I love these podcasts for a variety of reasons mostly for the open dialogue. I think you are missing one thing. Many commentators on both the right and left seem to think that Neil Young is the one who will lose because Joe Rogan is so popular and blah blah blah. In this specific moment you are absolutely correct, however; Joe Rogan will not pass the "Beatle test". In 50 years people will still be listening to Neil Young. In 50 years no one will remember who Joe Rogan was.
Feb 2, 2022·edited Feb 2, 2022Liked by Sonny Bunch
I appreciate this discussion and its an example of why I subscribe. One of my favorite points I continue to see on The Bulwark is the need to get out into our communities and have conversations with people we may not agree with. I don't think there is any substitute for the examples which we set in our own personal sphere.
I know this sounds preachy but In a free society, one of the most important disciplines we can practice is to allow others to have their opinions even if those opinions are going to, as many think, lead to "...the end life as we know it...", but aren't they all? A lot of the polarization and toxicity exists because it seems we keep wanting to "save the world" by shutting down opinions we may view as a threat. The net result of that kind of approach is probably loss of trust for our own position, at best, and, worse, outright defiance from the "other side", whatever that may be.
Frank Lee is the quality of critical thinker and voter who make the Josh Hawleys possible. As JVL has recently noted, the problems of the republican party are problems of the base. See comments below.
I should've tried to nip that thread in the bud yesterday, but: let's try and stay on topic and also keep it civil. I'd rather this post not devolve into a forum where people are taking shots at each other rather than discussing the topic of the podcast.
You are correct, of course. I read JVL earlier this week and the Frank Lee comments slapped me in the face with the reality of the problem. Sorry, I'll try to do better. FYI: My music is on Spotify but virtually no one listens to it and I make nada from the few plays that I get. Pulling my music will have no public impact whatsoever. I'm staying just to humble brag that I have my own "station" on Spotify. 😎
One of my favorite things about NYC is there are three arthouse theaters within like 0.5 a mile of each other and they all show different stuff. I honestly couldn't watch this on my TV.
I’m tired of corporations supporting misinformation and anti-democratic politicians and groups. Not many people are making a stand. It’s really time to make a public stand. I completely support a Neil Young. Spotify is supporting horse crap and worse.
I think people misunderstand these terms. They fought for freedom from government oppression. They fought against war. They never said that you shouldn't have freedom of association. If Spotify wants to produce a program that spreads lies they can do so. Young, Mitchell, and the others simply don't want to be associated with them. Never once did they call for Rogan to be banned.
That is some mental masturbation. Rogan is not spreading lies.
Do you people even recognize the telegraphing of your belief that the media can be used to push propaganda that people don't have the innate intelligence or other resources to evaluate for themselves?
Cancel Rogan while allowing CNN, MSNBC and The View spew their vile vitriol and lies?
These old Hippies are now supporting the same MAN that they railed against when they were young. It makes sense. They are in the professional entertainment business people that want to sell to the global market. To allow the US economy to be swallowed up into a Klaus Schwabb organism of a global EU with the CCP in charge the American middle-class needs to be controlled and subjugated. So free-thinkers like Rogan need to be silenced. You know why they are targeting him? The same reason they targeted professional sports... the consumer of that entertainment is the demographic they need to subjugate and destroy.
They are hypocrites.
"Well, I heard Mr. Young sing about her Well, I heard ol' Neil put her down Well, I hope Neil Young will remember A Southern man don't need him around anyhow."
When Donald Trump is the only answer and to the GOP he is the one and only answer, we have a problem. How did we manage ALL those years without him. It’s freaking weird.
We didn't manage. One term of Bush-1 and then two terms of Clinton. Then Bush-2 which was the same as Clinton, and then 2 terrible years of Obama. If it was not for Trump we would have another Obama called Hillary.
The GOP has no constituents left. They don't control Wall Street nor big business. They are losing the energy industry. They don't have any connection to media ownership or Hollywood. They are no longer the wealthy. They don't have minorities, women. They are despised on the campuses.
