I think maybe the point being made here is that illiberal, non-conservative kooks took over the GOP because they were dismissed as a small faction that wasn't representative of the whole party, and while everyone was being dismissive of them, they vacuumed up power by appealing to base instincts among an ~ 40% of people who labeled thems…
I think maybe the point being made here is that illiberal, non-conservative kooks took over the GOP because they were dismissed as a small faction that wasn't representative of the whole party, and while everyone was being dismissive of them, they vacuumed up power by appealing to base instincts among an ~ 40% of people who labeled themselves as conservative. If no one pays attention to, warns about, or takes seriously a movement of a similar type on the left, then there is a less than zero chance that the left will eventually find itself in a similar state. There IS a (currently) minority on the left that is populist, shallow, performative, and illiberal, and there are signs that these ideas are making inroads among younger voters. A lot of this does occur on college campuses, and it has been for years. And as with the surrender of the real conservatism in the GOP, if no one centrist pushes back on it, it will take over and grow. Pointing out that "most people" on campuses aren't "all that illiberal" isn't particularly relevant: yes, maybe there are a bunch of critical thinkers and centrists and still-liberal kids on campuses: but they aren't pushing back very hard against the folks who are having pro-terrorist rallies and hiding behind terms like "anti-Zionist" and "anti-colonialist" when what they really are doing is saying they're pro-terrorism and for the destruction of Israel. I don't think that anyone can point this out too much. If there are so many good kids with great critical thinking skills on campuses and among the liberals, then they would be plainly visible somewhere else besides, and not need defending in, the comments of section of a Bulwark article.
"If there are so many good kids with great critical thinking skills on campuses and among the liberals, then they would be plainly visible somewhere else besides"
Not sure this follows.
First, it doesn't seem like an issue that is getting broad coverage that is reaching into students' lives. My son is on a campus with 50K students and hasn't heard about or run across any pro-terrorist rallies. They might be there, but even if he was so inclined, there isn't an - anti-terrorist, both sides have blame and a point - organization to join and rally around.
Second, it is by no means a given that leftist students being assinine is a major threat to Democrats or democracy. Conceivable, sure, but great critical thinking skills can come to a different conclusion, and certainly can conclude that spending time and energy rallying on campus against such things isn't worth the effort and potential cost.
I think a major difference between the left and the right when it comes to the fringe capturing the party is that for the right, a big chunk of their base was already primed and ready for the dog whistles to become louder, and for an embrace of nativism. I don't see that on the left (in reverse). The broader left isn't going to embrace Hamas or champion Venezuelan economics.
I see what you're saying, and I respectfully disagree precisely because of my experience with conservatives, who I also believed were extremely unlikely to embrace isolationism and Russia-humping and a thrice-married rapist who holds Bibles upside down, and yet here we are. I think you are likely a thinking person, and so you assume that other people who stand with you on your side of the aisle are there because they are thinkers, too. Many conservatives who had principles believed that those among them, on their side of the aisle, were there because of their principles, and so dismissed the fringe until it was a tidal wave.
It is truly not every day that I am called naive! With the preamble that you make good points and I'm not here to poke at you with this tidbit: everyone who knows me and therefore typically refers to me as a tyrannical skeptic-bitch found this comment immensely fun.
Got to agree to disagree on this one. On the right it was an obvious sickness that was flamed and used for decades. Those who are sane on the right can stand around and think Trump is an anomaly but they are just ducking their own guilt (except Stewart Stevens.). There is discussion about how the far left won’t come out to vote for Biden and it’s because the Dems aren’t giving them the red meat that the Republicans fed the Jerry Faldwells and Pat Robertsons for decades.
I don't know that TikTok and other forms of social media aren't the driving force for this movement, and not the campuses themselves. Anecdotal evidence suggest it's social media. That I do take very seriously.
I think that's right. Insofar as this is a problem it is probably being driven more by Russian and other trolls on TikTok, Instagram, etc. Than by liberal professors on campus.
I think it's likely a combination of both social media and some influence from college campus / peer pressure. For the record, while TikTok has a ton of it, it's also extremely prevalent on Instagram. Even Linkendln has it's fair share which I don't think is a whole bunch of Gen Z's.
There's definitely something getting stirred up on TikTok, I've noticed, especially the last few days. Lots of angry bots in the comments and lots of RW media chasing down students asking if they would behead babies. It's horrible.
