Excellent discussion. I too had a blind spot about the centrality of race, and how the past isn’t even the past. I thought that America’s advancements during the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s were here to stay and instead I have to accept the reality that we are backtracking on our rights.
We're backtracking on everything—science, medicine, education, knowledge, civility. That so many chose this because "oh he won't be so bad" makes me see red.
I almost skipped this due to Epstein overload. So glad I didn't. Just signed up for John's Substack and I see some meaty offerings! Amazing how the Confederacy managed to glue together oligarchs and dirt farmers and is doing it again today.
Really good conversation. It made me think that although there’s a hatred of the “elite”, and an envy of the “rich and famous” there’s also an escapist fascination with them that shows itself in the popularity of TV shows and films about people richer and more successful. Like “Dallas”, to go back a bit, or James Bond, or any number of others - there has always been a huge appetite for vicariously enjoying wealth and its manifestations - fast cars, big houses, powerful people. Trump seems to have a reality show host’s ability to understand all of that, to be the golden escalator to that world while at the same time echoing the voices that say they despise that which has a magnetic draw for them. That’s part of the obsession with Epstein - it’s a “Dallas”-like world of ostentatious wealth, with the addition of a salaciously disgusting secretive component that feeds nicely into being explained by conspiracy theories - the additional thrill of contributing to the script of this odious soap opera.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this question: as a not-very-political person, it seems like we are moving/have moved into a political structure where elections and law are almost irrelevant. The platforms on which we used to discuss our values and the “how” of running a country seem to be ignored and unenforced. The government/money just do whatever they want. So it seems almost foolish to continue publishing, voting, marching, donating to legal fights, if the ones in power are just laughing at us. They do whatever they want to amalgamate more power and $ for themselves. I mean, who needs to make 60 billion MORE dollars in a month???
From a practical perspective: does voting and legislating still matter? Have we reached the point where pouring money and energy into legal and electoral fights is just a distraction from what is actually being implemented at top levels?
What do you recommend citizens should do to try and get their voice heard? Are there systems still in place, functioning, to represent us?
Because practically speaking: if the only thing that matters is force now - financial and military - what can we do?
JVL, this was a great conversation with John Ganz…I feel at times like I’m back in school and working on a poly sci/history/sociology degree with so much meaty Bulwark content! I learn a lot from other commenters too. Thank you for finding these wonderful folks to bring on the Bulwark.
Heather Cox Richardson on her podcast yesterday (7/17) expressed great concern about the development of the definition of citizenship not being based on the idea of America, and said it’s not getting enough attention…specifically mentioning Vance’s blood and soil related speech.
I find it interesting that Sarah is so much more on board with the potential Epstein conspiracy than JVL is. I would have reversed that if I’d had to guess. It’s kind of amusing. I’m enjoying Sarah’s enthusiasm so much!
Very interesting conversation. I appreciate that you two stepped away from breathless speculating about the Trump drama of the day to look at the bigger picture. I’m glad that you spotlighted the historical impulse towards an oligarchy which perpetually strives to limit human rights to only some people.
Regarding John's discussion of "race" and how people perceive fitting in the GOP's world, it is due to their ability to make them perceive the targets as "other" because Trump and the GOP discuss the target's traits as amorphous like a zodiac writer does with references such that anyone can take it as applying to themselves.
John is spot on! Trump and the GOP got into power and were allowed to act to destroy our liberal order because of the rot in the American electorate. These reprehensible voters prized wealth and selfishness above all else. The Confederacy won. It is that simple.
Exciting to see John Ganz with JVL. I would pay $100/year to hear these two bounce ideas off of each other on a regular basis.
Excellent discussion. I too had a blind spot about the centrality of race, and how the past isn’t even the past. I thought that America’s advancements during the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s were here to stay and instead I have to accept the reality that we are backtracking on our rights.
We're backtracking on everything—science, medicine, education, knowledge, civility. That so many chose this because "oh he won't be so bad" makes me see red.
Fury runs through my veins.
i can hear dana from erie colorado
What is the name they say at 39:20? Transcript says "Rav K. Judo."
I almost skipped this due to Epstein overload. So glad I didn't. Just signed up for John's Substack and I see some meaty offerings! Amazing how the Confederacy managed to glue together oligarchs and dirt farmers and is doing it again today.
Really good conversation. It made me think that although there’s a hatred of the “elite”, and an envy of the “rich and famous” there’s also an escapist fascination with them that shows itself in the popularity of TV shows and films about people richer and more successful. Like “Dallas”, to go back a bit, or James Bond, or any number of others - there has always been a huge appetite for vicariously enjoying wealth and its manifestations - fast cars, big houses, powerful people. Trump seems to have a reality show host’s ability to understand all of that, to be the golden escalator to that world while at the same time echoing the voices that say they despise that which has a magnetic draw for them. That’s part of the obsession with Epstein - it’s a “Dallas”-like world of ostentatious wealth, with the addition of a salaciously disgusting secretive component that feeds nicely into being explained by conspiracy theories - the additional thrill of contributing to the script of this odious soap opera.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this question: as a not-very-political person, it seems like we are moving/have moved into a political structure where elections and law are almost irrelevant. The platforms on which we used to discuss our values and the “how” of running a country seem to be ignored and unenforced. The government/money just do whatever they want. So it seems almost foolish to continue publishing, voting, marching, donating to legal fights, if the ones in power are just laughing at us. They do whatever they want to amalgamate more power and $ for themselves. I mean, who needs to make 60 billion MORE dollars in a month???
From a practical perspective: does voting and legislating still matter? Have we reached the point where pouring money and energy into legal and electoral fights is just a distraction from what is actually being implemented at top levels?
What do you recommend citizens should do to try and get their voice heard? Are there systems still in place, functioning, to represent us?
Because practically speaking: if the only thing that matters is force now - financial and military - what can we do?
JVL, this was a great conversation with John Ganz…I feel at times like I’m back in school and working on a poly sci/history/sociology degree with so much meaty Bulwark content! I learn a lot from other commenters too. Thank you for finding these wonderful folks to bring on the Bulwark.
Heather Cox Richardson on her podcast yesterday (7/17) expressed great concern about the development of the definition of citizenship not being based on the idea of America, and said it’s not getting enough attention…specifically mentioning Vance’s blood and soil related speech.
I find it interesting that Sarah is so much more on board with the potential Epstein conspiracy than JVL is. I would have reversed that if I’d had to guess. It’s kind of amusing. I’m enjoying Sarah’s enthusiasm so much!
Very interesting conversation. I appreciate that you two stepped away from breathless speculating about the Trump drama of the day to look at the bigger picture. I’m glad that you spotlighted the historical impulse towards an oligarchy which perpetually strives to limit human rights to only some people.
Regarding John's discussion of "race" and how people perceive fitting in the GOP's world, it is due to their ability to make them perceive the targets as "other" because Trump and the GOP discuss the target's traits as amorphous like a zodiac writer does with references such that anyone can take it as applying to themselves.
John is spot on! Trump and the GOP got into power and were allowed to act to destroy our liberal order because of the rot in the American electorate. These reprehensible voters prized wealth and selfishness above all else. The Confederacy won. It is that simple.
Such an enjoyable, informative conversation! Thanks!
Love this interview. Put all my historical information into a frame work
Trump is more likely to show more serious signs of dementia, he will die years after it's obvious.