It’s just a matter of time at this point that’s just the reality. If he were able to recover from the debate he would’ve done a long press conference at the beginning of this week. The fact he is only doing 15 minutes with ABC says all you need to know that it can’t be salvaged. No good options at this point.
It’s just a matter of time at this point that’s just the reality. If he were able to recover from the debate he would’ve done a long press conference at the beginning of this week. The fact he is only doing 15 minutes with ABC says all you need to know that it can’t be salvaged. No good options at this point.
Yep! Tea leaves are easy to read. I sure wish the surrogates would stop debasing themselves and chirping about “He’s in it to win it.” Cringe. Another example of inept messaging
Could be right. If he has done a major press conference and did well I bet people should say he should have done 3 or he tripped over this question. The media smells blood. They aren’t going to let go (not saying this in any negative sense). Time is his only power here
It’s classic political damage control though when you have a crisis or slumping poll numbers you take over a press conference and stay for 45+ minutes taking questions. Clinton, Obama, Bush and even Trump did it.
This was a bigger crisis than any of those times and the fact it wasn’t automatically done within 3 days tells you that in this case his presidency ends by end of January.
If he had done that he could’ve had a narrative of Biden being combative and defiant refusing to drop out. He could’ve gotten angry at the reporters strategically like Bill Clinton did during his scandal.
Without something like that he’s dead man walking (not actually politically of course)
Sad part is I think he was a very good president in an impossible situation.
Maybe maybe not. It’s what I would do but I know shit about it. All I have to say is the media environment is drastically different than it was in the years you described. Comparing Trump to Biden is irrelevant. He would go on Fox and he would be non sensical and the entire right wing media ecosystem would tell you how great he was 24/7. That isn’t a useful comparison. Trump hasn’t done a hard hitting interview since 2020. It literally doesn’t exist. I guarantee if msm treated Biden like Trump there would be no concern. Not saying they should but his issue is with the base.
People talk about how awful Biden was…and he WAS. It wasn’t the worst debate though. That was 2020 when the candidate was screaming and yelling and then almost killed the competitor and then checked himself into a hospital a week later. I’m sorry but if msm doesn’t want Trump maybe act like it. You can tell us it’s journalistic ethics. Cool bro but then when you get what you sow enjoy it and don’t complain about dems.
Our problem is that the voters and the media holds Dems to some historical standard while republicans throw shit at the camera. Adjust if you want dems to win. If you don’t, fine but I don’t want to hear complaints when you are in gitmo
“People talk about how awful Biden was…and he WAS. It wasn’t the worst debate though. That was 2020 when the candidate was screaming and yelling and then almost killed the competitor and then checked himself into a hospital a week later.”
You make some excellent points, but like you said, this isn’t a normal election, and the media (rightfully so), won’t let up. And Biden isn’t helping by hiding in his bunker. And as to that worse performance by a candidate in a debate, in which you speak of? That candidate lost!
The good news that since this isn’t a normal election, and 72% of voters have been saying for a year that neither candidate should run; switching mid-stream may be an opportunity for democrats, since Trump isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon.
That said, we are talking about democrats, who never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity.
Look there are no good choices. I’m not trying to minimize the situation at all. Apologies if you got that from my post. That was not my intent.
Look we have no power over what Biden does. Like literally zero. I have no idea if he drops out or doesn’t. I just don’t see the benefit of piling on but I understand people’s angst.
Ok then we move to option 2. He drops out. Now that is where I fundamentally disagree with a lot of people. If you want Biden to drop out (not necessarily you) then you need to explain and SELL me on why Kamala is better. Those are the choices. The other choices are idiotic. open convention shit is a pipe dream. It died on the veep cutting room floor. People need to actually take the time to actually (1) realize how delegates vote (they are delegates that are loyal to Biden/harris and they are ACTIVISTS. these are NOT primary voters. They don’t represent primary voters. They do not give 2 shits about the polls. They want candidates that will advance their INTERESTS). (2) no other candidate has a national campaign team, (3) they have no money, (4) they have to take over a 2b corporation that has been primed for Harris/Biden’s message and (5) what is their fucking message. I guarantee it isn’t Biden/harris’ message. Look if I could just wave my hand and choose the president and Vp that I like…awesome. However my choices aren’t your choices and aren’t likely to actually be chosen by the delegates. Not only that, it’s like we are just going to wave away the next 7 weeks of discussions about healthcare for all or free Gaza. Then you imagine what the “open convention” looks like where there are MASSIVE protests outside and complete dysfunction inside the convention…we have 8 weeks of dems attacking each other, having a useless debate about shit that will never happen, the press just dropping shit on each candidate, blah blah blah. Even if we PICK the right candidate (almost zero chance that happens… I LOVE Big gretch and Josh s but i think they lose their states to Trump. They beat Fucking awful candidates. We are talking about a generational politician in Trump here) that candidate has almost no chance of winning.
