted so negatively to the paid fast pass system. Like it actively has made the experience worse for the majority.
My issue isn't specifically with Disney's attempt to make more money off the wealthy. I owned a resort business and also "upscaled" my business to align with the needs of the wealthiest tourists. It turned out that by offering premium services and products, I was able to double my revenue while only increasing my costs by 20%. Willingness to pay is far from linear. I always laugh when someone says "how could that lady justify dropping $30,000 on that Birkin bag she's carrying?" Well, it's not "$30,000" to her. For her, it might be the equivalent of deciding to splurge on a new pair of running shoes at Dick's.
The issue is the underlying trend of massive wealth inequality. I grew up in an old mill town that boomed in the 20s to 50s, had some beautiful homes (mill managers and owners) and some utilitarian homes (craftsman, but often made of scrap mill parts), all built during this time period. What stuck me is that the mill workers could 1) still afford to own a home and 2) lived on the same streets as their bosses. They interacted with one another and treated one another as people.
The idea that a Jeff Bezos could live on the same street, or even in the same 10-block radius, as one of his rank and file Amazon workers in 2025 is preposterous. Look at that recent article on Mark Zuckerberg buying out his neighborhood in Menlo Park. He isn't a part of the neighborhood; nobody there has ever interacted with the guy.
It's a lot easier to treat people as numbers or "the other" when they aren't actually people that you interact with. Social standing is a big deal, and it used to be that if you were a jerk to people, society wasn't kind to you. Now being an A-hole is somehow a sign of "Alpha strength" as if we are all cavemen.
I don’t disagree with the outrageous prices for Disney. It has been 11 years since we took our one trip. But I’m curious if Sonny’s selection of a “random day in October” coincided with fall break. When half of my kids’ classmates were heading to Disney. How about mid January? I’m not saying it isn’t high but you may have picked a high time for other areas of the country to head to Florida. So yes it is higher that time year.
I’ve been annoyed about the FastPass mechanisms for quite a while. My beef isn’t that they exist, but that the implementation mechanisms magnify and flaunt the inequality. I haven’t been to Disney in years, but it started out that EVERYONE could get a fast pass for individual rides. It was part of your ticket. You just needed to go to a kiosk to get one, and they limited how many you could get. Universal has always sold them as an upgrade. So at Universal, you FEEL "less than" when the Fast Passers breeze by you.
No one is resentful when they’re driving down the road and a Maserati zooms by in the next lane. They have money, they chose to buy that nice car. People mostly don’t feel resentful that Ritz Carlton exists when they’re staying at the Motel 6. But everyone hates walking past those first class seats on the plane to get to their seats in steerage.
The revolution is coming. But by then, the rich will have AI robots to keep the masses at bay. : )
I have DRAMATICALLY mixed and hypocritical feelings about all this stuff. On the one hand, I think it's bad. On other hand, though, I absolutely pay for Lightning Lane access because time is the most valuable thing you have at Disney parks and I want to "win" the park (that is, "do more rides than anyone else").
Same. Both at D-world and D-land I pay for the lightning lane to “win” the system and get my money’s worth out of the parks…but yeah I do feel slightly filthy for being a part of their system that underpays their workers.
Class consciousness is the goal. If the petit bourgeoise are complaining about prices at Disney, then the real capitalists who own all of us might be in trouble.
Disneyland was much more affordable for medium income families in the 70s and 80s, even 90s. But then again, I didn't have kids and it was just for me and my friend/spouse. We stayed off property that was at the back end of their parking lot so we just walked over. But food and ticket prices did go up pretty fast in the 90s. I personally think the real increase of costs started in the 2000s. But again, that's when I had kids. Before kids I went several times a year and the park cost was $60 (late 90s) and they only had one park. Once they made California Adventure and downtown Disney it really went up.
It's just the way it goes with Disney and Universal. But it has made the other parks much more affordable for the medium income families. Legoland, Knott's Berry Farm, Wolf's water parks are all great options for us Californians now.
Now I like using fast passes and will do it when I can afford it because time is of the essence when going to the parks. We try to go when it's a low season so there are less people too. School schedule can be a bit of a problem with that though.
