298 Comments
User's avatar
wiredog's avatar

Who among us hasn't drunk a fifth of bourbon and suddenly, inexplicably, arrived in a Waffle House two states away?

Kass McGann's avatar

Indeed, is it not the only way one gets to a Waffle House?

Jeri in Tx's avatar

This is screaming for an SNL Waffle House skit.

Dave Yell's avatar

I just love Jost's depiction of Champaign Pete! It is right there with Tina Fey's Sarah Palin.

Kass McGann's avatar

I'm shocked they didn't do it last weekend, but honestly, there was so much good material this week.

Dave Yell's avatar

I can't wait to see them depict DJT as Christ!

J AZ's avatar

Tough call tho. Satire DOES have some moral compass 🤔

Lisa Shampine's avatar

No, no, it will be Trump as a doctor. In a white robe with a red surcoat on. And a halo. And golden light beaming from his hands. You know, like every other doctor out there.

Kathy Balles's avatar

We don't have Waffle Houses around here, but seems like a good place to post the one they did do. My understanding is it's all too accurate.

https://youtu.be/KYNFqmu2toI?si=oDmjzGaSVJdE8oPz

Jeri in Tx's avatar

Waffle House can't be beat if you're starting back home after spending a weekend in Arkansas. When you're groggy, hungry for carbs, need coffee, it's a lifesaver. And they are unpretentious. Of course YMMV, and not all WHs are top notch.

Dave Yell's avatar

Thanks, Kathy. That s fantastic!

rlritt's avatar

Ha ha. So true. Every trip to the Waffle House is an accident

OJVV's avatar

I think it's a requirement to eat at Waffle House.

Susaness's avatar

'round these parts -- yeppers inside the Beltway -- we call it "Wafle House." Needed that extra "f' for telefort... or something....

Justin Lee's avatar

For me, it was tequila and an IHOP.

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

I've never felt so seen.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

I will not hold your hair back.

Deutschmeister's avatar

Waffle House, no. Skyline Chili, yes. It's a Cincinnati and Cincinnatian thing.

I also had the good fortune to dine with John Lennon while there and pick his brains after so much time away from us. For the record, he confirmed it: the walrus was Paul.

Dave Yell's avatar

You mean Paul wasn't dead? :) Lennon/McCartney, Beatles: The GOAT!

OJVV's avatar

Skyline? You must be confusing this with Gold Star.

TH's avatar

As the Hit King said, "Dem dogs are gooood!"

But if we're talking about crazy late hours, you can't beat Camp Washington Chili. Unless it's a Saturday night

mgnt's avatar

Fortunately, teleporting while intoxicated is not a crime. It would have been a felony to drive.

Dave's avatar

Assuming the Waffle House was open for business, but if it wasn't then this would be breaking and entering... well "entering", I guess the "breaking" part didn't happen per se

drlemaster's avatar

Waffle House is always open, that's why they are one the best places to choose as a destination for you teleport.

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

Speak for yourself. That's never happened to me, but only because I've never lived in an area with Waffle Houses.

Kass McGann's avatar

Ya just need to drink more, son!

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

Or do my drinking in the South. (Not a lot of Waffle Houses in the Chicago area.)

TomD's avatar

Greasy sliders at White Castle.

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

You are a wise man with discriminating tastes. On that note, try the jalapeno cheese sliders.

Kass McGann's avatar

One expects you could be teleported anywhere though. I wonder what determines where you're teleported to?

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

Wearing ruby slippers?" There's no place like home, there's no place like home..."

Dave Yell's avatar

Beam me up Scotty?

Kass McGann's avatar

There we have it! Bravo!

wiredog's avatar

I know a guy who got teleported to Fiji from New Zealand.

Dave Yell's avatar

That is a plus for Chicago.

Dave Yell's avatar

I have heard that they are called Awful house.

TomD's avatar

It's hard to mess up what they serve.

Dave Yell's avatar

First time I went down that way on a trip my youngest son would count all the Waffle Houses. They dot the landscape, like Culvers in Wisconsin and Mn.. Culvers is better by a long road!