I want to win in nov. I’ll vote for Biden in a coffin. I’ll vote for Ted Cruz if he is the nominee. What I would like is people explaining why Kamala is better. That’s it. None of the other fantasy bs. People say she will be better at prosecuting the case against Trump. I agree!!!! I just don’t think it matters. There isn’t a single voter who doesn’t know who and what Donald is. The question is the following: is an old white incumbent president who needs to take naps and can fall asleep at any point is better than a vigorous, smart, thoughtful, intelligent black woman.
The sad part is I think America will more likely vote for the feeble old white male than a black woman. That’s what I struggle with. I want to think better of our voters but I just…can’t. They have and had such an easy choice. Vote for smart, thoughtful people in the Republican Party who ran against a criminal that didnt do a single thing to actually run to win the Republican nominee…and they chose the lazy, old, idiotic, criminal.
Very valid points, and no apologies necessary. It’s a discussion, not an argument…:)
That said, I agree, it will have to be Biden’s choice to leave. And if he can’t convince voters in the next two weeks that he is fine, then he needs to go. If there strategy is Biden isn’t Trump, and we have TOO MUCH TO LOSE, then we’ve already lost.
My problem with Biden is that he has become the issue: Not his agenda, or Trump’s authoritarian and vindictive nature. The 24 hr news cycle will continue to milk this story for all its worth, until Biden either drops out, or proves them wrong. So far, he’s still hiding in his bunker and is coming out for a 15 minute interview with ABC News. Not a winning strategy given what’s at stake.
If all is okay, don’t you think they would have him out in front of the press 24/7? Instead, the campaign is deflecting, blaming everyone except themselves. Again, not a recipe for success.
As for why Kamala is better than Biden? She’s younger and 72% of the population would rather have anyone other than Trump or Biden. And Kamala could add Shapiro to the ticket to get the mid west vote: MI, WI, and PA, necessary for success.
Not to mention, they can blame Biden for Gaza and Ukraine, and possibly win back the youth and Muslim vote. Although Kamala may be part of the administration, the youth and Muslim communities blame Biden; he’s the one they want to exact their pound of flesh from. And these groups certainly don’t like Trump.
Furthermore, I see this as an opportunity, since it would immediately redirect attention from Biden, to the new campaign and first potential female president. Granted, it’s a Hail Mary, but what other options exist? One more senior moment like Thursday (being very generous), and we will not recover. Not to mention, a new candidate can focus on Trump, abortion, Project 2025 and the American Taliban SC. It will be billions in free advertising, and for once, it won’t be Trump sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
That said, we are talking about democrats, and they never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity. So………
No problem. I’m not going to argue about anything about Biden. He will do what he wants to do. If he drops out, fine. If he doesn’t don’t know what worse to do other than polish a turd
Robert, Kamala doesn’t pick her Vp. You realize this right? That isn’t how this works. JFK fucking hated lbj. He had to give lbj the Vp slot because of the delegates. Pennsylvania represents like 16 delegates. They ain’t choosing him because he is from Pennsylvania. They will choose him because he does what they want on finance, ag, education, fp, whatever.
Sure you can blame Biden for his policy on Israel. Agree!!!! That assumes she would do something different that doesn’t hurt her with Jews and center right Israeli lovers. There is ONLY downside on Israel. Maybe she could be better but if she comes out and says “I’m not sending another bomb to Israel unless there is a new election?” She will have 24/7 news dropped on her that she is antisemite. Maybe that is more popular. I have no idea but it will be ugly. Then they will obviously ask on whatever her position is “why can’t Kamala convince a mentally retarded to do what she wants and we are suppose to believe that china and russia will take you seriously????” What’s the answer for why won’t Biden do what Harris thinks is best? This has nothing to do with right or wrong. She will look weak. And you can’t be a woman looking weak to a feeble old man when you run against Trump (btw this is true for ALL the dem nominees).
