I don't think that I have ever said that an illiberal left didn't exist. I have said that they aren't a major problem (other than an image problem/electoral problem for would-be centrist Democrats).
The illiberal left is not about to seize control of the reins of the federal government, any time soon. They MIGHT help the MAGAts do so--by …
I don't think that I have ever said that an illiberal left didn't exist. I have said that they aren't a major problem (other than an image problem/electoral problem for would-be centrist Democrats).
The illiberal left is not about to seize control of the reins of the federal government, any time soon. They MIGHT help the MAGAts do so--by not turning out or going third party.
That is a problem that Democrats have to solve.
One of the key things to note is that people conflate being anti-Israel or not pro-Israel as being anti-Semitic. That is an indicator of the central problem in this whole mess. Israel is an ethno-religious state. It must necessarily privilege its ethno-religious nature--because the state exists to provide a safe place for Jews.
Given what the Jews have experienced over the last few thousand years, it is understandable that:
1) They want such a thing; and
2) It tends to operate the way it operates.
Without the cultural baggage/links between Judaism and Christianity and without the sense of guilt that permeates relations between Jews and European civilization, we probably would not actually like the Jewish state much, TBH. It might not even exist, TBH.
A lot of younger people, less inured in these things and free of guilt, obviously don't... and like Americans often do (for whatever reason) they are rooting for what they see as the underdogs (regardless of vile those underdogs can be).
We are REALLY good at holding our noses at or ignoring the sins of whatever group we want to favor. We do it continually. A lot of American do it in favor of Israel.
This isn't about who did what to whom, when and how bad it was in relation what other people did. That is an argument that has no end and whose conclusions depend very much on a number of contingent factors and biases--and it ultimately leads NOWHERE other than to justifications for more and worse violence. Tit for tat. An eye for an eye.
It IS about what people perceive and feel in the contingent moment (regardless of facts)--of how anger, irritation, and fear (and maybe very rarely, hope) play out.
And a lot of these younger people do not want to be dragged into some war over all of this. Because it isn't people my age that are going to get dragged into it.
I am confused by Charlie’s statements as well. Once again it feels like a strawman argument. I have said, the said that the illiberal left does exist but it is small and has no power (not just politically but in our everyday politics) but there is nothing to be done but condemn them and move on. If October 7th didn’t change their mind nothing Biden says or does will do any better.
I feel like Charlie, like almost all never trumpers, always wants some sister souljah moment believing that somehow the 90s are like the 20s. It makes people feel good but accomplishes nothing electorally
"The illiberal left is not about to seize control of the reins of the federal government, any time soon. They MIGHT help the MAGAts do so--by not turning out or going third party.
That is a problem that Democrats have to solve."
That's why I'm beginning to worry they are a major problem, because I have no idea how we solve it. This is a very emotionally fraught issue, and I am afraid it has the potential to hijack admittedly low-propensity young voters with abortion-rights levels of passion, and we'll need everyone who might turn out to turn out and vote for Biden. This will be a close election and there is little margin for error. We could really use these votes, but if these youngsters have convinced themselves that President Biden is allied with a genocidal regime intent on punching down and eliminating an oppressed people, I'm pretty worried how it will impact the election in 2024.
I don't think that I have ever said that an illiberal left didn't exist. I have said that they aren't a major problem (other than an image problem/electoral problem for would-be centrist Democrats).
The illiberal left is not about to seize control of the reins of the federal government, any time soon. They MIGHT help the MAGAts do so--by not turning out or going third party.
That is a problem that Democrats have to solve.
One of the key things to note is that people conflate being anti-Israel or not pro-Israel as being anti-Semitic. That is an indicator of the central problem in this whole mess. Israel is an ethno-religious state. It must necessarily privilege its ethno-religious nature--because the state exists to provide a safe place for Jews.
Given what the Jews have experienced over the last few thousand years, it is understandable that:
1) They want such a thing; and
2) It tends to operate the way it operates.
Without the cultural baggage/links between Judaism and Christianity and without the sense of guilt that permeates relations between Jews and European civilization, we probably would not actually like the Jewish state much, TBH. It might not even exist, TBH.
A lot of younger people, less inured in these things and free of guilt, obviously don't... and like Americans often do (for whatever reason) they are rooting for what they see as the underdogs (regardless of vile those underdogs can be).
We are REALLY good at holding our noses at or ignoring the sins of whatever group we want to favor. We do it continually. A lot of American do it in favor of Israel.
This isn't about who did what to whom, when and how bad it was in relation what other people did. That is an argument that has no end and whose conclusions depend very much on a number of contingent factors and biases--and it ultimately leads NOWHERE other than to justifications for more and worse violence. Tit for tat. An eye for an eye.
It IS about what people perceive and feel in the contingent moment (regardless of facts)--of how anger, irritation, and fear (and maybe very rarely, hope) play out.
And a lot of these younger people do not want to be dragged into some war over all of this. Because it isn't people my age that are going to get dragged into it.
I am confused by Charlie’s statements as well. Once again it feels like a strawman argument. I have said, the said that the illiberal left does exist but it is small and has no power (not just politically but in our everyday politics) but there is nothing to be done but condemn them and move on. If October 7th didn’t change their mind nothing Biden says or does will do any better.
I feel like Charlie, like almost all never trumpers, always wants some sister souljah moment believing that somehow the 90s are like the 20s. It makes people feel good but accomplishes nothing electorally
"The illiberal left is not about to seize control of the reins of the federal government, any time soon. They MIGHT help the MAGAts do so--by not turning out or going third party.
That is a problem that Democrats have to solve."
That's why I'm beginning to worry they are a major problem, because I have no idea how we solve it. This is a very emotionally fraught issue, and I am afraid it has the potential to hijack admittedly low-propensity young voters with abortion-rights levels of passion, and we'll need everyone who might turn out to turn out and vote for Biden. This will be a close election and there is little margin for error. We could really use these votes, but if these youngsters have convinced themselves that President Biden is allied with a genocidal regime intent on punching down and eliminating an oppressed people, I'm pretty worried how it will impact the election in 2024.
All basically correct and all basically beyond our control.