Reba Clough's avatar

The 'Awful Waffle' is also a common nickname.

drosophilist's avatar

Have a like for an awesome username.

Life ain’t easy for you, is it? 😊

Travis's avatar

JD single barrel barrel proof has me feeling like I could teleport sometimes

Mike Greer's avatar

Hmmm, I didn't know that Colt 45 counted as bourbon.

rlritt's avatar

Why can't he just say "I was loaded and blacked out." In my 20's, on more than one occasion, I was drinking in place and then found myself somewhere else when I sobered up. It happens.

Meko's avatar

Been there. I came to one morning curled up on top of a coin-operated dryer in the basement of an apartment complex. The dryer was still warm, so the residents had continued to use it while I slumbered. Who needs a blanket?

rlritt's avatar

True. And the vibrations probably rocked you to sleep.

Dave Yell's avatar

Beam me up Scotty!

Sharon Herrick's avatar

I was going to say: Who among us hasn't wished we could teleport ourselves out of this mess? Even to Waffle House, in a pinch. Cheers!

Don Gates's avatar

I thought that's what Waffle House was for.

Lisa Shampine's avatar

Honestly, that sounds like a prank my grandpa and his cousins would do...get a guy completely, blackout drunk, then put him on a bus foir Chicago or Louisville. (They were in Indianapolis).

Now that I think about it, my grandpa wasn't a nice guy, was he?

Geoff Shirley's avatar

Teleportation = blacking out?

Angie's avatar

ha ha..thanks

bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

But did Hegseth teleport with him?

EUWDTB's avatar

Perhaps it's finally time to stop the weird Anglo-American habit of using the word "liberal" as a synonym for "leftwing".

Historically, it has always referred to "freedom" and therefore "democracy". That's why Orban chose to call his neofascist regime "illiberal".

Geoff Anderson's avatar

Indeed. And the penchant from the right to use derogatory terms like "shitlib" and "libtard" to describe Democrats warps the concept and the term.

Alas I doubt that we will be able to undo that at this point.

bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

Thr current issue of The New Yorker has an article about how extreme rightwing, fringe political views are moving into the mainstream GOP. It's not a pretty picture

Daphne McHugh's avatar

I like the term MAGATard. Also MAGATurd.

TomD's avatar

I agree. "liberal" is the opposite of "totalitarian."

EUWDTB's avatar

Exactly. People without a moral compass will always turn any word into an insult. In the meantime, IF you want to be a "patriot" and therefore "for the people" and their freedom, "liberalism" is the word.

Then, of course, you can be a left-leaning or conservative-leaning liberal. Many self-declared "liberal" political parties in Europe for instance are socially progressive and economically pro "free trade". But they're all pro-democracy and against all forms (right or left) of fascism (defined as the "bundling" ("fasces" = "bundle", in Latin) of the power of the legislative and judicial branches of government into that of the executive branch, as the current neofascist GOP (including the current GOP Congress and many of its judges/justices) tries to do.

rlritt's avatar

Because American politics is all about marketing and branding. They sell politicians like tooth paste and vacuums.

EUWDTB's avatar

Why would that be true? What made you so cynical?

Walter Boggs's avatar

I usually refuse to discuss political labels, preferring to focus on ideas. If in the mood, though, I’ll say I’m a “liberal, like all of the founders”. That can start a good conversation.

EUWDTB's avatar

The only reason why people seem to avoid discussing "labels" is because indeed, weirdly enough, they tend to imagine that they ARE their political opinions.

The solution is not to drop the label (we need them to refer to specific political philosophies and then discuss their pros and cons) but... to stop the identification with them :-).

OJVV's avatar

It's a sad state of our civil discourse that the typical American cannot grasp a word to have more than one meaning when discussing democratic practices.

V J's avatar

truly. and there goes civil discourse, easy as that.

Walter Boggs's avatar

Incorrect. I avoid discussing labels because it steals precious time from discussing ideas.