Robert, you know the voters. You think that if 72% say they don’t want the incumbent to run again that means they will support someone “new.” I don’t. I think that if Obama was running now they would poll almost the exact same way. People, everywhere in the world, hates incumbents. They could be old, young, left, right, far right, popular and unpopular and they lose. Seriously people hate incumbents. This was true of Trump too in 2020.
My question is simple: do you think an old white guy who can fall asleep anywhere is more likely to win white voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin versus a smart, diligent, black immigrant woman. That’s the question.
I agree with most of your points, I think we disagree on whether Biden still has a chance to win. I think the election is over with Biden at the helm. It’s been an issue for most Americans for over a year. That’s what I’m basing my premise on. And the same voters also believe Trump is unfit for office. People are craving change, and the two party system has given us absolutely nothing but two bad choices: an affable octogenarian, and a vindictive, narcissistic sociopath.
As for Kamala, her husband Doug Emhoff is Jewish, and is active, and respected in the Jewish community. She’s also excellent at fundraising big dollar donors.
Like I said, its a Hail Mary since we’re left we bad choices and worse choices. However, all is not lost. I think new blood will be a paradigm shift for the election, and the focus will be back to abortion, the SC, and Trumps authoritarian policies, and his backing by right-wing organizations, who want to turn this country into the American Taliban.
Bottom line: The press will be relentless until Biden leaves or proves them wrong (the MSM isn’t wrong). And let’s face it, his campaign aren’t doing themselves any favors by keeping Biden in his bunker.
Honestly I don’t know what I think is best. I don’t totally agree with your take on Biden being done, electorally but I understand it and any argument I make is more vibes than evidence.
You are right about the media smelling Biden blood in the water. However you know the moment it is someone else the msm will do everything possible to portray the dems and the new candidate in disarray. I wish we had some help in this election.
I don’t disagree with you. Right now, every option seems bad. Biden has my vote no if he decides to stay in the race. I’d vote for a head of lettuce before Trump. And I’m not staying home, although I do vote by mail….:)
My fear is Biden doesn’t instill confidence, nor does he have the ability to galvanize the electorate. We were losing before last Thursday, and now we’re in a deeper hole. Is it possible Biden can squeeze out a victory. Yes! Is it probable as of today? No!
He’s not being pushed out the door right now, but he is on notice. Let’s see how he does in the next week or so. Although, I just think more people will stay home than go to the polls for Biden, and if that’s the case (TBD), then the down ballot candidates will also be screwed.
If we lose the presidency, we need to either keep the senate, or regain the house. Sadly, if Trump wins and republicans retake the senate, then we’re stuck with a fascist court for the next forty years. Alito, Roberts and Thomas will definitely retire by the midterms, and our democracy is screwed.
I agree that he would receive super hostile questions and be held to a double standard. My main point is it's like he's down 8 points needing to go 90 yards to tie the game and he's running the ball. At this point if he were trying to salvage his campaign then he'd be playing different. No one wants to throw into double or triple coverage but when circumstances force you to you do it. This feels like one of those end plays where he just doesn't have the arm to get it to the end zone so even if the hail mary is caught it will be a few yards short.
Oh totally agree. I was more just screaming into the wind.
But that’s the problem in my mind. There is no reason he shouldn’t be winning by 30 and I don’t want to hear shit about his age. Sure it’s an issue, a REAL issue but trump isn’t hiding what he did or will do. Other than this mess up he has been fine so let’s look back a week. He was tied or down 2. Let’s say down 2. I’m sorry but trump has been taking a shit in public with the cameras on and the public doesn’t care. He shouldn’t even have been elected by republicans..but he was by a landslide without doing ANYTHING.
I know it’s a counterfactual but I guarantee no matter who we ran we would be right here. It would be it’s a woman or her laugh or her gait or he is gay or Jewish or black or too right or to pro Israel or too pro Palestine or too left. Voters want what Trump is telling them. He isn’t hiding it. That’s our issue.
