I'll humbly take a shot at addressing some of these points:
Shawn doesn't make a distinction between how governance by the totality of the Democratic coalition has actually worked out compared to what the majority of the Party wanted to do. The message that moderate voters absorbed over the battles about BBB and other spending plans is that the vast majority of Democratic members of Congress wanted nothing more than to spend gobsmacking amounts of money and that the only thing that prevented them from doing so were a couple of moderate Senators that the rest of the Party hates. Now we could debate the accuracy of this narrative, but this narrative has taken hold and Democrats in their political incompetence let it take hold, which has destroyed the Party's standing with independents. Similarly with the "defund the police" story. The facts may be that police funding has risen, but if voters believe that a large portion of the Party, if they could have their way, would abolish the police (and this is how the "defund" rhetoric is interpreted by voters), this is just political suicide.
The narrative rules over the reality. I have said this multiple times.
The reality is that people DO NOT KNOW what they want WRT a lot of things. Sure they can get behind a general idea. Infrastructure! Voting rights!
Punchy little catchphrases or vague general ideas and principles. All in.
THEN you start talking about actually doing it. About what has to be done. About what it will cost. About how it will be paid for--and the popularity falls out the bottom--particularly after your opponents scaremonger and misrepresent the hell out of it.
Then, if you are lucky, you get some half-assed version of the original idea, full of compromises to get the reluctant members of your party to fall in line and the usual poison pills that corporate America demands that don't seem like much but that have been cunningly designed to gut whatever it is that you are trying to do.
The Democrats have consistently failed to set the narrative since the 80s.
They have consistently gone through what I have outlined above, turning out crappy (but at least possible) policy and action that they then fail to capitalize on because they do not self-promote and they allow something (for example) to become Obamacare (which people hate for some reason) while they like the ACA (which is Obamacare but without the spin narrative).
When are these people going to pull their heads out of their ass? The Republic KINDA depends upon them doing so.
Maybe America needs to get cornholed by the GoP and Trump for a decade or so before they wise up--but I sincerely doubt the mass of America will ever get that wise.
Well said. Regarding self promotion, my very trumpy neighbors next door with 4 children still believe that the child tax credit money they enjoyed each month was from a former trump policy that didn't go into effect until 2021. He had planned it ahead for his 2nd term. ЁЯЩД I tried to talk to them about the ARP and all I got was "fake news".
Another thing I saw yesterday that made me think about self promotion was a side by side clip of Trump on the WH balcony for the 2019 Easter thing. Instead of talking to the children he very inappropriately sold whatever economic BS he was pushing at the time. The man never missed an opportunity to message and sell.
Last weekend at the same event with Biden, Jill excitedly, and appropriately, spoke to the children and parents from the balcony with Joe at her side, silent.
Average voters do not know what you have done for them unless repeatedly told, as sad as that is.
The problem is the people that'll get cornholed (racial minorities, non-white immigrants, LGBTQ people, and non-Christians) aren't the ones who need to learn the lesson
In the end, the reality is that everyone will get cornholed that isn't a member of the ruling clique or a corp that is willing to bend the knee to the GoP (which most will, in the end).
It will just take a while for the cornholing to become obvious.
The reality of the situation as I see it is that the federal GOP has a strategic objective тАФ minority rule тАФ and a few ways to help achieve it, two of which are giving free rein to the rabid conspiracists and carnival barkers in government and outside it, and obstructing Biden and all Democrats everywhere via the Senate filibuster / activism from the remade judiciary.
Effectively, to your first point, we simply canтАЩt have much in the way of governance: just one reconciliation bill per period that will pass the bad-faith and unknowable-in-advance tests of Manchin and Sinema, show legislation that wonтАЩt be passed in the House, and the Senate doing its best to slow-walk BidenтАЩs nominees to fill out the executive branch.
I donтАЩt think the GOP is going to turn on these goals or methods. They probably see them as having had a great deal of success so far.
> The message that moderate voters absorbed тАж we could debate the accuracy of this narrative тАж Democrats in their political incompetence let it take hold.
So as for the second half, I donтАЩt find the way youтАЩve assigned тАЬDemocratsтАЭ responsibility for this outcome very convincing or specific.
