i notice people don't like trumps metaphores but understanding them gets you an inroad to fighting him and his autocracy plan, he says as presidet his imposing tarriffs is the same as ihim setting competetive prices in his business to reflect the qualtiy of work being produced. so to countermand that you say yes but we aren't birdstroms we are the salvation army store. asian markets in Japan and korea are bergstroms and Europe is neiman marcus that will if not get to trump it will get to his base which is who we are trying to reach and pull them from their God King. but if you insult thier way of seeing the world you lose on all counts and have them back trump even more
JD is sort of the opposite of charismatic. Anything he has, politically, was handed to him by his patrons. When Trump shuffles off this mortal coil, JD will not be the one replacing him. There will be a concerted effort by his patrons to do this (because they literally own this guy and without them he would be nothing, politically), but the crowd (cult) has no love for him.
I do not think that JD is able to perform the role. He is not an entertainer. Trump is primarily an entertainer. The next leader will need to be an entertainer. I cannot currently see who that person will be, because there are so many people jockeying for that position and a lot of that struggle is submerged/hidden behind the Trump Show.
Just got home from the Chicago show! It was awesome and made me love you three even more. Didn’t think that was possible! And Adam was stellar! Loved your tshirt.
Haven't read all 430+ comments but the focus seems to be on the wrestling comparison and Mao.
Can I just question JVL (gasp!) about "the inside game" - attaining power by mastering the elites à la Mitch McConnell?
What's Mitch's power today?
No question, the inside game existED in the Republican party. Is that a path someone could pursue in the current Trumpist version of the party? Honestly wondering if what I always called the country club Republicans can land seats in DC anymore. Sure, mayor or governor - people who actually have to run things, pave some roads, meet a budget. But DC politics? Does that 20th century inside game still get your there? I dunno...
JVL, this piece is just so good, and it truly helps my cracked heart. I’m going to dig back through all The Triads that I didn’t read for some more pure gold. Thank you.
I followed through and read the Pavlou piece. I can agree with some points about the similarities between the dangerous kind of group think Trump has inspired and movements like the Maoists.
Overall though I think the comparison of Trumpism to these nonwestern movements is a pretty surface level comparison and not really that helpful. Pavlou is ignoring some pretty important realities of how groups like the Maoists or Khemer Rouge took power and instituted their revolutions. They did so via force in massively unstable political and economic environments. The imposition of Mao's cult of personality came about because it was pretty clearly backed up by the barrel of a gun.
MAGA was voted in against a comparatively stable political and economic environment. Pavlou brings up things like "Juche economics" or embraces of fringe health practices as though MAGA has imported these "post-colonial" ideologies to the detriment of western society. I would argue that much of what MAGA argues isn't imported at all. Tariffs and the debate between free trade vs protectionism has a very long history in the US. I would agree that MAGA has embraced protectionism, tariffs, and the idea of temporary austerity in a way that is nonsensical, but to call it "Juche" is kind of silly. If I had to give Trump's economic theory a name, it would be McKinleyism, not Maoism. The nativism that beats at the heart of the Trump movement is also nothing new to the American political landscape.
Also since Pavlou seems to want a leftist to get mad at him for committing cultural essentialism I'll try my best to muster up some indignation. Once again, anti-vaxxing and fringe health theories aren't exactly imports to the American market place of ideas. The latest fringe health trend might have its origins in something non-western, but the rationalizations the people trying them use isn't a third world import. It's homegrown idiocy I'm pretty sure every society deal with.
As for this observation of a "core-periphery dynamic" that helped bring Trump to power. Rural American holding outsized voting power for their relative populations isn't news. It's a pretty well known bug (or feature if you win) of the electoral college. Trump lied his way into having the better bona fides of a populist. Populism typically does well in rural and agrarian area. The populist movements of the late 1800s trace their much of their origins to rural and agrarian America. I feel like this "core-periphery" assessment kind of scapegoats rural America. Trump also won because the mainstream of the core GOP pretty happily embraced him to win over the periphery. In the latest election Trump made gains across the board rural and urban. You can find a few examples where the core could have excised Trump and MAGA and chose not to. To me "the core-periphery dynamic" of MAGA is a uniquely American ouroboros eating the shit it spawns out of American made media and social media platforms.
