Hey Jvl , just wanted to side with you on the NYT not getting argument , just read their story of us executing people in boats and the quote that enraged me was “So far, the Trump administration has acknowledged killing 32 people in the strikes, whose legality has been widely disputed by outside legal specialists.” And so they turned summarily executing civilians into a possible legal or illegal argument like something as benign as a zoning dispute( it is disputed that this breaches the zoning regulations of the neighborhood ,) it reminds me of the deal with climate change representation in the media , where instead of making the apt representation of 99 scientists who say it is fact , to the one who doesn’t into a 50/50 debate where one says it is real and the other says no , thus changing the argument to 50/50 instead of 99/1
I know I'm coming at this very late. I can't remember if I commented when it first came out, but I was rereading it this weekend, and I have some thoughts. Namely: why is it the national guard federalizations feel like crossing the Rubicon and not what's happening with ICE's ramped-up brutality?
Maybe it's not helpful to look for the One True Outrage. Legally, the federalizations are crossing a much more obvious, distinct line, and even in terms of history, the parallel is not lost on me. It's been decades since Western Civ, but as I recall Rome had a law against sending troops from one province to another, and when Caesar violated it he set off a civil war and got himself crowned emperor, which is nothing if not depressingly relevant. Even so, when I think about what's really changing America, it's these unprincipled racist thugs who saw what ICE was doing and wanted to be a part of it, not at the border but in America's streets. National Guard people are mostly pre-Trump, quite often semi-retired veterans and they signed up to protect their communities, so the ethos really does feel different, however awful the legalities.
I'm sure there are good people in ICE, too, but they're currently overwhelmed with people who have limited training and have mistaken shock and awe for true strength. If I had to choose – and again, I'm not sure why we should have to – that's the true Rubicon. It's not crossing a literal state border, but it is crossing a big line in how law enforcement is supposed to interact with the citizenry.
Then again, maybe I'm just very white and this kind of thing has been happening throughout history, recent history included, and I've just not had to see at it. But from my vantage point this all feels very new and not at all like how I was raised to believe America actually was.
When I saw the word “Chipocalypse”, I first thought of China rather than Chicago. This whole thing reminds me of Tiananmen Square. The local troops from Beijing refused to fire on the protesters, so the communist leadership brought in troops from a distant rural area, who had no connection to the local population of the capital, to carry out the required violence. I suspect that Stephen Miller, if not Trump himself, was consciously following the ChiCom model in putting out a call for troops from a red state.
The Illinois State Police should bust members of ICE for their illegal actions and assaults. Point out that they are handling the violence so Trump can withdraw the Texas NG.
I live in the Chicago suburbs and I'm watching all this stuff with great alarm. ICE was down at our public library the other day, jacking people up. They were at a local Mexican grocery store today, messing with people and threatening them. They're staying in a Holiday Inn a mile or so from my house.
It's all right frickin' here.
And I don't want to minimize the lawlessness of all of this. If the Governor of Illinois decided that Texas was violating the rights of trans kids and sent the Illinois National Guard down there to make sure some trans kid got to swim in some high school swim meet, Abbott would go bonkers, so I get it. We can't have states invading each other.
But I can't help but thinking about it this way. First, the city is peaceful and beautiful and there's stuff going on. The Cubs are doing great. The Chicago Marathon is next weekend. The leaves are changing. The weather's beautiful. People are outside, eating dinner, listening to music, kayaking on the river.
Meal Team Six is down at an old arsenal building in Elwood. They're not in Chicago. They're down near Joliet. Can't speak from experience, but I'm guessing it's a dump. The fat-asses from Texas are getting turned away from local restaurants. Chicago restauranteurs can refuse service to anyone and they are. Good for them. There's a guy that follows these clowns around playing the Darth Vader theme. They're not being harassed, but they're being made to understand they're not welcome. Want an Italian Beef sandwich? Change into civilian clothes, drop the mask, get an Uber to Portillo's and act like a decent human being. Them's the rules here. Welcome to Chicago. Enjoy. Otherwise, it's overcooked chili mac back at the arsenal barracks. You pick. (And, by the way, these dudes are living in glorified tents down there, using portable showers. It's ugly.)