I would need to see a study of disney's ticket price elasticity to believe that the lightning lanes and other means of nickel and diming led to lower ticket prices. I'm sorry. I think they know they have a monopoly and can charge what they want regardless of tier. I see this more like the creep of baggage fees in air travel. They get you used to being nickel and dimed using some justification until slowly like a frog in boiling water you just accept them even when the rationale is no longer there.
First, let me thank you for saving me from Caught Stealing. I have no interest in such gratuitous violence.
Disney a corporation is like pro sports corporations and will charge whatever they can get away with to make money for their investors. Patrons are the product. These corporations do not exist to be part of the community fabric but they will market themselves as such to appeal to people.
Regarding Peter's claim that a lot of people have gotten richer, true for a few but not for the majority of the middle class:
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/
What created our extensive middle class was the progressive income tax with high upper marginal rates because wealth NEVER trickles down, it aggregates as seen in EVERY civilization that did not control excessive earnings. Peter believes in the false claims of the flawed ideology known as libertarianism. Markets NEVER solved a problem, they create them, competent individuals and political will do. However, Disney's cost is not a problem that political will should address, it is truly the exclusive providence of the market.
Peter was correct in calling out the “Disney myth”; i.e., that it was previously an American middle class vacation destination.
Disney cultivated that myth through “The Wonderful World of Disney,” which showed average American families enjoying his parks.
Most Americans intrinsically grasp that international vacations and weekends yachting are for the wealthy, privileged, and connected.
But, because Disney has fed us a steady diet promoting the idea that the theme parks are a “typical family vacation,” parents will scrimp, save, and go into debt to take their children on a Disney vacation. Average American parents don’t feel the same need to sacrifice so that their kids can spend a week in France or sail off the coast of Mykonos.
Didn’t see this coming. Is Sonny becoming a commie? No judgement here given I once disliked Lil’ Marco for his support for child tax credit and now on my way to be voting for AOC if she is the alternative to MAGA.
Well I don’t think the government should seize the means of Disney Magic. Social cohesion matters though!
If your argument hinges on “people economically better off than ever before!” and “look how awesome air travel is now!” you lost me, bro.
So I am a big disney fan... but I am over the American parks. We used to go at least once year sometimes more frequently.... the last time I went to the USA park was 2022 and the amount of upcharges was just so annoying. The magic bands were no longer included in the price, the multiple lightning lane charges, getting decent seating at some of the shows... We stayed at the premium hotel - and we didn't get daily housekeeping, no room service was available. Anyway, I just felt so nickel and dimed while having to spend an insane amount of planning on my phone and the service was pretty awful.
This summer we went to the Tokyo parks and it was so much better.... yes there was a pay for fastpass option(s) but there was not the constant cost upgrades that you find at the Disney parks. Also, I wasn't constantly on my phone. It just was an all around better experience. We plan to do the Paris parks next. I would rather spend the money to go abroad and do more than the parks... then spend all the money at Orlando.
‘LL’ is just another example of money buying access, with Disney
(and others) more than happy to take the loot.
I'm a huge Disney fan. A few years ago, I almost died and was left disabled. I was heartbroken because it meant that I would never be able to go to Disneyland. While I was still in the hospital my friend promised me that when I got better we would go. We had to wait 2 years because of Covid. But we went and had the whole VIP experience. We spent half the time at the Contemporary and half at the Polynesian. We got the Lightning lanes for everything. Totally worth it. And there's a separate entrance, so people don't walk past all the others waiting in line. The rides were nice, but the park is an experience. The parades and shows. Shopping. Eating and drinking around the world at Epcot. I loved the safari at Animal Kingdom. It's a great vacation even without kids. There's a whole genre of YouTube influencers that go to all the parks and let you know what is new, what to ride, where to eat, what to buy.
If you can possibly afford it, the upgrades are worth it. Staying on property saves you driving, parking and walking. You get in early and get to stay late. The worst part about the Lightning Lanes isn't the money - it's the constant planning. I had to get up early every morning to try and book the first ride. You couldn't book another one until you either rode the first one, or 2 hours passed. It was very complicated. The one at Universal is so much easier because you can ride what you want when you want to. But after buying a plane ticket an paying hundreds of dollars per day for a hotel, you can either shell out another $100 a day or spend the whole day standing in line.