So yes, while I can note and agree with some of the obvious parallels to movements like Mao, I think we have to think a bit differently about MAGA. How MAGA weaponizes existing patterns of American thought and tradition to get people to willingly vote against a whole host of other American values and traditions.
I appreciated the article of Trumpism as Maoist. I think it is slightly hyperbolic, and thankfully only 20-30% of the population are true believers, which will hopefully keep us from experiencing true catastrophe. My cynical hope in these insane times is there is still actually a 'deep state oligarchy' that cares enough about the American economy making them rich to get the cabinet or congress to boot Trump to the curb some point before then. It's the advantage we have over 3rd world revolutions - most of us have much more to lose.
"Douthat’s 'Never Trump' pose is roughly equivalent to Glenn Greenwald’s, only less principled. He is formally against Donald Trump, while simultaneously supporting Trump and all his works and opposing every force that would stop Trumpism.
"Say what you will about Greenwald, but at least he has the honesty to ply his wares on Fox instead of taking the NYT’s money to act as a fifth column against liberal democracy."
This is the most withering footnote analysis I have read in ages. It sums up Douthat with more restraint and politeness than most of us would be able to muster, while maintaining complete accuracy. "Subscribe to The Bulwark: even the footnotes are smarter than traditional media."
Vance is as interesting as a dried used dish sponge. He is the awkward little round boy in the classroom. He gravely lacks social skills and political decorum. Why hasn’t anyone explored the potential sexual relationship between Peter Thiel and JD Vance? C’mon! Vance, a college boy with naturally lined blue eyes approaches a powerful speaker at his school and tells him
He wants to be like him and Thiel just hands him money? What’s the back story? The love affair? The P Diddy story behind this sudden interest of Thiel in Vance?
Yes, this was absolutely as good as it gets - or has gotten! Not only the Vance stuff but the Mao story excerpt and link. Why I am a subscriber :^)
One factor left out of the analysis of Honky Tonk Man's failure: Elvis was not honky tonk. Hank Williams, Ernest Tubb, George Jones, not Elvis.
Personally, I think that the Leonard Leo schism is going to be both Trump and JD Vance's downfall.
i notice people don't like trumps metaphores but understanding them gets you an inroad to fighting him and his autocracy plan, he says as presidet his imposing tarriffs is the same as ihim setting competetive prices in his business to reflect the qualtiy of work being produced. so to countermand that you say yes but we aren't birdstroms we are the salvation army store. asian markets in Japan and korea are bergstroms and Europe is neiman marcus that will if not get to trump it will get to his base which is who we are trying to reach and pull them from their God King. but if you insult thier way of seeing the world you lose on all counts and have them back trump even more
Chef's kiss perfection.
Never followed WWR, but sure enjoyed this piece. I’m always amazed at your breath and depth in so many topics, JVL!
JD is sort of the opposite of charismatic. Anything he has, politically, was handed to him by his patrons. When Trump shuffles off this mortal coil, JD will not be the one replacing him. There will be a concerted effort by his patrons to do this (because they literally own this guy and without them he would be nothing, politically), but the crowd (cult) has no love for him.
I do not think that JD is able to perform the role. He is not an entertainer. Trump is primarily an entertainer. The next leader will need to be an entertainer. I cannot currently see who that person will be, because there are so many people jockeying for that position and a lot of that struggle is submerged/hidden behind the Trump Show.
Just got home from the Chicago show! It was awesome and made me love you three even more. Didn’t think that was possible! And Adam was stellar! Loved your tshirt.
Haven't read all 430+ comments but the focus seems to be on the wrestling comparison and Mao.
Can I just question JVL (gasp!) about "the inside game" - attaining power by mastering the elites à la Mitch McConnell?
What's Mitch's power today?
No question, the inside game existED in the Republican party. Is that a path someone could pursue in the current Trumpist version of the party? Honestly wondering if what I always called the country club Republicans can land seats in DC anymore. Sure, mayor or governor - people who actually have to run things, pave some roads, meet a budget. But DC politics? Does that 20th century inside game still get your there? I dunno...
I have a ticket for tonight’s Chicago show, I can’t make it. Message me and it’s yours!
JVL, this piece is just so good, and it truly helps my cracked heart. I’m going to dig back through all The Triads that I didn’t read for some more pure gold. Thank you.