There are 300 Texas Lard-Asses here. Fat Troops. What Hegseth would call, "not a good look." Clearly not adhering to the height and weight standards. No PT for these guys. A push-up might bring on a medical emergency. Yes, there have been some clashes -- not to minimize them -- but most of these douchebags are wandering around doing nothing. They're not even particularly menacing because they're so doughy.
How long's that going to continue? Aren't they going to get sick of this and want to go home? Aren't they going to get some free time and go downtown and see what this place is all about? Go native? Go down to Wrigleyville and catch Game 4 (or Game 5)? How you gonna keep them down in Texas after they've seen Chicago?
This, it seems to me, is all play-acting. It's all stupid. It's all just an attempt to goad someone into taking a swing. I don't see this turning out well for Trump or Hegseth or Abbott at all.
Oh, yeah. Living in a tent in a Chicago winter is not what these guys were made for. Of course, when your BMI is 35, you might be insulated enough to not die. They might consider snuggling up together to keep warm...
Thank you for covering this to the degree that you have. IT MATTERS that people understand the actual violence happening to our fellow human beings -- be they protesters, citizens sleeping in their beds, witnesses, media, or immigrants trying to make a life in our once welcoming nation.
ONE SMALL THING -- please comment if you are knowledgeable. What does it mean that none of those being detained are given a reason for their detention, are not being read their rights, and are not being given the right to counsel? I mean, I know in the lived sense what it means (ignoring personal rights), but what does it mean LEGALLY, lawsuit-wise, CRIMINALLY perhaps in the long run, when rights are ignored on a grand scale by specific players driving the strategy, and what does it mean CONSITUTIONALLY (assuming that document yet waves) in terms of OVERREACH.
Fantasizing for a moment that Trump is eventually defeated and the good people of the GOP come to their ever-loving senses (is there mold in the grain in Washington DC? 'cause this is feeling as surreal as Salem MA, circa 1692) -- Do the citizens who the government has extralegally abused have a case for compensation for their betrayal at the hands of a corrupt government + pain and suffering? Can the perps be sent to jail for their crimes?
Greater minds, please comment. I really want to know.
I think if nothing else every one harmed by ICE and Donald have a violation of civil and constitutional rights case against ICE and Donald (illegal acts do not get immunity and he is violating the law every minute of every day; these are NOT presidential acts; these are attempts to finish the J6 COUP; and that is how I'd phrase it). Remember the OJ Simpson case? He got off the criminal charges but he did not get off in the civil case, which is a lower burden of proof. I'd sue every ICE agent I could find and Donald in his individual private capacity as leader of the coup. RICO charges too probably.
PS. People need to start getting in the ears of the junior officers and NCOs when they're on the street. Remind each and every one of them, every hour of every day, that the jurisdiction of the UCMJ is NOT exclusive. Every soldier on Illinois streets is subject to the criminal code of Illinois.
Maybe pays to remind the Cook County State's Attorney of that as well.
Nothing I am going to say here mitigates the emergency. The crisis is real, and critical, and intended.
That said: LOOK at your photo of the Texas Guardsman arriving in Illinois. I wouldn't want to get between these guys and All-you-can-eat Tuesday at Ponderosa Steakhouse, but otherwise would not consider them particularly lethal.
Hey Jvl , just wanted to side with you on the NYT not getting argument , just read their story of us executing people in boats and the quote that enraged me was “So far, the Trump administration has acknowledged killing 32 people in the strikes, whose legality has been widely disputed by outside legal specialists.” And so they turned summarily executing civilians into a possible legal or illegal argument like something as benign as a zoning dispute( it is disputed that this breaches the zoning regulations of the neighborhood ,) it reminds me of the deal with climate change representation in the media , where instead of making the apt representation of 99 scientists who say it is fact , to the one who doesn’t into a 50/50 debate where one says it is real and the other says no , thus changing the argument to 50/50 instead of 99/1
I know I'm coming at this very late. I can't remember if I commented when it first came out, but I was rereading it this weekend, and I have some thoughts. Namely: why is it the national guard federalizations feel like crossing the Rubicon and not what's happening with ICE's ramped-up brutality?