The Democrats took all of it and ejected the working class. Trump picked up the working class. Now the old establishment GOP wants that ejected them too as it is too dirty for their ivy league parties. But that means that the GOP is just nothing... nothing at all. No constituents other than a shrinking group of old white elites that dream of Reagan.
I am working class that worked my up to elite economic status. I see it all. And the old GOP establishment needs to get the reform or get lost.
The GOP has won a majority of votes in exactly one election in the last 32 years. That’s because it is out of step. Under Trump the GOP lost even more. The only people Trump has brought into the GOP are the white supremacists. A party designed around nothing but lies to serve the Big Lie.
So, wow, you are saying only trump can be king of American. Let’s not even call it America anymore. You are calling for a dictatorship. That is what you are expressing. Your view is extreme beyond what is okay. More then half of us highly disagree with you. There was no ballot harvesting. Just Trump cheating and lying. Last troll comment I respond to. You are too far gone.
Tump king? No, Trump President. Dully elected like in 2016. Unless there is another candidate in the primaries that voters like better. But the more the Democrats keep doing their Democrat stuff, the more likely it is that any candidate that does get elected as POTUS, is going to have to be a committed swamp cleaner.
I would prefer someone else other than Trump, but he or she will just get trashed the same from the trash on the left and corporate media.
If Reagan were alive and running today, they would brand him a racist, misogynist, anti-gender alphabet... they would trot out 4 women to say that he groped them or looked them with lust in his eyes. They would resist and protest violently... burning down cities while demanding socialism. They would blame Reagan for being a KKK member in bed with the Proud Boys.
They would do all this and Reagan would lose. Because it isn't the 80s and Republicans are weak and feckless and losers. The radicals have multiplied and they infest everything... thanks to the Republicans ignoring them and virtue signaling that they agree with that crap. We need a POTUS with a flame thrower to clean up all that junk.
I know. Without his stellar record where was the winning. Yes, I know that he had more people vote against him than any other President in history. That he lost the House and Senate. Twice. That he lost every single attempt to undermine the Constitution. That he degraded American credibility to its lowest level ever. But hey. Winning and fake news snd sex pizza and all that.
You have been spun well, or you are a spinner yourself.
Trump got more votes than any other incumbent in history. In terms of the record for midterms that almost always turn to the other party than the one in the white house, the Democrats could not take back the Senate and failed to meet expectations in the House.
Really... after all those four years of resistance and media attacks of Trump... the Democrats could not take back the Senate and lost seats in the House. And THAT is what you are crowing about?!
If not for the Pandemic where Democrats could ballot harvest, Trump would still be POTUS, the Senate would still be in GOP hands, and the House would have many fewer Dems for old Nancy to rely on.
The degrading of American credibility has never been lower than now after you and your friends elected the Biden clown show.
Biden's approval rating is lower than Trump's and given the fake news manipulation of the polls, it is likely the lowest since approval ratings have been polled.
Funny, I was not a supporter of Trump during the primaries. However, when it was between him and dirty Hillary, no way dirty Hillary gets my vote. And then the Democrats go and be the very terrible scourge on the country that Trump said they would be... and the media said was hyperbole. He was right. The voters see it and now know it. Minorities are jumping off the Dem ship in droves. Suburban moms have had the fog lifted to see that the Democrats are ruled by the radical fems and man-bun wearing radical semi-men. And thus the Democrats are going to be responsible for the re-election of Donald J. Trump in 2024.
Trump got 3 million fewer votes than Clinton and and 7 million fewer than Biden. The majority of voter preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Do you realize what a lousy person you have to be that millions more prefer Clinton. The numbers are simple. The GOP is a minority party. That’s basic numbers and none of your “alternate facts” are going to change actual reality.
