Hmmm I understand your point of view and viscerally I agree. However, I don’t think it works in the Democratic Party. I am an ex Republican and I started to transition to independent in 2018 and then dem in 2020. I would talk to buddies (very dem) and I was like “fuck that. Take the fight to them. Tell them you will pack the court, make …
Hmmm I understand your point of view and viscerally I agree. However, I don’t think it works in the Democratic Party. I am an ex Republican and I started to transition to independent in 2018 and then dem in 2020. I would talk to buddies (very dem) and I was like “fuck that. Take the fight to them. Tell them you will pack the court, make Puerto Rico a state, bring in trumps family and investigate them, etc.” My buddies were horrified. They were like that works for us (white liberals) who pay attention but won’t work on 80% of the coalition who cares about other things. They could care less about ivanka and Jarrod. Pretty eye opening.
Though I would like to give said buddies of yours a little dressing down, in the name of all that is good in the Republic.
I would tell them "Stop giving me reasons why you CAN'T do these things. Give me reasons you CAN. I don't want to hear another word until you've figured out some way, somewhere, somehow. Find a path. Go."
My academic advisor has given me exactly that hard advice, time to time. I think Dems writ large could use it right now.
I mean I hear you but I just don’t think it works.
I mean look at our society. Shit I even wonder what the hell could work now because you got a good president who is empathetic, pleasant, and old. The other side is running a serial rapist, a liar, a seditionist, tells you he wants and will be a dictator, etc. and half of fucking America is like “I’ll take option 2!!! Give me more of that!”
That’s why I found the discussion about “should Biden run” so infuriating. I mean sure maybe we could find the “perfect” candidate (and let’s be real we don’t have one of those). I mean you may get a bump of a point or two. Like you could run Jesus and it would be close. So frustrating.
That's the pitfall a lot of former Republicans fall into when they first wind up in Blue World. The Democratic Party isn't about ideology, it's about coalitions. Policy positions take years to fully emerge, and leadership is based around either personal charisma or the ability to swing coalition partners. We all jostle together and gradually hash things out, until you get an FDR or Clinton with enough personal charisma to light a forest fire.
It's also why a lot of us are sanguine about sharing a foxhole with former Republicans without demanding any changes in their policy positions. It's not like there weren't already people in the party whose ideas I find incompressible or pollyannaish or even harmful. That's why we have public scrums that give people who want message discipline heartburn. But when it's firing on all cylinders, it's basically unbeatable.
I mean I was socially liberal and fiscally conservative (whatever that means now). I live in sf so I mostly voted for republicans down ballot because I wanted more of a split government. Nationally I was 50-50.
What I still, to this day, don’t understand is why the fuck dems protest dems and not protest republicans. It’s the dumbest shit I have ever seen. Dems will protest a dem for a 20 week ban but not a 6 week ban by Ron d.
My theory is that the left, at this point in time, simply doesn't enjoy fighting MAGA Republicans, if nothing else because they can't comprehend them.
Like Trump, MAGA Republicans don't play by the rules--they kick you in the nuts, pull out bazookas during a knife fight, stab you in the back during negotiations. Fighting with them is like staring into the abyss, and realizing it's staring right back at you. It's unsettling, and could potentially drives one mad.
So they'd much rather fight people they CAN comprehend--each other!
It feels better, and more righteous. Plus, when you've convinced yourself you're going to lose anyway, you're not focused on the actual enemy, you're focused on factional warfare, the better to cast blame after defeat.
(Beyond that, the left feels they should've "won the battle of ideas" against the likes of MAGA by now, and hates repeating itself besides, so they don't even try to engage in that battle. It's those OTHER leftists that need cutting down to size. See Monty Python, "People's Front of Judea" sketch, etc.)
Ha. Some truth here. Also a Black Lives Matter protest at maga would turnout something like this: “black lives matter. Treat them with respect.” “Fuck that. Let’s kill some more peeps!!!” “Uh oh…”
Yeah the lack of cohesion is good in that the party will never go down a rabbit hole like Trump but bad for driving a message.