It’s just a matter of time at this point that’s just the reality. If he were able to recover from the debate he would’ve done a long press conference at the beginning of this week. The fact he is only doing 15 minutes with ABC says all you need to know that it can’t be salvaged. No good options at this point.
Yep! Tea leaves are easy to read. I sure wish the surrogates would stop debasing themselves and chirping about “He’s in it to win it.” Cringe. Another example of inept messaging
Could be right. If he has done a major press conference and did well I bet people should say he should have done 3 or he tripped over this question. The media smells blood. They aren’t going to let go (not saying this in any negative sense). Time is his only power here
It’s classic political damage control though when you have a crisis or slumping poll numbers you take over a press conference and stay for 45+ minutes taking questions. Clinton, Obama, Bush and even Trump did it.
This was a bigger crisis than any of those times and the fact it wasn’t automatically done within 3 days tells you that in this case his presidency ends by end of January.
If he had done that he could’ve had a narrative of Biden being combative and defiant refusing to drop out. He could’ve gotten angry at the reporters strategically like Bill Clinton did during his scandal.
Without something like that he’s dead man walking (not actually politically of course)
Sad part is I think he was a very good president in an impossible situation.
Maybe maybe not. It’s what I would do but I know shit about it. All I have to say is the media environment is drastically different than it was in the years you described. Comparing Trump to Biden is irrelevant. He would go on Fox and he would be non sensical and the entire right wing media ecosystem would tell you how great he was 24/7. That isn’t a useful comparison. Trump hasn’t done a hard hitting interview since 2020. It literally doesn’t exist. I guarantee if msm treated Biden like Trump there would be no concern. Not saying they should but his issue is with the base.
People talk about how awful Biden was…and he WAS. It wasn’t the worst debate though. That was 2020 when the candidate was screaming and yelling and then almost killed the competitor and then checked himself into a hospital a week later. I’m sorry but if msm doesn’t want Trump maybe act like it. You can tell us it’s journalistic ethics. Cool bro but then when you get what you sow enjoy it and don’t complain about dems.
Our problem is that the voters and the media holds Dems to some historical standard while republicans throw shit at the camera. Adjust if you want dems to win. If you don’t, fine but I don’t want to hear complaints when you are in gitmo
“People talk about how awful Biden was…and he WAS. It wasn’t the worst debate though. That was 2020 when the candidate was screaming and yelling and then almost killed the competitor and then checked himself into a hospital a week later.”
You make some excellent points, but like you said, this isn’t a normal election, and the media (rightfully so), won’t let up. And Biden isn’t helping by hiding in his bunker. And as to that worse performance by a candidate in a debate, in which you speak of? That candidate lost!
The good news that since this isn’t a normal election, and 72% of voters have been saying for a year that neither candidate should run; switching mid-stream may be an opportunity for democrats, since Trump isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon.
That said, we are talking about democrats, who never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity.
Good times…:)
Look there are no good choices. I’m not trying to minimize the situation at all. Apologies if you got that from my post. That was not my intent.
Look we have no power over what Biden does. Like literally zero. I have no idea if he drops out or doesn’t. I just don’t see the benefit of piling on but I understand people’s angst.
Ok then we move to option 2. He drops out. Now that is where I fundamentally disagree with a lot of people. If you want Biden to drop out (not necessarily you) then you need to explain and SELL me on why Kamala is better. Those are the choices. The other choices are idiotic. open convention shit is a pipe dream. It died on the veep cutting room floor. People need to actually take the time to actually (1) realize how delegates vote (they are delegates that are loyal to Biden/harris and they are ACTIVISTS. these are NOT primary voters. They don’t represent primary voters. They do not give 2 shits about the polls. They want candidates that will advance their INTERESTS). (2) no other candidate has a national campaign team, (3) they have no money, (4) they have to take over a 2b corporation that has been primed for Harris/Biden’s message and (5) what is their fucking message. I guarantee it isn’t Biden/harris’ message. Look if I could just wave my hand and choose the president and Vp that I like…awesome. However my choices aren’t your choices and aren’t likely to actually be chosen by the delegates. Not only that, it’s like we are just going to wave away the next 7 weeks of discussions about healthcare for all or free Gaza. Then you imagine what the “open convention” looks like where there are MASSIVE protests outside and complete dysfunction inside the convention…we have 8 weeks of dems attacking each other, having a useless debate about shit that will never happen, the press just dropping shit on each candidate, blah blah blah. Even if we PICK the right candidate (almost zero chance that happens… I LOVE Big gretch and Josh s but i think they lose their states to Trump. They beat Fucking awful candidates. We are talking about a generational politician in Trump here) that candidate has almost no chance of winning.