EUWDTB's avatar

Labels are SHORTCUTS for ideas, so we VITALLY need them. The idea to throw them out, which is so predominant in the US today, is in and of itself undermining democracy. We need them to have real debates. The whole idea that a label would be a bad thing is ridiculous and counterproductive.

And it does come from the other bad habit in the US today, namely the belief that we ARE our political opinions. If you believe that, you'll imagine that someone who tries to prove them wrong is personally attacking you.

We need to (1) reintroduce labels and (2) stop identifying people with them.

If all thriving democracies can do this, why would the US not be able to learn it too... ?

Mark Green's avatar

Andrew, your "Your Rules" piece was well said. To summarize, Trump and JD are advocating that the United States of America follow the moral leadership of Iran's Revolutionary Guard. Wow!

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

This argument is a close cousin to the one that's become the darling of the MAGA faithful whenever you criticize Trump or one of his cabinet members. When mentioning Trump's habitual rakes-stepping on the economy, a redcap will typically respond with "but look at the 9% inflation we had under Biden." It never occurs to them that all they've proven - at best - is that both were terrible. Though I'm just a simple country lawyer, that's never struck me as a winning argument.

TomD's avatar

Both were terrible, but in Biden's case the triggers were a world-historic pandemic and a principled stand against Russian aggression.

Leros's avatar

And yet only one of them participated as a co-conspirator in a plot to have phony state electoral college ballots counted to steal the election from the lawful winner. When I play that card to MAGoids I usually hear crickets in response.

TomD's avatar

I've been there. The truly deplorable half-basket still thinks the FBI did 1/6.

Ben Johnson's avatar

potatoe, potatoh. Trump closed the border, unlike Biden. ;-)

(A lack of jobs and crazed secret police that go after citizen and non-citizen alike somehow caused migration to slow...Go figure.)

TomD's avatar

Biden was following immigration and asylum law while working to change aspects of it, while Trump's shutting the border down has involved violating US and international law in umpteen ways. And the crazy part is that MAGA thinks it's the other way around.

V J's avatar

here in MN, we still do not think of them as mainly police. as they dressed like military, just does not hold water

R Mercer's avatar

It is, in their minds, because the argument isn't about doing what is best or actually solving problems--it is simply about your guy being worse (by some metric) than our guy.

The shittiness of your side is justification and excuse for the shittiness of our side.

That is what the majority of "both sides" arguments are actually about.

V J's avatar

whataboutism, it's so sickening

rlritt's avatar

Like stupid bratty children.

V J's avatar
5hEdited

laptop, caravans, benghazi , for r mercer

ButWhatDoIKnow's avatar

Exactly.

Let's set our rules to the lowest common denominator in every category.

TomD's avatar

Kill the men, rape the women, steal the cattle, burn it all to the ground... .

TomD's avatar

I have seen/heard the same coming from other MAGA persons. It starts with "law of the jungle" talk such as what Stephen Miller was spewing awhile back.

Steven Insertname's avatar

The first argument is to justify <thing> saying that some "liberal" somewhere in the country did <thing>, also. If they can't dig up one of those, the argument degrades to "law of the jungle", because a couple thousand years of civilization don't count any more.

TomD's avatar

I've heard it mostly regarding the law of war. If opponents like the Iranians do not have clean hands, then we need not either. It's a classic race to the bottom.

V J's avatar

my own smart brother, well there have been slaves forever.

what the hell makes a person make a statement like that.

this is when he is defending police about another beating. crazytown

TomD's avatar

A while back I learned that Kevin Roberts, the Heritage guy, has a PHD in history frum UT-Austin. I read his dissertation, which was on slavery. it was very well done, but I left with a lingering sense Roberts thinks slavery can be done well or badly.

V J's avatar

Disturbing.

SandyG's avatar

Tell them that's unAmerican. Under our Constitution, we live by the rule of law.

