I'd have to find it, but there was some research suggesting that looser involuntary commitment laws (ie the ability of an ER doc to send you to an inpatient psych facility against your will) decreases shootings. I can tell you from experience that NY made this the easiest of three states I've practiced in (and had the lowest number of ma…
I'd have to find it, but there was some research suggesting that looser involuntary commitment laws (ie the ability of an ER doc to send you to an inpatient psych facility against your will) decreases shootings. I can tell you from experience that NY made this the easiest of three states I've practiced in (and had the lowest number of mass shootings). It was really easy to do a 48 hour hold, and then get a hearing where we could advocate for a longer hold., This tracks with your observation that people are sane until the aren't. (Usually the patient chose to represent themself at the hearing. This almost always resulted in the judge letting the medical team determine length of stay).
I think a lot of states really need to re-visit their involuntary commitment laws in light of both mass shootings and the drug crises. It's a tough convo. I mean, you're giving the medical establishment the leeway to override a human's most fundamental right. On the other hand, how much agency does someone addicted to fentanyl and P2P meth really have over their life? How much risk should society bear given that the mentally unhinged have such easy access to weapons of mass slaughter. There is not going to be an easy answer.
This is a well-thought out argument and it does pose really difficult questions. NYC has the advantage of nobody owning handguns to begin with unless you're a cop, so when the guys in the white coats show up to put you in the van, they're not normally confronted with gunfire. That may be a different case in other states. There have been strings of "I ain't going to prison" shootings against law enforcement when they are taking suspects in on warrants, for example: https://www.kktv.com/2022/09/09/sheriff-2-deputies-killed-while-serving-warrant-georgia/
For what it's worth, I lived upstate and the handgun ban did not seem to dampen enthusiasm for hunting or recreation shooting. I knew a gang who frequently went skeet shooting, and the farmers around me got so many deer tags that they would give them away to people who trusted and let them hunt on their land.
So I don't buy into this idea that reasonable gun laws are going to be an anchor around the neck of responsible gun hobbyists. It was easy enough to shoot clay pigeons and deer if that was your jam. But it was harder to shoot people.
Modern "gun hobbyists" do stuff like 3-gun competitions where they swap from pistol to shotgun to assault rifle in the same match. They'll say that ditching high-capacity semi-auto is going to kill their little "hobby." Because we really needed to invent a "sport" like 3-gun. Wanna talk about "grooming"? There are parents teaching kids as old as 8 to do 3-gun matches in TrumpLand. The hobbies have changed over the years, especially in Trumpy states.
A former navy seal taught me to skeet shoot, I went to a high school with a rifle team, and have gone target shooting at gun range (well over a decade ago). I never saw myself getting real into it, but I see the appeal.
The change in gun culture is just unthinkable to me. I don't understand it at all. I wouldn't let an eight year old play with a BB gun.
I'd have to find it, but there was some research suggesting that looser involuntary commitment laws (ie the ability of an ER doc to send you to an inpatient psych facility against your will) decreases shootings. I can tell you from experience that NY made this the easiest of three states I've practiced in (and had the lowest number of mass shootings). It was really easy to do a 48 hour hold, and then get a hearing where we could advocate for a longer hold., This tracks with your observation that people are sane until the aren't. (Usually the patient chose to represent themself at the hearing. This almost always resulted in the judge letting the medical team determine length of stay).
I think a lot of states really need to re-visit their involuntary commitment laws in light of both mass shootings and the drug crises. It's a tough convo. I mean, you're giving the medical establishment the leeway to override a human's most fundamental right. On the other hand, how much agency does someone addicted to fentanyl and P2P meth really have over their life? How much risk should society bear given that the mentally unhinged have such easy access to weapons of mass slaughter. There is not going to be an easy answer.
Well said.
This is a well-thought out argument and it does pose really difficult questions. NYC has the advantage of nobody owning handguns to begin with unless you're a cop, so when the guys in the white coats show up to put you in the van, they're not normally confronted with gunfire. That may be a different case in other states. There have been strings of "I ain't going to prison" shootings against law enforcement when they are taking suspects in on warrants, for example: https://www.kktv.com/2022/09/09/sheriff-2-deputies-killed-while-serving-warrant-georgia/
For what it's worth, I lived upstate and the handgun ban did not seem to dampen enthusiasm for hunting or recreation shooting. I knew a gang who frequently went skeet shooting, and the farmers around me got so many deer tags that they would give them away to people who trusted and let them hunt on their land.
So I don't buy into this idea that reasonable gun laws are going to be an anchor around the neck of responsible gun hobbyists. It was easy enough to shoot clay pigeons and deer if that was your jam. But it was harder to shoot people.
Modern "gun hobbyists" do stuff like 3-gun competitions where they swap from pistol to shotgun to assault rifle in the same match. They'll say that ditching high-capacity semi-auto is going to kill their little "hobby." Because we really needed to invent a "sport" like 3-gun. Wanna talk about "grooming"? There are parents teaching kids as old as 8 to do 3-gun matches in TrumpLand. The hobbies have changed over the years, especially in Trumpy states.
A former navy seal taught me to skeet shoot, I went to a high school with a rifle team, and have gone target shooting at gun range (well over a decade ago). I never saw myself getting real into it, but I see the appeal.
The change in gun culture is just unthinkable to me. I don't understand it at all. I wouldn't let an eight year old play with a BB gun.