They like to think they are, but they aren't. Its the thoughts, feels, perceptions, and narratives that drive votes, not actual policy. Not actual governance (or lack thereof)
So my takeaway should be that moderates are contemptable, so fuck 'em. I should rather lose and let the fascists take over then find a way to work with them. After all, I'd still have my high opinion of myself to keep me warm at night.
This is why I will never go along even with some of your (their) ( general
you)more reasonable ideas...
As long as you think you are superior to moderates and be condescending and arrogant, why would we?
You don't win converts by insulting them
And good luck getting major things done without us (I am willing to compromise and I neither think I am all right and better than you, nor that we have to be enemies) ...unless, like your mirror image on the right you intend to kill us all?
Yes, when they come for me in the black Lada on my way to to concentration camp, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I was right about them all along. We can high five each other! If they put us in the same cell.
How is it "moderate" to vote for a party who has direct ties to white nationalists like VDare, Nick Fuentes, and The Oath Keepers?
What good is compromising with said moderates on basic voting and civil rights protections? Sounds like you lose nothing if these people get their way, so it's no skin off your nose if they take over. Must be nice to be in such a safe situation
Real world politics: I live in Nebraska. The Democrats are running a weak candidate for governor who obviously has no chance of winning. So the race for governor in reality is between three Republicans in the Republican primary. I'm a registered Democrat but I am considering temporarily registering as a Republican so I can vote in the primary which is the real election. (I will still vote for the Democrat in the general.) One of the three Republican candidates is being attacked in advertising for "wokeness" for saying that he "see's racism everywhere." (He's on videotape saying exactly that.) Does this candidate have direct ties to "white nationalists like VDare, Nick Fuentes, and The Oath Keepers?" I certainly believe that charge would be unfair. In the real world, I find Manichean worldviews like yours not very helpful.
I would love to see ANY of these points addressed before I read yet another run-to-the-middle screed.
I'll humbly take a shot at addressing some of these points:
Shawn doesn't make a distinction between how governance by the totality of the Democratic coalition has actually worked out compared to what the majority of the Party wanted to do. The message that moderate voters absorbed over the battles about BBB and other spending plans is that the vast majority of Democratic members of Congress wanted nothing more than to spend gobsmacking amounts of money and that the only thing that prevented them from doing so were a couple of moderate Senators that the rest of the Party hates. Now we could debate the accuracy of this narrative, but this narrative has taken hold and Democrats in their political incompetence let it take hold, which has destroyed the Party's standing with independents. Similarly with the "defund the police" story. The facts may be that police funding has risen, but if voters believe that a large portion of the Party, if they could have their way, would abolish the police (and this is how the "defund" rhetoric is interpreted by voters), this is just political suicide.
The narrative rules over the reality. I have said this multiple times.
The reality is that people DO NOT KNOW what they want WRT a lot of things. Sure they can get behind a general idea. Infrastructure! Voting rights!
Punchy little catchphrases or vague general ideas and principles. All in.
THEN you start talking about actually doing it. About what has to be done. About what it will cost. About how it will be paid for--and the popularity falls out the bottom--particularly after your opponents scaremonger and misrepresent the hell out of it.
Then, if you are lucky, you get some half-assed version of the original idea, full of compromises to get the reluctant members of your party to fall in line and the usual poison pills that corporate America demands that don't seem like much but that have been cunningly designed to gut whatever it is that you are trying to do.
The Democrats have consistently failed to set the narrative since the 80s.
They have consistently gone through what I have outlined above, turning out crappy (but at least possible) policy and action that they then fail to capitalize on because they do not self-promote and they allow something (for example) to become Obamacare (which people hate for some reason) while they like the ACA (which is Obamacare but without the spin narrative).
When are these people going to pull their heads out of their ass? The Republic KINDA depends upon them doing so.
Maybe America needs to get cornholed by the GoP and Trump for a decade or so before they wise up--but I sincerely doubt the mass of America will ever get that wise.
Well said. Regarding self promotion, my very trumpy neighbors next door with 4 children still believe that the child tax credit money they enjoyed each month was from a former trump policy that didn't go into effect until 2021. He had planned it ahead for his 2nd term. ЁЯЩД I tried to talk to them about the ARP and all I got was "fake news".