TomD's avatar

Oh, I do. Bottom line, they believe our laws and Constitution are an anachronistic stone around our collective neck. It's why they are so dangerous.

SandyG's avatar

Their anti-racism gets in the way of them understanding what the rule of law is. Without it, we get Trump's might makes right. Explain that to them.

Weswolf's avatar

It's almost always some guy who looks like he'd either curl up into a ball or turn and run if someone so much as slapped him.

TomD's avatar

Never been in a fight that didn't involve lawyers.

Kass McGann's avatar

It's being reported in the Dutch press that Georgia Meloni has announced that Italy will now suspend its defense agreement with Israel. You can't snub the Pope to Italians and not expect repercussions!

Keith Wresch's avatar

When it comes to Trump, Meloni has had the car in a slow reverse with the backup lights on for a while.

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

Google "Homer Simpson disappearing into the bushes" - that's the vibe I'm getting.

Richard Thomas's avatar

It’s the same for all the ‘Trumpist’ European populist parties who thought they could ride his coat tails.

The threats to invade Greenland and, especially, his denigration of the war dead from NATO allies who assisted in Iraq and Afghanistan - even months later it’s still one of the most common topics brought up by callers on the talk radio shows my mother has on when I visit - had made him utterly toxic even before he decided to raise our gas prices by 25% (and counting).

In the UK Labour’s primary anti Reform UK advert I keep seeing on YouTube in advance of the upcoming local elections is essentially just a video of Nigel Farage saying positive things about Trump.

Weswolf's avatar

"NATO never did anything for us" is high on the list of most shameful Trump utterances.

SandyG's avatar

Thx for the tip. My conservative friend, who is Jewish, thinks what Trump said about the Pope is merely stupid. So I sent this to him, saying stupid has consequences.

Kass McGann's avatar

Oh it's stupid alright! Stupid as starting a war in the Middle East without any clear objectives or an exit strategy. Just sayin'.

Justin Lee's avatar

So, Egger torches Tony Gonzalez (R-TX) in the February 20th edition of Morning Shots, and just 52 days later, Gonzalez resigns from Congress. I think it's clear what happened here.

A Boy Named Pseu(donym)'s avatar

Another successful "Egging."

Duane Pierson's avatar

Gonzalez was a typical Republican - too busy teleporting to resign.

David Krupp's avatar

Will the people of Isreal reject Netanyahu as the Hungarians rejected Orban?

Richard Kane's avatar

We can only hope but I'm not optimistic.

Dave Yell's avatar

I don't see it. They support Bibi's bombing in Lebanon.

Arturo Bello's avatar

Bolsanaro was first. Orban was second.

SandyG's avatar

"Third time's the charm." Same with Vance. He "killed" Pope Francis, failed in negotiations with Iran and brought Orban's polling down. He's toxic. And, as Sarah often says about her focus groups, they don't like him. He's not a likable guy.

Dave Yell's avatar

I'm with Tim as far as JD is concerned. He is detestable and he always has that smug look. I am kind of thought that DJT gave him these impossible jobs lately as Trump's way to eliminate Vance in 28. Not unlike Biden handing Kamala impossible tasks late in his term.

SandyG's avatar

I made the same comparison to how Biden treated Harris.

Dave Yell's avatar

Great minds think a like, Sandy!

V J's avatar

keep on sayin' it Dave

Dave Yell's avatar

Just call me Give em hell, Yell!

DK's avatar
6hEdited

not as in Trump third term (just emphasizing that in case the Universe is only skimming through the replies whilst granting wishes) ;-)

Chris Lee's avatar

Trump thought that looked like himself as a doctor? No wonder no one knew health care could be so complicated!

Jeff the Original's avatar

The meme certainly explained how he was planning to cut drug prices by 600%.

rlritt's avatar

He plans to pray over us when we're sick.

Dave Yell's avatar

New plan in two weeks!

willoughby's avatar

One thing that struck me, reading accounts of the youth movement in Hungary and looking at the crowds of young people who gathered in Budapest to celebrate the victory over Orban (as hundreds of thousands had rallied in the days and weeks before the election), was the fact that these are serious people, these kids. They know their country's history, they know something about economics and culture, they are not unsophisticated politically, they are not slogan-driven and mood-driven.