Rogan's program is spreading lies about COVID, about vaccines, and many other issues. That much is a fact. The rest of your drivel is just more silly conspiratorial nonsense. This Southern Man loves Neil Young. You know who else become strong friends with Mr. Young? Ronnie Van Zandt. I'll take the man of conscience over the snake oil salesman any day. People love to wonder why we never learn from history. Look at the American Right today and you can see why. They deny reality and refuse to read or understand. So enjoy your 3 hours a day of snake oil. I'll just go listen to some outstanding music.
My God, you people don't even see that you have been sucked in and turned into an Orwellian nightmare. This is a great study in psychology for how weak and gullible are so many that they can be so easily trained to turn the weapon on themselves and feel good about it. Sleepwalking clones of the collective of compliance.
So who gets to define what spreading lies and what is true? That is the essence of free speech getting canceled, and if the political forces were reversed, you and Neil would be screeching like stuck swine in opposition.
4 years of lies about Trump-Russia collusion. Of course you will say it wasn't a lie. But then you have to lie to make that claim. See how that works?
The difference between you and me apparently is that I support your freedom to lie and make a fool out of yourself with what you say and write.
The idea with free speech is that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, but that otherwise people are free to spout their ideas and opinions no matter how absurd. Just look at what you write for an example.
But based on my intensive reading and researching, Joe Rogan is more right than wrong. By the way, Denmark just canceled COVID. They realized that Joe Rogan was right and Fauci is a fraud.
I think that people keep mistaking what Young was doing. He never though that he would change Spotify. He simply wanted to get something out there. No one listened or cared when hundreds of medical professionals sent an open letter to Rogan. Now people are talking about it. Anyway, I got tired of the conversation and decided to just play some Neil Young from Apple Music.
I love these podcasts for a variety of reasons mostly for the open dialogue. I think you are missing one thing. Many commentators on both the right and left seem to think that Neil Young is the one who will lose because Joe Rogan is so popular and blah blah blah. In this specific moment you are absolutely correct, however; Joe Rogan will not pass the "Beatle test". In 50 years people will still be listening to Neil Young. In 50 years no one will remember who Joe Rogan was.
Sure, Rogan is spreading lies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1QgkdDXlao
I appreciate this discussion and its an example of why I subscribe. One of my favorite points I continue to see on The Bulwark is the need to get out into our communities and have conversations with people we may not agree with. I don't think there is any substitute for the examples which we set in our own personal sphere.
I know this sounds preachy but In a free society, one of the most important disciplines we can practice is to allow others to have their opinions even if those opinions are going to, as many think, lead to "...the end life as we know it...", but aren't they all? A lot of the polarization and toxicity exists because it seems we keep wanting to "save the world" by shutting down opinions we may view as a threat. The net result of that kind of approach is probably loss of trust for our own position, at best, and, worse, outright defiance from the "other side", whatever that may be.
Frank Lee is the quality of critical thinker and voter who make the Josh Hawleys possible. As JVL has recently noted, the problems of the republican party are problems of the base. See comments below.
I should've tried to nip that thread in the bud yesterday, but: let's try and stay on topic and also keep it civil. I'd rather this post not devolve into a forum where people are taking shots at each other rather than discussing the topic of the podcast.
You are correct, of course. I read JVL earlier this week and the Frank Lee comments slapped me in the face with the reality of the problem. Sorry, I'll try to do better. FYI: My music is on Spotify but virtually no one listens to it and I make nada from the few plays that I get. Pulling my music will have no public impact whatsoever. I'm staying just to humble brag that I have my own "station" on Spotify. 😎
I fully subscribe to Sonny's (to all three, in fact) point of view on Young v Rogan. The 20mins of discussion in this episode are a must-listen
Thanks! Make sure to forward it on to a friend; always looking for new, reasonably minded listeners.
A Hero sounds so good I want to watch in theaters.
Sadly not a movie that would've gotten much play even in the before-times.
One of my favorite things about NYC is there are three arthouse theaters within like 0.5 a mile of each other and they all show different stuff. I honestly couldn't watch this on my TV.
Props on the WAPO piece.
Thanks!
I’m tired of corporations supporting misinformation and anti-democratic politicians and groups. Not many people are making a stand. It’s really time to make a public stand. I completely support a Neil Young. Spotify is supporting horse crap and worse.
