The reflecting pool is our curent best wedge to peel off folks that are still capable of critical thinking. Yes, it is small potatoes in the grand scheme, but it is the perfect metaphor for Trump and the Republican Party. Trump claimed that he alone was the best person for this job - its just a pool afterall and who knows more about pools than him. He explicitly made this out to be a common sense job, failing to take into account that people wayyyyy smarter than him have been maintaining that piece of art - yes art. The design of the reflecting pool was intentional, as most art is. Achieving that intent requires design and process to work in tandem to maintain the message over time. The builders of the pool knew where they were building it, they knew the challenges they would face, and while imperfect, they did their best to build a maintainable monument.
Trump flattened all of that and made people believe it was just another pool, albeit a shallow one. Now, it is a pool that the master developer can't fix. It is just one cluster after another. Now they've moved onto arresting people, which is only going to draw more attention to their failure. Before long folks start wondering how competent he can be if he can't fix a pool, but we expect him to fix Iran? I will take each and every wedge available and use it to the fullest. Epstein. The reflecting pool. Iran. So much failure.
Someone over at the NYT comment section is "blaming" the reflecting pool fiasco on AlgaeFa. Wish I had thought of that one.
As for media accountability: mixing up two bookstores is hardly the end of the world, especially when you've corrected it. But there's no excuse for the type of runaway mendacity that passes for substantive conversation. Talk about "making us great again," there needs to be a restoration of public humiliation around blathering on and on about a topic the speaker knows nothing about. Am I naive enough to believe this is going to happen anytime soon? No, but I can always hope.
If we don't hold reported facts to be facts, where does that leave us?
Joe Rogan would be considered news.
And that's the difference to me, throwing out facts in one place that are not checked dilutes the trust in the other place where they are checked by the same individual.
Or it's kind of starting your own cult, no?
You can qualify what you say so as not to present them as facts, and you should do that.
Otherwise, how does a listener believe any of it as facts?
Or are you going to qualify at the top of the podcast by saying, what I say here may not be a fact?
Or you could take the Andy Rooney approach.
Don't fall into the Joe Rogan trap, they want you to do that, so they can say; look, JVL makes shat up.
That's just me, and my opinion, none of which I can say is a fact.
All reporting, whether written or verbal, should be evidently factual, or evidently not. If you don't know the facts say so. It's OK to say "I heard", or when we have the facts we'll let you know. It is hard to know who to believe anymore, and I don't want to lose you as a trusted purveyor of truth.
The pool was a scandal until groundless arrests took place. Now it’s the State punishing innocent people, or at least whom have not been proven as yet to have vandalized government property as they have been accused, in order to appease Dear Leader’s ego and narrative.
This aint Charlottesville. But even the sandwich guy threw a sandwich, as farcical as the eventually dropped charges against him were. It’s quite possible all these people did was touch the ripping lining.
Thanks for making the distinction between scandals and crimes. After 10 years of Trump, most of us are jaded and believe everything he does is a crime, but that's not being fair. Just because he's not doesn't mean we can't be.
As for misstating a fact on the podcast, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. If no one brings it to your attention, then it wasn't a problem in the first place. It is admirable that you go to the trouble to admit the error and correct it.
I don't often watch soccer, but when I do, it's usually with the sound off. That way, I don't seem stupid when I don't understand the rules. I have a lot of respect for soccer players to play at that level for that long, it makes American football seem kind of weak in a way.
Good job JVL take the rest of the day off with pay
1. Don't forget the murder and destruction on the high seas without any evidence much less a conviction for alleged crimes that don't even carry the death penalty. I'm not sure "depraved" even covers it.
2. You must know the answer to your question, right JVL? Can there be any doubt that the proliferation of podcasts not subject to any journalistic standards has been a major contributor to the cascade of mis and dis information with which we are all bombarded? But of course it's unfair or at least unrealistic to expect 60 Minutes-like rigor from podcasts. So what's the solution? Fewer fucking podcasts. Very few will be missed and we'll all be microscopically better off.
