This is, of course, correct. But there needs to be an awareness of what these America firsters want—their values matter. If they care about being taken care of to the harm of others, that is a message I cannot support. If they applaud as trans people get treated poorly by our own government, they can sit alone.
I really love the sentiment and practicality of this essay and that it's from Tim. He should write more (and at the same time, do more Potato Boys pods). Also, the commenters are alot different than what I usually see in JVL's Triads. Just goes to show how big a tent the Bulwark is. Kinda like the Dems, but bigger, maybe?
"Redeemable" albeit ultimately? If these citizens were told that Elvis had arrived on a flying saucer and was here to make anything great again, they would vote for him.
There is no room for science denialism or bigotry of any form under our tent. Basic truth and civil rights are not up for debate. Sorry if you think COVID-19 was just the flu and that mRNA vaccines don't work. You're wrong, and your voice doesn't deserve to be heard. Sorry if you think trans people are all sexual perverts and immigrants are all rapists. You're wrong, and your voice doesn't deserve to be heard.
Would it help if we said "Americans first" instead of "America first"?
I would posit that the elevation of the "good of the nation" over the "good of the population" is a hallmark of fascism...
(Not that I'm objecting to a JFK-style "Ask not..." perspective, but for right now, maybe we'd all like lower gas prices in lieu of some illusory "American hotness"...)
The Trump crime family clearly defines the interests of "America" as identical to the interests of the Trumps and their openly grifting circle of fellow fascists (I seriously considered changing that to "fellatio fascists", but but hate to impugn anyone's legitimate habits...discretion and all that...oops).
Seems like if you're not a Trump, or a Kushner, or a Zuckerberg, or a Bezos, or a Bessner, or a bug-eyed FBI director, this administration doesn't give a shit if you get the shaft. We're encouraged to just suck it up and meditate on the benefits to big oil (apologies to Leslie Charteris).
Yes, then we'll have to engage in the inevitable internal acrimony about who is and who isn't an "American"...but if the government isn't here to serve the interests of the people, what's it here for?
(Me, personally, I'd argue for the broadest possible definition...shadows of Reagan's "if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here"--don't agree with a lot of Reaganism, but he (or Peggy Noonan's succesor) got that right. I think we'd need to recognize that to reap the benefits of being an American, one has to be operating inside the rules, but no more snatching and deporting law-abiding citizen wannabes when they show up for their court dates.)
And that will take some working out--but I think the first step is an explicit acknowledgement that the government of the United States of America is here to serve Americans, not to chase some 80s obsessed idiot real estate serial failure's blurry demented vision of national "hotness", or to put money in the pockets of his moron sons and crooked cronies.
We argue and disagree about policy and priorities and approaches all the time within our own political sphere. Whether you self identify as a progressive or liberal or moderate (ooops, I mean centrist) or even small c conservative Democrat. We can all find something to piss each other off about but there is one huge orange elephant in the room deal breaker. So if we can agree on that let’s join hands and fuck the fascists and then we can all go back to fighting amongst ourselves when it is safe to do so.
Sorry, but I can't buy it. I refuse to believe Tim or George would cower, especially over something so 'trivial.' And you might notice that their use of those names is certainly the exception. Hardly anyone else, R's excepted, use those references.
I’d welcome anyone who voted for Trump and either stayed home or voted Democrat. I knew that of course, in time, they would feel the hurt and realize he never gave a shit about them in the first place. I’m sick of the majority of my taxes going to subsidize oil companies and the military industrial complex as well as the destruction of infrastructure and lives in our country’s name and deeds. I’m for America first in that we should have universal healthcare and education for all-not based on where they live. USAID is America first in that its humanitarian actions changes lives and attitudes toward a nation that has continually interfered with regime change for decades if not centuries. Rational and humanitarian decisions must be the focus for the 21st century rather than fear-mongering and otherwise. Spoiled Americans will not replace immigrants who work the most difficult and disgusting work to get a foothold here for a better life and are escaping brutality and famine in their countries of origin. Fake news and the ridiculous amount of money in politics have added to the distrust of government. Democrats should not change their values to bring these folks in. They must continue to offer sound programs and educate young people in any ways they can be reached. States can individually make laws that deny Citizens United. Hawaii lawmakers of both parties have put forth a bill to do that this session. All these Democratic or progressive PACS need to wind down, give up their jobs and focus on uniting with the Democratic Party to rid ourselves of this corruption. A 21st revision must take place to control the Supreme Court who got there by McConnell’s cheating and allow Senators to be reflected by population instead of states. (Maybe the attack on the pope and Trump’s depicting himself and the second coming of Christ will stick a burr on the buttocks of the six of nine “judges” who claim Catholicism as their religion.