I think maybe the point being made here is that illiberal, non-conservative kooks took over the GOP because they were dismissed as a small faction that wasn't representative of the whole party, and while everyone was being dismissive of them, they vacuumed up power by appealing to base instincts among an ~ 40% of people who labeled themselves as conservative. If no one pays attention to, warns about, or takes seriously a movement of a similar type on the left, then there is a less than zero chance that the left will eventually find itself in a similar state. There IS a (currently) minority on the left that is populist, shallow, performative, and illiberal, and there are signs that these ideas are making inroads among younger voters. A lot of this does occur on college campuses, and it has been for years. And as with the surrender of the real conservatism in the GOP, if no one centrist pushes back on it, it will take over and grow. Pointing out that "most people" on campuses aren't "all that illiberal" isn't particularly relevant: yes, maybe there are a bunch of critical thinkers and centrists and still-liberal kids on campuses: but they aren't pushing back very hard against the folks who are having pro-terrorist rallies and hiding behind terms like "anti-Zionist" and "anti-colonialist" when what they really are doing is saying they're pro-terrorism and for the destruction of Israel. I don't think that anyone can point this out too much. If there are so many good kids with great critical thinking skills on campuses and among the liberals, then they would be plainly visible somewhere else besides, and not need defending in, the comments of section of a Bulwark article.
"If there are so many good kids with great critical thinking skills on campuses and among the liberals, then they would be plainly visible somewhere else besides"
Not sure this follows.
First, it doesn't seem like an issue that is getting broad coverage that is reaching into students' lives. My son is on a campus with 50K students and hasn't heard about or run across any pro-terrorist rallies. They might be there, but even if he was so inclined, there isn't an - anti-terrorist, both sides have blame and a point - organization to join and rally around.
Second, it is by no means a given that leftist students being assinine is a major threat to Democrats or democracy. Conceivable, sure, but great critical thinking skills can come to a different conclusion, and certainly can conclude that spending time and energy rallying on campus against such things isn't worth the effort and potential cost.
I think a major difference between the left and the right when it comes to the fringe capturing the party is that for the right, a big chunk of their base was already primed and ready for the dog whistles to become louder, and for an embrace of nativism. I don't see that on the left (in reverse). The broader left isn't going to embrace Hamas or champion Venezuelan economics.
I see what you're saying, and I respectfully disagree precisely because of my experience with conservatives, who I also believed were extremely unlikely to embrace isolationism and Russia-humping and a thrice-married rapist who holds Bibles upside down, and yet here we are. I think you are likely a thinking person, and so you assume that other people who stand with you on your side of the aisle are there because they are thinkers, too. Many conservatives who had principles believed that those among them, on their side of the aisle, were there because of their principles, and so dismissed the fringe until it was a tidal wave.
It is truly not every day that I am called naive! With the preamble that you make good points and I'm not here to poke at you with this tidbit: everyone who knows me and therefore typically refers to me as a tyrannical skeptic-bitch found this comment immensely fun.
Got to agree to disagree on this one. On the right it was an obvious sickness that was flamed and used for decades. Those who are sane on the right can stand around and think Trump is an anomaly but they are just ducking their own guilt (except Stewart Stevens.). There is discussion about how the far left won’t come out to vote for Biden and it’s because the Dems aren’t giving them the red meat that the Republicans fed the Jerry Faldwells and Pat Robertsons for decades.
I don't know that TikTok and other forms of social media aren't the driving force for this movement, and not the campuses themselves. Anecdotal evidence suggest it's social media. That I do take very seriously.
I think that's right. Insofar as this is a problem it is probably being driven more by Russian and other trolls on TikTok, Instagram, etc. Than by liberal professors on campus.
I think it's likely a combination of both social media and some influence from college campus / peer pressure. For the record, while TikTok has a ton of it, it's also extremely prevalent on Instagram. Even Linkendln has it's fair share which I don't think is a whole bunch of Gen Z's.
There's definitely something getting stirred up on TikTok, I've noticed, especially the last few days. Lots of angry bots in the comments and lots of RW media chasing down students asking if they would behead babies. It's horrible.
Thank you. Best comment of the day, and completely aligned with what is my understanding of the Bulwark’s mission.