And Disney is very handicapped friendly. I've made several trips back because I can rent a scooter and that makes it easier for me. You can't do that anywhere else.
Sorry about your health situation and thank you for sharing the plus side on the fast passes. Glad you were able to enjoy the park again.
https://youtu.be/9yjZpBq1XBE?feature=shared not to be annoying but this defunctland video which is a little dated but it still does a great job of explaining why the new fast pass system is so terrible specifically for line management and crowd control. Which I think is part of the reason people have reacted so negatively to the paid fast pass system. Like it actively has made the experience worse for the majority.
Cost of taking a family of 4 to an LA Rams game is 550 to 600 plus dollars not counting food and drink
My issue isn't specifically with Disney's attempt to make more money off the wealthy. I owned a resort business and also "upscaled" my business to align with the needs of the wealthiest tourists. It turned out that by offering premium services and products, I was able to double my revenue while only increasing my costs by 20%. Willingness to pay is far from linear. I always laugh when someone says "how could that lady justify dropping $30,000 on that Birkin bag she's carrying?" Well, it's not "$30,000" to her. For her, it might be the equivalent of deciding to splurge on a new pair of running shoes at Dick's.
The issue is the underlying trend of massive wealth inequality. I grew up in an old mill town that boomed in the 20s to 50s, had some beautiful homes (mill managers and owners) and some utilitarian homes (craftsman, but often made of scrap mill parts), all built during this time period. What stuck me is that the mill workers could 1) still afford to own a home and 2) lived on the same streets as their bosses. They interacted with one another and treated one another as people.
The idea that a Jeff Bezos could live on the same street, or even in the same 10-block radius, as one of his rank and file Amazon workers in 2025 is preposterous. Look at that recent article on Mark Zuckerberg buying out his neighborhood in Menlo Park. He isn't a part of the neighborhood; nobody there has ever interacted with the guy.
It's a lot easier to treat people as numbers or "the other" when they aren't actually people that you interact with. Social standing is a big deal, and it used to be that if you were a jerk to people, society wasn't kind to you. Now being an A-hole is somehow a sign of "Alpha strength" as if we are all cavemen.
When are we going to get video for this pod?
I don’t disagree with the outrageous prices for Disney. It has been 11 years since we took our one trip. But I’m curious if Sonny’s selection of a “random day in October” coincided with fall break. When half of my kids’ classmates were heading to Disney. How about mid January? I’m not saying it isn’t high but you may have picked a high time for other areas of the country to head to Florida. So yes it is higher that time year.
I’ve been annoyed about the FastPass mechanisms for quite a while. My beef isn’t that they exist, but that the implementation mechanisms magnify and flaunt the inequality. I haven’t been to Disney in years, but it started out that EVERYONE could get a fast pass for individual rides. It was part of your ticket. You just needed to go to a kiosk to get one, and they limited how many you could get. Universal has always sold them as an upgrade. So at Universal, you FEEL "less than" when the Fast Passers breeze by you.
No one is resentful when they’re driving down the road and a Maserati zooms by in the next lane. They have money, they chose to buy that nice car. People mostly don’t feel resentful that Ritz Carlton exists when they’re staying at the Motel 6. But everyone hates walking past those first class seats on the plane to get to their seats in steerage.
The revolution is coming. But by then, the rich will have AI robots to keep the masses at bay. : )
Comrade Sonny is talking about income inequality and capitalism. The revolution is nigh.
I have DRAMATICALLY mixed and hypocritical feelings about all this stuff. On the one hand, I think it's bad. On other hand, though, I absolutely pay for Lightning Lane access because time is the most valuable thing you have at Disney parks and I want to "win" the park (that is, "do more rides than anyone else").
Same. Both at D-world and D-land I pay for the lightning lane to “win” the system and get my money’s worth out of the parks…but yeah I do feel slightly filthy for being a part of their system that underpays their workers.
Class consciousness is the goal. If the petit bourgeoise are complaining about prices at Disney, then the real capitalists who own all of us might be in trouble.