Above all, they seem to have a sense that the world is bigger than they are--that there is something that matters more than themselves, that matters more than whether they've been "triggered" or "canceled" or whatever some algorithm has informed them they ought to be petulant about; that there are things that matter even if they don't feel good.

Then I look at our kids, here: the ones who don't turn out for No Kings because what's the point, the ones who tear up the campus in solidarity with [fill in the blank] but only so long as there's no chance they'll pay a real price for it, the ones who are signing on with Turning Point because it makes them feel "seen," the ones who are pretending to be converts to Christian faith because it affirms their manhood, the ones who are tradwifing or anti-tradwifing or counter-tradwifing or just ignoring the whole bloody business and getting high: and what I don't see is a generation of politically serious kids who understand the stakes.

Maybe I'm just too pessimistic--maybe there are millions of under-forties out there, fully aware of what the US is, or should be, or could be: maybe they're just waiting for their moment. Oh, how I wish they'd make themselves heard and seen.

Colleen Kochivar-Baker's avatar

Our young women are doing better in seeing something beyond themselves then our young men, but then our boys get to be boys much longer than our girls get to be girls.

Ellen Thomas's avatar

I get your pessimism, and yet I see my Bernie-bro, eat-the-rich, Hillary-rejecting 20-something son moving from cynical and disengaged to a delegate to the local DFL (Dem) regional caucus, not because he likes it but because "someone has to do it and no one else raised their hand."

Rachel Janfaza, who works with Sarah, had a really encouraging piece on "Votemaxxing" that I can no longer find on the website. I hope the results in Hungary help young people see that involvement in the process can really work.

Edit: found it! "hopemaxxing," not "votemaxxing." https://www.thebulwark.com/p/gen-z-is-ready-for-hope-and-change?utm_source=publication-search

Linda Oliver's avatar

Good on your son! Young people are frequently idealistic, which is probably a main reason for the sudden proliferation of bro-podcasts, catch & mold them as soon as possible.

Justin Lee's avatar

Young people may not be taking to the streets, but they're making themselves heard in polling.

"A follow‑up CNN/SSRS poll conducted from March 26 to March 30 found Trump’s approval among 18‑ to 34‑year‑olds had fallen to just 20 percent, while disapproval increased to 80 percent, putting his net approval rating among young adults at minus 60." -Newsweek

willoughby's avatar

Sure, I get it: but what does that disapproval mean? Does it mean they understand the stakes, or does it mean that an age cohort that was trending Trumpward just two years ago has now decided he's no fun after all?

SandyG's avatar

Good question.

Bob's avatar
7hEdited

I definitely saw a positive upswing in the number younger people aged 16-30 at our local No Kings 3. Their signs spanned a number of reasons, including ICE and health care, but also "No Wars" carried by young men. Not wanting to be drafted into a Trump war of choice may be a real motivator to end passivity and take responsibility for saving American democracy.

rlritt's avatar

I remember when I lived in Europe that the young people seemed much more cognizant of politics even before they were old enough vote. You don't see that in the US as much. Sad.

Kate Fall's avatar

I'm curious if you spend any time around young people. I am also discouraged at their alienation from public life, although I understand it. The ones I meet think older White Americans are in a death cult. They don't think they can vote their way out of a death cult. They tend to be accelerationists, although only half of them have heard the word before. They tried to learn history in high school but parents kept interrupting their lessons to complain about wokeness and masking and other personal pet peeves, and they gave up. They are looking for better employment, not finding it, and not enjoying adults telling them they shouldn't have learned to code and isn't it great that AI will make them obsolete, now pay up those student loans. Many are looking to move out of the country. Now, those are the negatives. The positives? If we can convince them we don't actually want them to die to increase our wealth, they will be in favor of democracy. The challenge is convincing them that the majority of the country isn't trying to farm them like cattle.