I just posted a note saying that Trump is possibly the guiltiest person in history. Not as in the feeling, but breaking laws, ethics, and morals. Then I saw this from JVL.
On the factual accuracy of PodCasts....I think doing extemporaneous shows must be hard. It occurs to me there are ways around the problem of possibly getting stated facts wrong, but you have to do it with intention. For instance, why even say something like 4 mos ago when you don't actually have the real number at hand. Say simply "months ago". You could also say something like " wasn't like just a few months ago that...?" Framing it as a question in the conversation indicates you are unsure of the actual fact. I find that folks who quote "facts" in casual conversation, frequently are using them as a means of adding weight to their opinion. To be fair, the Bulwark hosts cover a lot of news. I can't imagine what your lives must be like. You must have a show agenda that goes out prior to the PodCast. How hard is it to revisit the "facts" behind the subjects you are expecting to cover? Anyway, if you are concerned about getting the facts correct, then just don't use stats in the conversation.
Hey JVL. Just wanted to thank you for turning me on to Behind the Bastards. From Curtis Yarvin and Peter Thiel to how the Nazis started the current flat earthers and TE Lawrence, it's a fascinating ride. (I was going to say enjoyable, but it's usually pretty horrifying.)
In response to your question. Yes, I think the same standard of truthfulness should hold for more informal, conversational podcasts. How might it work (since obviously well meaning and honest people like you still make factual mistake)? Every podcast should be required to have an episode or part of an episode on a regular basis that addresses factual errors and attributes non-factual contentions to the wastebasket of “this was an unverifiable opinion. When facts are in it may or may not be correct”. The damage being done to both young and old minds and brains through the dissemination of lies and opinions masquerading as “facts” is incalculable and deep. It’s poisoning our society. It’s worth doing EVERYTHING we can to address this.
Except in the case of deliberate disinformation, I am ok with conversational podcasts having the occasional factual error. Memory isn’t infallible, and if one later discovers they said something inaccurate, or messed up a quote or whatever, and then they correct the record, all fine with me. One of the things I love about many of The Bulwark podcasts is that they ARE NOT scripted; therefore they are relatable, and like listening in on an intelligent conversation in which you know the participants are honest brokers and having a real, human discussion of the issues. I’d never want to lose that just because sometimes people say something that’s inaccurate. Besides that, JVL, your command of the facts in extemporaneous discussions is astonishing - I don’t know how you keep all this stuff in your head and at the ready. We Bulwark subscribers are here because we TRUST y’all. This is a sanctuary from lies and disinformation and scandal and sin and all manner of ugliness that seems to surround us all the time now. We KNOW you all always do your best, and speak and write words with care and conscience - scripted or not. Thank you for CARING when so many don’t seem to anymore.
I know nothing about categories of sin. I do see this pool thing as an extra sweet and broad symbol of what we've got going on here, on full display and in full color. With a character or two straight out of central casting. Just like a good novel or movie - telling and showing! What could be better than such a shimmering symbol to demonstrate or embody the sheer madness of the moment? Apart from the extreme legal headaches of the hapless and innocent scapegoats (and a dead duck I think), it's 100% laughable and I'm enjoying every episode. Better than most stuff on Netflix - more original screenplay.
There is a difference between making a factual mistake and correcting it on the record and bat shit crazy conspiracy theories touted as truth. One is a human error and easily fixed. No harm done. The other is not. Mildly off topic, I’d like to see new laws when this is over about any government employees (local, state, federal) lying to the public, even when not under oath. There should be criminal penalties that escalate depending on the severity of the lie. Lies of omission are one thing, but flat out lying “the election was stolen” should be punishable.
On a completely off-topic note, I liked Sarah’s post today, but the comments were locked. As much as I enjoy listening to Sarah as herself, I can’t listen to the people she polls on the focus group. The post that recaps what was said is a much better fit for me and, I’m assuming, others. Could you pass this along, please. Thx!