Maybe it's not helpful to look for the One True Outrage. Legally, the federalizations are crossing a much more obvious, distinct line, and even in terms of history, the parallel is not lost on me. It's been decades since Western Civ, but as I recall Rome had a law against sending troops from one province to another, and when Caesar violated it he set off a civil war and got himself crowned emperor, which is nothing if not depressingly relevant. Even so, when I think about what's really changing America, it's these unprincipled racist thugs who saw what ICE was doing and wanted to be a part of it, not at the border but in America's streets. National Guard people are mostly pre-Trump, quite often semi-retired veterans and they signed up to protect their communities, so the ethos really does feel different, however awful the legalities.
I'm sure there are good people in ICE, too, but they're currently overwhelmed with people who have limited training and have mistaken shock and awe for true strength. If I had to choose – and again, I'm not sure why we should have to – that's the true Rubicon. It's not crossing a literal state border, but it is crossing a big line in how law enforcement is supposed to interact with the citizenry.
Then again, maybe I'm just very white and this kind of thing has been happening throughout history, recent history included, and I've just not had to see at it. But from my vantage point this all feels very new and not at all like how I was raised to believe America actually was.
Sounds like the Governor should order the Illinois National Guard to protect his citizens from vicious masked men,....
Someone has to have noticed Trumps troops alighting the truck. Pete H. better get on those men ASAP!
😂🤣😂😻
You can add to that list of perverse actions by the feds the clip of that skinny Portland girl who agents blasted full in the face with chemical:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8TKGAnE6TcU
Seems a majority of the comments on this video link think it's amusing that the non-violent protesters have been assaulted. WTF is wrong with people.
Where is the Fraternal Order of Police on that?
When I saw the word “Chipocalypse”, I first thought of China rather than Chicago. This whole thing reminds me of Tiananmen Square. The local troops from Beijing refused to fire on the protesters, so the communist leadership brought in troops from a distant rural area, who had no connection to the local population of the capital, to carry out the required violence. I suspect that Stephen Miller, if not Trump himself, was consciously following the ChiCom model in putting out a call for troops from a red state.
Thank you for covering Chicago and for including so many links to document what's going on. If anyone wants one more, here is one on religious protesters being attacked by ICE: https://religionnews.com/2025/10/07/in-chicago-clergy-and-religious-protesters-say-ice-is-threatening-their-religious-freedom/
The Illinois State Police should bust members of ICE for their illegal actions and assaults. Point out that they are handling the violence so Trump can withdraw the Texas NG.
Thank you JVL for raising the alarm. OMG.
I dunno, JVL...
I live in the Chicago suburbs and I'm watching all this stuff with great alarm. ICE was down at our public library the other day, jacking people up. They were at a local Mexican grocery store today, messing with people and threatening them. They're staying in a Holiday Inn a mile or so from my house.
It's all right frickin' here.
And I don't want to minimize the lawlessness of all of this. If the Governor of Illinois decided that Texas was violating the rights of trans kids and sent the Illinois National Guard down there to make sure some trans kid got to swim in some high school swim meet, Abbott would go bonkers, so I get it. We can't have states invading each other.
But I can't help but thinking about it this way. First, the city is peaceful and beautiful and there's stuff going on. The Cubs are doing great. The Chicago Marathon is next weekend. The leaves are changing. The weather's beautiful. People are outside, eating dinner, listening to music, kayaking on the river.
Meal Team Six is down at an old arsenal building in Elwood. They're not in Chicago. They're down near Joliet. Can't speak from experience, but I'm guessing it's a dump. The fat-asses from Texas are getting turned away from local restaurants. Chicago restauranteurs can refuse service to anyone and they are. Good for them. There's a guy that follows these clowns around playing the Darth Vader theme. They're not being harassed, but they're being made to understand they're not welcome. Want an Italian Beef sandwich? Change into civilian clothes, drop the mask, get an Uber to Portillo's and act like a decent human being. Them's the rules here. Welcome to Chicago. Enjoy. Otherwise, it's overcooked chili mac back at the arsenal barracks. You pick. (And, by the way, these dudes are living in glorified tents down there, using portable showers. It's ugly.)