I don’t think it’s a personality thing on protesting dems and attacking dems though. I think, rightfully in most cases, republicans don’t want to govern and they could careless if some hippies protest them but dems actually care
Hmmm I understand your point of view and viscerally I agree. However, I don’t think it works in the Democratic Party. I am an ex Republican and I started to transition to independent in 2018 and then dem in 2020. I would talk to buddies (very dem) and I was like “fuck that. Take the fight to them. Tell them you will pack the court, make Puerto Rico a state, bring in trumps family and investigate them, etc.” My buddies were horrified. They were like that works for us (white liberals) who pay attention but won’t work on 80% of the coalition who cares about other things. They could care less about ivanka and Jarrod. Pretty eye opening.
Yeah, that tracks.
Though I would like to give said buddies of yours a little dressing down, in the name of all that is good in the Republic.
I would tell them "Stop giving me reasons why you CAN'T do these things. Give me reasons you CAN. I don't want to hear another word until you've figured out some way, somewhere, somehow. Find a path. Go."
My academic advisor has given me exactly that hard advice, time to time. I think Dems writ large could use it right now.
I mean I hear you but I just don’t think it works.
I mean look at our society. Shit I even wonder what the hell could work now because you got a good president who is empathetic, pleasant, and old. The other side is running a serial rapist, a liar, a seditionist, tells you he wants and will be a dictator, etc. and half of fucking America is like “I’ll take option 2!!! Give me more of that!”
That’s why I found the discussion about “should Biden run” so infuriating. I mean sure maybe we could find the “perfect” candidate (and let’s be real we don’t have one of those). I mean you may get a bump of a point or two. Like you could run Jesus and it would be close. So frustrating.
That's the pitfall a lot of former Republicans fall into when they first wind up in Blue World. The Democratic Party isn't about ideology, it's about coalitions. Policy positions take years to fully emerge, and leadership is based around either personal charisma or the ability to swing coalition partners. We all jostle together and gradually hash things out, until you get an FDR or Clinton with enough personal charisma to light a forest fire.
It's also why a lot of us are sanguine about sharing a foxhole with former Republicans without demanding any changes in their policy positions. It's not like there weren't already people in the party whose ideas I find incompressible or pollyannaish or even harmful. That's why we have public scrums that give people who want message discipline heartburn. But when it's firing on all cylinders, it's basically unbeatable.
I mean I was socially liberal and fiscally conservative (whatever that means now). I live in sf so I mostly voted for republicans down ballot because I wanted more of a split government. Nationally I was 50-50.
What I still, to this day, don’t understand is why the fuck dems protest dems and not protest republicans. It’s the dumbest shit I have ever seen. Dems will protest a dem for a 20 week ban but not a 6 week ban by Ron d.
My theory is that the left, at this point in time, simply doesn't enjoy fighting MAGA Republicans, if nothing else because they can't comprehend them.
Like Trump, MAGA Republicans don't play by the rules--they kick you in the nuts, pull out bazookas during a knife fight, stab you in the back during negotiations. Fighting with them is like staring into the abyss, and realizing it's staring right back at you. It's unsettling, and could potentially drives one mad.
So they'd much rather fight people they CAN comprehend--each other!
It feels better, and more righteous. Plus, when you've convinced yourself you're going to lose anyway, you're not focused on the actual enemy, you're focused on factional warfare, the better to cast blame after defeat.
(Beyond that, the left feels they should've "won the battle of ideas" against the likes of MAGA by now, and hates repeating itself besides, so they don't even try to engage in that battle. It's those OTHER leftists that need cutting down to size. See Monty Python, "People's Front of Judea" sketch, etc.)
Ha. Some truth here. Also a Black Lives Matter protest at maga would turnout something like this: “black lives matter. Treat them with respect.” “Fuck that. Let’s kill some more peeps!!!” “Uh oh…”
We have always been less cohesive, that is an advantage Repuboicans have, sometimes to bad ends, like now.
But, we just for whatever reason, we are more likely to attack our own for not following what we want...
Think that is a personality difference?
Yeah the lack of cohesion is good in that the party will never go down a rabbit hole like Trump but bad for driving a message.
I don’t think it’s a personality thing on protesting dems and attacking dems though. I think, rightfully in most cases, republicans don’t want to govern and they could careless if some hippies protest them but dems actually care