Another thing I saw yesterday that made me think about self promotion was a side by side clip of Trump on the WH balcony for the 2019 Easter thing. Instead of talking to the children he very inappropriately sold whatever economic BS he was pushing at the time. The man never missed an opportunity to message and sell.
Last weekend at the same event with Biden, Jill excitedly, and appropriately, spoke to the children and parents from the balcony with Joe at her side, silent.
Average voters do not know what you have done for them unless repeatedly told, as sad as that is.
Well said. Unfortunately, accurate.
The problem is the people that'll get cornholed (racial minorities, non-white immigrants, LGBTQ people, and non-Christians) aren't the ones who need to learn the lesson
In the end, the reality is that everyone will get cornholed that isn't a member of the ruling clique or a corp that is willing to bend the knee to the GoP (which most will, in the end).
It will just take a while for the cornholing to become obvious.
The reality of the situation as I see it is that the federal GOP has a strategic objective тАФ minority rule тАФ and a few ways to help achieve it, two of which are giving free rein to the rabid conspiracists and carnival barkers in government and outside it, and obstructing Biden and all Democrats everywhere via the Senate filibuster / activism from the remade judiciary.
Effectively, to your first point, we simply canтАЩt have much in the way of governance: just one reconciliation bill per period that will pass the bad-faith and unknowable-in-advance tests of Manchin and Sinema, show legislation that wonтАЩt be passed in the House, and the Senate doing its best to slow-walk BidenтАЩs nominees to fill out the executive branch.
I donтАЩt think the GOP is going to turn on these goals or methods. They probably see them as having had a great deal of success so far.
> The message that moderate voters absorbed тАж we could debate the accuracy of this narrative тАж Democrats in their political incompetence let it take hold.
So as for the second half, I donтАЩt find the way youтАЩve assigned тАЬDemocratsтАЭ responsibility for this outcome very convincing or specific.
So belief and fee fees matter more than reality? I thought these rock ribbed "swing voters" were gimlet-eyed realists
They like to think they are, but they aren't. Its the thoughts, feels, perceptions, and narratives that drive votes, not actual policy. Not actual governance (or lack thereof)
So my takeaway should be that moderates are contemptable, so fuck 'em. I should rather lose and let the fascists take over then find a way to work with them. After all, I'd still have my high opinion of myself to keep me warm at night.
This is why I will never go along even with some of your (their) ( general
you)more reasonable ideas...
As long as you think you are superior to moderates and be condescending and arrogant, why would we?
You don't win converts by insulting them
And good luck getting major things done without us (I am willing to compromise and I neither think I am all right and better than you, nor that we have to be enemies) ...unless, like your mirror image on the right you intend to kill us all?
Yes, when they come for me in the black Lada on my way to to concentration camp, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I was right about them all along. We can high five each other! If they put us in the same cell.
"black Lada" - Love it
Actually it might be a couple of Proud boys in an F-150.
F-150s are for female genitalia. 3/4 ton Silverados, Sierras, and Rams with a base price of 70-80k are Maga approved.
I wouldn't know, I'm an effete liberal with two honda fits.
But around here there are a lot of F-150's and many of the guys who drive them have tatoos and MAGA stuff decorating their trucks and their persons.
there are a lot of fake tough guys
How is it "moderate" to vote for a party who has direct ties to white nationalists like VDare, Nick Fuentes, and The Oath Keepers?
What good is compromising with said moderates on basic voting and civil rights protections? Sounds like you lose nothing if these people get their way, so it's no skin off your nose if they take over. Must be nice to be in such a safe situation
Real world politics: I live in Nebraska. The Democrats are running a weak candidate for governor who obviously has no chance of winning. So the race for governor in reality is between three Republicans in the Republican primary. I'm a registered Democrat but I am considering temporarily registering as a Republican so I can vote in the primary which is the real election. (I will still vote for the Democrat in the general.) One of the three Republican candidates is being attacked in advertising for "wokeness" for saying that he "see's racism everywhere." (He's on videotape saying exactly that.) Does this candidate have direct ties to "white nationalists like VDare, Nick Fuentes, and The Oath Keepers?" I certainly believe that charge would be unfair. In the real world, I find Manichean worldviews like yours not very helpful.
Well they are when it's YOUR feelings, not theirs.