The reflecting pool is our curent best wedge to peel off folks that are still capable of critical thinking. Yes, it is small potatoes in the grand scheme, but it is the perfect metaphor for Trump and the Republican Party. Trump claimed that he alone was the best person for this job - its just a pool afterall and who knows more about pools than him. He explicitly made this out to be a common sense job, failing to take into account that people wayyyyy smarter than him have been maintaining that piece of art - yes art. The design of the reflecting pool was intentional, as most art is. Achieving that intent requires design and process to work in tandem to maintain the message over time. The builders of the pool knew where they were building it, they knew the challenges they would face, and while imperfect, they did their best to build a maintainable monument.
Trump flattened all of that and made people believe it was just another pool, albeit a shallow one. Now, it is a pool that the master developer can't fix. It is just one cluster after another. Now they've moved onto arresting people, which is only going to draw more attention to their failure. Before long folks start wondering how competent he can be if he can't fix a pool, but we expect him to fix Iran? I will take each and every wedge available and use it to the fullest. Epstein. The reflecting pool. Iran. So much failure.
Appreciate you
Someone over at the NYT comment section is "blaming" the reflecting pool fiasco on AlgaeFa. Wish I had thought of that one.
As for media accountability: mixing up two bookstores is hardly the end of the world, especially when you've corrected it. But there's no excuse for the type of runaway mendacity that passes for substantive conversation. Talk about "making us great again," there needs to be a restoration of public humiliation around blathering on and on about a topic the speaker knows nothing about. Am I naive enough to believe this is going to happen anytime soon? No, but I can always hope.
If we don't hold reported facts to be facts, where does that leave us?
Joe Rogan would be considered news.
And that's the difference to me, throwing out facts in one place that are not checked dilutes the trust in the other place where they are checked by the same individual.
Or it's kind of starting your own cult, no?
You can qualify what you say so as not to present them as facts, and you should do that.
Otherwise, how does a listener believe any of it as facts?
Or are you going to qualify at the top of the podcast by saying, what I say here may not be a fact?
Or you could take the Andy Rooney approach.
Don't fall into the Joe Rogan trap, they want you to do that, so they can say; look, JVL makes shat up.
That's just me, and my opinion, none of which I can say is a fact.
All reporting, whether written or verbal, should be evidently factual, or evidently not. If you don't know the facts say so. It's OK to say "I heard", or when we have the facts we'll let you know. It is hard to know who to believe anymore, and I don't want to lose you as a trusted purveyor of truth.
The pool was a scandal until groundless arrests took place. Now it’s the State punishing innocent people, or at least whom have not been proven as yet to have vandalized government property as they have been accused, in order to appease Dear Leader’s ego and narrative.
This aint Charlottesville. But even the sandwich guy threw a sandwich, as farcical as the eventually dropped charges against him were. It’s quite possible all these people did was touch the ripping lining.
Love your writing. Thank you for making us all smarter💕
Thanks for making the distinction between scandals and crimes. After 10 years of Trump, most of us are jaded and believe everything he does is a crime, but that's not being fair. Just because he's not doesn't mean we can't be.
As for misstating a fact on the podcast, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. If no one brings it to your attention, then it wasn't a problem in the first place. It is admirable that you go to the trouble to admit the error and correct it.
I don't often watch soccer, but when I do, it's usually with the sound off. That way, I don't seem stupid when I don't understand the rules. I have a lot of respect for soccer players to play at that level for that long, it makes American football seem kind of weak in a way.
Good job JVL take the rest of the day off with pay
1. Don't forget the murder and destruction on the high seas without any evidence much less a conviction for alleged crimes that don't even carry the death penalty. I'm not sure "depraved" even covers it.
2. You must know the answer to your question, right JVL? Can there be any doubt that the proliferation of podcasts not subject to any journalistic standards has been a major contributor to the cascade of mis and dis information with which we are all bombarded? But of course it's unfair or at least unrealistic to expect 60 Minutes-like rigor from podcasts. So what's the solution? Fewer fucking podcasts. Very few will be missed and we'll all be microscopically better off.