I want to win in nov. I’ll vote for Biden in a coffin. I’ll vote for Ted Cruz if he is the nominee. What I would like is people explaining why Kamala is better. That’s it. None of the other fantasy bs. People say she will be better at prosecuting the case against Trump. I agree!!!! I just don’t think it matters. There isn’t a single voter who doesn’t know who and what Donald is. The question is the following: is an old white incumbent president who needs to take naps and can fall asleep at any point is better than a vigorous, smart, thoughtful, intelligent black woman.
The sad part is I think America will more likely vote for the feeble old white male than a black woman. That’s what I struggle with. I want to think better of our voters but I just…can’t. They have and had such an easy choice. Vote for smart, thoughtful people in the Republican Party who ran against a criminal that didnt do a single thing to actually run to win the Republican nominee…and they chose the lazy, old, idiotic, criminal.
Very valid points, and no apologies necessary. It’s a discussion, not an argument…:)
That said, I agree, it will have to be Biden’s choice to leave. And if he can’t convince voters in the next two weeks that he is fine, then he needs to go. If there strategy is Biden isn’t Trump, and we have TOO MUCH TO LOSE, then we’ve already lost.
My problem with Biden is that he has become the issue: Not his agenda, or Trump’s authoritarian and vindictive nature. The 24 hr news cycle will continue to milk this story for all its worth, until Biden either drops out, or proves them wrong. So far, he’s still hiding in his bunker and is coming out for a 15 minute interview with ABC News. Not a winning strategy given what’s at stake.
If all is okay, don’t you think they would have him out in front of the press 24/7? Instead, the campaign is deflecting, blaming everyone except themselves. Again, not a recipe for success.
As for why Kamala is better than Biden? She’s younger and 72% of the population would rather have anyone other than Trump or Biden. And Kamala could add Shapiro to the ticket to get the mid west vote: MI, WI, and PA, necessary for success.
Not to mention, they can blame Biden for Gaza and Ukraine, and possibly win back the youth and Muslim vote. Although Kamala may be part of the administration, the youth and Muslim communities blame Biden; he’s the one they want to exact their pound of flesh from. And these groups certainly don’t like Trump.
Furthermore, I see this as an opportunity, since it would immediately redirect attention from Biden, to the new campaign and first potential female president. Granted, it’s a Hail Mary, but what other options exist? One more senior moment like Thursday (being very generous), and we will not recover. Not to mention, a new candidate can focus on Trump, abortion, Project 2025 and the American Taliban SC. It will be billions in free advertising, and for once, it won’t be Trump sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
That said, we are talking about democrats, and they never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity. So………
No problem. I’m not going to argue about anything about Biden. He will do what he wants to do. If he drops out, fine. If he doesn’t don’t know what worse to do other than polish a turd
Robert, Kamala doesn’t pick her Vp. You realize this right? That isn’t how this works. JFK fucking hated lbj. He had to give lbj the Vp slot because of the delegates. Pennsylvania represents like 16 delegates. They ain’t choosing him because he is from Pennsylvania. They will choose him because he does what they want on finance, ag, education, fp, whatever.
Sure you can blame Biden for his policy on Israel. Agree!!!! That assumes she would do something different that doesn’t hurt her with Jews and center right Israeli lovers. There is ONLY downside on Israel. Maybe she could be better but if she comes out and says “I’m not sending another bomb to Israel unless there is a new election?” She will have 24/7 news dropped on her that she is antisemite. Maybe that is more popular. I have no idea but it will be ugly. Then they will obviously ask on whatever her position is “why can’t Kamala convince a mentally retarded to do what she wants and we are suppose to believe that china and russia will take you seriously????” What’s the answer for why won’t Biden do what Harris thinks is best? This has nothing to do with right or wrong. She will look weak. And you can’t be a woman looking weak to a feeble old man when you run against Trump (btw this is true for ALL the dem nominees).