There are 300 Texas Lard-Asses here. Fat Troops. What Hegseth would call, "not a good look." Clearly not adhering to the height and weight standards. No PT for these guys. A push-up might bring on a medical emergency. Yes, there have been some clashes -- not to minimize them -- but most of these douchebags are wandering around doing nothing. They're not even particularly menacing because they're so doughy.
How long's that going to continue? Aren't they going to get sick of this and want to go home? Aren't they going to get some free time and go downtown and see what this place is all about? Go native? Go down to Wrigleyville and catch Game 4 (or Game 5)? How you gonna keep them down in Texas after they've seen Chicago?
This, it seems to me, is all play-acting. It's all stupid. It's all just an attempt to goad someone into taking a swing. I don't see this turning out well for Trump or Hegseth or Abbott at all.
Ha!! so perfectly said.....wish I'd written that.
October is a nice time to be in Chicago. But if those Texans are still there in January, they might start to consider deserting . . .
Oh, yeah. Living in a tent in a Chicago winter is not what these guys were made for. Of course, when your BMI is 35, you might be insulated enough to not die. They might consider snuggling up together to keep warm...
Thank-you for covering this topic, JVL. The entire thing is illegal. Trump, Hegseth and TX Governor Abbott need to be held accountable for this.
My wife and I went to see Garbage in downtown Chicagoland. We had a blast and somehow managed not to get murdered or set on fire.
Thank you for covering this to the degree that you have. IT MATTERS that people understand the actual violence happening to our fellow human beings -- be they protesters, citizens sleeping in their beds, witnesses, media, or immigrants trying to make a life in our once welcoming nation.
ONE SMALL THING -- please comment if you are knowledgeable. What does it mean that none of those being detained are given a reason for their detention, are not being read their rights, and are not being given the right to counsel? I mean, I know in the lived sense what it means (ignoring personal rights), but what does it mean LEGALLY, lawsuit-wise, CRIMINALLY perhaps in the long run, when rights are ignored on a grand scale by specific players driving the strategy, and what does it mean CONSITUTIONALLY (assuming that document yet waves) in terms of OVERREACH.
Fantasizing for a moment that Trump is eventually defeated and the good people of the GOP come to their ever-loving senses (is there mold in the grain in Washington DC? 'cause this is feeling as surreal as Salem MA, circa 1692) -- Do the citizens who the government has extralegally abused have a case for compensation for their betrayal at the hands of a corrupt government + pain and suffering? Can the perps be sent to jail for their crimes?
Greater minds, please comment. I really want to know.
I think if nothing else every one harmed by ICE and Donald have a violation of civil and constitutional rights case against ICE and Donald (illegal acts do not get immunity and he is violating the law every minute of every day; these are NOT presidential acts; these are attempts to finish the J6 COUP; and that is how I'd phrase it). Remember the OJ Simpson case? He got off the criminal charges but he did not get off in the civil case, which is a lower burden of proof. I'd sue every ICE agent I could find and Donald in his individual private capacity as leader of the coup. RICO charges too probably.
PS. People need to start getting in the ears of the junior officers and NCOs when they're on the street. Remind each and every one of them, every hour of every day, that the jurisdiction of the UCMJ is NOT exclusive. Every soldier on Illinois streets is subject to the criminal code of Illinois.
Maybe pays to remind the Cook County State's Attorney of that as well.
Nothing I am going to say here mitigates the emergency. The crisis is real, and critical, and intended.
That said: LOOK at your photo of the Texas Guardsman arriving in Illinois. I wouldn't want to get between these guys and All-you-can-eat Tuesday at Ponderosa Steakhouse, but otherwise would not consider them particularly lethal.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