I just posted a note saying that Trump is possibly the guiltiest person in history. Not as in the feeling, but breaking laws, ethics, and morals. Then I saw this from JVL.
On the factual accuracy of PodCasts....I think doing extemporaneous shows must be hard. It occurs to me there are ways around the problem of possibly getting stated facts wrong, but you have to do it with intention. For instance, why even say something like 4 mos ago when you don't actually have the real number at hand. Say simply "months ago". You could also say something like " wasn't like just a few months ago that...?" Framing it as a question in the conversation indicates you are unsure of the actual fact. I find that folks who quote "facts" in casual conversation, frequently are using them as a means of adding weight to their opinion. To be fair, the Bulwark hosts cover a lot of news. I can't imagine what your lives must be like. You must have a show agenda that goes out prior to the PodCast. How hard is it to revisit the "facts" behind the subjects you are expecting to cover? Anyway, if you are concerned about getting the facts correct, then just don't use stats in the conversation.
Hey JVL. Just wanted to thank you for turning me on to Behind the Bastards. From Curtis Yarvin and Peter Thiel to how the Nazis started the current flat earthers and TE Lawrence, it's a fascinating ride. (I was going to say enjoyable, but it's usually pretty horrifying.)
In response to your question. Yes, I think the same standard of truthfulness should hold for more informal, conversational podcasts. How might it work (since obviously well meaning and honest people like you still make factual mistake)? Every podcast should be required to have an episode or part of an episode on a regular basis that addresses factual errors and attributes non-factual contentions to the wastebasket of “this was an unverifiable opinion. When facts are in it may or may not be correct”. The damage being done to both young and old minds and brains through the dissemination of lies and opinions masquerading as “facts” is incalculable and deep. It’s poisoning our society. It’s worth doing EVERYTHING we can to address this.
Except in the case of deliberate disinformation, I am ok with conversational podcasts having the occasional factual error. Memory isn’t infallible, and if one later discovers they said something inaccurate, or messed up a quote or whatever, and then they correct the record, all fine with me. One of the things I love about many of The Bulwark podcasts is that they ARE NOT scripted; therefore they are relatable, and like listening in on an intelligent conversation in which you know the participants are honest brokers and having a real, human discussion of the issues. I’d never want to lose that just because sometimes people say something that’s inaccurate. Besides that, JVL, your command of the facts in extemporaneous discussions is astonishing - I don’t know how you keep all this stuff in your head and at the ready. We Bulwark subscribers are here because we TRUST y’all. This is a sanctuary from lies and disinformation and scandal and sin and all manner of ugliness that seems to surround us all the time now. We KNOW you all always do your best, and speak and write words with care and conscience - scripted or not. Thank you for CARING when so many don’t seem to anymore.
I know nothing about categories of sin. I do see this pool thing as an extra sweet and broad symbol of what we've got going on here, on full display and in full color. With a character or two straight out of central casting. Just like a good novel or movie - telling and showing! What could be better than such a shimmering symbol to demonstrate or embody the sheer madness of the moment? Apart from the extreme legal headaches of the hapless and innocent scapegoats (and a dead duck I think), it's 100% laughable and I'm enjoying every episode. Better than most stuff on Netflix - more original screenplay.
There is a difference between making a factual mistake and correcting it on the record and bat shit crazy conspiracy theories touted as truth. One is a human error and easily fixed. No harm done. The other is not. Mildly off topic, I’d like to see new laws when this is over about any government employees (local, state, federal) lying to the public, even when not under oath. There should be criminal penalties that escalate depending on the severity of the lie. Lies of omission are one thing, but flat out lying “the election was stolen” should be punishable.
On a completely off-topic note, I liked Sarah’s post today, but the comments were locked. As much as I enjoy listening to Sarah as herself, I can’t listen to the people she polls on the focus group. The post that recaps what was said is a much better fit for me and, I’m assuming, others. Could you pass this along, please. Thx!