"Also, it's worth noting that the last party to be told that they needed to reverse course was the GOP after Romney, they doubled down, and won."
The Trump-era GOP has been perceived as more *moderate* than the Romney-era GOP, actually. Why? It was seen as less economically right-wing (more skeptical of free trade, and Trump explicitly pr…
"Also, it's worth noting that the last party to be told that they needed to reverse course was the GOP after Romney, they doubled down, and won."
The Trump-era GOP has been perceived as more *moderate* than the Romney-era GOP, actually. Why? It was seen as less economically right-wing (more skeptical of free trade, and Trump explicitly promised to not cut Social Security and Medicare, something that sank Bush in his 2nd term as well as McCain/Romney), less hawkish in foreign policy, and less religious-coded.
What it was “seen as” has definitely not turned out to be what it actually IS. Trump is not economically conservative (blowing up the debt/deficit, huge tariffs) he’s not less hawkish, he’s more (belligerent, threatening) & he is hugely religious-coded!! Trump himself isn’t religious at all, but he’s great at pretending, & now we have rabid ChristoFascists running our lives.
"Trump is not economically conservative" - That's his entire appeal! The only part that's unpopular is the tariffs, and that only because of the price increases.
"he’s not less hawkish" - He didn't talk about Canada and Greenland during the campaign, so at the time of the election, he was seen as less hawkish as compared to the Dems, who according to median voters got the US "involved in 2 wars" (Ukraine and Gaza).
"he is hugely religious-coded" - Lol, no. Not even most of his own supporters actually believe he's religious. The evangelicals vote for him because "evangelical" is a political identity, not a religious one, and they have no God separate from MAGA (this is not the case for, say, mainline Protestants, Catholics, or even Mormons, even if many of those voted for him as well). He hardly ever talks about LGB people, and loudly repudiated the extremist pro-lifers when he refused to support a national abortion ban and vowed to leave abortion to the states. Everyone, including his own supporters, knows he's a womanizer. In fact, that actually helps him - nobody believes that he'll ban something that he personally benefited from.
Oh, they know he's a liar. It actually helps him. They (median voters, not the hardcore MAGA base) assume that he won't do what he says he's going to do, which is how they rationalize voting for him. I hear a lot of "oh, he'd never do that, it's just a bluff/negotiating tactic/a joke/exaggerating to make a point", but they think he's "directionally correct", in the sense that they want things to move more in his direction, under the assumption that it won't go too far because Trump always lies and exaggerates. And his first term basically cemented that image, as he didn't fulfill most of his most outlandish promises. People vote for him more because they're dissatisfied with things under the Dems and want to send a message to them. As for the democracy stuff? Again, so outlandish voters don't believe it, and since elections proceeded as normal last time...
Well, those “Oh he’ll never do that” voters are in the find out stage now!!
Oh, he’s not going to deport my tia, or my wife, she’s been here 20 yrs, she works, & pays taxes; he’s only going to deport the bad ones, the criminals. I sure hope they see how very wrong they were.
Believe me, I know about trump voters, my entire family are them!! Except for 1 nephew & his wife. It’s almost impossible for me to talk to them, because I just want to scream.
I don't like, or use, the word "moderate." The MAGA cult is certainly less conservative than the GOP of old, in terms of economics, defense and law-and-order. But it is unabashedly *authoritarian*. Many voters want just that, and many others don't know or care what MAGA stands for as long as it "owns the libs."
I don't know that this is true. It's more that Trump is someone who voters impose their preferences on. So he himself appears to be whatever they want him to be. But the party is not less radical. It's more. It just has a standard bearer who lots of voters place their ideas on.
It's more radical in the sense that Trump is more willing to break democracy and institutional norms, but Trump isn't coded as particularly radical in terms of *policies*.
"Deporting US Citizens" - never mentioned in the campaign
"Appointing judges to overturn Roe v Wade" - ...followed by loud, repeated denunciations of a national abortion ban and a promise to keep abortion a state issue.
"Abandoning Ukraine" - not particularly radical according to voters, and not salient.
"Corporate tax cuts" - Not terrible policy, actually. The previous rate was too high.
"Muslim ban" - Not mentioned in the campaign this time, and was reasonably popular back when it was mentioned.
He codes as socially moderate because of his own womanizing and his lack of religiosity (you rarely see him mention LGB people, and his stances on trans people are popular), and the public is outright hostile to immigration at this point, so all the hardcore anti-immigrant stuff isn't particularly considered radical.
Corporate tax cuts are horrible policy!! It was started in the Reagan admin & his asinine trickle down economics & the middle class has been gutted ever since. This country thrived & grew the middle class when corporate & wealthy tax rates were 50% or higher, & we didn’t have these massive monopolies with a chokehold on all of us. NO, no more tax cuts for the wealthy, increasing the tax rate on them is hugely popular except among the 900 or so of those super wealthy. Now we have corruption in govt equal to Russia.
If you actually learned economics (I have a degree in it) instead of spouting talking points from Robert Reich, you'd know that corporate taxes (much like tariffs!) typically get passed down to consumers, and the median American is making more money and enjoys a higher standard of living (even after adjusting for inflation!) than ever.
"Also, it's worth noting that the last party to be told that they needed to reverse course was the GOP after Romney, they doubled down, and won."