SandyG's avatar

I'm sure the poor job market for young people is contributing to their disapproval.

R Mercer's avatar

Most Americans, including American youth, are decidiedly non-serious when it comes to politics... and a lot of other things besides politics.

Amy in Jersey's avatar

I will say, optimistically, that I have five teenaged nieces and nephews who are all smart, engaged kids who have plans for the future. They are STEM students, athletes, musicians, and they genuinely care about their families. They give me hope for our future

Kotzsu's avatar
8hEdited

The "Your rules," formulation is interesting, I hadn't seen it before. Of course, if you are always adopting the rules / ethics of the opposition, then the ethics of your enemy are simply also your ethics, no?

I don't think there's much anyone can say with a straight face that Trumpists hold any sort of moral high ground. There are maybe single-issue abortion voters, but Trump is simultaneously not doing anything else on that front for them, and then also violating their moral sensibilities in other ways.

I'd hazard a guess that if you're opposed to abortion, you're presumably also opposed to child prisons, or if we have already built a child prison, you probably think that the child-prisoners should at least be able to keep their crayons: https://www.propublica.org/article/dilley-detention-center-kids-art-removal

Lewis Grotelueschen's avatar

"Could liberal patriotism overcome authoritarian nationalism here as well?"

Isn't liberal patriotism the dominant note in the No Kings rallies? Their was a notable difference between the No Kings rally I attended a few weeks ago in small town Nebraska compared to the one at the same location some months ago. At the previous one, there were a few opponents driving by with Trump flags and American flags. A women walked into our midst and verbally attacked us as if we were outside agitators, even though we were in fact local people. This time there was the occasional middle finger like last time, but the only effort that anyone put into opposition was flying a confederate flag as they drove by. If felt like the American flag had been surrendered to our side.

SandyG's avatar

We reclaimed the flag. In the 60s, the Left saw it as a sign of government lies about Vietnam. Progressives are famous for disparaging the Constitution as written by slave owners, AKA playing the race card.

Kevin Robbins's avatar

At one time, “our rules” included training rightwing terrorists at the School of the Americas.

Overall maybe, we’ve been a force for good but we have supported a lot of SOBs.

I do hope for someone to fulfill Bill’s liberal patriot role, tho.

David Court's avatar

Bill, thanks for the inspiring cheer-leading for Hungary and Magyar. I will be carrying this sign (BOLD, centered, FELON line in red) on Thursday at the US Consulate in Frankfurt:

ORBÁN'S COUNTRY

IS CLEARLY

HUNGARY FOR A

REAL CHANGE

THE U.S.A. STILL HAS

A CHANCE TO

HAMSTRING THE FELON

COME NOVEMBER

TomD's avatar

Is there a regular Thursday event?

David Court's avatar

Only me walking back and forth for ca. 30 minutes, or however long my legs last. And, yes, I try to make it between 8 and 9 every Thursday morning, weather permitting, since my sign is paper on cardboard, not real weather proof.

SandyG's avatar
5hEdited

Props to you, David.

I just signed up to be an election worker!

David Court's avatar

Excellent, and thank you. Clearly, Dad raised you right😉.

Keith Wresch's avatar

If it takes a trade of one bad Democratic politician for a Republican, I am almost good with it since at least we are returning to some sense of decency and personal responsibility.

Ironically Swalwell dropping out narrows the list of Democrats and probably helps the vote coalesce around one the remaining candidates which had been a headache for the party in California.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

If "they" go low, we go lower. If they break down civility and human dignity, we will do what? Go with them? If they do unconscionable, thoughtless things, do we now have license to do worse? If they commit atrocities, do we now become atrocious?

This kind of rationalization is a recipe for diminishing us. We must be better, whether they do better or not? Have we no honor?

J Fricks's avatar

Remember, the Orange one cited his favorite Bible verse (likely the only one he had heard of): I like the “eye for an eye”. That is a manifestation of “your rules.”