Goebbels would be proud of you son.
OK, Godwin's Law activated! Frank, your points throughout this thread are taken, I think it's time to give it a rest.
These old hippies use to protest for freedom of speech and expression. This is just another example of why kids should not do drugs.
I think people misunderstand these terms. They fought for freedom from government oppression. They fought against war. They never said that you shouldn't have freedom of association. If Spotify wants to produce a program that spreads lies they can do so. Young, Mitchell, and the others simply don't want to be associated with them. Never once did they call for Rogan to be banned.
That is some mental masturbation. Rogan is not spreading lies.
Do you people even recognize the telegraphing of your belief that the media can be used to push propaganda that people don't have the innate intelligence or other resources to evaluate for themselves?
Cancel Rogan while allowing CNN, MSNBC and The View spew their vile vitriol and lies?
These old Hippies are now supporting the same MAN that they railed against when they were young. It makes sense. They are in the professional entertainment business people that want to sell to the global market. To allow the US economy to be swallowed up into a Klaus Schwabb organism of a global EU with the CCP in charge the American middle-class needs to be controlled and subjugated. So free-thinkers like Rogan need to be silenced. You know why they are targeting him? The same reason they targeted professional sports... the consumer of that entertainment is the demographic they need to subjugate and destroy.
They are hypocrites.
"Well, I heard Mr. Young sing about her Well, I heard ol' Neil put her down Well, I hope Neil Young will remember A Southern man don't need him around anyhow."
When Donald Trump is the only answer and to the GOP he is the one and only answer, we have a problem. How did we manage ALL those years without him. It’s freaking weird.
We didn't manage. One term of Bush-1 and then two terms of Clinton. Then Bush-2 which was the same as Clinton, and then 2 terrible years of Obama. If it was not for Trump we would have another Obama called Hillary.
The GOP has no constituents left. They don't control Wall Street nor big business. They are losing the energy industry. They don't have any connection to media ownership or Hollywood. They are no longer the wealthy. They don't have minorities, women. They are despised on the campuses.
The Democrats took all of it and ejected the working class. Trump picked up the working class. Now the old establishment GOP wants that ejected them too as it is too dirty for their ivy league parties. But that means that the GOP is just nothing... nothing at all. No constituents other than a shrinking group of old white elites that dream of Reagan.
I am working class that worked my up to elite economic status. I see it all. And the old GOP establishment needs to get the reform or get lost.
The GOP has won a majority of votes in exactly one election in the last 32 years. That’s because it is out of step. Under Trump the GOP lost even more. The only people Trump has brought into the GOP are the white supremacists. A party designed around nothing but lies to serve the Big Lie.
"White Supremacists". There it is. You sir, are not worth my time. A brainwashed clone regurgitating CNN CTR talking points... which are neoracist.
Without Ross Perot the US would be a much better place today because the Clintons would have never got in the White House.
I am going to bookmark you and come back after the Nov election.
Nov 2016 must have been real difficult for you. Nov 2024 you can relive it again.
Later!
So, wow, you are saying only trump can be king of American. Let’s not even call it America anymore. You are calling for a dictatorship. That is what you are expressing. Your view is extreme beyond what is okay. More then half of us highly disagree with you. There was no ballot harvesting. Just Trump cheating and lying. Last troll comment I respond to. You are too far gone.
Tump king? No, Trump President. Dully elected like in 2016. Unless there is another candidate in the primaries that voters like better. But the more the Democrats keep doing their Democrat stuff, the more likely it is that any candidate that does get elected as POTUS, is going to have to be a committed swamp cleaner.
I would prefer someone else other than Trump, but he or she will just get trashed the same from the trash on the left and corporate media.
If Reagan were alive and running today, they would brand him a racist, misogynist, anti-gender alphabet... they would trot out 4 women to say that he groped them or looked them with lust in his eyes. They would resist and protest violently... burning down cities while demanding socialism. They would blame Reagan for being a KKK member in bed with the Proud Boys.