The Trump-era GOP has been perceived as more *moderate* than the Romney-era GOP, actually. Why? It was seen as less economically right-wing (more skeptical of free trade, and Trump explicitly promised to not cut Social Security and Medicare, something that sank Bush in his 2nd term as well as McCain/Romney), less hawkish in foreign policy, and less religious-coded.
But it doubled down on racism, sexism, xenophobia, and all-around dickishness. And they’re corrupt as f*ck.
What it was “seen as” has definitely not turned out to be what it actually IS. Trump is not economically conservative (blowing up the debt/deficit, huge tariffs) he’s not less hawkish, he’s more (belligerent, threatening) & he is hugely religious-coded!! Trump himself isn’t religious at all, but he’s great at pretending, & now we have rabid ChristoFascists running our lives.
"Trump is not economically conservative" - That's his entire appeal! The only part that's unpopular is the tariffs, and that only because of the price increases.
"he’s not less hawkish" - He didn't talk about Canada and Greenland during the campaign, so at the time of the election, he was seen as less hawkish as compared to the Dems, who according to median voters got the US "involved in 2 wars" (Ukraine and Gaza).
"he is hugely religious-coded" - Lol, no. Not even most of his own supporters actually believe he's religious. The evangelicals vote for him because "evangelical" is a political identity, not a religious one, and they have no God separate from MAGA (this is not the case for, say, mainline Protestants, Catholics, or even Mormons, even if many of those voted for him as well). He hardly ever talks about LGB people, and loudly repudiated the extremist pro-lifers when he refused to support a national abortion ban and vowed to leave abortion to the states. Everyone, including his own supporters, knows he's a womanizer. In fact, that actually helps him - nobody believes that he'll ban something that he personally benefited from.
So basically he’s a liar, & they don’t care that he’s a liar, he’s also the most corrupt president in modern history.
Oh, they know he's a liar. It actually helps him. They (median voters, not the hardcore MAGA base) assume that he won't do what he says he's going to do, which is how they rationalize voting for him. I hear a lot of "oh, he'd never do that, it's just a bluff/negotiating tactic/a joke/exaggerating to make a point", but they think he's "directionally correct", in the sense that they want things to move more in his direction, under the assumption that it won't go too far because Trump always lies and exaggerates. And his first term basically cemented that image, as he didn't fulfill most of his most outlandish promises. People vote for him more because they're dissatisfied with things under the Dems and want to send a message to them. As for the democracy stuff? Again, so outlandish voters don't believe it, and since elections proceeded as normal last time...
Well, those “Oh he’ll never do that” voters are in the find out stage now!!
Oh, he’s not going to deport my tia, or my wife, she’s been here 20 yrs, she works, & pays taxes; he’s only going to deport the bad ones, the criminals. I sure hope they see how very wrong they were.
Believe me, I know about trump voters, my entire family are them!! Except for 1 nephew & his wife. It’s almost impossible for me to talk to them, because I just want to scream.
I don't like, or use, the word "moderate." The MAGA cult is certainly less conservative than the GOP of old, in terms of economics, defense and law-and-order. But it is unabashedly *authoritarian*. Many voters want just that, and many others don't know or care what MAGA stands for as long as it "owns the libs."
People heard what they wanted to hear when they listened to Trump. There wasn't anything moderate about Trump in 2016, 2020 or 2024.
I don't know that this is true. It's more that Trump is someone who voters impose their preferences on. So he himself appears to be whatever they want him to be. But the party is not less radical. It's more. It just has a standard bearer who lots of voters place their ideas on.
It's more radical in the sense that Trump is more willing to break democracy and institutional norms, but Trump isn't coded as particularly radical in terms of *policies*.
Deporting US Citizens? Corporate tax cuts? Appointing judges to overturn Roe v Wade? Remember the Muslim ban? Abandoning Ukraine?
It's not as if his policy objectives have been 'moderate'. As others have pointed out, voters believe what they want to believe about his policies.
"Deporting US Citizens" - never mentioned in the campaign
"Appointing judges to overturn Roe v Wade" - ...followed by loud, repeated denunciations of a national abortion ban and a promise to keep abortion a state issue.
"Abandoning Ukraine" - not particularly radical according to voters, and not salient.
"Corporate tax cuts" - Not terrible policy, actually. The previous rate was too high.
"Muslim ban" - Not mentioned in the campaign this time, and was reasonably popular back when it was mentioned.
He codes as socially moderate because of his own womanizing and his lack of religiosity (you rarely see him mention LGB people, and his stances on trans people are popular), and the public is outright hostile to immigration at this point, so all the hardcore anti-immigrant stuff isn't particularly considered radical.
Corporate tax cuts are horrible policy!! It was started in the Reagan admin & his asinine trickle down economics & the middle class has been gutted ever since. This country thrived & grew the middle class when corporate & wealthy tax rates were 50% or higher, & we didn’t have these massive monopolies with a chokehold on all of us. NO, no more tax cuts for the wealthy, increasing the tax rate on them is hugely popular except among the 900 or so of those super wealthy. Now we have corruption in govt equal to Russia.
If you actually learned economics (I have a degree in it) instead of spouting talking points from Robert Reich, you'd know that corporate taxes (much like tariffs!) typically get passed down to consumers, and the median American is making more money and enjoys a higher standard of living (even after adjusting for inflation!) than ever.