Steven Insertname's avatar

To be fair, Trump is totally going to read the Bible, as soon as he finishes Mein Kampf.

Andrew Joyce's avatar

In Trump's world the only response to any challenge is to double down, to "counterpunch twice as hard", especially when he can use other people's money and can rely on a media environment that privileges "clicks" over journalism.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

"Force, Fear & Fuck'em up..."

Their favorite cheer.

Robert Birtch's avatar

It is a moral imperative to disobey a rule when following it does not lead to justice. When we spend all our time hemming and hawing about *how* to go about things instead of on *what* things to go about, it leads to a view of governance that is both highly flawed and highly exploitable: the valuing of means, at the expense of the ends. Democracy is not some machine that only produces justice, regardless of what is used as the input, but Democrats are stuck on the idea that democracy is impartial, and it's gotten them played, every time. It's never once worked that way, and it never will. From the very beginning, who got to own land, who got to vote, and who was and wasn't property; these aren't examples of the Democracy Machine spitting out justice. These were value judgements. These were times when people who were benefitting from these outcomes saw they were benefitting, and assumed the system was behaving rationally.

Avoiding Reprisal's avatar

First rate analysis...superb response. The deepest response is the "how". The dignity of people should be a primary concern. To test ideas against the metric of decency is the preferred option. Or else we get events like Dresden. It's one thing to to feel revenge. It's another to act on it.

V J's avatar

perfect. hemming and hawing

Robert Birtch's avatar

That's what liberals seem to do. We can all agree that "The ends justify the means" is a shit moral philosophy. Most Democrats would agree. But liberals have this tendency to overcorrect to the point where thinking about the "ends" at all is, in an almost reflexive kinda way, innately immoral.

There's this very Enlightenment way thinking about government that implies that, with the right means, the ends will take care of themselves, and immoral behavior becomes functionally impossible. It's called "Values Neutral Governance" and you can see the appeal of it when you sum up all the demands placed on a legislator. Under VNG, you don't need to engage with the needs and desires of your constituents, your donors, or even your opposition, because if everyone is committed to following a just set of rules, everyone will get what they need as a matter of course. This "perfect system" has never existed in history.

Jeff the Original's avatar

I like how you put "they" in quotes. That is the MAGA's favorite enemy to target..."they". It's the most powerful (and convenient) enemy in the world...because they are numberless, faceless and omnipresent. You can blame everything on "them".

V J's avatar

myself, I use it too. bad habit. they

Jeff the Original's avatar

Well...trust me...after closely tracking Fox News for 8 straight years...I can guarantee that you don't do it like THEY do it. (Point is true, but pun intended)

Probably the best way I can describe how/why I know this is because I was watching the MSM and Fox News both on a daily basis and I was completely gobsmacked at how they were portraying the Left with their reporting, dialogue and viewer comments. I was like "No...that's not at all how the Left is handling it!" Case in point would be their claim that Swalwell was going to get the kid glove treatment for these latest accusations. No matter what the Dems do or don't do...the narrative will be that he got off more lightly than any GOP guy doing the same.

It's complete and utter BS...and its very much intentional. I can say that with conviction having watched it for 8 years.

V J's avatar

Pointing out your own pun, delicious. thank you

I don't watch it, but I hear enough to feel like I watch it, close family member

Dave's avatar

It's mobster mentality. That is how Trump operates and he surrounded himself with people who are like-minded

Robert Birtch's avatar

We should be honorable, always. But also, we should not allow those being dishonorable to define for the rest of us what being "honorable" looks like. The rules can't save us from bad ideas. That should have been clear after the first Trump term. The only thing that stops a bad idea is a better idea, and having the spine to implement it.

If you've ever played a fantasy tabletop RPG, then you likely know about character alignments; Neutral Good, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Neutral, ect. A Lawful Good character can never defeat a Lawful Evil villain. Only a Chaotic Good character can do that.

Charles E. Smith's avatar

The "Shining City" ain't so shiny lately . . .