Robert, you know the voters. You think that if 72% say they don’t want the incumbent to run again that means they will support someone “new.” I don’t. I think that if Obama was running now they would poll almost the exact same way. People, everywhere in the world, hates incumbents. They could be old, young, left, right, far right, popular and unpopular and they lose. Seriously people hate incumbents. This was true of Trump too in 2020.
My question is simple: do you think an old white guy who can fall asleep anywhere is more likely to win white voters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin versus a smart, diligent, black immigrant woman. That’s the question.
I agree with most of your points, I think we disagree on whether Biden still has a chance to win. I think the election is over with Biden at the helm. It’s been an issue for most Americans for over a year. That’s what I’m basing my premise on. And the same voters also believe Trump is unfit for office. People are craving change, and the two party system has given us absolutely nothing but two bad choices: an affable octogenarian, and a vindictive, narcissistic sociopath.
As for Kamala, her husband Doug Emhoff is Jewish, and is active, and respected in the Jewish community. She’s also excellent at fundraising big dollar donors.
Like I said, its a Hail Mary since we’re left we bad choices and worse choices. However, all is not lost. I think new blood will be a paradigm shift for the election, and the focus will be back to abortion, the SC, and Trumps authoritarian policies, and his backing by right-wing organizations, who want to turn this country into the American Taliban.
Bottom line: The press will be relentless until Biden leaves or proves them wrong (the MSM isn’t wrong). And let’s face it, his campaign aren’t doing themselves any favors by keeping Biden in his bunker.
If anything, its having the opposite effect.
Honestly I don’t know what I think is best. I don’t totally agree with your take on Biden being done, electorally but I understand it and any argument I make is more vibes than evidence.
You are right about the media smelling Biden blood in the water. However you know the moment it is someone else the msm will do everything possible to portray the dems and the new candidate in disarray. I wish we had some help in this election.
I don’t disagree with you. Right now, every option seems bad. Biden has my vote no if he decides to stay in the race. I’d vote for a head of lettuce before Trump. And I’m not staying home, although I do vote by mail….:)
My fear is Biden doesn’t instill confidence, nor does he have the ability to galvanize the electorate. We were losing before last Thursday, and now we’re in a deeper hole. Is it possible Biden can squeeze out a victory. Yes! Is it probable as of today? No!
He’s not being pushed out the door right now, but he is on notice. Let’s see how he does in the next week or so. Although, I just think more people will stay home than go to the polls for Biden, and if that’s the case (TBD), then the down ballot candidates will also be screwed.
If we lose the presidency, we need to either keep the senate, or regain the house. Sadly, if Trump wins and republicans retake the senate, then we’re stuck with a fascist court for the next forty years. Alito, Roberts and Thomas will definitely retire by the midterms, and our democracy is screwed.
I agree that he would receive super hostile questions and be held to a double standard. My main point is it's like he's down 8 points needing to go 90 yards to tie the game and he's running the ball. At this point if he were trying to salvage his campaign then he'd be playing different. No one wants to throw into double or triple coverage but when circumstances force you to you do it. This feels like one of those end plays where he just doesn't have the arm to get it to the end zone so even if the hail mary is caught it will be a few yards short.
Oh totally agree. I was more just screaming into the wind.
But that’s the problem in my mind. There is no reason he shouldn’t be winning by 30 and I don’t want to hear shit about his age. Sure it’s an issue, a REAL issue but trump isn’t hiding what he did or will do. Other than this mess up he has been fine so let’s look back a week. He was tied or down 2. Let’s say down 2. I’m sorry but trump has been taking a shit in public with the cameras on and the public doesn’t care. He shouldn’t even have been elected by republicans..but he was by a landslide without doing ANYTHING.
I know it’s a counterfactual but I guarantee no matter who we ran we would be right here. It would be it’s a woman or her laugh or her gait or he is gay or Jewish or black or too right or to pro Israel or too pro Palestine or too left. Voters want what Trump is telling them. He isn’t hiding it. That’s our issue.