No election denying idiots that believe 2020 was stolen. They are too dumb to accept. They will fly to the next moronic conspiracy claim. Like chem trails. Or flat earth. Or Buttigieg is an alien.
Well said, Tim. I needed to hear this today, and will be re-reading before every family gathering and public function I go to for the foreseeable future. Many thanks!
"These disaffected voters thought that the political class in both parties had screwed them over. That our leaders cared more about their donor friends and corporate interests and Georgetown cocktail parties than they cared about the average Joe or Jayden."
If this argument describes the true state of reality and the actual thinking of these voters, I'd be on board with it. And maybe it's right. Maybe I'm just too cynical. But what I see is something else.
I don't perceive that these types of voters resent rich donors, corporate interests, and Georgetown cocktail parties at all. If they even bring those interests up, it's approvingly, often enviously, but never (and I do mean NEVER--I've personally never seen this) with contempt or hatred directed at that class.
Instead, they resent THEIR OWN NEIGHBORS (and ex-friends, and frequently even family) who they perceive to have "taken" something that they thought was their own exclusive right to have. We can make a whole list of what that something might be, and it'll vary with each person, of course. For some it's racial privilege. For a lot of young men, it's the idea that they are entitled to a girlfriend or wife simply because they want one. I'm a scientist who's well past the age of being of sexual interest to the bros, so what I perceive most strongly is a middle-school dynamic in adults, the resentment directed at "smart kids." And it's not even economic resentment, because most of the people I've met who are most guilty of it are doing pretty well. I live on the coast, so most of them I come across have boats (and I don't mean little fishing boats). They're not hurting economically. What they resent is the fact that they think "the smart kids" have outsized influence in the world of ideas. Covid is a huge factor in it; they still rant about Fauci and sneer at vaccines even to their own doctors. They attack their local TV meteorologist on Facebook with accusations of lying about climate change and/or "weather modification" or for getting one day's forecast two degrees wrong (or cutting into the big game with a tornado warning when the tornado doesn't strike their exact house). Or going to parent-teacher meetings and fighting with the teachers who attempt to instruct their kids because they don't like something in the history books. Etc. These kinds of people aren't going after wealthy, well-connected, moneyed interests. They're going after the person down the street.
Now, a big, yuuuge caveat to the above: I live in the Deep South. This particular region has a long, foul, and bloody history of resentful people turning against their own neighbors. As others on the Bulwark have pointed out, the Deep South is different in that it doesn't have the same democratic tradition of the rest of the U.S., but has long functioned as an authoritarian one-party state. It may be that what Tim sees actually does occur elsewhere, and that the people who feel the way he describes are more numerous and more gettable.
Really important writing. I honestly think we have to get ourselves out of this moment, away from this buffoon, and one day, history itself will impose the remorse and guilt that we long to see in those who have followed him. Having to justify one's belief in this movement will be incredibly difficult and shaming.
You are so right that we have to welcome those who have been harmed by, or having second thoughts about, this regime. I think of my son and how our conversations have become superficial; this was not always the case. Last Friday Parker Palmer wrote on his substack a letter called Mercy Now. The sentiment is just right and fits well with your writing today.