They would do all this and Reagan would lose. Because it isn't the 80s and Republicans are weak and feckless and losers. The radicals have multiplied and they infest everything... thanks to the Republicans ignoring them and virtue signaling that they agree with that crap. We need a POTUS with a flame thrower to clean up all that junk.
I know. Without his stellar record where was the winning. Yes, I know that he had more people vote against him than any other President in history. That he lost the House and Senate. Twice. That he lost every single attempt to undermine the Constitution. That he degraded American credibility to its lowest level ever. But hey. Winning and fake news snd sex pizza and all that.
You have been spun well, or you are a spinner yourself.
Trump got more votes than any other incumbent in history. In terms of the record for midterms that almost always turn to the other party than the one in the white house, the Democrats could not take back the Senate and failed to meet expectations in the House.
Really... after all those four years of resistance and media attacks of Trump... the Democrats could not take back the Senate and lost seats in the House. And THAT is what you are crowing about?!
If not for the Pandemic where Democrats could ballot harvest, Trump would still be POTUS, the Senate would still be in GOP hands, and the House would have many fewer Dems for old Nancy to rely on.
The degrading of American credibility has never been lower than now after you and your friends elected the Biden clown show.
Biden's approval rating is lower than Trump's and given the fake news manipulation of the polls, it is likely the lowest since approval ratings have been polled.
Funny, I was not a supporter of Trump during the primaries. However, when it was between him and dirty Hillary, no way dirty Hillary gets my vote. And then the Democrats go and be the very terrible scourge on the country that Trump said they would be... and the media said was hyperbole. He was right. The voters see it and now know it. Minorities are jumping off the Dem ship in droves. Suburban moms have had the fog lifted to see that the Democrats are ruled by the radical fems and man-bun wearing radical semi-men. And thus the Democrats are going to be responsible for the re-election of Donald J. Trump in 2024.
Trump got 3 million fewer votes than Clinton and and 7 million fewer than Biden. The majority of voter preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. Do you realize what a lousy person you have to be that millions more prefer Clinton. The numbers are simple. The GOP is a minority party. That’s basic numbers and none of your “alternate facts” are going to change actual reality.
Rogan's program is spreading lies about COVID, about vaccines, and many other issues. That much is a fact. The rest of your drivel is just more silly conspiratorial nonsense. This Southern Man loves Neil Young. You know who else become strong friends with Mr. Young? Ronnie Van Zandt. I'll take the man of conscience over the snake oil salesman any day. People love to wonder why we never learn from history. Look at the American Right today and you can see why. They deny reality and refuse to read or understand. So enjoy your 3 hours a day of snake oil. I'll just go listen to some outstanding music.
My God, you people don't even see that you have been sucked in and turned into an Orwellian nightmare. This is a great study in psychology for how weak and gullible are so many that they can be so easily trained to turn the weapon on themselves and feel good about it. Sleepwalking clones of the collective of compliance.
So who gets to define what spreading lies and what is true? That is the essence of free speech getting canceled, and if the political forces were reversed, you and Neil would be screeching like stuck swine in opposition.
4 years of lies about Trump-Russia collusion. Of course you will say it wasn't a lie. But then you have to lie to make that claim. See how that works?
The difference between you and me apparently is that I support your freedom to lie and make a fool out of yourself with what you say and write.
The idea with free speech is that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, but that otherwise people are free to spout their ideas and opinions no matter how absurd. Just look at what you write for an example.
But based on my intensive reading and researching, Joe Rogan is more right than wrong. By the way, Denmark just canceled COVID. They realized that Joe Rogan was right and Fauci is a fraud.
So many words to say absolutely nothing at all.
I think that people keep mistaking what Young was doing. He never though that he would change Spotify. He simply wanted to get something out there. No one listened or cared when hundreds of medical professionals sent an open letter to Rogan. Now people are talking about it. Anyway, I got tired of the conversation and decided to just play some Neil Young from Apple Music.