Agree, JVL. Vance aint likeable. Not just by the libs. But by MAGA. And I watched the RNC. They don't like Usha. Not atall.
I followed through and read the Pavlou piece. I can agree with some points about the similarities between the dangerous kind of group think Trump has inspired and movements like the Maoists.
Overall though I think the comparison of Trumpism to these nonwestern movements is a pretty surface level comparison and not really that helpful. Pavlou is ignoring some pretty important realities of how groups like the Maoists or Khemer Rouge took power and instituted their revolutions. They did so via force in massively unstable political and economic environments. The imposition of Mao's cult of personality came about because it was pretty clearly backed up by the barrel of a gun.
MAGA was voted in against a comparatively stable political and economic environment. Pavlou brings up things like "Juche economics" or embraces of fringe health practices as though MAGA has imported these "post-colonial" ideologies to the detriment of western society. I would argue that much of what MAGA argues isn't imported at all. Tariffs and the debate between free trade vs protectionism has a very long history in the US. I would agree that MAGA has embraced protectionism, tariffs, and the idea of temporary austerity in a way that is nonsensical, but to call it "Juche" is kind of silly. If I had to give Trump's economic theory a name, it would be McKinleyism, not Maoism. The nativism that beats at the heart of the Trump movement is also nothing new to the American political landscape.
Also since Pavlou seems to want a leftist to get mad at him for committing cultural essentialism I'll try my best to muster up some indignation. Once again, anti-vaxxing and fringe health theories aren't exactly imports to the American market place of ideas. The latest fringe health trend might have its origins in something non-western, but the rationalizations the people trying them use isn't a third world import. It's homegrown idiocy I'm pretty sure every society deal with.
As for this observation of a "core-periphery dynamic" that helped bring Trump to power. Rural American holding outsized voting power for their relative populations isn't news. It's a pretty well known bug (or feature if you win) of the electoral college. Trump lied his way into having the better bona fides of a populist. Populism typically does well in rural and agrarian area. The populist movements of the late 1800s trace their much of their origins to rural and agrarian America. I feel like this "core-periphery" assessment kind of scapegoats rural America. Trump also won because the mainstream of the core GOP pretty happily embraced him to win over the periphery. In the latest election Trump made gains across the board rural and urban. You can find a few examples where the core could have excised Trump and MAGA and chose not to. To me "the core-periphery dynamic" of MAGA is a uniquely American ouroboros eating the shit it spawns out of American made media and social media platforms.
So yes, while I can note and agree with some of the obvious parallels to movements like Mao, I think we have to think a bit differently about MAGA. How MAGA weaponizes existing patterns of American thought and tradition to get people to willingly vote against a whole host of other American values and traditions.
Another reason I hate wrestling.
I appreciated the article of Trumpism as Maoist. I think it is slightly hyperbolic, and thankfully only 20-30% of the population are true believers, which will hopefully keep us from experiencing true catastrophe. My cynical hope in these insane times is there is still actually a 'deep state oligarchy' that cares enough about the American economy making them rich to get the cabinet or congress to boot Trump to the curb some point before then. It's the advantage we have over 3rd world revolutions - most of us have much more to lose.
"Douthat’s 'Never Trump' pose is roughly equivalent to Glenn Greenwald’s, only less principled. He is formally against Donald Trump, while simultaneously supporting Trump and all his works and opposing every force that would stop Trumpism.
"Say what you will about Greenwald, but at least he has the honesty to ply his wares on Fox instead of taking the NYT’s money to act as a fifth column against liberal democracy."
This is the most withering footnote analysis I have read in ages. It sums up Douthat with more restraint and politeness than most of us would be able to muster, while maintaining complete accuracy. "Subscribe to The Bulwark: even the footnotes are smarter than traditional media."
Vance is as interesting as a dried used dish sponge. He is the awkward little round boy in the classroom. He gravely lacks social skills and political decorum. Why hasn’t anyone explored the potential sexual relationship between Peter Thiel and JD Vance? C’mon! Vance, a college boy with naturally lined blue eyes approaches a powerful speaker at his school and tells him
He wants to be like him and Thiel just hands him money? What’s the back story? The love affair? The P Diddy story behind this sudden interest of Thiel in Vance?
From what I have read, his contributions while working for Thiel's company were not impressive... So perhaps there is something to that.