This is, of course, correct. But there needs to be an awareness of what these America firsters want—their values matter. If they care about being taken care of to the harm of others, that is a message I cannot support. If they applaud as trans people get treated poorly by our own government, they can sit alone.
I really love the sentiment and practicality of this essay and that it's from Tim. He should write more (and at the same time, do more Potato Boys pods). Also, the commenters are alot different than what I usually see in JVL's Triads. Just goes to show how big a tent the Bulwark is. Kinda like the Dems, but bigger, maybe?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP USING THE NAMES LINCOLN-KENNEDY CENTER & DEPARTMENT OF WAR. PLEASE.....
"Redeemable" albeit ultimately? If these citizens were told that Elvis had arrived on a flying saucer and was here to make anything great again, they would vote for him.
Great idea!
There is no room for science denialism or bigotry of any form under our tent. Basic truth and civil rights are not up for debate. Sorry if you think COVID-19 was just the flu and that mRNA vaccines don't work. You're wrong, and your voice doesn't deserve to be heard. Sorry if you think trans people are all sexual perverts and immigrants are all rapists. You're wrong, and your voice doesn't deserve to be heard.
Would it help if we said "Americans first" instead of "America first"?
I would posit that the elevation of the "good of the nation" over the "good of the population" is a hallmark of fascism...
(Not that I'm objecting to a JFK-style "Ask not..." perspective, but for right now, maybe we'd all like lower gas prices in lieu of some illusory "American hotness"...)
The Trump crime family clearly defines the interests of "America" as identical to the interests of the Trumps and their openly grifting circle of fellow fascists (I seriously considered changing that to "fellatio fascists", but but hate to impugn anyone's legitimate habits...discretion and all that...oops).
Seems like if you're not a Trump, or a Kushner, or a Zuckerberg, or a Bezos, or a Bessner, or a bug-eyed FBI director, this administration doesn't give a shit if you get the shaft. We're encouraged to just suck it up and meditate on the benefits to big oil (apologies to Leslie Charteris).
Yes, then we'll have to engage in the inevitable internal acrimony about who is and who isn't an "American"...but if the government isn't here to serve the interests of the people, what's it here for?
(Me, personally, I'd argue for the broadest possible definition...shadows of Reagan's "if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here"--don't agree with a lot of Reaganism, but he (or Peggy Noonan's succesor) got that right. I think we'd need to recognize that to reap the benefits of being an American, one has to be operating inside the rules, but no more snatching and deporting law-abiding citizen wannabes when they show up for their court dates.)
And that will take some working out--but I think the first step is an explicit acknowledgement that the government of the United States of America is here to serve Americans, not to chase some 80s obsessed idiot real estate serial failure's blurry demented vision of national "hotness", or to put money in the pockets of his moron sons and crooked cronies.
We argue and disagree about policy and priorities and approaches all the time within our own political sphere. Whether you self identify as a progressive or liberal or moderate (ooops, I mean centrist) or even small c conservative Democrat. We can all find something to piss each other off about but there is one huge orange elephant in the room deal breaker. So if we can agree on that let’s join hands and fuck the fascists and then we can all go back to fighting amongst ourselves when it is safe to do so.
Sorry, but I can't buy it. I refuse to believe Tim or George would cower, especially over something so 'trivial.' And you might notice that their use of those names is certainly the exception. Hardly anyone else, R's excepted, use those references.
I’d welcome anyone who voted for Trump and either stayed home or voted Democrat. I knew that of course, in time, they would feel the hurt and realize he never gave a shit about them in the first place. I’m sick of the majority of my taxes going to subsidize oil companies and the military industrial complex as well as the destruction of infrastructure and lives in our country’s name and deeds. I’m for America first in that we should have universal healthcare and education for all-not based on where they live. USAID is America first in that its humanitarian actions changes lives and attitudes toward a nation that has continually interfered with regime change for decades if not centuries. Rational and humanitarian decisions must be the focus for the 21st century rather than fear-mongering and otherwise. Spoiled Americans will not replace immigrants who work the most difficult and disgusting work to get a foothold here for a better life and are escaping brutality and famine in their countries of origin. Fake news and the ridiculous amount of money in politics have added to the distrust of government. Democrats should not change their values to bring these folks in. They must continue to offer sound programs and educate young people in any ways they can be reached. States can individually make laws that deny Citizens United. Hawaii lawmakers of both parties have put forth a bill to do that this session. All these Democratic or progressive PACS need to wind down, give up their jobs and focus on uniting with the Democratic Party to rid ourselves of this corruption. A 21st revision must take place to control the Supreme Court who got there by McConnell’s cheating and allow Senators to be reflected by population instead of states. (Maybe the attack on the pope and Trump’s depicting himself and the second coming of Christ will stick a burr on the buttocks of the six of nine “judges” who claim Catholicism as their religion.
No election denying idiots that believe 2020 was stolen. They are too dumb to accept. They will fly to the next moronic conspiracy claim. Like chem trails. Or flat earth. Or Buttigieg is an alien.
Well said, Tim. I needed to hear this today, and will be re-reading before every family gathering and public function I go to for the foreseeable future. Many thanks!
"These disaffected voters thought that the political class in both parties had screwed them over. That our leaders cared more about their donor friends and corporate interests and Georgetown cocktail parties than they cared about the average Joe or Jayden."
If this argument describes the true state of reality and the actual thinking of these voters, I'd be on board with it. And maybe it's right. Maybe I'm just too cynical. But what I see is something else.
I don't perceive that these types of voters resent rich donors, corporate interests, and Georgetown cocktail parties at all. If they even bring those interests up, it's approvingly, often enviously, but never (and I do mean NEVER--I've personally never seen this) with contempt or hatred directed at that class.
Instead, they resent THEIR OWN NEIGHBORS (and ex-friends, and frequently even family) who they perceive to have "taken" something that they thought was their own exclusive right to have. We can make a whole list of what that something might be, and it'll vary with each person, of course. For some it's racial privilege. For a lot of young men, it's the idea that they are entitled to a girlfriend or wife simply because they want one. I'm a scientist who's well past the age of being of sexual interest to the bros, so what I perceive most strongly is a middle-school dynamic in adults, the resentment directed at "smart kids." And it's not even economic resentment, because most of the people I've met who are most guilty of it are doing pretty well. I live on the coast, so most of them I come across have boats (and I don't mean little fishing boats). They're not hurting economically. What they resent is the fact that they think "the smart kids" have outsized influence in the world of ideas. Covid is a huge factor in it; they still rant about Fauci and sneer at vaccines even to their own doctors. They attack their local TV meteorologist on Facebook with accusations of lying about climate change and/or "weather modification" or for getting one day's forecast two degrees wrong (or cutting into the big game with a tornado warning when the tornado doesn't strike their exact house). Or going to parent-teacher meetings and fighting with the teachers who attempt to instruct their kids because they don't like something in the history books. Etc. These kinds of people aren't going after wealthy, well-connected, moneyed interests. They're going after the person down the street.
Now, a big, yuuuge caveat to the above: I live in the Deep South. This particular region has a long, foul, and bloody history of resentful people turning against their own neighbors. As others on the Bulwark have pointed out, the Deep South is different in that it doesn't have the same democratic tradition of the rest of the U.S., but has long functioned as an authoritarian one-party state. It may be that what Tim sees actually does occur elsewhere, and that the people who feel the way he describes are more numerous and more gettable.
Really important writing. I honestly think we have to get ourselves out of this moment, away from this buffoon, and one day, history itself will impose the remorse and guilt that we long to see in those who have followed him. Having to justify one's belief in this movement will be incredibly difficult and shaming.
You are so right that we have to welcome those who have been harmed by, or having second thoughts about, this regime. I think of my son and how our conversations have become superficial; this was not always the case. Last Friday Parker Palmer wrote on his substack a letter called Mercy Now. The sentiment is just right and fits well with your writing today.
Yes to this and yes to Steve Winogradsky’s idea of “Americans First”!